[MS. KARLAN]27LOC[MS. KARLAN] Thank28VVthank you29PPyou ,30,, Mr31NPMr .32SENT. Chief33NPChief Justice34NPJustice ,35,, and36CCand may37MDmay it38PPit please39VVplease the40DTthe Court41NPCourt :42:: When43WRBwhen a44DTa employer45NNemployer fires46VVZfire a47DTa male48JJmale employee49NNemployee for50INfor dating51VVGdate men52NNSman but53CCbut does54VVZdo not55RBnot fire56VVfire female57JJfemale employees58NNSemployee who59WPwho date60VVPdate men61NNSman ,62,, he63PPhe violates64VVZviolate Title65NPTitle VII66NPVII .67SENT. The68DTthe employer69NNemployer has70VHZhave ,71,, in72INin the73DTthe words74NNSword of75INof Section76NPSection 70377CD@card@ (78(( a79DTa )80)) ,81,, discriminated82VVNdiscriminate against83INagainst the84DTthe man85NNman because86INbecause he87PPhe treats88VVZtreat that89DTthat man90NNman worse91JJRbad than92INthan women93NNSwoman who94WPwho want95VVPwant to96TOto do97VVdo the98DTthe same99JJsame thing100NNthing .101SENT. And102CCand that103DTthat discrimination104NNdiscrimination is105VBZbe because106INbecause of107INof sex108NNsex ,109,, again110RBagain in111INin the112DTthe words113NNSword of114INof Section115NPSection 703116CD@card@ (117(( a118DTa )119)) ,120,, because121INbecause the122DTthe adverse123JJadverse employment124NNemployment action125NNaction is126VBZbe based127VVNbase on128INon the129DTthe male130JJmale employee131NNemployee 's132POS's failure133NNfailure to134TOto conform135VVconform to136TOto a137DTa particular138JJparticular expectation139NNexpectation about140INabout how141WRBhow men142NNSman should143MDshould behave144VVbehave ;145:; namely146RBnamely ,147,, that148IN/thatthat men149NNSman should150MDshould be151VBbe attracted152VVNattract only153RBonly to154TOto women155NNSwoman and156CCand not157RBnot to158TOto men159NNSman .160SENT. There161EXthere is162VBZbe no163DTno analytic164JJanalytic difference165NNdifference between166INbetween this167DTthis kind168NNkind of169INof discrimination170NNdiscrimination and171CCand forms172NNSform of173INof discrimination174NNdiscrimination that175WDTthat have176VHPhave been177VBNbe already178RBalready recognized179VVNrecognize by180INby every181DTevery court182NNcourt to183TOto have184VHhave addressed185VVNaddress them186PPthem .187SENT. For188INfor example189NNexample ,190,, discrimination191NNdiscrimination against192INagainst men193NNSman who194WPwho are195VBPbe effeminate196JJeffeminate rather197RBrather than198INthan macho199NNmacho .200SENT. Like201INlike the202DTthe discrimination203NNdiscrimination here204RBhere ,205,, that206IN/thatthat discrimination207NNdiscrimination is208VBZbe because209INbecause of210INof non-conformity211NNnon-conformity with212INwith an213DTan expectation214NNexpectation about215INabout how216WRBhow men217NNSman should218MDshould behave219VVbehave .220SENT. The221DTthe attempt222NNattempt to223TOto carve224VVcarve out225RPout discrimination226NNdiscrimination against227INagainst men228NNSman for229INfor being230VBGbe gay231JJgay from232INfrom Title233NPTitle VII234NPVII cannot235MDcan be236VBbe administered237VVNadminister with238INwith either239DTeither consistency240NNconsistency or241CCor integrity242NNintegrity .243SENT. In244INin the245DTthe words246NNSword of247INof the248DTthe en249NNen banc250NNbanc Second251NPSecond Circuit252NPCircuit ,253,, it254PPit forces255VVZforce judges256NNSjudge to257TOto result258VVresult ...259:... resort260NNresort to261TOto lexical262JJlexical bean263NNbean counting264NNcounting where265WRBwhere they266PPthey count267VVPcount up268RPup the269DTthe frequency270NNfrequency of271INof epithets272NNSepithet ,273,, such274JJsuch as275INas "276``" fag277NNfag ,278,, "279''" "280``" gay281JJgay ,282,, "283''" "284``" queer285JJqueer ,286,, "287''" "288``" real289JJreal man290NNman ,291,, "292''" and293CCand "294``" fem295NNfem ,296,, "297''" to298TOto determine299VVdetermine whether300INwhether or301CCor not302RBnot discrimination303NNdiscrimination is304VBZbe based305VVNbase on306INon sex307NNsex or308CCor sexual309JJsexual orientation310NNorientation .311SENT. That312DTthat attempt313NNattempt is314VBZbe futile315JJfutile because316INbecause when317WRBwhen a318DTa man319NNman is320VBZbe discriminated321VVNdiscriminate against322INagainst for323INfor being324VBGbe gay325JJgay ,326,, he327PPhe is328VBZbe discriminated329VVNdiscriminate against330INagainst for331INfor not332RBnot conforming333VVGconform to334TOto an335DTan expectation336NNexpectation about337INabout how338WRBhow men339NNSman should340MDshould behave341VVbehave .342SENT. Finally343RBfinally ,344,, the345DTthe possibility346NNpossibility that347IN/thatthat some348DTsome employers349NNSemployer ,350,, but351CCbut not352RBnot the353DTthe employers354NNSemployer here355RBhere ,356,, may357MDmay have358VHhave policies359NNSpolicy of360INof denying361VVGdeny employment362NNemployment opportunities363NNSopportunity both364CCboth to365TOto gay366JJgay men367NNSman and368CCand to369TOto lesbians370NNSlesbian does371VVZdo not372RBnot change373VVchange the374DTthe unlawfulness375NNunlawfulness of376INof what377WPwhat was378VBDbe alleged379VVNallege by380INby the381DTthe employees382NNSemployee here383RBhere .384SENT. Labeling385VVGlabel those386DTthose policies387NNSpolicy under388INunder an389DTan umbrella390NNumbrella phrase391NNphrase like392INlike "393``" sexual394JJsexual orientation395NNorientation discrimination396NNdiscrimination "397``" cannot398MDcan hide399VVhide the400DTthe fact401NNfact that402IN/thatthat such403PDTsuch an404DTan employer405NNemployer is406VBZbe a407DTa double408JJdouble discriminator409NNdiscriminator .410SENT. It411PPit discriminates412VVZdiscriminate against413INagainst men414NNSman who415WPwho do416VVPdo not417RBnot conform418VVconform to419TOto a420DTa male421JJmale stereotype422NNstereotype ,423,, and424CCand it425PPit discriminates426VVZdiscriminate against427INagainst women428NNSwoman who429WPwho do430VVPdo not431RBnot conform432VVconform to433TOto an434DTan expectation435NNexpectation about436INabout female437JJfemale ...438:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]439LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Ms440NNMs .441SENT. Karlan442NPKarlan ...443:... Ms444NNMs .445SENT. Karlan446NPKarlan ,447,, how448WRBhow do449VVPdo you450PPyou answer451VVanswer the452DTthe argument453NNargument that454IN/thatthat back455RBback in456INin 1964457CD@card@ ,458,, this459DTthis could460MDcould not461RBnot have462VHhave been463VBNbe in464INin Congress465NPCongress 's466POS's mind467NNmind because468INbecause in469INin ...470:... in471INin many472JJmany states473NNSstate male474JJmale same-sex475NNsame-sex relations476NNSrelation was477VBDbe a478DTa criminal479JJcriminal offense480NNoffense ;481:; the482DTthe American483JJAmerican Psychiatric484JJpsychiatric Association485NNassociation labeled486VVDlabel homosexuality487NNhomosexuality a488DTa ...489:... a490DTa mental491JJmental illness492NNillness ?493SENT? [MS. KARLAN]494LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well495UHwell ,496,, I497PPI think498VVPthink you499PPyou read500VVPread the501DTthe words502NNSword of503INof the504DTthe statute505NNstatute .506SENT. And507CCand this508DTthis Court509NPCourt has510VHZhave recognized511VVNrecognize again512RBagain and513CCand again514RBagain forms515NNSform of516INof sex517NNsex discrimination518NNdiscrimination that519WDTthat were520VBDbe not521RBnot in522INin Congress523NPCongress 's524POS's contemplation525NNcontemplation in526INin 1964527CD@card@ .528SENT. In529INin 1964530CD@card@ ,531,, those532DTthose were533VBDbe the534DTthe days535NNSday of536INof Mad537JJmad Men538NNSman ,539,, so540RBso the541DTthe idea542NNidea that543IN/thatthat sexual544JJsexual harassment545NNharassment would546MDwould have547VHhave been548VBNbe reached549VVNreach ,550,, most551JJSmost courts552NNScourt did553VVDdo n't554RBn't find555VVfind sexual556JJsexual harassment557NNharassment to558TOto be559VBbe actionable560JJactionable until561INuntil this562DTthis Court563NPCourt did564VVDdo .565SENT. In566INin Price567NPPrice Waterhouse568NPWaterhouse ,569,, this570DTthis Court571NPCourt recognized572VVDrecognize that573DTthat discrimination574NNdiscrimination against575INagainst a576DTa woman577NNwoman who578WPwho cursed579VVDcurse like580INlike a581DTa sailor582NNsailor ,583,, walked584VVDwalk like585INlike a586DTa man587NNman ,588,, and589CCand did590VVDdo n't591RBn't wear592VVwear makeup593NNmakeup was594VBDbe reachable595JJreachable under596INunder Title597NPTitle VII598NPVII .599SENT. If600INif you601PPyou had602VHDhave asked603VVNask members604NNSmember of605INof Congress606NPCongress then607RBthen what608WPwhat they609PPthey had610VHDhave thought611VVNthink ,612,, they613PPthey would614MDwould not615RBnot have616VHhave been617VBNbe thinking618VVGthink about619INabout women620NNSwoman like621INlike Ann622NPAnn Hopkins623NPHopkins .624SENT. They625PPthey ...626:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]627LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] How628WRBHow do629VVPdo you630PPyou ...631:... do632VVPdo you633PPyou agree634VVPagree or635CCor disagree636VVPdisagree with637INwith Judge638NPJudge Posner639NPPosner 's640POS's statement641NNstatement that642IN/thatthat the643DTthe statute644NNstatute should645MDshould be646VBbe read647VVNread to648TOto encompass649VVencompass sexual650JJsexual orientation651NNorientation discrimination652NNdiscrimination to653TOto "654``" avoid655VVavoid placing656VVGplace the657DTthe entire658JJentire burden659NNburden of660INof updating661VVGupdate old662JJold statutes663NNSstatute on664INon the665DTthe legislative666JJlegislative branch667NNbranch "668''" ?669SENT? [MS. KARLAN]670LOC[MS. KARLAN] I671PPI disagree672VVPdisagree with673INwith Judge674NPJudge Posner675NPPosner .676SENT. I677PPI do678VVPdo n't679RBn't think680VVthink you681PPyou need682VVPneed to683TOto do684VVdo any685DTany updating686VVGupdate here687RBhere .688SENT. I689PPI think690VVPthink you691PPyou should692MDshould read693VVread the694DTthe words695NNSword as696INas they697PPthey were698VBDbe understood699VVNunderstand then700RBthen ,701,, which702WDTwhich is703VBZbe men704NNSman and705CCand women706NNSwoman .707SENT. Title708NPTitle VII709NPVII was710VBDbe intended711VVNintend to712TOto make713VVmake sure714JJsure that715IN/thatthat men716NNSman were717VBDbe not718RBnot disadvantaged719VVNdisadvantage relative720JJrelative to721TOto women722NNSwoman and723CCand women724NNSwoman were725VBDbe not726RBnot disadvantaged727VVNdisadvantage relative728JJrelative to729TOto men730NNSman .731SENT. And732CCand when733WRBwhen you734PPyou tell735VVPtell two736CDtwo employees737NNSemployee who738WPwho come739VVPcome in740INin ,741,, both742CCboth of743INof whom744WPwhom tell745VVPtell you746PPyou they747PPthey married748VVDmarry their749PP$their partner750NNpartner Bill751NPBill last752JJlast weekend753NNweekend ,754,, when755WRBwhen you756PPyou fire757VVfire the758DTthe male759JJmale employee760NNemployee who761WPwho married762VVDmarry Bill763NPBill and764CCand you765PPyou give766VVPgive the767DTthe female768JJfemale employee769NNemployee who770WPwho married771VVDmarry Bill772NPBill a773DTa couple774NNcouple of775INof days776NNSday off777INoff so778RBso she779PPshe can780MDcan celebrate781VVcelebrate the782DTthe joyous783JJjoyous event784NNevent ,785,, that786WDTthat 's787VBZbe discrimination788NNdiscrimination because789INbecause of790INof sex791NNsex .792SENT. Well793UHwell ,794,, if795INif no796DTno one797CDone has798VHZhave any799DTany further800JJRfurther questions801NNSquestion ,802,, I803PPI 'll804MDwill reserve805VVreserve the806DTthe remainder807NNremainder of808INof my809PP$my time810NNtime for811INfor rebuttal812NNrebuttal .813SENT. [814SYM[ LAUGHTER815NNlaughter ]816SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]817LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well818UHwell ,819,, I820PPI think821VVPthink we822PPwe 'll823MDwill have824VHhave further825JJRfurther questions826NNSquestion .827SENT. [828SYM[ LAUGHTER829NNlaughter ]830SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]831LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] What832WPWhat do833VVPdo you834PPyou do835VVPdo with836INwith the837DTthe argument838NNargument that839IN/thatthat this840DTthis is841VBZbe a842DTa non-discriminatory843JJnon-discriminatory policy844NNpolicy because845INbecause it846PPit applies847VVZapply equally848RBequally to849TOto relationships850NNSrelationship between851INbetween women852NNSwoman and853CCand relationships854NNSrelationship between855INbetween men856NNSman ?857SENT? In858INin other859JJother words860NNSword ,861,, your862PP$your friends863NNSfriend on864INon the865DTthe ...866:... or867CCor ...868:... or869CCor you870PPyou emphasize871VVPemphasize that872IN/thatthat you873PPyou need874VVPneed to875TOto know876VVknow the877DTthe sex878NNsex of879INof the880DTthe individuals881NNSindividual involved882VVNinvolve before883INbefore you884PPyou can885MDcan determine886VVdetermine whether887INwhether or888CCor not889RBnot there890EXthere 's891VBZbe a892DTa violation893NNviolation and894CCand that895DTthat that896WDTthat brings897VVZbring it898PPit within899INwithin Title900NPTitle VII901NPVII .902SENT. But903CCbut what904WPwhat about905INabout the906DTthe response907NNresponse that908IN/thatthat you909PPyou do910VVPdo not911RBnot need912VVneed to913TOto know914VVknow the915DTthe sex916NNsex of917INof the918DTthe people919NNSpeople involved920VVNinvolve ;921:; you922PPyou just923RBjust can924MDcan have925VHhave a926DTa policy927NNpolicy against928INagainst same929JJsame sex930NNsex ?931SENT? So932RBso you933PPyou do934VVPdo n't935RBn't care936VVcare whether937INwhether the938DTthe participants939NNSparticipant are940VBPbe women941NNSwoman or942CCor men943NNSman .944SENT. If945INif they946PPthey 're947VBPbe the948DTthe same949JJsame ,950,, then951RBthen that952DTthat 's953VBZbe covered954VVNcover by955INby the956DTthe policy957NNpolicy .958SENT. [MS. KARLAN]959LOC[MS. KARLAN] I960PPI think961VVPthink that962WDTthat 's963VBZbe no964RBno different965JJdifferent than966INthan having967VHGhave a968DTa policy969NNpolicy that970WDTthat says971VVZsay everyone972NNeveryone should973MDshould comply974VVcomply with975INwith the976DTthe stereotype977NNstereotype applicable978JJapplicable to979TOto their980PP$their sex981NNsex .982SENT. And983CCand if984INif I985PPI can986MDcan use987VVuse an988DTan example989NNexample from990INfrom the991DTthe Court992NPCourt 's993POS's prior994JJprior cases995NNScase ,996,, for997INfor example998NNexample ,999,, in1000INin Dothard1001NPDothard against1002INagainst Rawlinson1003NPRawlinson ,1004,, the1005DTthe policy1006NNpolicy on1007INon its1008PP$its face1009NNface said1010VVDsay you1011PPyou cannot1012MDcan guard1013VVguard someone1014NNsomeone of1015INof the1016DTthe opposite1017JJopposite sex1018NNsex .1019SENT. So1020INso a1021DTa woman1022NNwoman who1023WPwho seeks1024VVZseek to1025TOto guard1026VVguard a1027DTa man1028NNman is1029VBZbe barred1030VVNbar from1031INfrom that1032DTthat job1033NNjob ;1034:; a1035DTa man1036NNman who1037WPwho seeks1038VVZseek to1039TOto guard1040VVguard a1041DTa woman1042NNwoman is1043VBZbe barred1044VVNbar from1045INfrom that1046DTthat job1047NNjob .1048SENT. Just1049RBjust put1050VVNput in1051INin ,1052,, instead1053RBinstead of1054INof the1055DTthe word1056NNword "1057``" guard1058NNguard ,1059,, "1060''" "1061``" date1062NNdate "1063''" and1064CCand you1065PPyou get1066VVPget the1067DTthe same1068JJsame kind1069NNkind of1070INof rule1071NNrule here1072RBhere ,1073,, which1074WDTwhich is1075VBZbe a1076DTa man1077NNman who1078WPwho wants1079VVZwant to1080TOto date1081VVdate a1082DTa man1083NNman can1084MDcan 't1085RB't do1086VVdo it1087PPit but1088CCbut a1089DTa woman1090NNwoman can1091MDcan ,1092,, and1093CCand a1094DTa woman1095NNwoman who1096WPwho wants1097VVZwant to1098TOto date1099VVdate a1100DTa woman1101NNwoman can1102MDcan 't1103RB't do1104VVdo it1105PPit ...1106:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1107LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] But1108CCbut there1109EXthere 's1110VBZbe ,1111,, Ms1112NNMs ...1113:... .1114SENT. [MS. KARLAN]1115LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...1116:... but1117CCbut a1118DTa man1119NNman can1120MDcan .1121SENT. They1122PPthey are1123VBPbe two1124CDtwo forms1125NNSform of1126INof discrimination1127NNdiscrimination .1128SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1129LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Ms1130NNMs .1131SENT. Karlan1132NPKarlan ,1133,, there1134EXthere 's1135VBZbe quite1136RBquite a1137DTa difference1138NNdifference .1139SENT. In1140INin the1141DTthe Dothard1142NPDothard case1143NNcase ,1144,, it1145PPit was1146VBDbe the1147DTthe disparate1148JJdisparate impact1149NNimpact .1150SENT. There1151EXthere are1152VBPbe many1153JJmany more1154JJRmore male1155JJmale prisoners1156NNSprisoner to1157TOto guard1158VVguard than1159INthan females1160NNSfemale .1161SENT. So1162INso that1163DTthat policy1164NNpolicy ,1165,, even1166RBeven though1167INthough it1168PPit applied1169VVDapply to1170TOto men1171NNSman guarding1172VVGguard women1173NNSwoman ,1174,, it1175PPit had1176VHDhave a1177DTa disproportionate1178JJdisproportionate effect1179NNeffect on1180INon women1181NNSwoman who1182WPwho wanted1183VVDwant to1184TOto be1185VBbe guards1186NNSguard because1187INbecause there1188EXthere were1189VBDbe many1190JJmany more1191JJRmore jobs1192NNSjob guarding1193VVGguard male1194JJmale prisoners1195NNSprisoner than1196INthan female1197JJfemale prisoners1198NNSprisoner .1199SENT. [MS. KARLAN]1200LOC[MS. KARLAN] Justice1201NPJustice Ginsburg1202NPGinsburg ,1203,, the1204DTthe part1205NNpart of1206INof Dothard1207NPDothard against1208INagainst Rawlinson1209NPRawlinson that1210WDTthat rested1211VVDrest on1212INon disparate1213JJdisparate impact1214NNimpact was1215VBDbe the1216DTthe height1217NNheight and1218CCand weight1219NNweight requirements1220NNSrequirement .1221SENT. The1222DTthe requirement1223NNrequirement about1224INabout guarding1225VVGguard the1226DTthe opposite1227JJopposite sex1228NNsex was1229VBDbe not1230RBnot a1231DTa disparate1232JJdisparate impact1233NNimpact .1234SENT. At1235INat most1236JJSmost ,1237,, the1238DTthe Court1239NPCourt noted1240VVDnote in1241INin a1242DTa footnote1243NNfootnote along1244INalong the1245DTthe way1246NNway that1247IN/thatthat there1248EXthere were1249VBDbe more1250JJRmore guard1251NNguard positions1252NNSposition available1253JJavailable to1254TOto men1255NNSman ,1256,, but1257CCbut it1258PPit was1259VBDbe not1260RBnot a1261DTa disparate1262JJdisparate impact1263NNimpact case1264NNcase .1265SENT. It1266PPit was1267VBDbe a1268DTa disparate1269JJdisparate treatment1270NNtreatment case1271NNcase .1272SENT. And1273CCand so1274RBso a1275DTa male1276JJmale person1277NNperson who1278WPwho had1279VHDhave wanted1280VVNwant to1281TOto guard1282VVguard someone1283NNsomeone at1284INat the1285DTthe Julia1286NPJulia Tutwiler1287NPTutwiler prison1288NNprison ,1289,, the1290DTthe prison1291NNprison for1292INfor women1293NNSwoman in1294INin Alabama1295NPAlabama ,1296,, would1297MDwould have1298VHhave had1299VHNhave a1300DTa claim1301NNclaim that1302IN/thatthat he1303PPhe had1304VHDhave been1305VBNbe discriminated1306VVNdiscriminate against1307INagainst because1308INbecause of1309INof sex1310NNsex .1311SENT. Now1312RBnow ,1313,, he1314PPhe would1315MDwould have1316VHhave lost1317VVNlose that1318DTthat claim1319NNclaim but1320CCbut on1321INon BFOQ1322NPBFOQ grounds1323NNSground ,1324,, not1325RBnot on1326INon because1327INbecause of1328INof sex1329NNsex grounds1330NNSground .1331SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1332LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] What1333WPWhat do1334VVPdo you1335PPyou do1336VVPdo with1337INwith the1338DTthe ...1339:... the1340DTthe example1341NNexample that1342WDTthat was1343VBDbe brought1344VVNbring up1345RPup that1346IN/thatthat ,1347,, unlike1348INunlike race1349NNrace ,1350,, there1351EXthere are1352VBPbe certain1353JJcertain distinctions1354NNSdistinction that1355WDTthat are1356VBPbe not1357RBnot only1358RBonly permitted1359VVNpermit but1360CCbut maybe1361RBmaybe even1362RBeven required1363VVNrequire between1364INbetween males1365NNSmale and1366CCand females1367NNSfemale ,1368,, like1369INlike physical1370JJphysical fitness1371NNfitness tests1372NNStest ?1373SENT? [MS. KARLAN]1374LOC[MS. KARLAN] So1375INso those1376DTthose ...1377:... I1378PPI want1379VVPwant to1380TOto answer1381VVanswer that1382DTthat question1383NNquestion in1384INin two1385CDtwo parts1386NNSpart .1387SENT. The1388DTthe first1389JJfirst is1390VBZbe to1391TOto notice1392VVnotice that1393IN/thatthat in1394INin those1395DTthose cases1396NNScase ,1397,, there1398EXthere is1399VBZbe no1400DTno question1401NNquestion there1402EXthere 's1403VBZbe a1404DTa differential1405NNdifferential between1406INbetween men1407NNSman and1408CCand women1409NNSwoman ;1410:; that1411WDTthat is1412VBZbe ,1413,, men1414NNSman and1415CCand women1416NNSwoman are1417VBPbe being1418VBGbe treated1419VVNtreat differently1420RBdifferently .1421SENT. What1422WPWhat is1423VBZbe at1424INat issue1425NNissue there1426EXthere is1427VBZbe whether1428INwhether that1429DTthat differential1430JJdifferential treatment1431NNtreatment constitutes1432VVZconstitute unlawful1433JJunlawful discrimination1434NNdiscrimination under1435INunder Title1436NPTitle VII1437NPVII .1438SENT. So1439RBso ,1440,, for1441INfor example1442NNexample ,1443,, in1444INin Johnson1445NPJohnson against1446INagainst Santa1447NPSanta Clara1448NPClara County1449NPCounty Transportation1450NPTransportation Agency1451NPAgency ,1452,, everyone1453NNeveryone recognized1454VVDrecognize Paul1455NPPaul Johnson1456NPJohnson was1457VBDbe denied1458VVNdeny the1459DTthe job1460NNjob because1461INbecause of1462INof his1463PP$his sex1464NNsex ,1465,, but1466CCbut because1467INbecause it1468PPit was1469VBDbe a1470DTa permissible1471JJpermissible affirmative1472JJaffirmative action1473NNaction program1474NNprogram ,1475,, that1476WDTthat was1477VBDbe okay1478JJokay .1479SENT. In1480INin Dothard1481NPDothard against1482INagainst Rawlinson1483NPRawlinson ,1484,, this1485DTthis Court1486NPCourt said1487VVDsay Ms1488NNMs .1489SENT. Rawlinson1490NPRawlinson is1491VBZbe discriminated1492VVNdiscriminate against1493INagainst because1494INbecause of1495INof sex1496NNsex ,1497,, but1498CCbut there1499EXthere 's1500VBZbe a1501DTa BFOQ1502NPBFOQ .1503SENT. So1504RBso if1505INif Congress1506NPCongress writes1507VVZwrite an1508DTan exemption1509NNexemption into1510INinto the1511DTthe statute1512NNstatute ,1513,, that1514WDTthat 's1515VBZbe one1516CDone thing1517NNthing .1518SENT. But1519CCbut this1520DTthis Court1521NPCourt really1522RBreally should1523MDshould n't1524RBn't be1525VBbe writing1526VVGwrite in1527INin an1528DTan exemption1529NNexemption for1530INfor those1531DTthose purposes1532NNSpurpose .1533SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1534LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Do1535VVPdo you1536PPyou think1537VVPthink we1538PPwe need1539VVPneed exemptions1540NNSexemption for1541INfor those1542DTthose BFOQs1543NPBFOQs ?1544SENT? It1545PPit 's1546VBZbe not1547RBnot just1548RBjust the1549DTthe ...1550:... physical1551JJphysical fitness1552NNfitness standards1553NNSstandard for1554INfor different1555JJdifferent sports1556NNSsport ,1557,, but1558CCbut big1559JJbig issue1560NNissue right1561RBright now1562RBnow raging1563VVGrage the1564DTthe country1565NNcountry is1566VBZbe bathroom1567NNbathroom usage1568NNusage .1569SENT. Same-sex1570NPSame-sex bathroom1571NNbathroom usage1572NNusage .1573SENT. How1574WRBHow are1575VBPbe those1576DTthose cases1577NNScase going1578VVGgo to1579TOto be1580VBbe dealt1581VVNdeal with1582INwith absent1583JJabsent a1584DTa congressional1585JJcongressional exemption1586NNexemption other1587JJother than1588INthan BFOQ1589NPBFOQ ?1590SENT? [MS. KARLAN]1591LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well1592UHwell ,1593,, I1594PPI think1595VVPthink the1596DTthe way1597NNway that1598IN/thatthat they1599PPthey get1600VVPget dealt1601VVNdeal with1602INwith is1603VBZbe everybody1604NNeverybody agrees1605VVZagree if1606INif you1607PPyou have1608VHPhave men1609NNSman 's1610POS's bathrooms1611NNSbathroom and1612CCand women1613NNSwoman 's1614POS's bathrooms1615NNSbathroom ,1616,, that1617WDTthat 's1618VBZbe because1619INbecause of1620INof sex1621NNsex .1622SENT. It1623PPit treats1624VVZtreat men1625NNSman one1626CDone way1627NNway ,1628,, it1629PPit says1630VVZsay go1631VVgo to1632TOto this1633DTthis bathroom1634NNbathroom .1635SENT. It1636PPit treats1637VVZtreat women1638NNSwoman another1639DTanother way1640NNway ,1641,, it1642PPit says1643VVZsay go1644VVgo to1645TOto this1646DTthis bathroom1647NNbathroom .1648SENT. Then1649RBthen the1650DTthe question1651NNquestion becomes1652VVZbecome is1653VBZbe that1654IN/thatthat permissible1655JJpermissible to1656TOto do1657VVdo ?1658SENT? And1659CCand if1660INif I1661PPI could1662MDcould just1663RBjust begin1664VVbegin with1665INwith an1666DTan example1667NNexample that1668IN/thatthat I1669PPI think1670VVPthink will1671MDwill show1672VVshow why1673WRBwhy this1674DTthis is1675VBZbe so1676RBso .1677SENT. When1678WRBwhen I1679PPI got1680VVDget up1681RPup ,1682,, the1683DTthe Chief1684NPChief Justice1685NPJustice said1686VVDsay to1687TOto me1688PPme ,1689,, "1690''" Ms1691NNMs .1692SENT. "1693''" Karlan1694NPKarlan ,1695,, I1696PPI am1697VBPbe willing1698JJwilling to1699TOto bet1700VVbet any1701DTany amount1702NNamount of1703INof money1704NNmoney I1705PPI have1706VHPhave that1707DTthat when1708WRBwhen Mr1709NPMr .1710SENT. Harris1711NPHarris gets1712VVZget up1713RPup ,1714,, he1715PPhe is1716VBZbe going1717VVGgo to1718TOto say1719VVsay "1720``" Mr1721NPMr .1722SENT. "1723``" Harris1724NPHarris .1725SENT. He1726PPhe has1727VHZhave treated1728VVNtreat us1729PPus differently1730RBdifferently because1731INbecause of1732INof sex1733NNsex .1734SENT. But1735CCbut that1736DTthat 's1737VBZbe not1738RBnot discriminatory1739JJdiscriminatory because1740INbecause neither1741CCneither of1742INof us1743PPus has1744VHZhave been1745VBNbe subjected1746VVNsubject to1747TOto a1748DTa disadvantage1749NNdisadvantage .1750SENT. And1751CCand as1752INas this1753DTthis Court1754NPCourt said1755VVDsay in1756INin Burlington1757NPBurlington White1758NPWhite against1759INagainst North1760NPNorth ...1761:... Burlington1762NPBurlington Northern1763NPNorthern against1764INagainst White1765NPWhite ,1766,, what1767WPwhat the1768DTthe statute1769NNstatute means1770VVZmean when1771WRBwhen it1772PPit says1773VVZsay "1774``" discriminate1775JJdiscriminate against1776INagainst "1777``" is1778VBZbe to1779TOto cause1780VVcause an1781DTan injury1782NNinjury and1783CCand requiring1784VVGrequire people1785NNSpeople generally1786RBgenerally to1787TOto use1788VVuse separate1789JJseparate bathrooms1790NNSbathroom is1791VBZbe not1792RBnot an1793DTan injury1794NNinjury .1795SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1796LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Well1797UHWell ,1798,, I'm1799NPI'm ...1800:... I1801PPI 'm1802VBPbe not1803RBnot sure1804JJsure that1805IN/thatthat maybe1806RBmaybe how1807WRBhow they1808PPthey would1809MDwould see1810VVsee it1811PPit .1812SENT. And1813CCand to1814TOto what1815WPwhat ...1816:... to1817TOto what1818WPwhat extent1819NNextent should1820MDshould we1821PPwe take1822VVtake that1823IN/thatthat into1824INinto account1825NNaccount ?1826SENT? And1827CCand same1828JJsame thing1829NNthing with1830INwith a1831DTa gender-specific1832JJgender-specific uniform1833NNuniform requirements1834NNSrequirement .1835SENT. [MS. KARLAN]1836LOC[MS. KARLAN] Sure1837NPSure .1838SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1839LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] How1840WRBHow would1841MDwould you1842PPyou deal1843VVdeal with1844INwith those1845DTthose ,1846,, given1847VVNgive that1848DTthat ...1849:... that1850IN/thatthat at1851INat least1852JJSleast those1853DTthose affected1854VVNaffect might1855MDmight think1856VVthink that1857IN/thatthat they1858PPthey 're1859VBPbe suffering1860VVGsuffer a1861DTa harm1862NNharm ?1863SENT? [MS. KARLAN]1864LOC[MS. KARLAN] So1865INso there1866EXthere 's1867VBZbe no1868DTno categorical1869JJcategorical rule1870NNrule about1871INabout these1872DTthese .1873SENT. For1874INfor example1875NNexample ,1876,, the1877DTthe fact1878NNfact that1879IN/thatthat all1880DTall of1881INof the1882DTthe men1883NNSman sitting1884VVGsit at1885INat counsel1886NNcounsel table1887NNtable knew1888VVDknow that1889IN/thatthat they1890PPthey had1891VHDhave to1892TOto wear1893VVwear ties1894NNSty today1895NNtoday and1896CCand I1897PPI was1898VBDbe free1899JJfree not1900RBnot to1901TOto did1902VVDdo n't1903RBn't cause1904VVcause an1905DTan injury1906NNinjury .1907SENT. On1908INon the1909DTthe other1910JJother hand1911NNhand ,1912,, even1913RBeven the1914DTthe dissenters1915NNSdissenter in1916INin the1917DTthe Second1918NPSecond Circuit1919NPCircuit said1920VVDsay ,1921,, if1922INif the1923DTthe Court1924NPCourt said1925VVDsay women1926NNSwoman who1927WPwho come1928VVPcome to1929TOto argue1930VVargue should1931MDshould argue1932VVargue in1933INin Hooters1934NNShooter outfits1935NNSoutfit and1936CCand the1937DTthe men1938NNSman should1939MDshould wear1940VVwear ...1941:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1942LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] No1943NPNo ...1944:... [MS. KARLAN]1945LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...1946:... ties1947NNSty ...1948:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1949LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...1950:... we1951PPwe 're1952VBPbe not1953RBnot ...1954:... we1955PPwe 're1956VBPbe not1957RBnot ...1958:... I1959PPI mean1960VVPmean ...1961:... [MS. KARLAN]1962LOC[MS. KARLAN] I1963PPI know1964VVPknow .1965SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1966LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...1967:... we1968PPwe can1969MDcan talk1970VVtalk absurd1971JJabsurd examples1972NNSexample ...1973:... [MS. KARLAN]1974LOC[MS. KARLAN] No1975NPNo ,1976,, but1977CCbut I1978PPI can1979MDcan ...1980:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]1981LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...1982:... or1983CCor we1984PPwe can1985MDcan talk1986VVtalk real1987JJreal world1988NNworld examples1989NNSexample .1990SENT. [MS. KARLAN]1991LOC[MS. KARLAN] I1992PPI will1993MDwill give1994VVgive you1995PPyou a1996DTa real1997JJreal world1998NNworld example1999NNexample ,2000,, which2001WDTwhich is2002VBZbe ,2003,, it2004PPit probably2005RBprobably does2006VVZdo n't2007RBn't violate2008VVviolate dress2009NNdress code2010NNcode to2011TOto require2012VVrequire men2013NNSman and2014CCand women2015NNSwoman in2016INin business2017NNbusiness events2018NNSevent for2019INfor the2020DTthe women2021NNSwoman to2022TOto wear2023VVwear skirts2024NNSskirt ,2025,, but2026CCbut if2027INif you2028PPyou required2029VVDrequire a2030DTa telephone2031NNtelephone lineman2032NNlineman to2033TOto wear2034VVwear a2035DTa skirt2036NNskirt ...2037:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2038LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] No2039NPNo ,2040,, no2041RBno ...2042:... [MS. KARLAN]2043LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...2044:... while2045INwhile she2046PPshe 's2047VBZbe still2048RBstill ...2049:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2050LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I2051PPI understand2052VVPunderstand that2053RBthat .2054SENT. That2055DTthat 's2056VBZbe not2057RBnot what2058WPwhat I2059PPI 'm2060VBPbe getting2061VVGget at2062INat .2063SENT. And2064CCand you2065PPyou know2066VVPknow what2067WPwhat I2068PPI 'm2069VBPbe getting2070VVGget at2071INat .2072SENT. The2073DTthe funeral2074JJfuneral homes2075NNShome example2076NNexample 's2077VBZbe not2078RBnot a2079DTa bad2080JJbad ...2081:... the2082DTthe case2083NNcase that2084IN/thatthat we2085PPwe 're2086VBPbe about2087RBabout to2088TOto take2089VVtake up2090RPup is2091VBZbe ...2092:... is2093VBZbe ...2094:... is2095VBZbe more2096JJRmore in2097INin the2098DTthe ...2099:... in2100INin the2101DTthe realm2102NNrealm of2103INof my2104PP$my question2105NNquestion .2106SENT. [MS. KARLAN]2107LOC[MS. KARLAN] Okay2108NPOkay .2109SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2110LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] You2111PPyou can2112MDcan offer2113VVoffer me2114PPme help2115VVhelp if2116INif you2117PPyou want2118VVPwant to2119TOto .2120SENT. [MS. KARLAN]2121LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yes2122UHyes ,2123,, yes2124UHyes .2125SENT. No2126UHNo ,2127,, I2128PPI 'm2129VBPbe trying2130VVGtry to2131TOto offer2132VVoffer you2133PPyou help2134VVhelp .2135SENT. What2136WPWhat I2137PPI 'm2138VBPbe trying2139VVGtry to2140TOto say2141VVsay ...2142:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2143LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] All2144DTall right2145NNright .2146SENT. What2147WPWhat I'm2148NPI'm ...2149:... what2150WPwhat I2151PPI 'm2152VBPbe suggesting2153VVGsuggest ,2154,, counsel2155NNcounsel ,2156,, is2157VBZbe that2158IN/thatthat there2159EXthere are2160VBPbe male2161JJmale and2162CCand female2163JJfemale bathrooms2164NNSbathroom ,2165,, there2166EXthere are2167VBPbe dress2168NNdress codes2169NNScode that2170WDTthat are2171VBPbe otherwise2172RBotherwise innocuous2173JJinnocuous ,2174,, right2175RBright ,2176,, most2177JJSmost ...2178:... most2179JJSmost people2180NNSpeople would2181MDwould find2182VVfind them2183PPthem innocuous2184JJinnocuous .2185SENT. But2186CCbut the2187DTthe affected2188JJaffected communities2189NNScommunity will2190MDwill not2191RBnot .2192SENT. And2193CCand they2194PPthey will2195MDwill find2196VVfind harm2197NNharm .2198SENT. And2199CCand how2200WRBhow does2201VVZdo your2202PP$your test2203NNtest deal2204NNdeal with2205INwith that2206DTthat one2207CDone way2208NNway or2209CCor the2210DTthe other2211JJother ?2212SENT? That2213DTthat 's2214VBZbe what2215WPwhat I2216PPI 'm2217VBPbe asking2218VVGask you2219PPyou to2220TOto address2221VVaddress ,2222,, if2223INif you2224PPyou 'd2225MDwould like2226VVlike to2227TOto .2228SENT. [MS. KARLAN]2229LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yes2230NPYes .2231SENT. My2232PP$my test2233NNtest says2234VVZsay that2235IN/thatthat you2236PPyou have2237VHPhave treated2238VVNtreat the2239DTthe people2240NNSpeople differently2241RBdifferently because2242INbecause of2243INof sex2244NNsex ,2245,, which2246WDTwhich is2247VBZbe what2248WPwhat we2249PPwe are2250VBPbe asking2251VVGask you2252PPyou to2253TOto hold2254VVhold here2255RBhere .2256SENT. When2257WRBwhen you2258PPyou treat2259VVPtreat a2260DTa gay2261JJgay man2262NNman who2263WPwho wants2264VVZwant to2265TOto date2266VVdate a2267DTa woman2268NNwoman differently2269RBdifferently than2270INthan a2271DTa man2272NNman ...2273:... woman2274NNwoman who2275WPwho wants2276VVZwant to2277TOto date2278VVdate a2279DTa woman2280NNwoman ,2281,, that2282WDTthat ...2283:... that2284WDTthat 's2285VBZbe discrimination2286NNdiscrimination .2287SENT. Then2288RBthen you2289PPyou get2290VVPget to2291TOto what2292WPwhat I2293PPI 've2294VHPhave said2295VVNsay ,2296,, which2297WDTwhich is2298VBZbe you2299PPyou have2300VHPhave to2301TOto ask2302VVask whether2303INwhether a2304DTa reasonable2305JJreasonable person2306NNperson under2307INunder these2308DTthese circumstances2309NNScircumstance would2310MDwould be2311VBbe injured2312VVNinjure by2313INby the2314DTthe imposition2315NNimposition of2316INof the2317DTthe particular2318JJparticular sex-specific2319JJsex-specific world2320NNworld .2321SENT. So2322RBso when2323WRBwhen the2324DTthe Chief2325NPChief Justice2326NPJustice calls2327VVZcall me2328PPme Ms2329NNMs .2330SENT. ,2331,, I2332PPI am2333VBPbe not2334RBnot injured2335VVNinjure .2336SENT. When2337WRBwhen I2338PPI go2339VVPgo to2340TOto a2341DTa ...2342:... when2343WRBwhen I2344PPI ...2345:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2346LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] You2347PPyou are2348VBPbe not2349RBnot ,2350,, but2351CCbut another2352DTanother ...2353:... [MS. KARLAN]2354LOC[MS. KARLAN] It2355PPit ...2356:... it2357PPit ...2358:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2359LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...2360:... person2361NNperson might2362MDmight be2363VBbe .2364SENT. [MS. KARLAN]2365LOC[MS. KARLAN] Right2366RBright .2367SENT. And2368CCand the2369DTthe question2370NNquestion ...2371:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2372LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Are2373VBPbe they2374PPthey reasonable2375JJreasonable or2376CCor not2377RBnot ?2378SENT? And2379CCand ...2380:... and2381CCand I'm2382NPI'm ...2383:... I'm2384NNI'm ...2385:... I2386PPI 'm2387VBPbe just2388RBjust ...2389:... I2390PPI 'm2391VBPbe wondering2392VVGwonder ,2393,, how2394WRBhow do2395VVPdo you2396PPyou decide2397VVdecide those2398DTthose cases2399NNScase ?2400SENT? [MS. KARLAN]2401LOC[MS. KARLAN] An2402DTan idiosyncratic2403JJidiosyncratic preference2404NNpreference does2405VVZdo not2406RBnot void2407VVvoid an2408DTan otherwise2409RBotherwise valid2410JJvalid dress2411NNdress code2412NNcode or2413CCor bathroom2414NNbathroom rule2415NNrule .2416SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2417LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] So2418RBso is2419VBZbe it2420PPit ...2421:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2422LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Ms2423NNMs .2424SENT. Karlan2425NPKarlan ...2426:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2427LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I2428PPI 'm2429VBPbe sorry2430JJsorry .2431SENT. I2432PPI ...2433:... I2434PPI ...2435:... I2436PPI ...2437:... and2438CCand I2439PPI apologize2440VVPapologize .2441SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2442LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Go2443NPGo ahead2444RBahead and2445CCand finish2446VVfinish it2447PPit .2448SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2449LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Is2450VBZbe it2451PPit idiosyncratic2452JJidiosyncratic for2453INfor a2454DTa transgender2455NNtransgender person2456NNperson to2457TOto prefer2458VVprefer a2459DTa bathroom2460NNbathroom that2461WDTthat 's2462VBZbe different2463JJdifferent than2464INthan the2465DTthe ...2466:... the2467DTthe one2468CDone of2469INof their2470PP$their biological2471JJbiological sex2472NNsex ?2473SENT? Is2474VBZbe it2475PPit idiosyncratic2476JJidiosyncratic for2477INfor a2478DTa transsexual2479NNtranssexual person2480NNperson to2481TOto wish2482VVwish to2483TOto dress2484VVdress in2485INin a2486DTa different2487JJdifferent style2488NNstyle of2489INof dress2490NNdress than2491INthan his2492PP$his or2493CCor her2494PP$her biological2495NNbiological ...2496:... [MS. KARLAN]2497LOC[MS. KARLAN] No2498NPNo .2499SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2500LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Sex2501NNsex ?2502SENT? Okay2503JJokay .2504SENT. So2505INso the2506DTthe answer2507NNanswer to2508TOto your2509PP$your question2510NNquestion is2511VBZbe ...2512:... the2513DTthe question2514NNquestion then2515RBthen ,2516,, at2517INat the2518DTthe end2519NNend of2520INof the2521DTthe day2522NNday ,2523,, if2524INif I2525PPI understand2526VVPunderstand it2527PPit ,2528,, is2529VBZbe that2530IN/thatthat those2531DTthose are2532VBPbe acts2533NNSact of2534INof discrimination2535NNdiscrimination under2536INunder Title2537NPTitle VII2538NPVII as2539INas you2540PPyou understand2541VVPunderstand it2542PPit ?2543SENT? [MS. KARLAN]2544LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yes2545NPYes ,2546,, although2547INalthough I2548PPI think2549VVPthink you'd2550NNyou'd ...2551:... you2552PPyou 'd2553MDwould be2554VBbe better2555RBRwell advised2556VVNadvise to2557TOto ask2558VVask the2559DTthe question2560NNquestion to2561TOto someone2562NNsomeone who2563WPwho ...2564:... who2565WPwho is2566VBZbe representing2567VVGrepresent someone2568NNsomeone who2569WPwho is2570VBZbe transgender2571NNtransgender .2572SENT. I2573PPI am2574VBPbe representing2575VVGrepresent someone2576NNsomeone who2577WPwho is2578VBZbe gay2579JJgay .2580SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2581LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Ms2582NNMs .2583SENT. Karlan2584NPKarlan .2585SENT. [MS. KARLAN]2586LOC[MS. KARLAN] And2587CCand ...2588:... yeah2589RByeah .2590SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2591LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But2592CCbut you2593PPyou 're2594VBPbe begging2595VVGbeg Justice2596NPJustice Gorsuch2597NPGorsuch 's2598POS's question2599NNquestion .2600SENT. We2601PPwe were2602VBDbe following2603VVGfollow up2604RPup on2605INon the2606DTthe same2607JJsame thing2608NNthing ...2609:... [MS. KARLAN]2610LOC[MS. KARLAN] I2611PPI truly2612RBtruly am2613VBPbe not2614RBnot trying2615VVGtry to2616TOto ...2617:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2618LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...2619:... which2620WDTwhich is2621VBZbe ...2622:... [MS. KARLAN]2623LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...2624:... beg2625VVbeg the2626DTthe question2627NNquestion .2628SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2629LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...2630:... how2631WRBhow do2632VVPdo we2633PPwe differentiate2634VVdifferentiate the2635DTthe two2636CDtwo ?2637SENT? What2638WPWhat is2639VBZbe the2640DTthe legal2641JJlegal test2642NNtest that2643IN/thatthat you2644PPyou propose2645VVPpropose to2646TOto say2647VVsay this2648DTthis is2649VBZbe discrimination2650NNdiscrimination because2651INbecause of2652INof sex2653NNsex ,2654,, as2655INas you2656PPyou said2657VVDsay ,2658,, calling2659VVGcall you2660PPyou one2661CDone thing2662NNthing and2663CCand your2664PP$your friend2665NNfriend another2666DTanother is2667VBZbe discriminatory2668JJdiscriminatory ,2669,, but2670CCbut it2671PPit 's2672VBZbe okay2673JJokay because2674INbecause there2675EXthere 's2676VBZbe no2677DTno harm2678NNharm .2679SENT. So2680RBso what2681WPwhat 's2682VBZbe the2683DTthe test2684NNtest we2685PPwe apply2686VVPapply to2687TOto ,2688,, say2689VVsay ,2690,, when2691WRBwhen it2692PPit is2693VBZbe harm2694NNharm and2695CCand when2696WRBwhen it2697PPit is2698VBZbe n't2699RBn't ?2700SENT? [MS. KARLAN]2701LOC[MS. KARLAN] Let2702VVlet ...2703:... let2704VVlet me2705PPme try2706VVtry to2707TOto be2708VBbe clear2709JJclear .2710SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2711LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Let2712NPLet 's2713POS's be2714VBbe ...2715:... [MS. KARLAN]2716LOC[MS. KARLAN] It2717PPit 's2718VBZbe not2719RBnot discrimination2720NNdiscrimination to2721TOto call2722VVcall me2723PPme Ms2724NNMs .2725SENT. Karlan2726NPKarlan and2727CCand to2728TOto call2729VVcall Mr2730NPMr .2731SENT. Harris2732NPHarris ,2733,, Mr2734NPMr .2735SENT. Harris2736NPHarris .2737SENT. It2738PPit is2739VBZbe ...2740:... it2741PPit is2742VBZbe because2743INbecause of2744INof sex2745NNsex that2746IN/thatthat we2747PPwe were2748VBDbe treated2749VVNtreat differently2750RBdifferently .2751SENT. But2752CCbut as2753INas this2754DTthis Court2755NPCourt has2756VHZhave made2757VVNmake it2758PPit clear2759JJclear several2760JJseveral times2761NNStime ,2762,, discrimination2763NNdiscrimination consists2764VVZconsist in2765INin an2766DTan injury2767NNinjury that2768IN/thatthat the2769DTthe law2770NNlaw is2771VBZbe prepared2772VVNprepare to2773TOto recognize2774VVrecognize .2775SENT. And2776CCand generally2777RBgenerally across2778INacross all2779DTall statutes2780NNSstatute ,2781,, this2782DTthis is2783VBZbe n't2784RBn't a2785DTa Title2786NPTitle VII2787NPVII ,2788,, and2789CCand this2790DTthis is2791VBZbe why2792WRBwhy I2793PPI 'm2794VBPbe really2795RBreally not2796RBnot begging2797VVGbeg the2798DTthe question2799NNquestion here2800RBhere ,2801,, the2802DTthe Court2803NPCourt has2804VHZhave said2805VVNsay de2806NPde minimis2807NPminimis effects2808NNSeffect are2809VBPbe exempted2810VVNexempt from2811INfrom statutes2812NNSstatute presumptively2813RBpresumptively .2814SENT. So2815RBso if2816INif this2817DTthis Court2818NPCourt thinks2819VVZthink or2820CCor if2821INif another2822DTanother court2823NNcourt ...2824:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2825LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So2826INso why2827NNwhy ...2828:... [MS. KARLAN]2829LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...2830:... thinks2831VVZthink ...2832:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2833LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...2834:... is2835VBZbe a2836DTa dress2837NNdress code2838NNcode for2839INfor Hooters2840NNShooter that2841WDTthat requires2842VVZrequire all2843DTall women2844NNSwoman to2845TOto wear2846VVwear a2847DTa scantily2848RBscantily ...2849:... a2850DTa scant2851JJscant dress2852NNdress ,2853,, is2854VBZbe that2855IN/thatthat discriminatory2856JJdiscriminatory ?2857SENT? [MS. KARLAN]2858LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yes2859NPYes ,2860,, it2861PPit is2862VBZbe .2863SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2864LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Is2865VBZbe it2866PPit discriminatory2867JJdiscriminatory for2868INfor the2869DTthe woman2870NNwoman who2871WPwho just2872RBjust does2873VVZdo n't2874RBn't want2875VVwant to2876TOto wear2877VVwear it2878PPit because2879INbecause it2880PPit 's2881VBZbe demeaning2882VVGdemean ?2883SENT? [MS. KARLAN]2884LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yes2885NPYes ,2886,, it2887PPit is2888VBZbe .2889SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2890LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So2891INso how2892WRBhow about2893RBabout ,2894,, is2895VBZbe it2896PPit discriminatory2897JJdiscriminatory for2898INfor the2899DTthe restaurant2900NNrestaurant not2901RBnot to2902TOto hire2903VVhire a2904DTa transgender2905NNtransgender man2906NNman who2907WPwho wants2908VVZwant to2909TOto wear2910VVwear the2911DTthe uniform2912NNuniform ?2913SENT? [MS. KARLAN]2914LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well2915UHwell ,2916,, you2917PPyou 're2918VBPbe going2919VVGgo to2920TOto get2921VVget ...2922:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2923LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] The2924DTthe scant2925JJscant uniform2926NNuniform .2927SENT. [MS. KARLAN]2928LOC[MS. KARLAN] I2929PPI ...2930:... I2931PPI mean2932VVPmean ,2933,, I2934PPI do2935VVPdo want2936VVwant to2937TOto get2938VVget to2939TOto the2940DTthe question2941NNquestion of2942INof sexual2943JJsexual orientation2944NNorientation ...2945:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2946LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] No2947UHNo ,2948,, no2949UHno ,2950,, no2951UHno ...2952:... [MS. KARLAN]2953LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...2954:... here2955RBhere ,2956,, but2957CCbut I2958PPI understand2959VVPunderstand ...2960:... I2961PPI understand2962VVPunderstand .2963SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2964LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But2965CCbut I2966PPI think2967VVPthink what2968WPwhat you2969PPyou 're2970VBPbe alluding2971VVGallude is2972VBZbe ,2973,, and2974CCand I2975PPI still2976RBstill have2977VHPhave n't2978RBn't heard2979VVNhear ...2980:... [MS. KARLAN]2981LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yeah2982NPYeah .2983SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2984LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...2985:... the2986DTthe explanation2987NNexplanation ,2988,, which2989WDTwhich is2990VBZbe the2991DTthe question2992NNquestion of2993INof how2994WRBhow do2995VVPdo we2996PPwe tell2997VVtell what2998WPwhat 's2999VBZbe actionable3000JJactionable and3001CCand not3002RBnot ?3003SENT? [MS. KARLAN]3004LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well3005UHWell ,3006,, if3007INif ...3008:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3009LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] At3010INat what3011WPwhat ...3012:... when3013WRBwhen does3014VVZdo that3015DTthat discrimination3016NNdiscrimination become3017VVbecome an3018DTan issue3019NNissue ?3020SENT? [MS. KARLAN]3021LOC[MS. KARLAN] I'll3022NPI'll ...3023:... I3024PPI 'll3025MDwill give3026VVgive an3027DTan analogy3028NNanalogy from3029INfrom the3030DTthe race3031NNrace area3032NNarea that3033WDTthat may3034MDmay be3035VBbe helpful3036JJhelpful to3037TOto the3038DTthe Court3039NPCourt ,3040,, which3041WDTwhich is3042VBZbe ,3043,, for3044INfor many3045JJmany years3046NNSyear ,3047,, there3048EXthere was3049VBDbe an3050DTan argument3051NNargument that3052IN/thatthat separate3053JJseparate but3054CCbut equal3055JJequal was3056VBDbe acceptable3057JJacceptable .3058SENT. And3059CCand ultimately3060RBultimately this3061DTthis Court3062NPCourt concluded3063VVDconclude that3064IN/thatthat when3065WRBwhen it3066PPit came3067VVDcome to3068TOto race3069NNrace ,3070,, separate3071JJseparate but3072CCbut equal3073JJequal was3074VBDbe not3075RBnot permissible3076JJpermissible .3077SENT. I3078PPI do3079VVPdo n't3080RBn't think3081VVthink the3082DTthe Court3083NPCourt has3084VHZhave held3085VVNhold anything3086NNanything like3087INlike that3088IN/thatthat with3089INwith regard3090NNregard to3091TOto sex3092NNsex ,3093,, but3094CCbut you3095PPyou 're3096VBPbe going3097VVGgo to3098TOto have3099VHhave to3100TOto answer3101VVanswer that3102DTthat question3103NNquestion about3104INabout dress3105NNdress codes3106NNScode regardless3107RBregardless of3108INof how3109WRBhow you3110PPyou rule3111VVPrule in3112INin either3113CCeither my3114PP$my case3115NNcase or3116CCor in3117INin Ms3118NNMs .3119SENT. Stephens3120NPStephens '3121POS' case3122NNcase because3123INbecause ...3124:... [JUSTICE ALITO]3125LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Can3126MDcan I3127PPI ask3128VVask ...3129:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]3130LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Would3131MDwould you3132PPyou say3133VVsay the3134DTthe test3135NNtest is3136VBZbe is3137VBZbe the3138DTthe person3139NNperson injured3140VVNinjure ?3141SENT? Yes3142UHyes ,3143,, it3144PPit 's3145VBZbe a3146DTa differential3147NNdifferential based3148VVNbase on3149INon gender3150NNgender ,3151,, but3152CCbut most3153JJSmost people3154NNSpeople are3155VBPbe not3156RBnot injured3157VVNinjure by3158INby having3159VHGhave separate3160JJseparate bathrooms3161NNSbathroom .3162SENT. In3163INin fact3164NNfact ,3165,, they3166PPthey ...3167:... most3168JJSmost people3169NNSpeople would3170MDwould prefer3171VVprefer it3172PPit .3173SENT. So3174RBso are3175VBPbe you3176PPyou saying3177VVGsay that3178IN/thatthat we3179PPwe have3180VHPhave to3181TOto wait3182VVwait for3183INfor the3184DTthe testing3185NNtesting case3186NNcase for3187INfor the3188DTthe person3189NNperson who3190WPwho might3191MDmight be3192VBbe injured3193VVNinjure by3194INby not3195RBnot being3196VBGbe allowed3197VVNallow to3198TOto use3199VVuse the3200DTthe bathroom3201NNbathroom of3202INof the3203DTthe other3204JJother sex3205NNsex ?3206SENT? [MS. KARLAN]3207LOC[MS. KARLAN] I3208PPI think3209VVPthink it3210PPit highly3211RBhighly unlikely3212JJunlikely you3213PPyou 're3214VBPbe going3215VVGgo to3216TOto see3217VVsee cases3218NNScase like3219INlike that3220DTthat .3221SENT. The3222DTthe bathroom3223NNbathroom issue3224NNissue has3225VHZhave been3226VBNbe around3227RBaround since3228INsince the3229DTthe beginning3230NNbeginning of3231INof Title3232NPTitle VII3233NPVII .3234SENT. Title3235NPTitle VII3236NPVII has3237VHZhave a3238DTa special3239JJspecial provision3240NNprovision in3241INin 7033242CD@card@ (3243(( a3244DTa )3245)) (3246(( ii3247NNii )3248)) that3249WDTthat says3250VVZsay ,3251,, when3252WRBwhen you3253PPyou segregate3254VVPsegregate people3255NNSpeople ,3256,, the3257DTthe question3258NNquestion is3259VBZbe whether3260INwhether that3261DTthat segregation3262NNsegregation denies3263VVZdeny them3264PPthem employment3265NNemployment opportunities3266NNSopportunity .3267SENT. And3268CCand it3269PPit is3270VBZbe hard3271JJhard to3272TOto see3273VVsee ,3274,, quite3275RBquite honestly3276RBhonestly ,3277,, how3278WRBhow requiring3279VVGrequire men3280NNSman to3281TOto use3282VVuse a3283DTa men3284NNSman 's3285POS's room3286NNroom and3287CCand women3288NNSwoman to3289TOto use3290VVuse a3291DTa women3292NNSwoman 's3293POS's room3294NNroom denies3295VVZdeny them3296PPthem employment3297NNemployment opportunities3298NNSopportunity .3299SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]3300LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] May3301MDmay I3302PPI ask3303VVask you3304PPyou to3305TOto ...3306:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3307LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Are3308VBPbe these3309DTthese ...3310:... Justice3311NPJustice Alito3312NPAlito .3313SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]3314LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] May3315MDmay I3316PPI ask3317VVask you3318PPyou to3319TOto respond3320VVrespond to3321TOto what3322WPwhat some3323DTsome people3324NNSpeople will3325MDwill say3326VVsay about3327INabout this3328DTthis Court3329NPCourt if3330INif we3331PPwe rule3332VVPrule in3333INin your3334PP$your favor3335NNfavor ?3336SENT? And3337CCand what3338WPwhat they3339PPthey will3340MDwill say3341VVsay is3342VBZbe that3343IN/thatthat whether3344INwhether Title3345NPTitle VII3346NPVII should3347MDshould prohibit3348VVprohibit discrimination3349NNdiscrimination on3350INon the3351DTthe basis3352NNbasis of3353INof sexual3354JJsexual orientation3355NNorientation is3356VBZbe a3357DTa big3358JJbig policy3359NNpolicy issue3360NNissue ,3361,, and3362CCand it3363PPit is3364VBZbe a3365DTa different3366JJdifferent policy3367NNpolicy issue3368NNissue from3369INfrom the3370DTthe one3371CDone that3372IN/thatthat Congress3373NPCongress thought3374VVDthink it3375PPit was3376VBDbe addressing3377VVGaddress 243378CD@card@ in3379INin 19643380CD@card@ .3381SENT. And3382CCand Congress3383NPCongress has3384VHZhave been3385VBNbe asked3386VVNask repeatedly3387RBrepeatedly in3388INin the3389DTthe years3390NNSyear since3391INsince 19643392CD@card@ to3393TOto address3394VVaddress this3395DTthis question3396NNquestion .3397SENT. The3398DTthe Equality3399NNequality Act3400NNact is3401VBZbe before3402INbefore Congress3403NPCongress right3404RBright now3405RBnow .3406SENT. Congress3407NPCongress has3408VHZhave declined3409VVNdecline or3410CCor failed3411VVNfail to3412TOto act3413VVact on3414INon these3415DTthese requests3416NNSrequest .3417SENT. And3418CCand if3419INif the3420DTthe Court3421NPCourt takes3422VVZtake this3423DTthis up3424RBup and3425CCand interprets3426VVZinterpret this3427DTthis 19643428CD@card@ statute3429NNstatute to3430TOto prohibit3431VVprohibit discrimination3432NNdiscrimination based3433VVNbase on3434INon sexual3435JJsexual orientation3436NNorientation ,3437,, we3438PPwe will3439MDwill be3440VBbe acting3441VVGact exactly3442RBexactly like3443INlike a3444DTa legislature3445NNlegislature .3446SENT. We3447PPwe might3448MDmight as3449RBas well3450RBwell just3451RBjust take3452VVtake the3453DTthe Equality3454NNequality Act3455NNact and3456CCand issue3457NNissue that3458IN/thatthat as3459INas our3460PP$our opinion3461NNopinion and3462CCand say3463VVsay ,3464,, as3465INas Judge3466NPJudge Posner3467NPPosner said3468VVDsay ,3469,, that3470IN/thatthat the3471DTthe courts3472NNScourt need3473VVPneed to3474TOto intervene3475VVintervene on3476INon questions3477NNSquestion like3478VVPlike this3479DTthis when3480WRBwhen the3481DTthe legislative3482JJlegislative branch3483NNbranch simply3484RBsimply will3485MDwill not3486RBnot do3487VVdo so3488RBso .3489SENT. What3490WPWhat would3491MDwould we3492PPwe ...3493:... how3494WRBhow would3495MDwould we3496PPwe respond3497VVrespond to3498TOto that3499DTthat question3500NNquestion ?3501SENT? [MS. KARLAN]3502LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well3503UHWell ,3504,, the3505DTthe fact3506NNfact that3507IN/thatthat a3508DTa loose3509JJloose cannon3510NNcannon like3511INlike Judge3512NPJudge Posner3513NPPosner says3514VVZsay ,3515,, "3516``" do3517VVPdo whatever3518WDTwhatever you3519PPyou feel3520VVPfeel like3521INlike "3522``" is3523VBZbe not3524RBnot what3525WPwhat we3526PPwe 're3527VBPbe asking3528VVGask for3529INfor .3530SENT. We3531PPwe 're3532VBPbe saying3533VVGsay ,3534,, if3535INif you3536PPyou read3537VVPread the3538DTthe words3539NNSword "3540''" because3541INbecause of3542INof sex3543NNsex "3544''" and3545CCand you3546PPyou ask3547VVPask ,3548,, in3549INin 19643550CD@card@ ,3551,, what3552WPwhat did3553VVDdo those3554DTthose words3555NNSword mean3556VVPmean ?3557SENT? They3558PPthey meant3559VVDmean treating3560VVGtreat men3561NNSman differently3562RBdifferently from3563INfrom women3564NNSwoman .3565SENT. So3566RBso if3567INif in3568INin 19643569CD@card@ it3570PPit would3571MDwould be3572VBbe discrimination3573NNdiscrimination to3574TOto fire3575VVfire a3576DTa woman3577NNwoman who3578WPwho wanted3579VVDwant to3580TOto ...3581:... you3582PPyou know3583VVPknow ,3584,, a3585DTa woman3586NNwoman who3587WPwho enjoyed3588VVDenjoy sewing3589NNsewing ,3590,, and3591CCand there3592EXthere 's3593VBZbe a3594DTa famous3595JJfamous case3596NNcase ,3597,, it3598PPit 's3599VBZbe the3600DTthe foundational3601JJfoundational case3602NNcase on3603INon sexual3604JJsexual orientation3605NNorientation where3606WRBwhere they3607PPthey fired3608VVDfire a3609DTa man3610NNman who3611WPwho said3612VVDsay ...3613:... [JUSTICE ALITO]3614LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] We3615PPwe will3616MDwill ...3617:... [MS. KARLAN]3618LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...3619:... his3620PP$his body3621NNbody was3622VBDbe ...3623:... [JUSTICE ALITO]3624LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] We3625PPwe would3626MDwould not3627RBnot be3628VBbe deciding3629VVGdecide a3630DTa major3631JJmajor policy3632NNpolicy question3633NNquestion that3634WDTthat was3635VBDbe not3636RBnot in3637INin Congress3638NPCongress 's3639POS's mind3640NNmind in3641INin 19643642CD@card@ ,3643,, and3644CCand then3645RBthen Congress3646NPCongress has3647VHZhave repeatedly3648RBrepeatedly failed3649VVNfail to3650TOto address3651VVaddress in3652INin the3653DTthe years3654NNSyear since3655INsince then3656RBthen ?3657SENT? [MS. KARLAN]3658LOC[MS. KARLAN] No3659RBno more3660JJRmore than3661INthan what3662WPwhat you3663PPyou did3664VVDdo in3665INin Oncale3666NPOncale .3667SENT. No3668DTno more3669JJRmore than3670INthan what3671WPwhat you3672PPyou did3673VVDdo in3674INin Price3675NPPrice Waterhouse3676NPWaterhouse .3677SENT. No3678DTno more3679JJRmore than3680INthan what3681WPwhat you3682PPyou did3683VVDdo in3684RPin ...3685:... [JUSTICE BREYER]3686LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] All3687DTall right3688NNright .3689SENT. [MS. KARLAN]3690LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...3691:... Newport3692NPNewport News3693NPNews .3694SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3695LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Is3696VBZbe there3697RBthere ...3698:... is3699VBZbe there3700RBthere ...3701:... in3702INin my3703PP$my mind3704NNmind ,3705,, there3706EXthere are3707VBPbe three3708CDthree basic3709JJbasic parts3710NNSpart to3711TOto this3712DTthis case3713NNcase on3714INon the3715DTthe other3716JJother side3717NNside ,3718,, to3719TOto language3720NNlanguage .3721SENT. You3722PPyou 've3723VHPhave dealt3724VVNdeal with3725INwith that3726DTthat .3727SENT. The3728DTthe parade3729NNparade of3730INof horribles3731NNShorrible ,3732,, you3733PPyou 've3734VHPhave dealt3735VVNdeal with3736INwith that3737DTthat .3738SENT. And3739CCand the3740DTthe third3741JJthird one3742CDone is3743VBZbe the3744DTthe one3745CDone that3746IN/thatthat Alito3747NPAlito is3748VBZbe bringing3749VVGbring up3750RPup in3751INin one3752CDone form3753NNform ,3754,, as3755INas it3756PPit comes3757VVZcome out3758RPout of3759INof the3760DTthe ...3761:... out3762RBout of3763INof the3764DTthe briefs3765NNSbrief ,3766,, as3767INas I3768PPI read3769VVPread it3770PPit in3771INin your3772PP$your opponent3773NNopponent 's3774POS's brief3775NNbrief .3776SENT. I3777PPI would3778MDwould put3779VVput it3780PPit in3781INin these3782DTthese terms3783NNSterm .3784SENT. Imagine3785VVimagine a3786DTa statute3787NNstatute that3788WDTthat says3789VVZsay policemen3790NNSpoliceman ,3791,, dah3792NNdah ,3793,, dah3794NNdah ,3795,, dah3796NNdah ,3797,, must3798MDmust pay3799VVpay damages3800NNSdamage .3801SENT. Passed3802VVNpass a3803DTa long3804JJlong time3805NNtime ago3806RBago .3807SENT. That3808DTthat does3809VVZdo n't3810RBn't apply3811VVapply to3812TOto German3813JJGerman policemen3814NNSpoliceman .3815SENT. [MS. KARLAN]3816LOC[MS. KARLAN] Does3817VVZdo n't3818RBn't apply3819VVapply to3820TOto what3821WPwhat kind3822NNkind of3823INof ...3824:... [JUSTICE BREYER]3825LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] To3826TOTo German3827JJGerman policemen3828NNSpoliceman .3829SENT. The3830DTthe meaning3831NNmeaning is3832VBZbe the3833DTthe same3834JJsame .3835SENT. German3836JJGerman policemen3837NNSpoliceman are3838VBPbe policemen3839NNSpoliceman .3840SENT. But3841CCbut the3842DTthe statute3843NNstatute does3844VVZdo n't3845RBn't apply3846VVapply to3847TOto them3848PPthem .3849SENT. How3850WRBHow do3851VVPdo we3852PPwe know3853VVPknow ?3854SENT? Well3855UHwell ,3856,, we3857PPwe know3858VVPknow through3859INthrough a3860DTa lot3861NNlot of3862INof history3863NNhistory ,3864,, dah3865NNdah ,3866,, dah3867NNdah ,3868,, dah3869NNdah .3870SENT. Okay3871JJokay ?3872SENT? Now3873RBnow ,3874,, that3875WDTthat 's3876VBZbe the3877DTthe ...3878:... that3879WDTthat 's3880VBZbe the3881DTthe box3882NNbox in3883INin which3884WDTwhich I3885PPI put3886VVDput the3887DTthe argument3888NNargument that3889IN/thatthat Justice3890NPJustice Alito3891NPAlito made3892VVDmake .3893SENT. It3894PPit 's3895VBZbe a3896DTa serious3897JJserious legal3898JJlegal argument3899NNargument ,3900,, and3901CCand the3902DTthe argument3903NNargument is3904VBZbe that3905IN/thatthat at3906INat the3907DTthe time3908NNtime Congress3909NPCongress would3910MDwould n't3911RBn't have3912VHhave dreamt3913VVNdream of3914INof this3915DTthis .3916SENT. And3917CCand ,3918,, therefore3919RBtherefore ,3920,, the3921DTthe words3922NNSword ,3923,, though3924INthough they3925PPthey apply3926VVPapply ,3927,, they3928PPthey meant3929VVDmean to3930TOto exclude3931VVexclude the3932DTthe gays3933NNSgay and3934CCand transgender3935NNtransgender .3936SENT. Now3937RBnow ,3938,, what3939WPwhat I3940PPI need3941VVPneed to3942TOto hear3943VVhear is3944VBZbe a3945DTa clear3946JJclear answer3947NNanswer to3948TOto that3949DTthat question3950NNquestion .3951SENT. [MS. KARLAN]3952LOC[MS. KARLAN] I3953PPI think3954VVPthink the3955DTthe way3956NNway to3957TOto think3958VVthink about3959INabout this3960DTthis is3961VBZbe to3962TOto ask3963VVask about3964INabout the3965DTthe specific3966JJspecific behavior3967NNbehavior that3968WDTthat 's3969VBZbe at3970INat issue3971NNissue ,3972,, which3973WDTwhich is3974VBZbe a3975DTa man3976NNman dates3977VVZdate a3978DTa man3979NNman ,3980,, and3981CCand then3982RBthen ask3983VVask :3984:: How3985WRBHow does3986VVZdo that3987DTthat fit3988NNfit within3989INwithin the3990DTthe language3991NNlanguage ?3992SENT? And3993CCand the3994DTthe best3995JJSgood example3996NNexample I3997PPI can3998MDcan give3999VVgive ...4000:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4001LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] It4002PPit fits4003VVZfit .4004SENT. [MS. KARLAN]4005LOC[MS. KARLAN] No4006NPNo ,4007,, I'm4008NPI'm ...4009:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4010LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] I4011PPI give4012VVPgive you4013PPyou it4014PPit fits4015VVZfit .4016SENT. [MS. KARLAN]4017LOC[MS. KARLAN] I'm4018NPI'm ...4019:... I4020PPI 'm4021VBPbe about4022RBabout to4023TOto explain4024VVexplain why4025NNwhy ...4026:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4027LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yeah4028NPYeah .4029SENT. [MS. KARLAN]4030LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...4031:... it4032PPit fits4033VVZfit .4034SENT. Which4035WDTwhich is4036VBZbe the4037DTthe idea4038NNidea was4039VBDbe that4040IN/thatthat people4041NNSpeople should4042MDshould not4043RBnot be4044VBbe denied4045VVNdeny jobs4046NNSjob that4047IN/thatthat they4048PPthey 're4049VBPbe qualified4050VVNqualify to4051TOto do4052VVdo ,4053,, award-winning4054JJaward-winning advocates4055NNSadvocate for4056INfor child4057NNchild services4058NNSservice like4059INlike Gerald4060NPGerald Bostock4061NPBostock should4062MDshould not4063RBnot be4064VBbe denied4065VVNdeny a4066DTa job4067NNjob ,4068,, because4069INbecause they4070PPthey are4071VBPbe a4072DTa man4073NNman who4074WPwho does4075VVZdo something4076NNsomething that4077IN/thatthat if4078INif they4079PPthey were4080VBDbe a4081DTa woman4082NNwoman ,4083,, would4084MDwould cause4085VVcause no4086DTno problems4087NNSproblem at4088INat all4089DTall .4090SENT. So4091RBso just4092RBjust to4093TOto give4094VVgive an4095DTan example4096NNexample from4097INfrom the4098DTthe first4099JJfirst sex4100NNsex discrimination4101NNdiscrimination case4102NNcase this4103DTthis Court4104NPCourt had4105VHDhave ,4106,, which4107WDTwhich was4108VBDbe the4109DTthe Phillips4110NPPhillips against4111INagainst Martin4112NPMartin Marietta4113NPMarietta case4114NNcase ,4115,, a4116DTa woman4117NNwoman who4118WPwho has4119VHZhave children4120NNSchild at4121INat home4122NNhome should4123MDshould not4124RBnot be4125VBbe denied4126VVNdeny a4127DTa job4128NNjob that4129IN/thatthat a4130DTa man4131NNman who4132WPwho has4133VHZhave children4134NNSchild at4135INat home4136NNhome .4137SENT. Now4138RBnow ,4139,, all4140RBall you4141PPyou have4142VHPhave to4143TOto do4144VVdo is4145VBZbe say4146VVsay those4147DTthose words4148NNSword apply4149VVPapply also4150RBalso if4151INif it4152PPit is4153VBZbe a4154DTa woman4155NNwoman who4156WPwho has4157VHZhave a4158DTa wife4159NNwife at4160INat home4161NNhome ...4162:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4163LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Counsel4164NPCounsel ,4165,, I4166PPI ...4167:... [MS. KARLAN]4168LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...4169:... rather4170RBrather than4171INthan children4172NNSchild .4173SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4174LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Several4175JJseveral ,4176,, I4177PPI think4178VVPthink about4179INabout 234180CD@card@ ,4181,, states4182NNSstate have4183VHPhave been4184VBNbe passing4185VVGpass laws4186NNSlaw to4187TOto address4188VVaddress these4189DTthese ...4190:... these4191DTthese issues4192NNSissue .4193SENT. And4194CCand I4195PPI do4196VVPdo n't4197RBn't know4198VVknow how4199WRBhow many4200JJmany of4201INof them4202PPthem ,4203,, but4204CCbut I4205PPI think4206VVPthink it4207PPit 's4208VBZbe a4209DTa big4210JJbig part4211NNpart of4212INof them4213PPthem ,4214,, when4215WRBwhen they4216PPthey do4217VVPdo extend4218VVextend the4219DTthe coverage4220NNcoverage against4221INagainst discrimination4222NNdiscrimination on4223INon the4224DTthe basis4225NNbasis of4226INof sex4227NNsex to4228TOto sexual4229JJsexual orientation4230NNorientation ,4231,, transgender4232NNtransgender ,4233,, they4234PPthey also4235RBalso include4236VVPinclude an4237DTan exemption4238NNexemption for4239INfor religious4240JJreligious organizations4241NNSorganization .4242SENT. Now4243RBnow ,4244,, if4245INif we4246PPwe 're4247VBPbe going4248VVGgo to4249TOto be4250VBbe extending4251VVGextend the4252DTthe ...4253:... the4254DTthe understanding4255NNunderstanding of4256INof what4257WPwhat sex4258NNsex encompasses4259VVZencompass ,4260,, and4261CCand I4262PPI know4263VVPknow your4264PP$your argument4265NNargument ...4266:... [MS. KARLAN]4267LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yeah4268NPYeah .4269SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4270LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...4271:... that4272IN/thatthat that4273DTthat 's4274VBZbe not4275RBnot doing4276VVGdo that4277IN/thatthat ,4278,, how4279WRBhow do4280VVPdo we4281PPwe address4282VVaddress that4283DTthat other4284JJother concern4285NNconcern ,4286,, that4287WDTthat at4288INat least4289JJSleast ,4290,, I4291PPI think4292VVPthink almost4293RBalmost every4294DTevery state4295NNstate legislature4296NNlegislature that4297WDTthat has4298VHZhave extended4299VVNextend it4300PPit has4301VHZhave felt4302VVNfeel compelled4303VVNcompel to4304TOto address4305VVaddress ?4306SENT? [MS. KARLAN]4307LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well4308UHWell ,4309,, I4310PPI ...4311:... I4312PPI ...4313:... I4314PPI would4315MDwould say4316VVsay three4317CDthree things4318NNSthing about4319INabout that4320DTthat :4321:: The4322DTthe first4323JJfirst is4324VBZbe this4325DTthis Court4326NPCourt has4327VHZhave already4328RBalready created4329VVNcreate an4330DTan exemption4331NNexemption for4332INfor sincere4333JJsincere religious4334JJreligious belief4335NNbelief for4336INfor a4337DTa large4338JJlarge category4339NNcategory of4340INof employers4341NNSemployer through4342INthrough the4343DTthe ministerial4344JJministerial exception4345NNexception .4346SENT. The4347DTthe second4348NNsecond is4349VBZbe that4350IN/thatthat Congress4351NPCongress balanced4352VVDbalance these4353DTthese issues4354NNSissue and4355CCand has4356VHZhave rebalanced4357VVNrebalance them4358PPthem several4359JJseveral times4360NNStime in4361INin the4362DTthe co-religionist4363NNco-religionist exception4364NNexception .4365SENT. The4366DTthe third4367JJthird thing4368NNthing I4369PPI would4370MDwould say4371VVsay is4372VBZbe to4373TOto understand4374VVunderstand this4375DTthis in4376INin context4377NNcontext ,4378,, which4379WDTwhich is4380VBZbe 854381CD@card@ percent4382NNpercent of4383INof American4384JJAmerican employers4385NNSemployer are4386VBPbe not4387RBnot covered4388VVNcover by4389INby Title4390NPTitle VII4391NPVII at4392INat all4393DTall .4394SENT. So4395RBso as4396RBas to4397TOto those4398DTthose employers4399NNSemployer ,4400,, if4401INif they4402PPthey have4403VHPhave religious4404JJreligious objections4405NNSobjection to4406TOto hiring4407VVGhire someone4408NNsomeone who4409WPwho is4410VBZbe gay4411JJgay ,4412,, they4413PPthey 're4414VBPbe free4415JJfree to4416TOto continue4417VVcontinue doing4418VVGdo that4419DTthat .4420SENT. And4421CCand the4422DTthe fourth4423JJfourth is4424VBZbe to4425TOto make4426VVmake it4427PPit very4428RBvery clear4429JJclear that4430IN/thatthat the4431DTthe question4432NNquestion is4433VBZbe not4434RBnot whether4435INwhether people4436NNSpeople have4437VHPhave religious4438JJreligious objections4439NNSobjection to4440TOto homosexuality4441NNhomosexuality ;4442:; it4443PPit 's4444VBZbe whether4445INwhether they4446PPthey have4447VHPhave religious4448JJreligious objections4449NNSobjection to4450TOto hiring4451VVGhire someone4452NNsomeone who4453WPwho is4454VBZbe gay4455JJgay or4456CCor lesbian4457JJlesbian .4458SENT. And4459CCand there4460EXthere are4461VBPbe many4462JJmany employers4463NNSemployer whose4464WP$whose own4465JJown religious4466JJreligious beliefs4467NNSbelief would4468MDwould tell4469VVtell them4470PPthem this4471DTthis would4472MDwould be4473VBbe immoral4474JJimmoral for4475INfor them4476PPthem ,4477,, who4478WPwho have4479VHPhave no4480DTno problem4481NNproblem hiring4482VVGhire gays4483NNSgay and4484CCand lesbians4485NNSlesbian who4486WPwho are4487VBPbe qualified4488VVNqualify to4489TOto do4490VVdo a4491DTa job4492NNjob .4493SENT. If4494INif I4495PPI could4496MDcould just4497RBjust ask4498VVask the4499DTthe Court4500NPCourt to4501TOto do4502VVdo one4503CDone thing4504NNthing in4505INin thinking4506VVGthink back4507RBback to4508TOto 19644509CD@card@ ,4510,, it4511PPit is4512VBZbe to4513TOto look4514VVlook at4515INat the4516DTthe two4517CDtwo foundational4518JJfoundational opinions4519NNSopinion on4520INon which4521WDTwhich everybody4522NNeverybody has4523VHZhave played4524VVNplay a4525DTa game4526NNgame of4527INof telephone4528NNtelephone ever4529RBever since4530RBsince .4531SENT. It4532PPit 's4533VBZbe like4534INlike your4535PP$your opinion4536NNopinion last4537JJlast term4538NNterm in4539INin Argus4540NPArgus Media4541NPMedia ,4542,, where4543WRBwhere you4544PPyou ask4545VVPask where4546WRBwhere did4547VVDdo the4548DTthe idea4549NNidea that4550IN/thatthat homosexuality4551NNhomosexuality was4552VBDbe n't4553RBn't covered4554VVNcover come4555VVNcome from4556INfrom ?4557SENT? It4558PPit came4559VVDcome from4560INfrom first4561RBfirst a4562DTa case4563NNcase where4564WRBwhere a4565DTa gay4566JJgay black4567JJblack man4568NNman said4569VVDsay he4570PPhe was4571VBDbe being4572VBGbe treated4573VVNtreat worse4574JJRbad than4575INthan gay4576JJgay white4577JJwhite men4578NNSman .4579SENT. It4580PPit was4581VBDbe n't4582RBn't even4583RBeven a4584DTa sexual4585JJsexual discrimination4586NNdiscrimination case4587NNcase .4588SENT. The4589DTthe second4590JJsecond one4591CDone came4592VVDcome from4593INfrom a4594DTa straight4595JJstraight man4596NNman who4597WPwho was4598VBDbe fired4599VVNfire because4600INbecause ...4601:... who4602WPwho was4603VBDbe denied4604VVNdeny a4605DTa job4606NNjob because4607INbecause he4608PPhe said4609VVDsay his4610PP$his hobby4611NNhobby was4612VBDbe sewing4613VVGsew .4614SENT. And4615CCand the4616DTthe employer4617NNemployer said4618VVDsay :4619:: That4620WDTthat 's4621VBZbe an4622DTan effeminate4623JJeffeminate hobby4624NNhobby ,4625,, so4626RBso I4627PPI bet4628VVPbet you4629PPyou 're4630VBPbe gay4631JJgay .4632SENT. If4633INif you4634PPyou look4635VVPlook at4636INat the4637DTthe reasoning4638NNreasoning in4639INin those4640DTthose cases4641NNScase ,4642,, you4643PPyou will4644MDwill realize4645VVrealize that4646IN/thatthat it4647PPit was4648VBDbe not4649RBnot until4650INuntil Hively4651NPHively that4652IN/thatthat any4653DTany court4654NNcourt did4655VVDdo a4656DTa careful4657JJcareful reading4658NNreading of4659INof the4660DTthe statute4661NNstatute using4662VVGuse contemporaneous4663JJcontemporaneous methods4664NNSmethod of4665INof textual4666JJtextual interpretation4667NNinterpretation ...4668:... [JUSTICE ALITO]4669LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] But4670CCbut you4671PPyou gave4672VVDgive your4673PP$your ...4674:... [MS. KARLAN]4675LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...4676:... and4677CCand since4678INsince then4679RBthen a4680DTa majority4681NNmajority of4682INof justices4683NNSjustice ...4684:... I4685PPI mean4686VVPmean a4687DTa majority4688NNmajority of4689INof judges4690NNSjudge have4691VHPhave held4692VVNhold that4693IN/thatthat sexual4694JJsexual orientation4695NNorientation is4696VBZbe a4697DTa subset4698NNsubset of4699INof sex4700NNsex discrimination4701NNdiscrimination .4702SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]4703LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Justice4704NPJustice Breyer4705NPBreyer characterized4706VVNcharacterize what4707WPwhat I4708PPI said4709VVDsay earlier4710RBRearlier as4711INas conceding4712VVGconcede that4713DTthat sexual4714JJsexual orientation4715NNorientation discrimination4716NNdiscrimination fits4717VVZfit the4718DTthe words4719NNSword of4720INof Title4721NPTitle VII4722NPVII ,4723,, but4724CCbut that4725IN/thatthat we4726PPwe should4727MDshould take4728VVtake a4729DTa broader4730JJRbroad view4731NNview of4732INof what4733WPwhat Congress4734NPCongress had4735VHDhave in4736INin mind4737NNmind .4738SENT. But4739CCbut that4740DTthat was4741VBDbe not4742RBnot ...4743:... that4744WDTthat was4745VBDbe not4746RBnot the4747DTthe premise4748NNpremise of4749INof my4750PP$my argument4751NNargument .4752SENT. And4753CCand your4754PP$your core4755NNcore ...4756:... the4757DTthe ...4758:... the4759DTthe parties4760NNSparty have4761VHPhave in4762INin their4763PP$their briefs4764NNSbrief ,4765,, have4766VHPhave all4767DTall of4768INof these4769DTthese comparisons4770NNScomparison ,4771,, and4772CCand they4773PPthey will4774MDwill make4775VVmake your4776PP$your head4777NNhead spin4778NNspin if4779INif you4780PPyou ...4781:... if4782INif you4783PPyou try4784VVPtry to4785TOto figure4786VVfigure them4787PPthem all4788DTall out4789RPout .4790SENT. 24791LS2 But4792CCbut let4793VVlet me4794PPme just4795RBjust go4796VVPgo to4797TOto your4798PP$your core4799NNcore one4800CDone ,4801,, which4802WDTwhich you4803PPyou began4804VVDbegin with4805INwith today4806NNtoday .4807SENT. A4808DTa man4809NNman is4810VBZbe attracted4811VVNattract to4812TOto other4813JJother men4814NNSman .4815SENT. He4816PPhe 's4817VBZbe fired4818VVNfire ,4819,, let4820VVlet 's4821VBZbe say4822VVsay .4823SENT. A4824DTa woman4825NNwoman is4826VBZbe attracted4827VVNattract to4828TOto men4829NNSman ;4830:; she4831PPshe is4832VBZbe not4833RBnot fired4834VVNfire .4835SENT. You4836PPyou say4837VVPsay that4838DTthat 's4839VBZbe all4840DTall you4841PPyou need4842VVPneed to4843TOto look4844VVlook at4845INat .4846SENT. That4847DTthat 's4848VBZbe discrimination4849NNdiscrimination on4850INon the4851DTthe basis4852NNbasis of4853INof sex4854NNsex ,4855,, right4856RBright ?4857SENT? [MS. KARLAN]4858LOC[MS. KARLAN] Yes4859NPYes .4860SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]4861LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Okay4862NPOkay .4863SENT. That4864DTthat 's4865VBZbe not4866RBnot ...4867:... that4868WDTthat 's4869VBZbe not4870RBnot correct4871JJcorrect ,4872,, because4873INbecause there4874EXthere are4875VBPbe two4876CDtwo possible4877JJpossible explanations4878NNSexplanation for4879INfor what4880WPwhat happened4881VVDhappen there4882RBthere .4883SENT. It4884PPit could4885MDcould be4886VBbe based4887VVNbase on4888INon sexual4889JJsexual orientation4890NNorientation ,4891,, or4892CCor it4893PPit could4894MDcould just4895RBjust be4896VBbe based4897VVNbase on4898INon the4899DTthe fact4900NNfact that4901IN/thatthat the4902DTthe employer4903NNemployer wants4904VVZwant ...4905:... does4906VVZdo not4907RBnot want4908VVwant to4909TOto hire4910VVhire men4911NNSman .4912SENT. Now4913RBnow ,4914,, if4915INif you4916PPyou add4917VVPadd in4918INin two4919CDtwo other4920JJother cases4921NNScase ,4922,, that4923IN/thatthat a4924DTa man4925NNman who4926WPwho is4927VBZbe attracted4928VVNattract to4929TOto women4930NNSwoman ,4931,, not4932RBnot fired4933VVNfire ,4934,, a4935DTa woman4936NNwoman who4937WPwho 's4938VBZbe attracted4939VVNattract to4940TOto women4941NNSwoman ,4942,, is4943VBZbe fired4944VVNfire ,4945,, then4946RBthen you4947PPyou have4948VHPhave a4949DTa much4950RBmuch better4951JJRgood idea4952NNidea the4953DTthe basis4954NNbasis for4955INfor the4956DTthe discrimination4957NNdiscrimination .4958SENT. And4959CCand it4960PPit 's4961VBZbe sexual4962JJsexual orientation4963NNorientation .4964SENT. It4965PPit 's4966VBZbe not4967RBnot sex4968NNsex .4969SENT. [MS. KARLAN]4970LOC[MS. KARLAN] But4971CCbut in4972INin a4973DTa case4974NNcase like4975INlike the4976DTthe two4977CDtwo cases4978NNScase before4979INbefore this4980DTthis Court4981NPCourt where4982WRBwhere the4983DTthe employer4984NNemployer had4985VHDhave hired4986VVNhire these4987DTthese men4988NNSman and4989CCand they4990PPthey were4991VBDbe already4992RBalready there4993RBthere ,4994,, the4995DTthe supposition4996NNsupposition you4997PPyou made4998VVDmake in4999INin your5000PP$your question5001NNquestion does5002VVZdo n't5003RBn't apply5004VVapply ,5005,, which5006WDTwhich is5007VBZbe we5008PPwe know5009VVPknow this5010DTthis is5011VBZbe an5012DTan employer5013NNemployer who5014WPwho 's5015VBZbe willing5016JJwilling to5017TOto hire5018VVhire men5019NNSman .5020SENT. Indeed5021RBindeed ,5022,, the5023DTthe employer5024NNemployer in5025INin Gerald5026NPGerald ...5027:... I5028PPI mean5029VVPmean the5030DTthe employer5031NNemployer in5032INin Don5033NPDon Zarda5034NPZarda 's5035POS's case5036NNcase had5037VHDhave only5038JJonly men5039NNSman as5040INas skydiving5041VVGskydive instructors5042NNSinstructor .5043SENT. So5044RBso when5045WRBwhen he5046PPhe fires5047VVZfire a5048DTa man5049NNman who5050WPwho wants5051VVZwant to5052TOto date5053VVdate a5054DTa woman5055NNwoman and5056CCand he5057PPhe ...5058:... I5059PPI mean5060VVPmean a5061DTa man5062NNman who5063WPwho wants5064VVZwant to5065TOto date5066VVdate a5067DTa man5068NNman and5069CCand he5070PPhe does5071VVZdo not5072RBnot fire5073VVfire a5074DTa woman5075NNwoman who5076WPwho wants5077VVZwant to5078TOto date5079VVdate a5080DTa man5081NNman ...5082:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5083LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] The5084NPThe ...5085:... the5086DTthe point5087NNpoint is5088VBZbe that5089DTthat discrimination5090NNdiscrimination on5091INon the5092DTthe basis5093NNbasis of5094INof sex5095NNsex in5096INin the5097DTthe sense5098NNsense that5099IN/thatthat Congress5100NPCongress understood5101VVDunderstand it5102PPit in5103INin 19645104CD@card@ is5105VBZbe a5106DTa different5107JJdifferent concept5108NNconcept from5109INfrom discrimination5110NNdiscrimination on5111INon the5112DTthe basis5113NNbasis of5114INof ...5115:... [MS. KARLAN]5116LOC[MS. KARLAN] Well5117UHWell ,5118,, in5119RBin ...5120:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5121LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] ...5122:... sexual5123JJsexual orientation5124NNorientation .5125SENT. [MS. KARLAN]5126LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...5127:... in5128INin ...5129:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5130LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] And5131CCand that5132DTthat 's5133VBZbe what5134WPwhat you5135PPyou 're5136VBPbe fighting5137VVGfight .5138SENT. You5139PPyou 're5140VBPbe trying5141VVGtry to5142TOto change5143VVchange the5144DTthe meaning5145NNmeaning of5146INof what5147WPwhat Congress5148NPCongress understood5149VVDunderstand sex5150NNsex to5151TOto mean5152VVmean and5153CCand what5154WPwhat everybody5155NNeverybody understood5156VVDunderstand ...5157:... [MS. KARLAN]5158LOC[MS. KARLAN] I5159PPI ...5160:... I'm5161NNI'm ...5162:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5163LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] ...5164:... sex5165NNsex to5166TOto mean5167VVmean in5168INin 19645169CD@card@ .5170SENT. [MS. KARLAN]5171LOC[MS. KARLAN] ...5172:... not5173RBnot trying5174VVGtry to5175TOto change5176VVchange that5177IN/thatthat at5178INat all5179DTall .5180SENT. I5181PPI 'm5182VBPbe simply5183RBsimply saying5184VVGsay that5185IN/thatthat if5186INif a5187DTa man5188NNman and5189CCand a5190DTa woman5191NNwoman both5192CCboth wanted5193VVDwant to5194TOto sew5195VVsew and5196CCand you5197PPyou fire5198VVfire the5199DTthe man5200NNman who5201WPwho loves5202VVZlove sewing5203NNsewing and5204CCand you5205PPyou do5206VVPdo n't5207RBn't fire5208VVfire the5209DTthe woman5210NNwoman who5211WPwho loves5212VVZlove sewing5213NNsewing ,5214,, that5215WDTthat 's5216VBZbe discrimination5217NNdiscrimination pure5218JJpure and5219CCand simple5220JJsimple ,5221,, sex5222NNsex discrimination5223NNdiscrimination .5224SENT. If5225INif you5226PPyou fire5227VVfire a5228DTa ...5229:... if5230INif you5231PPyou fire5232VVfire the5233DTthe man5234NNman who5235WPwho ...5236:... thank5237VVthank you5238PPyou .5239SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]5240LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank5241VVthank you5242PPyou ,5243,, counsel5244NNcounsel .5245SENT. Counsel5246NNcounsel .5247SENT. [5248SYM[ LAUGHTER5249NNlaughter ]5250SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]5251LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Sorry5252RBsorry .5253SENT.