[MR. MARTINEZ]20LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Mr21NPMr .22SENT. Chief23NPChief Justice24NPJustice ,25,, and26CCand may27MDmay it28PPit please29VVplease the30DTthe Court31NPCourt :32:: Section33NPSection 633a34NP633a states35VVZstate that36IN/thatthat all37DTall federal38JJfederal personnel39JJpersonnel actions40NNSaction shall41MDshall be42VBbe made43VVNmake free44RBfree from45INfrom any46DTany discrimination47NNdiscrimination based48VVNbase on49INon age50NNage .51SENT. Both52DTboth parties53NNSparty agree54VVPagree that55IN/thatthat that56DTthat language57NNlanguage tracks58VVZtrack the59DTthe text60NNtext and61CCand meaning62NNmeaning of63INof Title64NPTitle VII65NPVII 's66POS's identical67JJidentical federal68JJfederal sector69NNsector provision70NNprovision covering71VVGcover race72NNrace ,73,, sex74NNsex ,75,, and76CCand religion77NNreligion .78SENT. Together79RBtogether the80DTthe two81CDtwo provisions82NNSprovision bar83INbar discrimination84NNdiscrimination not85RBnot only86RBonly in87INin the88DTthe ultimate89JJultimate outcome90NNoutcome of91INof a92DTa personnel93JJpersonnel decision94NNdecision but95CCbut also96RBalso in97INin the98DTthe process99NNprocess of100INof making101VVGmake that102DTthat decision103NNdecision .104SENT. That105DTthat 's106VBZbe true107JJtrue regardless108RBregardless of109INof whether110INwhether the111DTthe prohibited112VVNprohibit characteristic113NNcharacteristic at114INat issue115NNissue is116VBZbe a117DTa but-for118NNbut-for cause119NNcause of120INof the121DTthe final122JJfinal decision123NNdecision .124SENT. That125DTthat 's126VBZbe the127DTthe rule128NNrule that129IN/thatthat the130DTthe MSPB131NPMSPB and132CCand the133DTthe EEOC134NPEEOC have135VHPhave applied136VVNapply in137INin countless138JJcountless cases139NNScase for140INfor many141JJmany years142NNSyear ,143,, but144CCbut more145RBRmore importantly146RBimportantly it147PPit flows148VVZflow directly149RBdirectly from150INfrom the151DTthe statutory152JJstatutory text153NNtext .154SENT. The155DTthe phrase156NNphrase "157``" free158JJfree from159INfrom any160DTany discrimination161NNdiscrimination "162``" governs163VVZgovern how164WRBhow the165DTthe decision166NNdecision shall167MDshall be168VBbe made169VVNmake .170SENT. In171INin other172JJother words173NNSword ,174,, the175DTthe process176NNprocess for177INfor making178VVGmake that179DTthat decision180NNdecision .181SENT. If182INif that183DTthat process184NNprocess uses185VVZuse age186NNage or187CCor race188NNrace as189INas a190DTa negative191JJnegative factor192NNfactor ,193,, it194PPit 's195VBZbe not196RBnot made197VVNmake free198JJfree from199INfrom any200DTany discrimination201NNdiscrimination .202SENT. Congress203NPCongress chose204VVDchoose those205DTthose words206NNSword carefully207RBcarefully rejecting208VVGreject the209DTthe private210JJprivate sector211NNsector language212NNlanguage later213RBRlater addressed214VVDaddress in215INin Gross216NPGross and217CCand Nassar218NPNassar .219SENT. It220PPit did221VVDdo so222RBso in223INin the224DTthe unique225JJunique federal226JJfederal sector227NNsector context228NNcontext to229TOto create230VVcreate a231DTa remedy232NNremedy for233INfor violating234VVGviolate constitutional235JJconstitutional equal236JJequal protection237NNprotection rights238NNSright .239SENT. This240DTthis Court241NPCourt has242VHZhave said243VVNsay that244IN/thatthat when245WRBwhen a246DTa plaintiff247NNplaintiff is248VBZbe subjected249VVNsubject to250TOto discrimination251NNdiscrimination in252INin the253DTthe process254NNprocess of255INof being256VBGbe considered257VVNconsider for258INfor a259DTa government260NNgovernment benefit261NNbenefit ,262,, he263PPhe necessarily264RBnecessarily suffers265VVZsuffer a266DTa redressable267JJredressable equal268JJequal protection269NNprotection injury270NNinjury even271RBeven if272INif he273PPhe can274MDcan 't275RB't prove276VVprove he277PPhe otherwise278RBotherwise would279MDwould have280VHhave received281VVNreceive a282DTa benefit283NNbenefit .284SENT. That285DTthat same286JJsame injury287NNinjury rule288NNrule governs289VVZgovern 633a290NP633a and291CCand Title292NPTitle VII293NPVII .294SENT. That295DTthat rule296NNrule is297VBZbe fully298RBfully consistent299JJconsistent with300INwith common301JJcommon law302NNlaw principles303NNSprinciple and304CCand this305DTthis Court306NPCourt 's307POS's but-for308NNbut-for causation309NNcausation analysis310NNanalysis in311INin other312JJother cases313NNScase .314SENT. The315DTthe government316NNgovernment ,317,, in318INin this319DTthis case320NNcase ,321,, apparently322RBapparently believes323VVZbelieve it324PPit 's325VBZbe perfectly326RBperfectly lawful327JJlawful for328INfor federal329JJfederal agencies330NNSagency to331TOto apply332VVapply younger-is-better333NNyounger-is-better or334CCor whiter-is-better335NNwhiter-is-better hiring336VVGhire policies337NNSpolicy to338TOto individuals339NNSindividual who340WPwho can341MDcan 't342RB't prove343VVprove that344IN/thatthat they345PPthey would346MDwould have347VHhave been348VBNbe hired349VVNhire but350CCbut for351INfor those352DTthose policies353NNSpolicy .354SENT. That355DTthat 's356VBZbe anti-textual357JJanti-textual and358CCand it359PPit 's360VBZbe wrong361JJwrong .362SENT. Decisions363NNSdecision applying364VVGapply such365JJsuch blatantly366RBblatantly discriminatory367JJdiscriminatory policies368NNSpolicy are369VBPbe obviously370RBobviously not371RBnot made372VVNmake free373JJfree from374INfrom any375DTany discrimination376NNdiscrimination .377SENT. The378DTthe government379NNgovernment 's380POS's theory381NNtheory contradicts382VVZcontradict the383DTthe plain384JJplain statutory385JJstatutory language386NNlanguage .387SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]388LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] But389CCbut you390PPyou say391VVPsay that392IN/thatthat the393DTthe but-for394NNbut-for causation395NNcausation is396VBZbe not397RBnot required398VVNrequire for399INfor liability400NNliability ,401,, but402CCbut then403RBthen at404INat the405DTthe relief406NNrelief stage407NNstage ,408,, as409INas I410PPI understand411VVPunderstand your412PP$your briefs413NNSbrief ,414,, you415PPyou say416VVPsay that417IN/thatthat but-for418NNbut-for causation419NNcausation is420VBZbe required421VVNrequire for422INfor reinstatement423NNreinstatement or424CCor back425RBback pay426VVpay .427SENT. And428CCand where429WRBwhere is430VBZbe that431IN/thatthat in432INin the433DTthe statutory434JJstatutory text435NNtext ?436SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]437LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] So438INso we439PPwe would440MDwould say441VVsay that442DTthat ...443:... that444IN/thatthat at445INat the446DTthe ...447:... at448INat the449DTthe remedial450JJremedial stage451NNstage ,452,, ordinary453JJordinary remedial454JJremedial principles455NNSprinciple would456MDwould apply457VVapply ,458,, and459CCand those460DTthose principles461NNSprinciple would462MDwould require463VVrequire that464IN/thatthat the465DTthe victim466NNvictim ,467,, the468DTthe ...469:... the470DTthe plaintiff471NNplaintiff ,472,, be473VBbe made474VVNmake whole475RPwhole for476INfor the477DTthe violation478NNviolation .479SENT. And480CCand under481INunder those482DTthose ordinary483JJordinary principles484NNSprinciple that485IN/thatthat I486PPI think487VVPthink are488VBPbe undisputed489JJundisputed on490INon both491DTboth sides492NNSside ,493,, if494INif the495DTthe evidence496NNevidence shows497VVZshow that498IN/thatthat the499DTthe ...500:... the501DTthe person502NNperson ,503,, the504DTthe plaintiff505NNplaintiff ,506,, could507MDcould n't508RBn't ...509:... would510MDwould n't511RBn't have512VHhave gotten513VVNget hired514VVNhire anyway515RBanyway ,516,, they517PPthey should518MDshould n't519RBn't get520VVget remedies521NNSremedy that522WDTthat are523VBPbe specifically524RBspecifically and525CCand logically526RBlogically tied527VVNtie to528TOto that529DTthat ...530:... that531DTthat thing532NNthing that533IN/thatthat they534PPthey ...535:... they536PPthey were537VBDbe n't538RBn't ...539:... would540MDwould n't541RBn't have542VHhave been543VBNbe entitled544VVNentitle to545TOto the546DTthe in547INin first548JJfirst place549NNplace .550SENT. But551CCbut that552DTthat does553VVZdo n't554RBn't mean555VVmean that556IN/thatthat they557PPthey should558MDshould n't559RBn't get560VVget the561DTthe kinds562NNSkind of563INof prospective564JJprospective relief565NNrelief that566WDTthat are567VBPbe available568JJavailable in569INin a570DTa wide571JJwide array572NNarray of573INof other574JJother cases575NNScase .576SENT. For577INfor example578NNexample ...579:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]580LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] And581CCand why582NNwhy ...583:... why584WRBwhy would585MDwould we586PPwe go587VVgo all588PDTall the589DTthe way590NNway up591INup the592DTthe hill593NNhill and594CCand then595RBthen come596VVcome all597PDTall the598DTthe way599NNway back600RBback down601RBdown at602INat the603DTthe relief604NNrelief stage605NNstage and606CCand just607RBjust say608VVsay ,609,, oh610UHoh ,611,, well612UHwell ,613,, you614PPyou really615RBreally do616VVPdo need617NNneed but-for618NNbut-for causation619NNcausation because620INbecause ,621,, as622INas you623PPyou rightly624RBrightly say625VVPsay ,626,, if627INif you628PPyou have629VHPhave n't630RBn't suffered631VVNsuffer a632DTa ...633:... an634DTan action635NNaction because636INbecause of637INof age638NNage ,639,, you640PPyou 're641VBPbe not642RBnot entitled643VVNentitle to644TOto reinstatement645NNreinstatement ...646:... [MR. MARTINEZ]647LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] You648PPyou ...649:... Your650PP$your Honor651NPHonor ,652,, with653INwith respect654NNrespect ,655,, you656PPyou would657MDwould n't658RBn't be659VBbe coming660VVGcome all661PDTall the662DTthe way663NNway down664INdown the665DTthe hill666NNhill because667INbecause there668EXthere would669MDwould be670VBbe a671DTa wide672JJwide range673NNrange of674INof other675JJother types676NNStype of677INof remedies678NNSremedy that679WDTthat would680MDwould be681VBbe available682JJavailable other683JJother than684INthan reinstatement685NNreinstatement and686CCand back687RBback pay688VVpay .689SENT. For690INfor example691NNexample ,692,, you693PPyou might694MDmight be695VBbe entitled696VVNentitle to697TOto ...698:... to699TOto an700DTan injunction701NNinjunction telling702VVGtell the703DTthe government704NNgovernment to705TOto stop706VVstop discriminating707VVGdiscriminate .708SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]709LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] This710DTthis case711NNcase ...712:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]713LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] What714WPWhat would715MDwould you716PPyou ...717:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]718LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] This719DTthis ...720:... this721DTthis case722NNcase ,723,, because724INbecause there725EXthere is726VBZbe ...727:... at728INat least729JJSleast one730CDone of731INof her732PP$her allegations733NNSallegation is734VBZbe that735IN/thatthat she736PPshe was737VBDbe passed738VVNpass over739RPover and740CCand younger741JJRyoung people742NNSpeople were743VBDbe selected744VVNselect for745INfor the746DTthe coagulation747NNcoagulation unit748NNunit .749SENT. Now750RBnow ,751,, suppose752VVPsuppose that753WDTthat 's754VBZbe true755JJtrue ,756,, younger757JJRyoung women758NNSwoman were759VBDbe selected760VVNselect ,761,, but762CCbut they763PPthey were764VBDbe better765RBRwell qualified766VVNqualify ;767:; they768PPthey had769VHDhave experience770NNexperience and771CCand training772NNtraining that773IN/thatthat she774PPshe lacked775VVDlack .776SENT. So777RBso what778WPwhat would779MDwould be780VBbe the781DTthe remedy782NNremedy ?783SENT? You784PPyou ...785:... you786PPyou would787MDwould say788VVsay there789EXthere is790VBZbe a791DTa violation792NNviolation because793INbecause age794NNage was795VBDbe taken796VVNtake into797INinto account798NNaccount .799SENT. What800WPWhat ...801:... what802WPwhat relief803NNrelief ...804:... you805PPyou said806VVDsay it807PPit would808MDwould n't809RBn't be810VBbe going811VVGgo all812PDTall the813DTthe way814NNway back815RBback down816RBdown the817DTthe hill818NNhill in819INin answer820NNanswer to821TOto ...822:... [MR. MARTINEZ]823LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Sure824NPSure .825SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]826LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] ...827:... Justice828NPJustice Kavanaugh829NPKavanaugh .830SENT. What831WPWhat would832MDwould the833DTthe relief834NNrelief be835VBbe ?836SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]837LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] So838RBso ,839,, first840JJfirst of841INof all842DTall ,843,, assuming844VVGassume that845IN/thatthat the846DTthe government847NNgovernment could848MDcould show849VVshow that850DTthat ...851:... that852IN/thatthat she853PPshe would854MDwould n't855RBn't have856VHhave gotten857VVNget the858DTthe job859NNjob ...860:... we861PPwe 'll862MDwill just863RBjust take864VVtake that865IN/thatthat as866INas a867DTa given868VVNgive I869PPI think870VVPthink implicit871JJimplicit in872INin the873DTthe question874NNquestion ...875:... then876RBthen she877PPshe would878MDwould n't879RBn't be880VBbe entitled881VVNentitle to882TOto reinstatement883NNreinstatement or884CCor back885RBback pay886VVpay ,887,, but888CCbut she889PPshe would890MDwould be891VBbe entitled892VVNentitle to893TOto remedies894NNSremedy like895INlike EEO896NPEEO training897VVGtrain so898RBso that899IN/thatthat this900DTthis kind901NNkind of902INof discrimination903NNdiscrimination would904MDwould n't905RBn't happen906VVhappen to907TOto her908PP$her next909JJnext time910NNtime she911PPshe applies912VVZapply for913INfor a914DTa promotion915NNpromotion or916CCor next917JJnext time918NNtime she919PPshe seeks920VVZseek an921DTan opportunity922NNopportunity .923SENT. That924DTthat kind925NNkind of926INof training927NNtraining is928VBZbe ...929:... is930VBZbe a931DTa classic932JJclassic remedial933JJremedial relief934NNrelief that935WDTthat 's936VBZbe available937JJavailable in938INin these939DTthese types940NNStype of941INof cases942NNScase .943SENT. In944INin some945DTsome ...946:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]947LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Do948VVPdo ...949:... who950WPwho would951MDwould get952VVget the953DTthe training954NNtraining ?955SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]956LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] The957DTthe training958VVGtrain we959PPwe be960VBbe the961DTthe ...962:... the963DTthe supervisors964NNSsupervisor and965CCand perhaps966RBperhaps the967DTthe ...968:... the969DTthe ...970:... you971PPyou know972VVPknow ,973,, the974DTthe ...975:... the976DTthe others977NNSother within978INwithin the979DTthe Bay980NPBay Pines981NPPines Medical982NPMedical Center983NPCenter who984WPwho had985VHDhave contributed986VVNcontribute to987TOto the988DTthe discriminatory989JJdiscriminatory treatment990NNtreatment in991INin the992DTthe first993JJfirst place994NNplace .995SENT. I996PPI think997VVPthink if998INif the999DTthe ...1000:... if1001INif a1002DTa court1003NNcourt ...1004:... you1005PPyou know1006VVPknow ,1007,, we1008PPwe 're1009VBPbe here1010RBhere at1011INat summary1012NNsummary judgment1013NNjudgment ,1014,, but1015CCbut if1016INif the1017DTthe court1018NNcourt ...1019:... if1020INif the1021DTthe proof1022NNproof at1023INat trial1024NNtrial showed1025VVDshow that1026IN/thatthat there1027EXthere was1028VBDbe some1029DTsome sort1030NNsort of1031INof more1032RBRmore generalized1033VVNgeneralize policy1034NNpolicy of1035INof discriminating1036VVGdiscriminate against1037INagainst people1038NNSpeople because1039INbecause they1040PPthey were1041VBDbe older1042JJRold ,1043,, the1044DTthe court1045NNcourt could1046MDcould also1047RBalso issue1048VVissue some1049DTsome prospective1050JJprospective relief1051NNrelief that1052WDTthat would1053MDwould say1054VVsay that1055IN/thatthat those1056DTthose policies1057NNSpolicy are1058VBPbe unlawful1059JJunlawful .1060SENT. In1061INin a1062DTa lot1063NNlot of1064INof these1065DTthese cases1066NNScase ,1067,, what1068WPwhat a1069DTa court1070NNcourt does1071VVZdo is1072VBZbe ...1073:... is1074VBZbe requires1075VVZrequire the1076DTthe entity1077NNentity to1078TOto post1079VVpost a1080DTa notice1081NNnotice saying1082VVGsay here1083RBhere 's1084VBZbe the1085DTthe finding1086NNfinding of1087INof discrimination1088NNdiscrimination against1089INagainst us1090PPus ,1091,, so1092INso that1093WDTthat people1094NNSpeople can1095MDcan read1096VVread that1097DTthat notice1098NNnotice ,1099,, understand1100VVunderstand what1101WPwhat went1102VVDgo wrong1103JJwrong last1104JJlast time1105NNtime ,1106,, and1107CCand not1108RBnot do1109VVPdo it1110PPit again1111RBagain in1112INin the1113DTthe future1114NNfuture .1115SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1116LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Would1117MDwould ...1118:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1119LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Would1120MDwould that1121RBthat remedy1122VVremedy ...1123:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1124LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...1125:... that1126WDTthat require1127VVPrequire ...1128:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1129LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Oh1130UHoh ,1131,, I1132PPI 'm1133VBPbe sorry1134JJsorry .1135SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1136LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So1137INso no1138DTno particular1139JJparticular relief1140NNrelief directly1141RBdirectly benefiting1142VVGbenefit her1143PPher ?1144SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]1145LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] No1146NPNo ,1147,, Your1148PP$your Honor1149NPHonor .1150SENT. That's1151NPThat's ...1152:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1153LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Or1154CCor atmospheric1155JJatmospheric relief1156NNrelief ,1157,, institutional1158JJinstitutional relief1159NNrelief ,1160,, but1161CCbut she1162PPshe herself1163PPherself gets1164VVZget nothing1165NNnothing tangible1166JJtangible ?1167SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]1168LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I1169PPI think1170VVPthink those1171DTthose things1172NNSthing would1173MDwould be1174VBbe very1175RBvery tangible1176JJtangible for1177INfor her1178PPher ,1179,, Your1180PP$your Honor1181NPHonor ,1182,, because1183INbecause she1184PPshe 's1185VBZbe still1186RBstill an1187DTan employee1188NNemployee there1189RBthere ,1190,, she1191PPshe 's1192VBZbe still1193RBstill operating1194VVGoperate day1195NNday to1196TOto day1197NNday in1198INin that1199DTthat environment1200NNenvironment ,1201,, and1202CCand she1203PPshe still1204RBstill wants1205VVZwant to1206TOto take1207VVtake advantage1208NNadvantage of1209INof future1210JJfuture opportunities1211NNSopportunity for1212INfor training1213NNtraining .1214SENT. And1215CCand so1216RBso if1217INif ...1218:... if1219INif the1220DTthe ...1221:... if1222INif she1223PPshe gets1224VVZget these1225DTthese kinds1226NNSkind of1227INof corrective1228JJcorrective remedies1229NNSremedy ,1230,, it1231PPit 's1232VBZbe going1233VVGgo to1234TOto make1235VVmake it1236PPit better1237JJRgood for1238INfor her1239PPher and1240CCand easier1241JJReasy for1242INfor her1243PP$her next1244JJnext time1245NNtime when1246WRBwhen she1247PPshe wants1248VVZwant to1249TOto apply1250VVapply for1251INfor the1252DTthe opportunity1253NNopportunity ,1254,, to1255TOto be1256VBbe treated1257VVNtreat fairly1258RBfairly without1259INwithout regard1260NNregard to1261TOto age1262NNage .1263SENT. And1264CCand this1265DTthis is1266VBZbe the1267DTthe kind1268NNkind of1269INof forward-looking1270JJforward-looking relief1271NNrelief that1272IN/thatthat this1273DTthis Court1274NPCourt has1275VHZhave often1276RBoften recognized1277VVNrecognize is1278VBZbe appropriate1279JJappropriate ,1280,, even1281RBeven without1282INwithout but-for1283NNbut-for causation1284NNcausation ,1285,, for1286INfor example1287NNexample ,1288,, in1289INin the1290DTthe constitutional1291JJconstitutional cases1292NNScase that1293IN/thatthat we1294PPwe 've1295VHPhave talked1296VVNtalk about1297RBabout .1298SENT. So1299RBso in1300INin cases1301NNScase ...1302:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1303LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Would1304MDwould ...1305:... would1306MDwould the1307DTthe remedy1308NNremedy be1309VBbe any1310DTany different1311JJdifferent than1312INthan might1313MDmight be1314VBbe obtained1315VVNobtain under1316INunder the1317DTthe civil1318JJcivil service1319NNservice laws1320NNSlaw ?1321SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]1322LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Well1323UHWell ,1324,, under1325INunder the1326DTthe civil1327JJcivil service1328NNservice laws1329NNSlaw ,1330,, Your1331PP$your Honor1332NPHonor ,1333,, the1334DTthe ...1335:... the1336DTthe way1337NNway the1338DTthe civil1339JJcivil service1340NNservice laws1341NNSlaw work1342NNwork is1343VBZbe Section1344NPSection 23021345CD@card@ of1346INof the1347DTthe CSRA1348NPCSRA says1349VVZsay that1350IN/thatthat the1351DTthe way1352NNway you1353PPyou bring1354VVPbring a1355DTa discrimination1356NNdiscrimination claim1357NNclaim is1358VBZbe to1359TOto sue1360VVsue under1361INunder this1362DTthis statute1363NNstatute that1364IN/thatthat we1365PPwe 're1366VBPbe currently1367RBcurrently talking1368VVGtalk about1369RBabout .1370SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1371LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] There1372EXthere are1373VBPbe ...1374:... there1375EXthere are1376VBPbe other1377JJother remedies1378NNSremedy available1379JJavailable though1380INthough ,1381,, right1382RBright ?1383SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]1384LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I1385PPI ...1386:... I1387PPI ...1388:... I1389PPI guess1390VVPguess I1391PPI 'd1392MDwould have1393VHhave to1394TOto focus1395VVfocus specifically1396RBspecifically ...1397:... I1398PPI 'm1399VBPbe not1400RBnot sure1401RBsure specifically1402RBspecifically what1403WPwhat you1404PPyou 'd1405MDwould be1406VBbe asking1407VVGask for1408INfor ,1409,, but1410CCbut the1411DTthe way1412NNway I1413PPI read1414VVPread the1415DTthe civil1416JJcivil service1417NNservice laws1418NNSlaw is1419VBZbe that1420DTthat ...1421:... that1422IN/thatthat these1423DTthese types1424NNStype of1425INof claims1426NNSclaim need1427VVPneed to1428TOto be1429VBbe brought1430VVNbring under1431INunder this1432DTthis particular1433JJparticular statute1434NNstatute .1435SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1436LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Mr1437NPMr .1438SENT. Martinez1439NPMartinez ...1440:... [MR. MARTINEZ]1441LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Now1442RBnow ...1443:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1444LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...1445:... we1446PPwe 're1447VBPbe assuming1448VVGassume the1449DTthe worst1450JJSbad for1451INfor your1452PP$your client1453NNclient ,1454,, that1455IN/thatthat the1456DTthe government1457NNgovernment is1458VBZbe right1459JJright that1460IN/thatthat she1461PPshe would1462MDwould not1463RBnot have1464VHhave been1465VBNbe hired1466VVNhire but-for1467NNbut-for .1468SENT. But1469CCbut as1470INas I1471PPI understand1472VVPunderstand the1473DTthe equal1474JJequal protection1475NNprotection claim1476NNclaim ,1477,, it1478PPit 's1479VBZbe that1480IN/thatthat the1481DTthe process1482NNprocess would1483MDwould be1484VBbe free1485JJfree from1486INfrom discrimination1487NNdiscrimination .1488SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]1489LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right1490NPRight .1491SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1492LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So1493RBso that1494IN/thatthat even1495RBeven if1496INif she1497PPshe can1498MDcan 't1499RB't prove1500VVprove she1501PPshe would1502MDwould have1503VHhave gotten1504VVNget the1505DTthe job1506NNjob ,1507,, she1508PPshe still1509RBstill has1510VHZhave an1511DTan opportunity1512NNopportunity to1513TOto prove1514VVprove ,1515,, qua1516INqua a1517DTa remedy1518NNremedy ,1519,, that1520DTthat age1521NNage was1522VBDbe considered1523VVNconsider and1524CCand considered1525VVNconsider inappropriately1526RBinappropriately .1527SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]1528LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Correct1529JJcorrect .1530SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1531LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So1532RBso ,1533,, for1534INfor example1535NNexample ...1536:... give1537VVgive me1538PPme an1539DTan example1540NNexample of1541INof a1542DTa defense1543NNdefense to1544TOto one1545CDone of1546INof the1547DTthe government1548NNgovernment 's1549POS's allegations1550NNSallegation ,1551,, because1552INbecause there1553EXthere were1554VBDbe four1555CDfour allegations1556NNSallegation ,1557,, four1558CDfour or1559CCor five1560CDfive ,1561,, of1562INof different1563JJdifferent employment1564NNemployment scenarios1565NNSscenario that1566IN/thatthat she1567PPshe did1568VVDdo n't1569RBn't qualify1570VVqualify for1571INfor .1572SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]1573LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right1574NPRight .1575SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1576LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But1577CCbut give1578VVgive me1579PPme an1580DTan example1581NNexample in1582INin those1583DTthose four1584CDfour or1585CCor five1586CDfive of1587INof a1588DTa process1589NNprocess that1590WDTthat could1591MDcould have1592VHhave ...1593:... that1594IN/thatthat she1595PPshe might1596MDmight have1597VHhave won1598VVNwin on1599RPon ,1600,, that1601IN/thatthat she1602PPshe might1603MDmight have1604VHhave prevailed1605VVNprevail in1606INin showing1607VVGshow that1608IN/thatthat that1609DTthat process1610NNprocess was1611VBDbe corrupted1612VVNcorrupt because1613INbecause of1614INof her1615PP$her age1616NNage .1617SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]1618LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Sure1619NPSure .1620SENT. So1621RBso for1622INfor ...1623:... one1624CDone example1625NNexample is1626VBZbe she1627PPshe sought1628VVDseek certain1629JJcertain training1630NNtraining opportunities1631NNSopportunity .1632SENT. And1633CCand I1634PPI think1635VVPthink if1636INif ...1637:... if1638INif in1639INin the1640DTthe course1641NNcourse of1642INof ...1643:... if1644INif the1645DTthe Court1646NPCourt concluded1647VVDconclude after1648INafter looking1649VVGlook at1650INat all1651PDTall the1652DTthe evidence1653NNevidence that1654IN/thatthat the1655DTthe reason1656NNreason that1657IN/thatthat she1658PPshe was1659VBDbe denied1660VVNdeny those1661DTthose training1662NNtraining opportunities1663NNSopportunity was1664VBDbe partly1665RBpartly because1666INbecause they1667PPthey thought1668VVDthink there1669EXthere were1670VBDbe other1671JJother candidates1672NNScandidate who1673WPwho were1674VBDbe good1675JJgood ,1676,, but1677CCbut partly1678RBpartly because1679INbecause they1680PPthey had1681VHDhave ...1682:... they1683PPthey had1684VHDhave a1685DTa conversation1686NNconversation around1687INaround a1688DTa table1689NNtable and1690CCand said1691VVDsay ,1692,, you1693PPyou know1694VVPknow ,1695,, Ms1696NNMs .1697SENT. Babb1698NPBabb ,1699,, she's1700NNSshe's ...1701:... she's1702NNSshe's ...1703:... she1704PPshe 's1705VBZbe really1706RBreally kind1707NNkind of1708INof old1709JJold ,1710,, we1711PPwe do1712VVPdo n't1713RBn't really1714RBreally like1715INlike her1716PPher ,1717,, she1718PPshe keeps1719VVZkeep filing1720VVGfile these1721DTthese EEO1722NPEEO claims1723NNSclaim ,1724,, she1725PPshe keeps1726VVZkeep asserting1727VVGassert her1728PP$her rights1729NNSright in1730INin this1731DTthis way1732NNway .1733SENT. Let1734NPLet 's1735POS's not1736RBnot give1737VVgive her1738PPher the1739DTthe training1740NNtraining opportunities1741NNSopportunity in1742INin part1743NNpart for1744INfor that1745DTthat reason1746NNreason .1747SENT. It1748PPit may1749MDmay be1750VBbe that1751IN/thatthat the1752DTthe government1753NNgovernment ,1754,, hypothetically1755RBhypothetically ,1756,, could1757MDcould come1758VVcome back1759RBback and1760CCand prove1761VVprove that1762IN/thatthat there1763EXthere were1764VBDbe other1765JJother more1766RBRmore qualified1767JJqualified candidates1768NNScandidate ,1769,, but1770CCbut that1771IN/thatthat process1772NNprocess has1773VHZhave been1774VBNbe infected1775VVNinfect by1776INby the1777DTthe consideration1778NNconsideration of1779INof those1780DTthose very1781RBvery significant1782JJsignificant factors1783NNSfactor of1784INof ...1785:... of1786INof pure1787JJpure age1788NNage discrimination1789NNdiscrimination .1790SENT. I1791PPI think1792VVPthink if1793INif we1794PPwe look1795VVPlook at1796INat ...1797:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1798LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Usually1799RBusually ...1800:... usually1801RBusually when1802WRBwhen we1803PPwe have1804VHPhave ...1805:... conclude1806VVPconclude that1807IN/thatthat there1808EXthere 's1809VBZbe a1810DTa tainted1811JJtainted process1812NNprocess ,1813,, we1814PPwe make1815VVPmake the1816DTthe decisionmaker1817NNdecisionmaker go1818VVgo back1819RBback and1820CCand do1821VVdo it1822PPit over1823RPover without1824INwithout the1825DTthe taint1826NNtaint ,1827,, do1828VVPdo n't1829RBn't we1830PPwe ?1831SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]1832LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I1833PPI think1834VVPthink you1835PPyou do1836VVPdo in1837INin a1838DTa circumstances1839NNScircumstance ,1840,, Your1841PP$your Honor1842NPHonor ,1843,, and1844CCand in1845INin a1846DTa circumstance1847NNcircumstance which1848WDTwhich that1849RBthat was1850VBDbe possible1851JJpossible ,1852,, that1853WDTthat might1854MDmight well1855RBwell be1856VBbe the1857DTthe ...1858:... an1859DTan available1860JJavailable remedy1861NNremedy as1862INas well1863RBwell .1864SENT. I1865PPI think1866VVPthink we1867PPwe ...1868:... we1869PPwe are1870VBPbe several1871JJseveral years1872NNSyear past1873INpast the1874DTthe ...1875:... you1876PPyou know1877VVPknow ,1878,, the1879DTthe particular1880JJparticular promotion1881NNpromotion decision1882NNdecision and1883CCand the1884DTthe particular1885JJparticular role1886NNrole .1887SENT. I1888PPI do1889VVPdo n't1890RBn't know1891VVknow if1892INif those1893DTthose roles1894NNSrole even1895RBeven currently1896RBcurrently exist1897VVexist in1898INin the1899DTthe same1900JJsame way1901NNway they1902PPthey did1903VVDdo several1904JJseveral years1905NNSyear ago1906RBago .1907SENT. But1908CCbut I1909PPI think1910VVPthink that1911WDTthat 's1912VBZbe yet1913RByet another1914DTanother example1915NNexample of1916INof the1917DTthe kind1918NNkind of1919INof equitable1920JJequitable remedy1921NNremedy that1922WDTthat could1923MDcould be1924VBbe awarded1925VVNaward if1926INif the1927DTthe process1928NNprocess was1929VBDbe determined1930VVNdetermine to1931TOto be1932VBbe tainted1933VVNtaint .1934SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]1935LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Mr1936NPMr .1937SENT. Martinez1938NPMartinez ,1939,, you1940PPyou started1941VVDstart by1942INby saying1943VVGsay that1944IN/thatthat this1945DTthis was1946VBDbe a1947DTa process1948NNprocess statute1949NNstatute .1950SENT. And1951CCand I1952PPI guess1953VVPguess I1954PPI want1955VVPwant to1956TOto press1957VVpress you1958PPyou on1959INon why1960WRBwhy you1961PPyou think1962VVPthink that1963DTthat is1964VBZbe .1965SENT. If1966INif I1967PPI understood1968VVDunderstand your1969PP$your brief1970NNbrief ,1971,, it1972PPit was1973VBDbe about1974RBabout the1975DTthe word1976NNword "1977``" made1978VVDmake ,1979,, "1980``" but1981CCbut ,1982,, I1983PPI mean1984VVPmean ,1985,, that1986WDTthat 's1987VBZbe a1988DTa possible1989JJpossible interpretation1990NNinterpretation of1991INof this1992DTthis language1993NNlanguage ,1994,, but1995CCbut another1996DTanother interpretation1997NNinterpretation is1998VBZbe that1999IN/thatthat when2000WRBwhen you2001PPyou say2002VVPsay that2003IN/thatthat a2004DTa personnel2005JJpersonnel action2006NNaction should2007MDshould be2008VBbe made2009VVNmake free2010RBfree from2011INfrom any2012DTany discrimination2013NNdiscrimination ,2014,, you2015PPyou 're2016VBPbe talking2017VVGtalk about2018INabout the2019DTthe actual2020JJactual action2021NNaction ,2022,, the2023DTthe discharge2024NNdischarge ,2025,, the2026DTthe failure2027NNfailure to2028TOto promote2029VVpromote ,2030,, whatever2031WDTwhatever ,2032,, and2033CCand saying2034VVGsay that2035IN/thatthat that2036DTthat action2037NNaction ...2038:... at2039INat the2040DTthe moment2041NNmoment in2042INin time2043NNtime when2044WRBwhen it2045PPit occurs2046VVZoccur ,2047,, that2048DTthat action2049NNaction has2050VHZhave to2051TOto be2052VBbe free2053JJfree from2054INfrom discrimination2055NNdiscrimination rather2056RBrather than2057INthan saying2058VVGsay that2059IN/thatthat the2060DTthe entire2061JJentire process2062NNprocess leading2063VVGlead up2064RPup to2065TOto it2066PPit ,2067,, including2068VVGinclude all2069PDTall the2070DTthe irrelevant2071JJirrelevant things2072NNSthing that2073WDTthat happened2074VVDhappen that2075IN/thatthat played2076VVNplay no2077DTno role2078NNrole in2079INin the2080DTthe action2081NNaction ,2082,, has2083VHZhave to2084TOto be2085VBbe free2086JJfree from2087INfrom discrimination2088NNdiscrimination .2089SENT. So2090RBso why2091WRBwhy do2092VVPdo you2093PPyou read2094VVPread this2095DTthis as2096INas a2097DTa process2098NNprocess statute2099NNstatute ?2100SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]2101LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I2102PPI ...2103:... I2104PPI think2105VVPthink that2106DTthat 's2107VBZbe a2108DTa helpful2109JJhelpful way2110NNway .2111SENT. Maybe2112RBmaybe I2113PPI could2114MDcould just2115RBjust walk2116VVwalk you2117PPyou through2118INthrough my2119PP$my interpretation2120NNinterpretation of2121INof the2122DTthe statute2123NNstatute .2124SENT. And2125CCand then2126RBthen we2127PPwe have2128VHPhave it2129PPit reproduced2130VVNreproduce here2131RBhere at2132INat page2133NNpage 52134CD5 of2135INof the2136DTthe blue2137JJblue brief2138NNbrief .2139SENT. And2140CCand so2141RBso 633a2142JJ633a (2143(( a2144DTa )2145)) ,2146,, I2147PPI think2148VVPthink they2149PPthey 're2150VBPbe sort2151RBsort of2152INof three2153CDthree big2154JJbig chunks2155NNSchunk to2156TOto the2157DTthe statute2158NNstatute that2159WDTthat are2160VBPbe relevant2161JJrelevant here2162RBhere .2163SENT. First2164NPFirst is2165VBZbe the2166DTthe subject2167NNsubject of2168INof the2169DTthe ...2170:... of2171INof the2172DTthe sentence2173NNsentence ,2174,, "2175''" all2176DTall personnel2177JJpersonnel actions2178NNSaction .2179SENT. "2180''" Then2181RBthen there2182EXthere 's2183VBZbe the2184DTthe verb2185NNverb ,2186,, "2187``" shall2188MDshall be2189VBbe made2190VVNmake .2191SENT. "2192''" And2193CCand then2194RBthen finally2195RBfinally there2196EXthere 's2197VBZbe an2198DTan adverbial2199JJadverbial phrase2200NNphrase ,2201,, "2202''" free2203JJfree from2204INfrom any2205DTany discrimination2206NNdiscrimination based2207VVNbase on2208INon age2209NNage .2210SENT. "2211``" And2212CCand we2213PPwe think2214VVPthink the2215DTthe real2216JJreal work2217NNwork here2218RBhere is2219VBZbe being2220VBGbe done2221VVNdo by2222INby the2223DTthe combination2224NNcombination of2225INof the2226DTthe adverbial2227JJadverbial phrase2228NNphrase ,2229,, "2230''" free2231JJfree from2232INfrom any2233DTany discrimination2234NNdiscrimination "2235''" that2236WDTthat modifies2237VVZmodify the2238DTthe verb2239NNverb "2240``" shall2241MDshall be2242VBbe made2243VVNmake .2244SENT. "2245``" It2246PPit 's2247VBZbe not2248RBnot made2249VVNmake on2250INon its2251PP$its own2252JJown ,2253,, it2254PPit 's2255VBZbe the2256DTthe combination2257NNcombination of2258INof those2259DTthose things2260NNSthing .2261SENT. And2262CCand we2263PPwe think2264VVPthink that2265IN/thatthat in2266INin context2267NNcontext ,2268,, that2269DTthat adverbial2270JJadverbial phrase2271NNphrase answers2272VVZanswer the2273DTthe question2274NNquestion of2275INof how2276WRBhow the2277DTthe decision2278NNdecision shall2279MDshall be2280VBbe made2281VVNmake .2282SENT. It2283PPit 's2284VBZbe not2285RBnot saying2286VVGsay what2287WPwhat 's2288VBZbe the2289DTthe decision2290NNdecision .2291SENT. It2292PPit 's2293VBZbe not2294RBnot saying2295VVGsay when2296WRBwhen does2297VVZdo the2298DTthe decision2299NNdecision have2300VHhave to2301TOto happen2302VVhappen .2303SENT. It2304PPit 's2305VBZbe talking2306VVGtalk about2307RBabout how2308WRBhow that2309DTthat decision2310NNdecision shall2311MDshall be2312VBbe made2313VVNmake .2314SENT. That2315DTthat 's2316VBZbe a2317DTa ...2318:... that2319WDTthat 's2320VBZbe process2321NNprocess language2322NNlanguage .2323SENT. I2324PPI think2325VVPthink the2326DTthe second2327JJsecond thing2328NNthing is2329VBZbe ,2330,, once2331RBonce you2332PPyou look2333VVPlook within2334INwithin the2335DTthe adverbial2336JJadverbial phrase2337NNphrase ,2338,, within2339INwithin the2340DTthe "2341``" free2342JJfree from2343INfrom any2344DTany discrimination2345NNdiscrimination based2346VVNbase on2347INon any2348DTany age2349NNage "2350``" phrase2351NNphrase ,2352,, you2353PPyou should2354MDshould ask2355VVask yourself2356PPyourself ,2357,, okay2358RBokay ,2359,, well2360RBwell ,2361,, what2362WPwhat does2363VVZdo this2364DTthis process2365NNprocess have2366VHhave to2367TOto be2368VBbe free2369JJfree from2370INfrom ?2371SENT? The2372DTthe next2373JJnext part2374NNpart of2375INof the2376DTthe statute2377NNstatute is2378VBZbe "2379``" any2380DTany discrimination2381NNdiscrimination .2382SENT. "2383''" And2384CCand the2385DTthe word2386NNword "2387``" discrimination2388NNdiscrimination "2389''" has2390VHZhave been2391VBNbe interpreted2392VVNinterpret under2393INunder its2394PP$its plain2395JJplain meaning2396NNmeaning and2397CCand this2398DTthis ...2399:... and2400CCand in2401INin this2402DTthis Court2403NPCourt 's2404POS's decision2405NNdecision in2406INin Jackson2407NPJackson just2408RBjust to2409TOto mean2410VVmean unequal2411JJunequal differential2412NNdifferential or2413CCor less2414JJRless favorable2415JJfavorable treatment2416NNtreatment .2417SENT. And2418CCand we2419PPwe think2420VVPthink that2421IN/thatthat that2422WDTthat is2423VBZbe ...2424:... we2425PPwe accept2426VVPaccept that2427IN/thatthat ,2428,, I2429PPI think2430VVPthink the2431DTthe Solicitor2432NPSolicitor General2433NPGeneral has2434VHZhave conceded2435VVNconcede that2436IN/thatthat that2437DTthat 's2438VBZbe the2439DTthe understanding2440NNunderstanding of2441INof discrimination2442NNdiscrimination .2443SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]2444LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] So2445INso I2446PPI think2447VVPthink what2448WPwhat the2449DTthe Solicitor2450NPSolicitor General2451NPGeneral would2452MDwould say2453VVsay is2454VBZbe ,2455,, sure2456RBsure ,2457,, it2458PPit 's2459VBZbe unequal2460JJunequal treatment2461NNtreatment but2462CCbut a2463DTa person2464NNperson is2465VBZbe only2466RBonly subject2467JJsubject to2468TOto unequal2469JJunequal treatment2470NNtreatment if2471INif he2472PPhe or2473CCor she2474PPshe does2475VVZdo n't2476RBn't get2477VVget the2478DTthe outcome2479NNoutcome that2480IN/thatthat he2481PPhe would2482MDwould otherwise2483RBotherwise have2484VHhave gotten2485VVNget .2486SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]2487LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Well2488UHWell ...2489:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]2490LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] And2491CCand if2492INif everything2493NNeverything ends2494VVZend up2495RPup the2496DTthe same2497JJsame ,2498,, then2499RBthen there2500EXthere 's2501VHZhave been2502VBNbe no2503DTno unequal2504JJunequal treatment2505NNtreatment .2506SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]2507LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Well2508UHwell ,2509,, I2510PPI think2511VVPthink ...2512:... I2513PPI think2514VVPthink ,2515,, Your2516PP$your Honor2517NPHonor ,2518,, that2519WDTthat 's2520VBZbe why2521WRBwhy the2522DTthe first2523JJfirst part2524NNpart ,2525,, the2526DTthe "2527``" free2528JJfree from2529INfrom "2530``" language2531NNlanguage and2532CCand the2533DTthe fact2534NNfact that2535IN/thatthat it2536PPit 's2537VBZbe an2538DTan adverbial2539JJadverbial phrase2540NNphrase modifying2541VVGmodify the2542DTthe verb2543NNverb ,2544,, and2545CCand that2546IN/thatthat that2547DTthat language2548NNlanguage is2549VBZbe talking2550VVGtalk ...2551:... signals2552VVZsignal that2553IN/thatthat we2554PPwe 're2555VBPbe talking2556VVGtalk about2557INabout process2558NNprocess .2559SENT. Once2560RBonce you2561PPyou know2562VVPknow that2563IN/thatthat we2564PPwe 've2565VHPhave got2566VVNget this2567DTthis ...2568:... we2569PPwe 've2570VHPhave got2571VVNget this2572DTthis modifier2573NNmodifier that2574WDTthat 's2575VBZbe a2576DTa process2577NNprocess modifier2578NNmodifier ,2579,, that2580WDTthat 's2581VBZbe talking2582VVGtalk about2583INabout the2584DTthe process2585NNprocess ,2586,, I2587PPI think2588VVPthink that2589IN/thatthat then2590RBthen sheds2591VVZshed light2592JJlight on2593INon what2594WPwhat we2595PPwe mean2596VVPmean by2597INby discrimination2598NNdiscrimination .2599SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2600LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Well2601UHWell ,2602,, what2603WDTwhat ...2604:... what2605WPwhat about2606INabout the2607DTthe subject2608NNsubject ,2609,, "2610``" actions2611NNSaction "2612''" ?2613SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]2614LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right2615NPRight .2616SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2617LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] And2618CCand that2619DTthat 's2620VBZbe a2621DTa term2622NNterm that2623WDTthat 's2624VBZbe used2625VVNuse in2626INin Nassar2627NPNassar ,2628,, a2629DTa term2630NNterm that2631WDTthat used2632VVDuse in2633INin Gross2634NPGross ,2635,, the2636DTthe word2637NNword "2638``" action2639NNaction ,2640,, "2641''" and2642CCand the2643DTthe action2644NNaction is2645VBZbe usually2646RBusually referred2647VVNrefer to2648TOto as2649INas an2650DTan adverse2651JJadverse employment2652NNemployment action2653NNaction ,2654,, namely2655RBnamely as2656INas Justice2657NPJustice Kagan2658NPKagan says2659VVZsay ,2660,, the2661DTthe decision2662NNdecision .2663SENT. And2664CCand your2665PP$your brief2666NNbrief uses2667VVZuse the2668DTthe word2669NNword "2670``" process2671NNprocess "2672''" over2673INover and2674CCand over2675INover ,2676,, and2677CCand the2678DTthe CS2679NPCS ...2680:... civil2681JJcivil service2682NNservice laws2683NNSlaw that2684IN/thatthat Justice2685NPJustice Gorsuch2686NPGorsuch referenced2687VVDreference do2688VVdo say2689VVPsay that2690IN/thatthat the2691DTthe process2692NNprocess has2693VHZhave to2694TOto be2695VBbe free2696JJfree of2697INof any2698DTany ...2699:... you2700PPyou have2701VHPhave to2702TOto be2703VBbe treated2704VVNtreat fair2705JJfair and2706CCand equitably2707RBequitably throughout2708INthroughout the2709DTthe ...2710:... the2711DTthe process2712NNprocess but2713CCbut this2714DTthis does2715VVZdo n't2716RBn't say2717VVsay that2718DTthat .2719SENT. It2720PPit says2721VVZsay "2722``" action2723NNaction .2724SENT. "2725''" So2726RBso how2727WRBhow do2728VVPdo we2729PPwe deal2730VVdeal with2731INwith the2732DTthe word2733NNword "2734``" action2735NNaction "2736''" ?2737SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]2738LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Well2739UHwell ,2740,, I2741PPI think2742VVPthink you2743PPyou need2744VVPneed to2745TOto read2746VVread it2747PPit again2748RBagain in2749INin ...2750:... in2751INin the2752DTthe context2753NNcontext of2754INof the2755DTthe whole2756JJwhole sentence2757NNsentence .2758SENT. And2759CCand it2760PPit ...2761:... and2762CCand it2763PPit does2764VVZdo n't2765RBn't say2766VVsay actions2767NNSaction shall2768MDshall be2769VBbe ...2770:... can2771MDcan 't2772RB't be2773VBbe based2774VVNbase on2775INon age2776NNage .2777SENT. It2778PPit says2779VVZsay ,2780,, "2781``" actions2782NNSaction shall2783MDshall be2784VBbe made2785VVNmake free2786RBfree from2787INfrom any2788DTany discrimination2789NNdiscrimination based2790VVNbase on2791INon age2792NNage .2793SENT. "2794''" And2795CCand so2796RBso that2797DTthat ...2798:... that2799DTthat phrase2800NNphrase ,2801,, we2802PPwe agree2803VVPagree with2804INwith the2805DTthe Solicitor2806NPSolicitor General2807NPGeneral .2808SENT. I2809PPI think2810VVPthink they2811PPthey say2812VVPsay this2813DTthis ...2814:... I2815PPI think2816VVPthink they2817PPthey say2818VVPsay this2819DTthis on2820RBon ...2821:... in2822INin their2823PP$their ...2824:... in2825INin their2826PP$their own2827JJown brief2828NNbrief .2829SENT. They2830PPthey ...2831:... they2832PPthey ...2833:... they2834PPthey say2835VVPsay that2836IN/thatthat the2837DTthe ...2838:... the2839DTthe ...2840:... the2841DTthe work2842NNwork that2843WDTthat 's2844VBZbe done2845VVNdo by2846INby the2847DTthe phrase2848NNphrase "2849``" personnel2850JJpersonnel action2851NNaction "2852''" is2853VBZbe simply2854RBsimply to2855TOto explain2856VVexplain the2857DTthe range2858NNrange of2859INof employment-related2860JJemployment-related actions2861NNSaction that2862WDTthat 's2863VBZbe ...2864:... that2865WDTthat 's2866VBZbe covered2867VVNcover by2868INby the2869DTthe statute2870NNstatute generally2871RBgenerally .2872SENT. It2873PPit does2874VVZdo n't2875RBn't bear2876VVbear on2877INon the2878DTthe but-for2879NNbut-for causation2880NNcausation question2881NNquestion .2882SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]2883LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] I2884PPI do2885VVPdo n't2886RBn't know2887VVknow ...2888:... I'm2889NNI'm ...2890:... I2891PPI 'm2892VBPbe sorry2893JJsorry .2894SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]2895LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I2896PPI 'm2897VBPbe sorry2898JJsorry .2899SENT. Just2900RBjust to2901TOto ...2902:... to2903TOto answer2904VVanswer the2905DTthe question2906NNquestion about2907INabout action2908NNaction ,2909,, I2910PPI think2911VVPthink the2912DTthe key2913JJkey point2914NNpoint here2915RBhere is2916VBZbe ,2917,, if2918INif you2919PPyou look2920VVPlook at2921INat ...2922:... if2923INif you2924PPyou look2925VVPlook at2926INat this2927DTthis page2928NNpage 52929CD5 of2930INof our2931PP$our blue2932JJblue brief2933NNbrief ,2934,, it2935PPit ...2936:... what2937WPwhat strikes2938VVZstrike me2939PPme is2940VBZbe the2941DTthe phrase2942NNphrase that2943IN/thatthat the2944DTthe Solicitor2945NPSolicitor General2946NPGeneral relies2947VVZrely on2948INon ,2949,, "2950''" based2951VVNbase on2952INon age2953NNage ,2954,, "2955''" that2956WDTthat 's2957VBZbe what2958WPwhat they2959PPthey 're2960VBPbe getting2961VVGget ...2962:... where2963WRBwhere they2964PPthey 're2965VBPbe getting2966VVGget their2967PP$their but-for2968NNbut-for causation2969NNcausation textual2970JJtextual argument2971NNargument .2972SENT. It2973PPit 's2974VBZbe all2975PDTall the2976DTthe way2977NNway down2978RBdown at2979INat the2980DTthe bottom2981NNbottom of2982INof the2983DTthe ...2984:... at2985INat the2986DTthe end2987NNend of2988INof that2989DTthat paragraph2990NNparagraph .2991SENT. And2992CCand if2993INif you2994PPyou look2995VVPlook at2996INat it2997PPit ,2998,, it2999PPit modifies3000VVZmodify the3001DTthe word3002NNword "3003``" discrimination3004NNdiscrimination ,3005,, "3006''" which3007WDTwhich is3008VBZbe immediately3009RBimmediately to3010TOto the3011DTthe left3012NNleft .3013SENT. But3014CCbut what3015WPwhat the3016DTthe Solicitor3017NPSolicitor General3018NPGeneral is3019VBZbe asking3020VVGask you3021PPyou to3022TOto do3023VVdo is3024VBZbe take3025VVtake that3026IN/thatthat based3027VVNbase on3028INon age3029NNage ...3030:... age3031NNage phrase3032NNphrase ,3033,, walk3034VVPwalk up3035RPup 173036CD@card@ lines3037NNSline of3038INof text3039NNtext ,3040,, turn3041VVturn left3042RBleft and3043CCand have3044VHhave it3045PPit modify3046VVmodify "3047``" personnel3048JJpersonnel actions3049NNSaction .3050SENT. "3051``" That3052DTthat 's3053VBZbe just3054RBjust not3055RBnot how3056WRBhow the3057DTthe ...3058:... the3059DTthe statute3060NNstatute reads3061VVZread .3062SENT. And3063CCand I3064PPI think3065VVPthink what3066WPwhat ...3067:... what3068WPwhat this3069DTthis Court3070NPCourt has3071VHZhave always3072RBalways done3073VVNdo and3074CCand ...3075:... and3076CCand needs3077VVZneed to3078TOto do3079VVdo is3080VBZbe look3081VVlook very3082RBvery carefully3083RBcarefully at3084INat the3085DTthe wording3086NNwording of3087INof the3088DTthe statute3089NNstatute .3090SENT. This3091DTthis is3092VBZbe the3093DTthe same3094JJsame point3095NNpoint that3096IN/thatthat Judges3097NPJudges Tatel3098NPTatel and3099CCand Sentelle3100NPSentelle made3101VVDmake in3102INin the3103DTthe DC3104NPDC Circuit3105NPCircuit that3106IN/thatthat this3107DTthis statute3108NNstatute ...3109:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3110LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Judge3111NPJudge Henderson3112NPHenderson disagreed3113VVDdisagree .3114SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]3115LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Judge3116NPJudge ...3117:... you3118PPyou know3119VVPknow ,3120,, Judge3121NPJudge Henderson3122NPHenderson concurred3123VVDconcur ,3124,, Your3125PP$your Honor3126NPHonor ,3127,, so3128RBso she3129PPshe agreed3130VVDagree with3131INwith the3132DTthe remand3133NNremand .3134SENT. She3135PPshe ...3136:... she3137PPshe expressed3138VVDexpress some3139DTsome doubts3140NNSdoubt about3141RBabout maybe3142RBmaybe the3143DTthe ...3144:... the3145DTthe ...3146:... the3147DTthe clarity3148NNclarity or3149CCor the3150DTthe ...3151:... the3152DTthe force3153NNforce of3154INof the3155DTthe particular3156JJparticular arguments3157NNSargument that3158WDTthat Judges3159NPSJudges Tatel3160NPTatel and3161CCand Sentelle3162NPSentelle made3163VVDmake .3164SENT. But3165CCbut the3166DTthe bottom3167JJbottom line3168NNline here3169RBhere is3170VBZbe I3171PPI think3172VVPthink grammatically3173RBgrammatically there3174EXthere 's3175VBZbe no3176DTno question3177NNquestion that3178IN/thatthat "3179``" based3180VVNbase on3181INon age3182NNage "3183``" modifies3184VVZmodify "3185``" discrimination3186NNdiscrimination .3187SENT. "3188''" [JUSTICE ALITO]3189LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] But3190CCbut what3191WPwhat happens3192VVZhappen if3193INif age3194NNage plays3195VVZplay no3196DTno role3197NNrole whatsoever3198RBwhatsoever in3199INin the3200DTthe actual3201JJactual decision3202NNdecision but3203CCbut at3204INat some3205DTsome prior3206JJprior point3207NNpoint in3208INin the3209DTthe process3210NNprocess ,3211,, age3212NNage was3213VBDbe considered3214VVNconsider .3215SENT. I3216PPI do3217VVPdo n't3218RBn't know3219VVknow that3220DTthat anything3221NNanything ...3222:... I3223PPI do3224VVPdo n't3225RBn't think3226VVthink your3227PP$your argument3228NNargument depends3229VVZdepend on3230INon whether3231INwhether we3232PPwe look3233VVPlook just3234RBjust at3235INat the3236DTthe final3237JJfinal decision3238NNdecision or3239CCor we3240PPwe look3241VVPlook at3242INat the3243DTthe whole3244JJwhole process3245NNprocess .3246SENT. But3247CCbut what3248WPwhat would3249MDwould happen3250VVhappen in3251INin that3252DTthat situation3253NNsituation ?3254SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]3255LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I3256PPI think3257VVPthink it3258PPit would3259MDwould ...3260:... it3261PPit would3262MDwould depend3263VVdepend .3264SENT. So3265RBso maybe3266RBmaybe I3267PPI 'd3268MDwould have3269VHhave to3270TOto understand3271VVunderstand the3272DTthe hypothetical3273JJhypothetical a3274DTa little3275JJlittle bit3276NNbit more3277RBRmore .3278SENT. I3279PPI think3280VVPthink if3281INif ...3282:... if3283INif ...3284:... if3285INif someone3286NNsomeone could3287MDcould look3288VVlook at3289INat the3290DTthe entire3291JJentire ...3292:... at3293INat the3294DTthe ...3295:... the3296DTthe decisionmaking3297VVGdecisionmak process3298NNprocess and3299CCand say3300VVPsay that3301IN/thatthat age3302NNage was3303VBDbe not3304RBnot a3305DTa factor3306NNfactor at3307INat all3308DTall ,3309,, then3310RBthen I3311PPI think3312VVPthink we3313PPwe would3314MDwould not3315RBnot ...3316:... a3317DTa ...3318:... a3319DTa ...3320:... a3321DTa ...3322:... a3323DTa plaintiff3324NNplaintiff would3325MDwould not3326RBnot prevail3327VVprevail .3328SENT. But3329CCbut if3330INif age3331NNage played3332VVDplay a3333DTa significant3334JJsignificant role3335NNrole at3336INat the3337DTthe beginning3338NNbeginning of3339INof the3340DTthe process3341NNprocess in3342INin some3343DTsome way3344NNway ,3345,, then3346RBthen I3347PPI think3348VVPthink it3349PPit ...3350:... it3351PPit would3352MDwould not3353RBnot be3354VBbe made3355VVNmake free3356RBfree from3357INfrom discrimination3358NNdiscrimination under3359INunder the3360DTthe plain3361JJplain language3362NNlanguage of3363INof the3364DTthe statute3365NNstatute .3366SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3367LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well3368UHWell ,3369,, but3370CCbut if3371INif ...3372:... if3373INif the3374DTthe statute3375NNstatute prohibits3376VVZprohibit any3377DTany discrimination3378NNdiscrimination ,3379,, I3380PPI do3381VVPdo n't3382RBn't know3383VVknow where3384WRBwhere you3385PPyou get3386VVPget your3387PP$your qualification3388NNqualification that3389IN/thatthat it3390PPit has3391VHZhave to3392TOto be3393VBbe a3394DTa significant3395JJsignificant factor3396NNfactor .3397SENT. It3398PPit does3399VVZdo n't3400RBn't to3401TOto have3402VHhave affect3403VVaffect the3404DTthe final3405JJfinal action3406NNaction .3407SENT. So3408RBso what3409WPwhat type3410NNtype of3411INof discrimination3412NNdiscrimination ,3413,, any3414DTany type3415NNtype ...3416:... let3417VVlet 's3418VBZbe say3419VVsay in3420INin the3421DTthe course3422NNcourse of3423INof the3424DTthe ,3425,, you3426PPyou know3427VVPknow ,3428,, weeks3429NNSweek '3430POS' long3431JJlong process3432NNprocess ,3433,, you3434PPyou know3435VVPknow ,3436,, one3437CDone comment3438NNcomment about3439INabout age3440NNage ,3441,, you3442PPyou know3443VVPknow ,3444,, the3445DTthe hiring3446VVGhire person3447NNperson is3448VBZbe younger3449JJRyoung ,3450,, says3451VVZsay ,3452,, you3453PPyou know3454VVPknow ,3455,, "3456``" OK3457UHOK Boomer3458NPBoomer ,3459,, "3460``" you3461PPyou know3462VVPknow ...3463:... [3464SYM[ LAUGHTER3465NNlaughter ]3466SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3467LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...3468:... once3469RBonce to3470TOto the3471DTthe ...3472:... to3473TOto the3474DTthe applicant3475NNapplicant .3476SENT. Now3477RBnow ,3478,, you3479PPyou 're3480VBPbe only3481RBonly concerned3482VVNconcern about3483INabout process3484NNprocess .3485SENT. You3486PPyou 're3487VBPbe not3488RBnot concerned3489VVNconcern about3490INabout but-for3491NNbut-for causation3492NNcausation .3493SENT. It3494PPit does3495VVZdo n't3496RBn't have3497VHhave to3498TOto have3499VHhave played3500VVNplay a3501DTa role3502NNrole in3503INin the3504DTthe actual3505JJactual decision3506NNdecision .3507SENT. So3508RBso is3509VBZbe that3510IN/thatthat actionable3511JJactionable ?3512SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]3513LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I3514PPI ...3515:... I3516PPI think3517VVPthink we3518PPwe would3519MDwould say3520VVsay that3521IN/thatthat it3522PPit does3523VVZdo have3524VHPhave to3525TOto play3526VVplay a3527DTa role3528NNrole in3529INin the3530DTthe decisionmaking3531VVGdecisionmak process3532NNprocess that3533WDTthat ...3534:... that3535WDTthat leads3536VVZlead to3537TOto the3538DTthe decision3539NNdecision .3540SENT. And3541CCand I3542PPI think3543VVPthink in3544INin that3545DTthat particular3546JJparticular case3547NNcase ,3548,, if3549INif ...3550:... if3551INif it3552PPit really3553RBreally had3554VHDhave no3555DTno role3556NNrole ,3557,, if3558INif it3559PPit was3560VBDbe just3561RBjust sort3562NNsort of3563INof ,3564,, you3565PPyou know3566VVPknow ,3567,, a3568DTa ...3569:... a3570DTa stray3571JJstray comment3572NNcomment in3573INin the3574DTthe air3575NNair ,3576,, I3577PPI think3578VVPthink that3579IN/thatthat on3580INon the3581DTthe facts3582NNSfact of3583INof that3584DTthat ,3585,, I3586PPI think3587VVPthink a3588DTa ...3589:... a3590DTa court3591NNcourt could3592MDcould conclude3593VVconclude ...3594:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3595LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So3596RBso how3597WRBhow do3598VVPdo you3599PPyou ...3600:... how3601WRBhow do3602VVPdo you3603PPyou tell3604VVtell what3605WPwhat 's3606VBZbe a3607DTa significant3608JJsignificant factor3609NNfactor in3610INin the3611DTthe decision3612NNdecision ?3613SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]3614LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We3615PPwe 're3616VBPbe not3617RBnot saying3618VVGsay it3619PPit has3620VHZhave to3621TOto be3622VBbe a3623DTa ...3624:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3625LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] No3626NPNo .3627SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]3628LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We3629PPwe 're3630VBPbe not3631RBnot using3632VVGuse the3633DTthe term3634NNterm ...3635:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3636LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Some3637DTsome factor3638NNfactor .3639SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]3640LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] ...3641:... "3642``" significant3643JJsignificant .3644SENT. "3645``" We3646PPwe 're3647VBPbe saying3648VVGsay that3649DTthat ...3650:... ultimately3651RBultimately ,3652,, we3653PPwe 're3654VBPbe saying3655VVGsay what3656WPwhat the3657DTthe statute3658NNstatute says3659VVZsay ,3660,, which3661WDTwhich is3662VBZbe that3663IN/thatthat the3664DTthe ...3665:... that3666IN/thatthat it3667PPit needs3668VVZneed to3669TOto be3670VBbe made3671VVNmake free3672RBfree from3673INfrom discrimination3674NNdiscrimination .3675SENT. We3676PPwe think3677VVPthink that3678WDTthat applies3679VVZapply to3680TOto the3681DTthe process3682NNprocess as3683INas a3684DTa whole3685NNwhole .3686SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3687LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well3688UHwell ,3689,, you3690PPyou say3691VVPsay free3692JJfree from3693INfrom any3694DTany discrimination3695NNdiscrimination ...3696:... [MR. MARTINEZ]3697LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Even3698RBeven better3699RBRwell .3700SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3701LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...3702:... it3703PPit does3704VVZdo n't3705RBn't have3706VHhave to3707TOto result3708VVresult in3709INin the3710DTthe final3711JJfinal decision3712NNdecision .3713SENT. I3714PPI 'm3715VBPbe just3716RBjust trying3717VVGtry to3718TOto see3719VVsee how3720WRBhow many3721JJmany stray3722JJstray comments3723NNScomment do3724VVPdo you3725PPyou need3726VVPneed and3727CCand who3728WPwho has3729VHZhave to3730TOto make3731VVmake them3732PPthem before3733INbefore you3734PPyou decide3735VVPdecide that3736IN/thatthat ,3737,, although3738INalthough it3739PPit says3740VVZsay "3741``" any3742DTany ,3743,, "3744``" we3745PPwe do3746VVPdo n't3747RBn't really3748RBreally mean3749VVmean any3750DTany .3751SENT. We3752PPwe mean3753VVPmean some3754DTsome discrimination3755NNdiscrimination that3756WDTthat has3757VHZhave a3758DTa particular3759JJparticular effect3760NNeffect ,3761,, even3762RBeven if3763INif it3764PPit 's3765VBZbe not3766RBnot but-for3767JJbut-for .3768SENT. I3769PPI 'm3770VBPbe just3771RBjust wondering3772VVGwonder if3773INif ...3774:... [MR. MARTINEZ]3775LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Yeah3776NPYeah .3777SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3778LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...3779:... your3780PP$your position3781NNposition is3782VBZbe going3783VVGgo to3784TOto become3785VVbecome a3786DTa ...3787:... a3788DTa ...3789:... a3790DTa ...3791:... really3792RBreally just3793RBjust a3794DTa regulation3795NNregulation of3796INof speech3797NNspeech in3798INin the3799DTthe workplace3800NNworkplace .3801SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]3802LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Oh3803NPOh ,3804,, of3805INof course3806NNcourse not3807RBnot ,3808,, Your3809PP$your Honor3810NPHonor .3811SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3812LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well3813UHWell ,3814,, of3815INof course3816NNcourse ...3817:... well3818RBwell ,3819,, then3820RBthen explain3821VVexplain how3822WRBhow not3823RBnot .3824SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]3825LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Well3826UHWell ,3827,, if3828INif ...3829:... if3830INif ...3831:... if3832INif the3833DTthe speech3834NNspeech in3835INin the3836DTthe workplace3837NNworkplace is3838VBZbe ,3839,, you3840PPyou know3841VVPknow ,3842,, using3843VVGuse ethnic3844JJethnic slurs3845NNSslur or3846CCor ...3847:... or3848CCor ,3849,, you3850PPyou know3851VVPknow ,3852,, calling3853VVGcall people3854NNSpeople "3855``" Boomer3856NPBoomer "3857''" or3858CCor saying3859VVGsay unflattering3860JJunflattering things3861NNSthing about3862INabout them3863PPthem in3864INin age3865NNage when3866WRBwhen considering3867VVGconsider them3868PPthem for3869INfor a3870DTa position3871NNposition ,3872,, then3873RBthen ,3874,, yes3875UHyes ,3876,, of3877INof course3878NNcourse .3879SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3880LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So3881INso calling3882VVGcall somebody3883NNsomebody a3884DTa "3885``" Boomer3886NPBoomer "3887''" and3888CCand considering3889VVGconsider them3890PPthem for3891INfor a3892DTa position3893NNposition would3894MDwould be3895VBbe actionable3896JJactionable ?3897SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]3898LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I3899PPI think3900VVPthink if3901INif ...3902:... if3903INif ...3904:... if3905INif ...3906:... if3907INif the3908DTthe decisionmakers3909NNSdecisionmaker are3910VBPbe sitting3911VVGsit around3912RParound the3913DTthe table3914NNtable and3915CCand they3916PPthey say3917VVPsay ,3918,, we3919PPwe 've3920VHPhave got3921VVNget Candidate3922NNcandidate A3923DTa who3924WPwho 's3925VBZbe and3926CCand we3927PPwe 've3928VHPhave got3929VVNget Candidate3930NNcandidate B3931NNB who3932WPwho 's3933VBZbe 553934CD@card@ and3935CCand is3936VBZbe a3937DTa boomer3938NNboomer and3939CCand is3940VBZbe probably3941RBprobably tired3942JJtired and3943CCand ...3944:... and3945CCand ,3946,, you3947PPyou know3948VVPknow ,3949,, does3950VVZdo n't3951RBn't know3952VVknow ...3953:... have3954VHPhave a3955DTa lot3956NNlot of3957INof computer3958NNcomputer skills3959NNSskill ,3960,, I3961PPI think3962VVPthink that3963IN/thatthat absolutely3964RBabsolutely would3965MDwould be3966VBbe actionable3967JJactionable .3968SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3969LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well3970UHWell ,3971,, what3972WPwhat if3973INif he3974PPhe just3975RBjust calls3976VVZcall him3977PPhim a3978DTa "3979``" Boomer3980NPBoomer .3981SENT. "3982``" I3983PPI mean3984VVPmean that3985DTthat ...3986:... I3987PPI 'm3988VBPbe just3989RBjust trying3990VVGtry to3991TOto ...3992:... [MR. MARTINEZ]3993LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I3994PPI think3995VVPthink that3996DTthat ...3997:... I3998PPI ...3999:... I4000PPI ...4001:... it4002PPit ...4003:... it4004PPit seems4005VVZseem to4006TOto me4007PPme like4008INlike that4009WDTthat would4010MDwould be4011VBbe a4012DTa classic4013JJclassic question4014NNquestion for4015INfor the4016DTthe fact4017NNfact finder4018NNfinder .4019SENT. But4020CCbut if4021INif the4022DTthe fact4023NNfact finder4024NNfinder were4025VBDbe to4026TOto conclude4027VVconclude that4028IN/thatthat that4029DTthat statement4030NNstatement reflected4031VVDreflect ,4032,, was4033VBDbe one4034CDone of4035INof the4036DTthe factors4037NNSfactor going4038VVGgo into4039INinto this4040DTthis decision4041NNdecision ,4042,, I4043PPI think4044VVPthink it4045PPit absolutely4046RBabsolutely would4047MDwould be4048VBbe covered4049VVNcover .4050SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4051LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] But4052CCbut the4053DTthe key4054JJkey ...4055:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4056LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I4057PPI think4058VVPthink it4059PPit absolutely4060RBabsolutely would4061MDwould be4062VBbe covered4063VVNcover .4064SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4065LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Is4066VBZbe ...4067:... is4068VBZbe ...4069:... when4070WRBwhen you4071PPyou answered4072VVDanswer that4073DTthat question4074NNquestion ,4075,, I4076PPI had4077VHDhave thought4078VVNthink you4079PPyou would4080MDwould say4081VVsay ,4082,, and4083CCand you4084PPyou did4085VVDdo n't4086RBn't ,4087,, and4088CCand ...4089:... and4090CCand so4091RBso this4092DTthis is4093VBZbe why4094WRBwhy I4095PPI have4096VHPhave a4097DTa question4098NNquestion .4099SENT. There4100EXthere is4101VBZbe another4102DTanother statute4103NNstatute ,4104,, Title4105NPTitle VII4106NPVII ,4107,, and4108CCand what4109WPwhat it4110PPit says4111VVZsay is4112VBZbe when4113WRBwhen the4114DTthe discrimination4115NNdiscrimination is4116VBZbe a4117DTa motivating4118VVGmotivate factor4119NNfactor ,4120,, but4121CCbut even4122RBeven though4123INthough other4124JJother factors4125NNSfactor also4126RBalso motivated4127VVNmotivate that4128DTthat practice4129NNpractice .4130SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4131LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right4132NPRight .4133SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4134LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Now4135RBnow ...4136:... now4137RBnow ,4138,, I4139PPI thought4140VVDthink you4141PPyou were4142VBDbe going4143VVGgo to4144TOto pick4145VVpick up4146RPup the4147DTthe same4148JJsame standard4149NNstandard .4150SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4151LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We4152PPwe ...4153:... we4154PPwe think4155VVPthink that4156IN/thatthat our4157PP$our standard4158NNstandard is4159VBZbe essentially4160RBessentially the4161DTthe same4162JJsame standard4163NNstandard .4164SENT. We4165PPwe just4166RBjust ...4167:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4168LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Right4169RBright .4170SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4171LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We4172PPwe just4173RBjust have4174VHPhave n't4175RBn't ...4176:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4177LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] So4178INso we4179PPwe could4180MDcould say4181VVsay in4182INin the4183DTthe opinion4184NNopinion what4185WPwhat this4186DTthis means4187NNmeans ,4188,, to4189TOto be4190VBbe free4191JJfree ,4192,, is4193VBZbe the4194DTthe same4195JJsame thing4196NNthing that4197IN/thatthat Congress4198NPCongress said4199VVDsay when4200WRBwhen it4201PPit amended4202VVDamend Title4203NPTitle VII4204NPVII ,4205,, that4206WDTthat it4207PPit is4208VBZbe n't4209RBn't enough4210JJenough to4211TOto show4212VVshow ...4213:... if4214INif you4215PPyou just4216RBjust show4217VVPshow ...4218:... you4219PPyou do4220VVPdo n't4221RBn't have4222VHhave to4223TOto show4224VVshow ,4225,, plaintiff4226NNplaintiff ,4227,, that4228IN/thatthat it4229PPit is4230VBZbe but-for4231JJbut-for ,4232,, but4233CCbut you4234PPyou do4235VVPdo have4236VHhave to4237TOto show4238VVshow it4239PPit was4240VBDbe a4241DTa motivating4242VVGmotivate factor4243NNfactor even4244RBeven though4245INthough there4246EXthere may4247MDmay have4248VHhave been4249VBNbe other4250JJother "4251''" motivating4252VVGmotivate factors4253NNSfactor .4254SENT. "4255''" [MR. MARTINEZ]4256LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right4257NPRight .4258SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4259LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And4260CCand ,4261,, therefore4262RBtherefore ,4263,, there4264EXthere is4265VBZbe no4266DTno more4267RBRmore administrative4268JJadministrative problem4269NNproblem in4270INin this4271DTthis than4272INthan there4273EXthere is4274VBZbe anyway4275RBanyway under4276INunder Title4277NPTitle VII4278NPVII .4279SENT. Now4280RBnow ,4281,, that4282WDTthat 's4283VBZbe what4284WPwhat I4285PPI 'd4286VHDhave thought4287VVNthink you'd4288NNSyou'd ...4289:... but4290CCbut you4291PPyou did4292VVDdo n't4293RBn't say4294VVsay that4295DTthat .4296SENT. So4297RBso now4298RBnow I4299PPI do4300VVPdo n't4301RBn't ...4302:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4303LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Let4304VVlet me4305PPme ...4306:... let4307VVlet me4308PPme just4309RBjust ...4310:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4311LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] You4312PPyou disagree4313VVPdisagree with4314INwith me4315PPme because4316INbecause you4317PPyou ...4318:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4319LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] No4320UHNo ,4321,, no4322UHno ,4323,, no4324UHno .4325SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4326LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...4327:... think4328VVthink it4329PPit ...4330:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4331LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] ...4332:... let4333VVlet me4334PPme explain4335VVexplain .4336SENT. The4337DTthe ...4338:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4339LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yeah4340UHYeah ,4341,, go4342VVgo ahead4343RBahead .4344SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4345LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] The4346DTthe reason4347NNreason we4348PPwe had4349VHDhave ...4350:... we4351PPwe did4352VVDdo n't4353RBn't do4354VVdo that4355WDTthat is4356VBZbe because4357INbecause ,4358,, I4359PPI think4360VVPthink as4361INas everyone4362NNeveryone would4363MDwould agree4364VVagree ,4365,, by4366INby its4367PP$its terms4368NNSterm ,4369,, that4370DTthat provision4371NNprovision does4372VVZdo not4373RBnot directly4374RBdirectly apply4375VVapply to4376TOto this4377DTthis statute4378NNstatute .4379SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4380LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] No4381NPNo ,4382,, I4383PPI know4384VVPknow it4385PPit does4386VVZdo n't4387RBn't .4388SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4389LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I4390PPI 'm4391VBPbe just4392RBjust explaining4393VVGexplain ...4394:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4395LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yeah4396NPYeah .4397SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4398LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] ...4399:... why4400WRBwhy I4401PPI did4402VVDdo n't4403RBn't say4404VVsay it4405PPit .4406SENT. But4407CCbut I4408PPI think4409VVPthink the4410DTthe substance4411NNsubstance of4412INof the4413DTthe point4414NNpoint is4415VBZbe exactly4416RBexactly right4417JJright .4418SENT. I4419PPI think4420VVPthink that4421DTthat ...4422:... that4423DTthat ...4424:... that4425IN/thatthat this4426DTthis would4427MDwould not4428RBnot create4429VVcreate administrability4430NNadministrability problems4431NNSproblem .4432SENT. You4433PPyou would4434MDwould actually4435RBactually be4436VBbe clarifying4437VVGclarify the4438DTthe law4439NNlaw and4440CCand creating4441VVGcreate a4442DTa ...4443:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4444LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Well4445UHwell ,4446,, wait4447VVwait a4448DTa second4449JJsecond ...4450:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4451LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well4452UHwell ,4453,, another4454DTanother reason4455NNreason ...4456:... another4457DTanother reason4458NNreason you4459PPyou may4460MDmay not4461RBnot have4462VHhave said4463VVNsay it4464PPit is4465VBZbe because4466INbecause it4467PPit comes4468VVZcome with4469INwith another4470DTanother flip4471JJflip side4472NNside ,4473,, right4474RBright ?4475SENT? It4476PPit was4477VBDbe a4478DTa motivating4479VVGmotivate factor4480NNfactor ,4481,, but4482CCbut then4483RBthen the4484DTthe defendant4485NNdefendant gets4486VVZget to4487TOto show4488VVshow it4489PPit was4490VBDbe n't4491RBn't ...4492:... the4493DTthe decision4494NNdecision would4495MDwould have4496VHhave been4497VBNbe made4498VVNmake without4499INwithout regard4500NNregard to4501TOto it4502PPit .4503SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4504LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Yeah4505NPYeah ,4506,, but4507RBbut ,4508,, Your4509PP$your Honor4510NPHonor ,4511,, that4512WDTthat would4513MDwould ...4514:... that4515WDTthat happens4516VVZhappen at4517INat the4518DTthe remedial4519JJremedial stage4520NNstage ,4521,, at4522INat the4523DTthe relief4524NNrelief stage4525NNstage .4526SENT. And4527CCand that4528DTthat 's4529VBZbe exactly4530RBexactly our4531PP$our point4532NNpoint ,4533,, is4534VBZbe that4535IN/thatthat ,4536,, at4537INat the4538DTthe relief4539NNrelief stage4540NNstage ,4541,, the4542DTthe defendant4543NNdefendant does4544VVZdo get4545VVget to4546TOto show4547VVshow ...4548:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4549LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] But4550CCbut in4551INin those4552DTthose statutes4553NNSstatute ,4554,, in4555INin that4556DTthat statute4557NNstatute ,4558,, it4559PPit happens4560VVZhappen at4561INat the4562DTthe liability4563NNliability stage4564NNstage ,4565,, and4566CCand I4567PPI read4568VVPread your4569PP$your briefs4570NNSbrief ...4571:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4572LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] No4573RBno ...4574:... no4575UHno ,4576,, Your4577PP$your Honor4578NPHonor ...4579:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4580LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] And4581CCand I4582PPI ...4583:... I4584PPI read4585VVPread your4586PP$your briefs4587NNSbrief ...4588:... yeah4589RByeah ,4590,, in4591INin the4592DTthe statute4593NNstatute ,4594,, I4595PPI understand4596VVPunderstand ...4597:... I4598PPI read4599VVPread your4600PP$your briefs4601NNSbrief to4602TOto reject4603VVreject the4604DTthe motivating4605VVGmotivate factor4606NNfactor or4607CCor not4608RBnot adopt4609VVadopt the4610DTthe motivating4611VVGmotivate factor4612NNfactor standard4613NNstandard .4614SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4615LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] No4616NPNo .4617SENT. Let4618VVlet ...4619:... let4620VVlet me4621PPme be4622VBbe clear4623JJclear because4624INbecause this4625DTthis is4626VBZbe ...4627:... this4628DTthis is4629VBZbe an4630DTan important4631JJimportant point4632NNpoint .4633SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4634LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] The4635DTthe Price4636NPPrice Waterhouse-type4637NPWaterhouse-type standard4638NNstandard that4639IN/thatthat Justice4640NPJustice Breyer4641NPBreyer brought4642VVDbring up4643RPup .4644SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4645LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I4646PPI think4647VVPthink Justice4648NPJustice Breyer4649NPBreyer was4650VBDbe talking4651VVGtalk about4652INabout what4653WPwhat Congress4654NPCongress did4655VVDdo to4656TOto fix4657VVfix the4658DTthe problem4659NNproblem of4660INof Price4661NPPrice Waterhouse4662NPWaterhouse .4663SENT. So4664INso Price4665NPPrice Waterhouse4666NPWaterhouse happens4667VVZhappen .4668SENT. Congress4669NPCongress decides4670VVZdecide that4671IN/thatthat the4672DTthe Price4673NPPrice Waterhouse4674NPWaterhouse test4675NNtest is4676VBZbe insufficiently4677RBinsufficiently protective4678JJprotective of4679INof victims4680NNSvictim .4681SENT. So4682RBso Congress4683NPCongress makes4684VVZmake very4685RBvery clear4686JJclear in4687INin the4688DTthe statute4689NNstatute that4690IN/thatthat there4691EXthere is4692VBZbe a4693DTa violation4694NNviolation of4695INof the4696DTthe statute4697NNstatute ,4698,, there4699EXthere is4700VBZbe liability4701NNliability with4702INwith motivating4703VVGmotivate factor4704NNfactor ,4705,, but4706CCbut if4707INif the4708DTthe employer4709NNemployer can4710MDcan show4711VVshow that4712DTthat ...4713:... that4714IN/thatthat it4715PPit was4716VBDbe n't4717RBn't a4718DTa but-for4719NNbut-for cause4720NNcause ,4721,, that4722WDTthat shrinks4723VVZshrink the4724DTthe number4725NNnumber of4726INof remedies4727NNSremedy that4728WDTthat are4729VBPbe available4730JJavailable to4731TOto you4732PPyou .4733SENT. And4734CCand that4735DTthat 's4736VBZbe essentially4737RBessentially ...4738:... we4739PPwe 're4740VBPbe not4741RBnot saying4742VVGsay that4743DTthat ...4744:... we4745PPwe 're4746VBPbe not4747RBnot trying4748VVGtry to4749TOto ,4750,, like4751VVlike ,4752,, apply4753VVapply different4754JJdifferent statutory4755JJstatutory language4756NNlanguage here4757RBhere ,4758,, but4759CCbut we4760PPwe 're4761VBPbe saying4762VVGsay that4763IN/thatthat our4764PP$our rule4765NNrule ,4766,, the4767DTthe statutory4768JJstatutory language4769NNlanguage that4770IN/thatthat we4771PPwe have4772VHPhave ,4773,, essentially4774RBessentially has4775VHZhave that4776DTthat same4777JJsame test4778NNtest ...4779:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4780LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] But4781CCbut you4782PPyou 're4783VBPbe not4784RBnot asking4785VVGask ...4786:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4787LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] ...4788:... test4789NNtest ...4790:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4791LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Sorry4792JJsorry to4793TOto interrupt4794VVinterrupt .4795SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4796LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right4797NPRight .4798SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4799LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] You4800PPyou 're4801VBPbe not4802RBnot asking4803VVGask for4804INfor "4805``" motivating4806VVGmotivate factor4807NNfactor ;4808:; "4809``" you4810PPyou 're4811VBPbe saying4812VVGsay "4813``" any4814DTany factor4815NNfactor .4816SENT. "4817''" [MR. MARTINEZ]4818LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right4819NPRight ,4820,, but4821CCbut I4822PPI think4823VVPthink the4824DTthe way4825NNway that4826WDTthat ...4827:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4828LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Is4829VBZbe that4830IN/thatthat correct4831JJcorrect ?4832SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]4833LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We4834PPwe ...4835:... we4836PPwe ...4837:... we4838PPwe ...4839:... we4840PPwe do4841VVPdo n't4842RBn't think4843VVthink it4844PPit makes4845VVZmake a4846DTa difference4847NNdifference ,4848,, frankly4849RBfrankly ,4850,, Your4851PP$your Honor4852NPHonor .4853SENT. We4854PPwe ...4855:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4856LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] And4857CCand so4858RBso ,4859,, yes4860UHyes ,4861,, you4862PPyou 're4863VBPbe asking4864VVGask for4865INfor any4866DTany factor4867NNfactor ?4868SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]4869LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We4870PPwe think4871VVPthink "4872``" any4873DTany factor4874NNfactor "4875''" and4876CCand "4877``" motivating4878VVGmotivate factor4879NNfactor "4880``" essentially4881RBessentially mean4882VVmean the4883DTthe same4884JJsame thing4885NNthing because4886INbecause they4887PPthey play4888VVPplay ...4889:... the4890DTthe ...4891:... the4892DTthe factor4893NNfactor plays4894VVZplay into4895INinto the4896DTthe decision4897NNdecision .4898SENT. And4899CCand so4900RBso in4901INin that4902DTthat sense4903NNsense ,4904,, it4905PPit 's4906VBZbe motivating4907VVGmotivate .4908SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]4909LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Counsel4910NPCounsel ,4911,, I4912PPI wanted4913VVDwant to4914TOto give4915VVgive you4916PPyou an4917DTan opportunity4918NNopportunity to4919TOto respond4920VVrespond to4921TOto another4922DTanother argument4923NNargument that4924IN/thatthat concerned4925VVNconcern me4926PPme .4927SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]4928LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Sure4929NPSure .4930SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]4931LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] The4932DTthe Solicitor4933NPSolicitor General4934NPGeneral suggests4935VVZsuggest that4936IN/thatthat if4937INif we4938PPwe were4939VBDbe to4940TOto adopt4941VVadopt your4942PP$your view4943NNview ,4944,, we4945PPwe 'd4946MDwould have4947VHhave to4948TOto do4949VVdo the4950DTthe same4951JJsame thing4952NNthing with4953INwith respect4954NNrespect to4955TOto private4956JJprivate discrimination4957NNdiscrimination under4958INunder ,4959,, what4960WPwhat is4961VBZbe it4962PPit ,4963,, the4964DTthe 6234965CD@card@ ...4966:... [MR. MARTINEZ]4967LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right4968RBright .4969SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]4970LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...4971:... which4972WDTwhich ,4973,, of4974INof course4975NNcourse ,4976,, we4977PPwe can4978MDcan 't4979RB't do4980VVPdo because4981INbecause of4982INof Gross4983NPGross ,4984,, and4985CCand point4986VVPpoint specifically4987RBspecifically to4988TOto the4989DTthe language4990NNlanguage saying4991VVGsay ,4992,, you4993PPyou know4994VVPknow ,4995,, you4996PPyou can4997MDcan 't4998RB't discriminate4999JJdiscriminate in5000INin hiring5001VVGhire or5002CCor otherwise5003RBotherwise ,5004,, right5005RBright ,5006,, discriminate5007JJdiscriminate ...5008:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5009LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right5010RBright .5011SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5012LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...5013:... with5014INwith respect5015NNrespect to5016TOto terms5017NNSterm and5018CCand conditions5019NNScondition of5020INof ...5021:... of5022INof ...5023:... of5024INof employment5025NNemployment .5026SENT. And5027CCand if5028INif we5029PPwe were5030VBDbe to5031TOto adopt5032VVadopt your5033PP$your broad5034JJbroad reading5035NNreading here5036RBhere of5037INof "5038``" discriminate5039JJdiscriminate ,5040,, "5041``" why5042WRBwhy would5043MDwould n't5044RBn't we5045PPwe do5046VVPdo the5047DTthe same5048JJsame thing5049NNthing there5050RBthere ?5051SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]5052LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] So5053INso I5054PPI think5055VVPthink Gross5056NPGross is5057VBZbe totally5058RBtotally different5059JJdifferent ,5060,, and5061CCand just5062RBjust a5063DTa couple5064NNcouple points5065NNSpoint on5066INon this5067DTthis because5068INbecause it5069PPit 's5070VBZbe very5071RBvery important5072JJimportant .5073SENT. Number5074NNnumber one5075CDone ,5076,, Congress5077NPCongress looked5078VVDlook at5079INat that5080DTthat exact5081JJexact language5082NNlanguage when5083WRBwhen it5084PPit was5085VBDbe legislating5086VVGlegislate the5087DTthe statute5088NNstatute that5089WDTthat 's5090VBZbe at5091INat issue5092NNissue in5093INin this5094DTthis case5095NNcase .5096SENT. Congress5097NPCongress rejected5098VVDreject applying5099VVGapply the5100DTthe private5101JJprivate sector5102NNsector language5103NNlanguage from5104INfrom the5105DTthe ADEA5106NPADEA to5107TOto ADEA5108NPADEA federal5109JJfederal sector5110NNsector claims5111NNSclaim .5112SENT. We5113PPwe know5114VVPknow that5115IN/thatthat from5116INfrom the5117DTthe drafting5118VVGdraft history5119NNhistory .5120SENT. We5121PPwe know5122VVPknow that5123IN/thatthat from5124INfrom ...5125:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5126LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I5127PPI ...5128:... I5129PPI understand5130VVPunderstand that5131DTthat ...5132:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5133LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] So5134RBso ...5135:... so5136RBso ...5137:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5138LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...5139:... but5140CCbut that5141DTthat 's5142VBZbe not5143RBnot responsive5144JJresponsive .5145SENT. So5146RBso ...5147:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5148LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right5149RBright .5150SENT. So5151RBso ,5152,, instead5153RBinstead ,5154,, it5155PPit chose5156VVDchoose different5157JJdifferent language5158NNlanguage which5159WDTwhich is5160VBZbe fundamentally5161RBfundamentally different5162JJdifferent from5163INfrom the5164DTthe language5165NNlanguage in5166INin Gross5167NPGross .5168SENT. I5169PPI 'm5170VBPbe going5171VVGgo to5172TOto get5173VVget to5174TOto the5175DTthe discriminate5176JJdiscriminate point5177NNpoint .5178SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5179LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I5180PPI wish5181VVPwish you5182PPyou would5183MDwould .5184SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]5185LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Okay5186NPOkay .5187SENT. I'll5188NPI'll ...5189:... I'll5190NPI'll ...5191:... I5192PPI 'll5193MDwill go5194VVgo to5195TOto the5196DTthe discriminate5197JJdiscriminate point5198NNpoint .5199SENT. If5200INif you5201PPyou look5202VVPlook at5203INat the5204DTthe language5205NNlanguage in5206INin Gross5207NPGross ,5208,, and5209CCand we5210PPwe 've5211VHPhave reproduced5212VVNreproduce it5213PPit in5214INin the5215DTthe addendum5216NNaddendum to5217TOto our5218PP$our reply5219NNreply brief5220NNbrief ,5221,, what5222WDTwhat it5223PPit has5224VHZhave is5225VBZbe it5226PPit talks5227VVZtalk about5228RBabout four5229CDfour different5230JJdifferent specific5231JJspecific types5232NNStype of5233INof adverse5234JJadverse actions5235NNSaction :5236:: Failing5237VVGfail to5238TOto hire5239VVhire ,5240,, refusing5241VVGrefuse to5242TOto ...5243:... failing5244VVGfail to5245TOto hire5246VVhire ,5247,, refusing5248VVGrefuse to5249TOto hire5250VVhire ,5251,, discharging5252VVGdischarge any5253DTany individual5254JJindividual ;5255:; and5256CCand then5257RBthen ,5258,, the5259DTthe fourth5260JJfourth one5261CDone ,5262,, otherwise5263RBotherwise discriminate5264JJdiscriminate with5265INwith respect5266NNrespect to5267TOto terms5268NNSterm ...5269:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5270LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Conditions5271NNScondition .5272SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]5273LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] ...5274:... compensation5275NNcompensation ,5276,, conditions5277NNScondition .5278SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5279LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Yeah5280NPYeah .5281SENT. Yeah5282UHYeah .5283SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]5284LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] The5285DTthe first5286JJfirst three5287CDthree of5288INof those5289DTthose things5290NNSthing are5291VBPbe all5292RBall outcome-based5293JJoutcome-based .5294SENT. The5295DTthe first5296JJfirst three5297CDthree items5298NNSitem in5299INin the5300DTthe list5301NNlist .5302SENT. The5303DTthe fourth5304JJfourth item5305NNitem in5306INin the5307DTthe list5308NNlist is5309VBZbe an5310DTan "5311``" otherwise5312JJotherwise "5313''" clause5314NNclause ,5315,, an5316DTan "5317``" otherwise5318JJotherwise "5319''" sort5320NNsort of5321INof catch-all5322NNcatch-all clause5323NNclause .5324SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5325LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Why5326WRBwhy would5327MDwould n't5328RBn't that5329RBthat be5330VBbe process5331NNprocess too5332RBtoo ,5333,, is5334VBZbe the5335DTthe Solicitor5336NPSolicitor General5337NPGeneral 's5338POS's question5339NNquestion ?5340SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]5341LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Well5342UHwell ...5343:... well5344RBwell ,5345,, the5346DTthe first5347JJfirst three5348CDthree things5349NNSthing are5350VBPbe all5351RBall ...5352:... the5353DTthe first5354JJfirst three5355CDthree in5356INin that5357DTthat list5358NNlist are5359VBPbe all5360RBall outcome-based5361JJoutcome-based .5362SENT. And5363CCand so5364INso what5365WPwhat this5366DTthis Court5367NPCourt has5368VHZhave said5369VVNsay when5370WRBwhen looking5371VVGlook at5372INat very5373RBvery similar5374JJsimilar "5375``" otherwise5376JJotherwise "5377''" catch-all5378NNcatch-all clauses5379NNSclause ,5380,, it5381PPit 's5382VHZhave applied5383VVNapply the5384DTthe ejusdem5385JJejusdem generis5386NPgeneris canon5387NNcanon and5388CCand said5389VVDsay that5390IN/thatthat when5391WRBwhen you5392PPyou have5393VHPhave things5394NNSthing in5395INin a5396DTa list5397NNlist like5398INlike that5399DTthat ,5400,, the5401DTthe last5402JJlast item5403NNitem with5404INwith the5405DTthe "5406``" otherwise5407RBotherwise "5408''" ...5409:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5410LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] So5411RBso ...5412:... so5413RBso the5414DTthe word5415NNword "5416``" discriminate5417JJdiscriminate "5418''" here5419RBhere means5420VVZmean something5421NNsomething different5422JJdifferent than5423INthan the5424DTthe word5425NNword "5426``" discriminate5427JJdiscriminate "5428''" there5429RBthere .5430SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]5431LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I5432PPI think5433VVPthink the5434DTthe word5435NNword "5436``" discriminate5437JJdiscriminate "5438''" here5439RBhere needs5440VVZneed to5441TOto be5442VBbe read5443VVNread in5444INin the5445DTthe context5446NNcontext of5447INof the5448DTthe broader5449JJRbroad phrase5450NNphrase .5451SENT. The5452DTthe other5453JJother contextual5454JJcontextual difference5455NNdifference is5456VBZbe that5457IN/thatthat our5458PP$our statute5459NNstatute ,5460,, unlike5461INunlike the5462DTthe statute5463NNstatute in5464INin Gross5465NPGross ,5466,, has5467VHZhave the5468DTthe most5469RBSmost important5470JJimportant textual5471JJtextual indicator5472NNindicator that5473WDTthat comes5474VVZcome ...5475:... makes5476VVZmake this5477DTthis case5478NNcase come5479VVcome out5480RPout our5481PP$our way5482NNway ,5483,, which5484WDTwhich is5485VBZbe the5486DTthe "5487``" shall5488MDshall be5489VBbe made5490VVNmake free5491JJfree from5492INfrom "5493``" language5494NNlanguage .5495SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5496LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] No5497NPNo ,5498,, I5499PPI understand5500VVPunderstand that5501RBthat .5502SENT. But5503CCbut the5504DTthe "5505``" otherwise5506RBotherwise discriminate5507JJdiscriminate ,5508,, "5509''" what5510WPwhat ...5511:... you5512PPyou 've5513VHPhave got5514VVNget the5515DTthe ejusdem5516JJejusdem generis5517NPgeneris canon5518NNcanon .5519SENT. Excellent5520JJexcellent canon5521NNcanon ,5522,, good5523JJgood canon5524NNcanon .5525SENT. The5526DTthe other5527JJother ...5528:... the5529DTthe other5530JJother kind5531NNkind of5532INof general5533JJgeneral rule5534NNrule is5535VBZbe when5536WRBwhen Congress5537NPCongress makes5538VVZmake a5539DTa distinction5540NNdistinction ,5541,, we5542PPwe should5543MDshould attend5544VVattend to5545TOto the5546DTthe ...5547:... in5548INin language5549NNlanguage ,5550,, we5551PPwe should5552MDshould attend5553VVattend to5554TOto it5555PPit .5556SENT. And5557CCand ...5558:... and5559CCand ...5560:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5561LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] We5562PPwe could5563MDcould n't5564RBn't agree5565VVagree ...5566:... we5567PPwe could5568MDcould n't5569RBn't agree5570VVagree more5571RBRmore .5572SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5573LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] And5574CCand I5575PPI understand5576VVPunderstand ...5577:... I5578PPI know5579VVPknow where5580WRBwhere you5581PPyou 're5582VBPbe going5583VVGgo with5584INwith that5585DTthat ,5586,, and5587CCand that5588WDTthat 's5589VBZbe good5590JJgood ,5591,, that5592WDTthat 's5593VBZbe a5594DTa good5595JJgood point5596NNpoint ...5597:... [5598SYM[ LAUGHTER5599NNlaughter ]5600SYM] [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5601LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...5602:... but5603CCbut "5604``" or5605CCor otherwise5606RBotherwise discriminate5607JJdiscriminate "5608''" ...5609:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5610LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Yeah5611NPYeah .5612SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5613LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...5614:... is5615VBZbe ...5616:... is5617VBZbe very5618RBvery ...5619:... I5620PPI mean5621VVPmean ,5622,, that5623WDTthat ...5624:... that5625WDTthat seems5626VVZseem to5627TOto be5628VBbe a5629DTa catch-all5630NNcatch-all .5631SENT. That5632DTthat seems5633VVZseem to5634TOto be5635VBbe anything5636NNanything .5637SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]5638LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I5639PPI think5640VVPthink I5641PPI would5642MDwould resist5643VVresist that5644IN/thatthat one5645CDone because5646INbecause of5647INof ejusdem5648NPejusdem generis5649NPgeneris .5650SENT. The5651DTthe second5652JJsecond point5653NNpoint ,5654,, textually5655RBtextually ...5656:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5657LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] You5658PPyou think5659VVPthink you5660PPyou would5661MDwould have5662VHhave resisted5663VVNresist that5664IN/thatthat before5665INbefore Gross5666NPGross ?5667SENT? [MR. MARTINEZ]5668LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I5669PPI ...5670:... you5671PPyou know5672VVPknow ,5673,, Your5674PP$your Honor5675NPHonor ,5676,, we5677PPwe 're5678VBPbe not5679RBnot here5680RBhere to5681TOto relitigate5682JJrelitigate Gross5683NPGross .5684SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5685LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] No5686NPNo .5687SENT. [MR. MARTINEZ]5688LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I5689PPI ...5690:... I5691PPI think5692VVPthink this5693DTthis ...5694:... Gross5695NPGross was5696VBDbe a5697DTa very5698RBvery closely5699RBclosely decided5700VVNdecide decision5701NNdecision .5702SENT. You5703PPyou know5704VVPknow ,5705,, it5706PPit was5707VBDbe ...5708:... it5709PPit was5710VBDbe a5711DTa very5712RBvery closely5713RBclosely divided5714VVNdivide Court5715NPCourt on5716INon Gross5717NPGross .5718SENT. We5719PPwe 're5720VBPbe not5721RBnot here5722RBhere to5723TOto ...5724:... we're5725NNwe're ...5726:... we5727PPwe 're5728VBPbe here5729RBhere to5730TOto make5731VVmake the5732DTthe point5733NNpoint that5734IN/thatthat what5735WPwhat Gross5736NPGross said5737VVDsay was5738VBDbe that5739IN/thatthat you5740PPyou need5741VVPneed to5742TOto look5743VVlook at5744INat the5745DTthe statutory5746JJstatutory language5747NNlanguage with5748INwith careful5749JJcareful attention5750NNattention ...5751:... careful5752JJcareful and5753CCand critical5754JJcritical examination5755NNexamination .5756SENT. And5757CCand this5758DTthis is5759VBZbe ...5760:... this5761DTthis is5762VBZbe a5763DTa quote5764NNquote from5765INfrom Gross5766NPGross ,5767,, you5768PPyou can5769MDcan 't5770RB't apply5771VVapply rules5772NNSrule applicable5773JJapplicable under5774INunder one5775CDone statute5776NNstatute to5777TOto a5778DTa different5779JJdifferent statute5780NNstatute without5781INwithout really5782RBreally looking5783VVGlook carefully5784RBcarefully ...5785:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]5786LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] But5787CCbut the5788DTthe ...5789:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5790LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] ...5791:... and5792CCand here5793RBhere the5794DTthe "5795``" otherwise5796RBotherwise discriminate5797JJdiscriminate "5798''" clause5799NNclause is5800VBZbe limited5801VVNlimit by5802INby "5803``" with5804INwith respect5805NNrespect to5806TOto terms5807NNSterm ,5808,, conditions5809NNScondition ,5810,, "5811''" et5812NPet cetera5813NPcetera .5814SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]5815LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] That5816DTthat 's5817VBZbe not5818RBnot ...5819:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5820LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] So5821INso it5822PPit 's5823VBZbe very5824RBvery narrow5825JJnarrow .5826SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]5827LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...5828:... limiting5829VVGlimit ;5830:; that5831WDTthat 's5832VBZbe broadening5833VVGbroaden language5834NNlanguage .5835SENT. That's5836NPThat's ...5837:... that5838WDTthat 's5839VBZbe supposed5840VVNsuppose to5841TOto be5842VBbe a5843DTa catch-all5844NNcatch-all phrase5845NNphrase at5846INat the5847DTthe end5848NNend that5849WDTthat will5850MDwill cover5851VVcover anything5852NNanything .5853SENT. "5854``" Otherwise5855RBotherwise discriminate5856JJdiscriminate against5857INagainst anything5858NNanything dealing5859VVGdeal with5860INwith compensation5861NNcompensation terms5862NNSterm or5863CCor conditions5864NNScondition .5865SENT. "5866''" The5867DTthe word5868NNword "5869''" conditions5870NNScondition ,5871,, "5872''" in5873INin particular5874JJparticular ,5875,, in5876INin the5877DTthe lower5878JJRlow courts5879NNScourt has5880VHZhave been5881VBNbe interpreted5882VVNinterpret very5883RBvery broadly5884RBbroadly to5885TOto cover5886VVcover all5887DTall sorts5888NNSsort of5889INof ...5890:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5891LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] Right5892RBright .5893SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]5894LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...5895:... aspects5896NNSaspect ,5897,, whereas5898INwhereas here5899RBhere you5900PPyou just5901RBjust have5902VHPhave "5903``" actions5904NNSaction ,5905,, "5906''" so5907RBso if5908INif you5909PPyou 're5910VBPbe comparing5911VVGcompare the5912DTthe two5913CDtwo statutes5914NNSstatute ,5915,, to5916TOto pick5917VVpick up5918RPup on5919INon Justice5920NPJustice Gorsuch5921NPGorsuch 's5922POS's point5923NNpoint ,5924,, I5925PPI would5926MDwould have5927VHhave thought5928VVNthink a5929DTa broader5930JJRbroad scope5931NNscope ,5932,, if5933INif anything5934NNanything ,5935,, was5936VBDbe in5937INin that5938DTthat language5939NNlanguage ...5940:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5941LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I5942PPI ...5943:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]5944LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...5945:... in5946INin terms5947NNSterm of5948INof ...5949:... [MR. MARTINEZ]5950LOC[MR. MARTINEZ] I5951PPI think5952VVPthink the5953DTthe word5954NNword "5955``" discrimination5956NNdiscrimination "5957''" sometimes5958RBsometimes can5959MDcan take5960VVtake on5961INon different5962JJdifferent meanings5963NNSmeaning depending5964VVGdepend on5965INon the5966DTthe context5967NNcontext .5968SENT. The5969DTthe most5970RBSmost important5971JJimportant textual5972JJtextual ...5973:... the5974DTthe textual5975JJtextual clue5976NNclue is5977VBZbe the5978DTthe absence5979NNabsence of5980INof the5981DTthe key5982JJkey phrase5983NNphrase "5984''" shall5985MDshall be5986VBbe made5987VVNmake free5988RBfree from5989INfrom discrimination5990NNdiscrimination .5991SENT. "5992``" The5993DTthe most5994RBSmost important5995JJimportant historical5996JJhistorical clue5997NNclue is5998VBZbe that5999IN/thatthat ,6000,, unlike6001INunlike the6002DTthe statute6003NNstatute in6004INin Gross6005NPGross ,6006,, this6007DTthis statute6008NNstatute arises6009VVZarise in6010INin a6011DTa context6012NNcontext in6013INin which6014WDTwhich Congress6015NPCongress wanted6016VVDwant to6017TOto address6018VVaddress the6019DTthe constitutional6020JJconstitutional rule6021NNrule ,6022,, wanted6023VVDwant to6024TOto plug6025VVplug the6026DTthe gap6027NNgap in6028INin remedies6029NNSremedy ,6030,, and6031CCand ...6032:... and6033CCand make6034VVmake sure6035RBsure that6036DTthat ...6037:... that6038IN/thatthat victims6039NNSvictim of6040INof unconstitutional6041JJunconstitutional discrimination6042NNdiscrimination had6043VHDhave a6044DTa viable6045JJviable remedy6046NNremedy .6047SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6048LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank6049VVthank you6050PPyou ,6051,, counsel6052NNcounsel .6053SENT. General6054NPGeneral Francisco6055NPFrancisco .6056SENT.