[MR. HOCHMAN]21LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Mr22NPMr .23SENT. Chief24NPChief Justice25NPJustice ,26,, and27CCand may28MDmay it29PPit please30VVplease the31DTthe Court32NPCourt :33:: Missouri34NPMissouri intends35VVZintend to36TOto carry37VVcarry out38RPout Mr39NPMr .40SENT. Bucklew41NPBucklew 's42POS's lethal43JJlethal injection44NNinjection execution45NNexecution without46INwithout informing47VVGinform medical48JJmedical members49NNSmember of50INof the51DTthe execution52NNexecution team53NNteam of54INof the55DTthe well-documented56JJwell-documented and57CCand extremely58RBextremely uncommon59JJuncommon medical60JJmedical condition61NNcondition that62WDTthat will63MDwill very64RBvery likely65RBlikely cause66VVcause his67PP$his execution68NNexecution to69TOto involve70VVinvolve severe71JJsevere harm72NNharm and73CCand suffering74NNsuffering from75INfrom the76DTthe time77NNtime they78PPthey begin79VVPbegin to80TOto gain81VVgain venous82JJvenous access83NNaccess all84PDTall the85DTthe way86NNway through87INthrough his88PP$his eventual89JJeventual death90NNdeath .91SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]92LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Mr93NPMr .94SENT. Hochman95NPHochman ,96,, can97MDcan you98PPyou tell99VVtell me100PPme the101DTthe current102JJcurrent condition103NNcondition of104INof your105PP$your client106NNclient in107INin light108NNlight of109INof Footnote110NNfootnote 2111CD2 of112INof your113PP$your opening114NNopening brief115NNbrief ?116SENT? And117CCand in118INin particular119JJparticular but120CCbut not121RBnot exclusively122RBexclusively ,123,, does124VVZdo he125PPhe still126RBstill have127VHPhave a128DTa trach129NNtrach in130INin his131PP$his throat132NNthroat ?133SENT? And134CCand if135INif he136PPhe does137VVZdo ,138,, does139VVZdo n't140RBn't that141IN/thatthat moot142JJmoot out143INout certain144JJcertain of145INof your146PP$your claims147NNSclaim ,148,, particularly149RBparticularly I150PPI thought151VVDthink much152RBmuch of153INof the154DTthe prep155NNprep work156NNwork and157CCand dangers158NNSdanger related159VVNrelate to160TOto him161PPhim choking162VVGchoke on163INon his164PP$his own165JJown blood166NNblood .167SENT. Does168VVZdo n't169RBn't the170DTthe trach171NNtrach minimize172VVminimize that173IN/thatthat now174RBnow ?175SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]176LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yeah177NPYeah .178SENT. So179RBso ,180,, first181RBfirst ,182,, to183TOto answer184VVanswer your185PP$your question186NNquestion ,187,, as188INas you189PPyou know190VVPknow ,191,, we've192VVPwe've ...193:... we194PPwe 've195VHPhave requested196VVNrequest leave197VVleave to198TOto lodge199VVlodge the200DTthe medical201JJmedical records202NNSrecord from203INfrom the204DTthe summer205NNsummer .206SENT. I207PPI 'm208VBPbe happy209JJhappy to210TOto answer211VVanswer .212SENT. It213PPit 's214VBZbe obviously215RBobviously outside216INoutside the217DTthe record218NNrecord .219SENT. I220PPI just221RBjust want222VVPwant to223TOto make224VVmake that225DTthat clear226JJclear .227SENT. Right228RBright now229RBnow ,230,, as231RBas far232RBfar as233INas I234PPI know235VVPknow ,236,, he237PPhe still238RBstill has239VHZhave a240DTa trach241NNtrach in242INin .243SENT. There244EXthere is245VBZbe no246DTno indication247NNindication about248INabout how249WRBhow long250JJlong he251PPhe 's252VBZbe going253VVGgo to254TOto continue255VVcontinue to256TOto have257VHhave the258DTthe trach259NNtrach .260SENT. The261DTthe trach262NNtrach could263MDcould be264VBbe removed265VVNremove at266INat any267DTany time268NNtime that269IN/thatthat the270DTthe medical271JJmedical people272NNSpeople determine273VVPdetermine it274PPit 's275VBZbe appropriate276JJappropriate to277TOto do278VVdo so279RBso .280SENT. I281PPI do282VVPdo n't283RBn't think284VVthink it285PPit can286MDcan moot287VVmoot out288RPout the289DTthe case290NNcase because291INbecause without292INwithout ...293:... if294INif ...295:... if296INif the297DTthe trach298NNtrach is299VBZbe removed300VVNremove ,301,, all302RBall of303INof the304DTthe problems305NNSproblem return306NNreturn .307SENT. As308RBas for309INfor what310WPwhat would311MDwould happen312VVhappen if313INif the314DTthe trach315NNtrach was316VBDbe n't317RBn't removed318VVNremove ,319,, I320PPI think321VVPthink there322EXthere would323MDwould still324RBstill be325VBbe complications326NNScomplication that327WDTthat would328MDwould need329VVneed to330TOto be331VBbe investigated332VVNinvestigate .333SENT. It334PPit 's335VBZbe a336DTa completely337RBcompletely different338JJdifferent set339NNset of340INof circumstances341NNScircumstance .342SENT. It343PPit 's344VBZbe certainly345RBcertainly true346JJtrue the347DTthe core348NNcore ...349:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]350LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So351INso we352PPwe may353MDmay be354VBbe ...355:... we356PPwe may357MDmay be358VBbe issuing359VVGissue a360DTa decision361NNdecision on362INon ...363:... an364DTan advisory365JJadvisory decision366NNdecision because367INbecause ,368,, if369INif the370DTthe trach371NNtrach stays372VVZstay ,373,, it374PPit 's375VBZbe a376DTa totally377RBtotally different378JJdifferent case379NNcase than380INthan if381INif it382PPit is383VBZbe removed384VVNremove .385SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]386LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I387PPI do388VVPdo n't389RBn't think390VVthink it391PPit 's392VBZbe an393DTan advisory394JJadvisory decision395NNdecision ,396,, Your397PP$your Honor398NPHonor .399SENT. I400PPI think401VVPthink ...402:... I403PPI think404VVPthink the405DTthe problem406NNproblem is407VBZbe you408PPyou have409VHPhave a410DTa judgment411NNjudgment right412RBright now413RBnow that414DTthat says415VVZsay Missouri416NPMissouri can417MDcan go418VVgo ahead419RBahead and420CCand execute421VVexecute Mr422NPMr .423SENT. Bucklew424NPBucklew according425VVGaccord to426TOto the427DTthe protocol428NNprotocol that429IN/thatthat they430PPthey have431VHPhave in432INin place433NNplace .434SENT. And435CCand we436PPwe do437VVPdo n't438RBn't ...439:... at440INat this441DTthis point442NNpoint ,443,, we444PPwe cannot445MDcan say446VVsay he447PPhe certainly448RBcertainly is449VBZbe in450INin imminent451JJimminent danger452NNdanger if453INif that454DTthat protocol455NNprotocol is456VBZbe used457VVNuse at458INat a459DTa ...460:... yet461RByet there462EXthere is463VBZbe no464DTno pending465VVGpend execution466NNexecution date467NNdate .468SENT. If469INif that470DTthat protocol471NNprotocol is472VBZbe used473VVNuse in474INin the475DTthe future476NNfuture ,477,, I478PPI do479VVPdo n't480RBn't know481VVknow whether482INwhether the483DTthe bleeding484VVGbleed problems485NNSproblem complicate486VVcomplicate the487DTthe trach488NNtrach for489INfor him490PPhim .491SENT. That492DTthat 's493VBZbe just494RBjust never495RBnever been496VBNbe investigated497VVNinvestigate .498SENT. And499CCand I500PPI also501RBalso do502VVPdo n't503RBn't know504VVknow if505INif the506DTthe trach507NNtrach 's508VBZbe even509RBeven going510VVGgo to511TOto be512VBbe there513RBthere .514SENT. And515CCand if516INif the517DTthe trach518NNtrach is519VBZbe n't520RBn't going521VVGgo to522TOto be523VBbe there524RBthere ,525,, Justice526NPJustice Sotomayor527NPSotomayor ...528:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]529LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] How530WRBHow long531RBlong has532VHZhave he533PPhe had534VHDhave it535PPit now536RBnow ?537SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]538LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] It539PPit was540VBDbe put541VVNput in542INin in543INin June544NPJune .545SENT. Part546NNpart of547INof the548DTthe reason549NNreason he550PPhe may551MDmay ...552:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]553LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Is554VBZbe n't555RBn't it556PPit your557PP$your job558NNjob to559TOto find560VVfind out561RPout if562INif it563PPit can564MDcan be565VBbe removed566VVNremove now567RBnow ?568SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]569LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Well570UHwell ,571,, it572PPit ...573:... it574PPit certainly575RBcertainly can576MDcan be577VBbe removed578VVNremove .579SENT. The580DTthe question581NNquestion is582VBZbe ...583:... it584PPit 's585VBZbe ...586:... is587VBZbe he's588JJhe's ...589:... he590PPhe 's591VHZhave got592VVNget a593DTa progressive594JJprogressive condition595NNcondition that596WDTthat 's597VBZbe ,598,, you599PPyou know600VVPknow ,601,, discussed602VVNdiscuss in603INin the604DTthe record605NNrecord .606SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]607LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] I608PPI ...609:... I610PPI ...611:... I612PPI ...613:... [MR. HOCHMAN]614LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] And615CCand so616RBso ...617:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]618LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...619:... I620PPI 'm621VBPbe a622DTa little623JJlittle bit624NNbit upset625VVDupset that626IN/thatthat you627PPyou would628MDwould come629VVcome in630RPin and631CCand lodge632VVlodge medical633JJmedical records634NNSrecord without635INwithout having636VHGhave secured637VVNsecure the638DTthe information639NNinformation of640INof whether641INwhether he642PPhe 's643VBZbe physically644RBphysically capable645JJcapable of646INof having647VHGhave the648DTthe trach649NNtrach removed650VVNremove or651CCor not652RBnot .653SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]654LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So655INso the656DTthe ...657:... this658DTthis is659VBZbe what660WPwhat we661PPwe know662VVPknow about663RBabout why664RBwhy ...665:... I666PPI do667VVPdo n't668RBn't know669VVknow whether670INwhether this671DTthis is672VBZbe the673DTthe precise674JJprecise reason675NNreason ,676,, but677CCbut he678PPhe is679VBZbe scheduled680VVNschedule to681TOto have682VHhave dental683JJdental surgery684NNsurgery for685INfor a686DTa ...687:... for688INfor a689DTa tooth690NNtooth issue691NNissue that692WDTthat ,693,, you694PPyou know695VVPknow ,696,, because697INbecause his698PP$his mouth699NNmouth is700VBZbe so701RBso prone702JJprone to703TOto infection704NNinfection .705SENT. So706RBso he707PPhe 's708VBZbe going709VVGgo to710TOto have711VHhave dental712JJdental surgery713NNsurgery .714SENT. My715PP$my suspicion716NNsuspicion is717VBZbe that718IN/thatthat they719PPthey 're720VBPbe leaving721VVGleave the722DTthe trach723NNtrach in724INin for725INfor the726DTthe surgery727NNsurgery .728SENT. They729PPthey do730VVPdo n't731RBn't want732VVwant to733TOto take734VVtake the735DTthe trach736NNtrach out737RBout ...738:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]739LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] I740PPI really741RBreally do742VVPdo n't743RBn't like744VVlike suspicion745NNsuspicion .746SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]747LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] ...748:... prior749RBprior to750TOto the751DTthe surgery752NNsurgery .753SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]754LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But755CCbut go756VVgo ahead757RBahead .758SENT. Assuming759VVGassume nothing760NNnothing ,761,, because762INbecause I763PPI do764VVPdo n't765RBn't know766VVknow what767WPwhat 's768VBZbe going769VVGgo to770TOto happen771VVhappen ,772,, it773PPit appears774VVZappear that775IN/thatthat your776PP$your Dr777NNDr .778SENT. Zivot779NPZivot was780VBDbe misreading781VVGmisread the782DTthe horse783NNhorse study784NNstudy ,785,, that786IN/thatthat his787PP$his four-minute788JJfour-minute estimate789NNestimate had790VHDhave to791TOto do792VVdo with793INwith a794DTa different795JJdifferent study796NNstudy having797VHGhave to798TOto do799VVdo with800INwith a801DTa dog802NNdog and803CCand a804DTa different805JJdifferent agent806NNagent ,807,, not808RBnot the809DTthe agent810NNagent at811INat issue812NNissue here813RBhere .814SENT. Given815VVNgive that816IN/thatthat without817INwithout that818DTthat study819NNstudy there820EXthere 's821VBZbe no822DTno basis823NNbasis to824TOto believe825VVbelieve that826IN/thatthat this827DTthis ...828:... that829DTthat pentobarbital830NNpentobarbital would831MDwould take832VVtake four833CDfour minutes834NNSminute to835TOto ...836:... to837TOto take838VVtake effect839NNeffect ,840,, it841PPit would842MDwould likely843RBlikely be844VBbe ...845:... I846PPI think847VVPthink it848PPit was849VBDbe ...850:... the851DTthe figures852NNSfigure were853VBDbe at854INat maximum855JJmaximum 52856CD@card@ and857CCand the858DTthe average859NNaverage is860VBZbe 20861CD@card@ to862TOto 30863CD@card@ seconds864NNSsecond .865SENT. That866DTthat 's867VBZbe the868DTthe only869JJonly evidence870NNevidence in871INin the872DTthe record873NNrecord .874SENT. Is875VBZbe there876RBthere anything877NNanything left878VVNleave to879TOto your880PP$your case881NNcase once882INonce that883DTthat information884NNinformation is885VBZbe eliminated886VVNeliminate ...887:... [MR. HOCHMAN]888LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So889RBso ...890:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]891LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...892:... that893DTthat factual894JJfactual misstatement895NNmisstatement ?896SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]897LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yes898NPYes ,899,, there900EXthere is901VBZbe ,902,, Your903PP$your Honor904NPHonor .905SENT. Two906CDTwo things907NNSthing to908TOto say909VVsay about910INabout that911DTthat .912SENT. First913RBfirst ,914,, in915INin fact916NNfact ,917,, the918DTthe maximum919JJmaximum period920NNperiod of921INof time922NNtime in923INin that924DTthat study925NNstudy ,926,, if927INif you928PPyou ...929:... if930INif you931PPyou actually932RBactually time933VVtime it934PPit from935INfrom the936DTthe beginning937NNbeginning of938INof the939DTthe infusion940NNinfusion all941RBall the942DTthe way943NNway through944INthrough the945DTthe ...946:... the947DTthe time948NNtime that949IN/thatthat the950DTthe EEG951NPEEG reads952VVZread zero953CDzero ,954,, is955VBZbe 161956CD@card@ seconds957NNSsecond ,958,, almost959RBalmost three960CDthree minutes961NNSminute .962SENT. It963PPit is964VBZbe true965JJtrue that966IN/thatthat he967PPhe missed968VVDmiss ...969:... that970DTthat ...971:... that972IN/thatthat he973PPhe misremembered974VVDmisremembered the975DTthe time976NNtime .977SENT. That978WDTthat you979PPyou ...980:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]981LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But982CCbut the983DTthe ...984:... [MR. HOCHMAN]985LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] What986WPWhat you987PPyou have988VHPhave to989TOto do990VVdo is991VBZbe you992PPyou have993VHPhave to994TOto look995VVlook at996INat the997DTthe study998NNstudy .999SENT. I1000PPI went1001VVDgo back1002RBback and1003CCand we1004PPwe looked1005VVDlook at1006INat the1007DTthe study1008NNstudy .1009SENT. There1010EXthere 's1011VBZbe a1012DTa wide1013JJwide range1014NNrange of1015INof infusion1016NNinfusion times1017NNStime in1018INin that1019DTthat study1020NNstudy ,1021,, 281022CD@card@ seconds1023NNSsecond to1024TOto seconds1025NNSsecond .1026SENT. And1027CCand that1028WDTthat ,1029,, just1030RBjust for1031INfor reference1032NNreference ,1033,, Your1034PP$your Honor1035NPHonor ,1036,, the1037DTthe infusion1038NNinfusion times1039NNStime in1040INin the1041DTthe study1042NNstudy referred1043VVDrefer to1044TOto are1045VBPbe at1046INat ,1047,, I1048PPI think1049VVPthink ...1050:... I1051PPI think1052VVPthink it1053PPit 's1054VBZbe about1055RBabout ...1056:... yeah1057RByeah ,1058,, it1059PPit 's1060VBZbe JA1061NPJa 2651062CD@card@ ,1063,, appendix1064NNappendix page1065NNpage 2651066CD@card@ .1067SENT. And1068CCand it1069PPit talks1070VVZtalk about1071INabout the1072DTthe ...1073:... the1074DTthe infusion1075NNinfusion rate1076NNrate .1077SENT. The1078DTthe other1079JJother thing1080NNthing that1081IN/thatthat study1082NNstudy indicates1083VVZindicate ,1084,, which1085WDTwhich is1086VBZbe also1087RBalso confirmed1088VVNconfirm by1089INby Dr1090NPDr .1091SENT. Antognini1092NPAntognini 's1093POS's testimony1094NNtestimony at1095INat page1096NNpage 3161097CD@card@ ,1098,, is1099VBZbe that1100IN/thatthat the1101DTthe slower1102JJRslow you1103PPyou infuse1104VVPinfuse ,1105,, the1106DTthe longer1107RBRlonger it1108PPit will1109MDwill take1110VVtake for1111INfor the1112DTthe drug1113NNdrug to1114TOto take1115VVtake effect1116NNeffect .1117SENT. Now1118RBnow here1119RBhere 's1120VBZbe what1121WPwhat happened1122VVDhappen in1123INin the1124DTthe horse1125NNhorse study1126NNstudy :1127:: There1128EXthere was1129VBDbe ...1130:... for1131INfor the1132DTthe slowest1133JJSslow horse1134NNhorse ,1135,, that1136WDTthat ...1137:... the1138DTthe slowest1139JJSslow infusion1140NNinfusion rate1141NNrate ,1142,, 1151143CD@card@ seconds1144NNSsecond ,1145,, that1146DTthat horse1147NNhorse took1148VVDtake the1149DTthe longest1150JJSlong time1151NNtime ,1152,, which1153WDTwhich is1154VBZbe exactly1155RBexactly what1156WPwhat you1157PPyou 'd1158MDwould expect1159VVexpect .1160SENT. Right1161RBright ?1162SENT? That1163DTthat ...1164:... the1165DTthe horses1166NNShorse were1167VBDbe infused1168VVNinfuse with1169INwith four1170CDfour times1171NNStime ,1172,, four1173CDfour times1174NNStime ,1175,, the1176DTthe amount1177NNamount of1178INof pentobarbital1179NNpentobarbital .1180SENT. They1181PPthey 're1182VBPbe much1183RBmuch bigger1184JJRbig than1185INthan their1186PP$their ...1187:... than1188INthan human1189JJhuman beings1190NNSbeing and1191CCand so1192INso they1193PPthey ...1194:... they1195PPthey take1196VVPtake about1197RBabout four1198CDfour times1199NNStime .1200SENT. Dr1201NPDr .1202SENT. Antognini1203NPAntognini testified1204VVDtestify that1205IN/thatthat he1206PPhe would1207MDwould expect1208VVexpect 1001209CD@card@ seconds1210NNSsecond ,1211,, just1212RBjust ...1213:... you1214PPyou know1215VVPknow ,1216,, about1217RBabout one1218CDone second1219NNsecond per1220INper cc1221NNcc ,1222,, so1223INso something1224NNsomething a1225DTa little1226JJlittle bit1227NNbit more1228JJRmore than1229INthan 1001230CD@card@ seconds1231NNSsecond for1232INfor Mr1233NPMr ...1234:... .1235SENT. for1236INfor Mr1237NPMr .1238SENT. Bucklew1239NPBucklew 's1240POS's infusion1241NNinfusion to1242TOto take1243VVtake place1244NNplace .1245SENT. So1246RBso it1247PPit 's1248VBZbe the1249DTthe same1250JJsame amount1251NNamount of1252INof infusion1253NNinfusion time1254NNtime for1255INfor the1256DTthe horse1257NNhorse ,1258,, except1259INexcept it1260PPit 's1261VBZbe four1262CDfour times1263NNStime as1264RBas much1265RBmuch .1266SENT. So1267RBso ...1268:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1269LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] That1270DTthat 's1271VBZbe to1272TOto ...1273:... your1274PP$your termination1275NNtermination point1276NNpoint at1277INat that1278DTthat is1279VBZbe when1280WRBwhen the1281DTthe EEG1282NPEEG is1283VBZbe zero1284CDzero ,1285,, right1286RBright ?1287SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]1288LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] That1289DTthat 's1290VBZbe correct1291JJcorrect ,1292,, on1293INon those1294DTthose studies1295NNSstudy .1296SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1297LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] But1298CCbut ...1299:... but1300CCbut ,1301,, for1302INfor major1303JJmajor surgery1304NNsurgery ,1305,, they1306PPthey do1307VVPdo n't1308RBn't wait1309VVwait until1310INuntil the1311DTthe EEG1312NPEEG is1313VBZbe zero1314CDzero .1315SENT. It's1316NPIt's ,1317,, what1318WPwhat ,1319,, 401320CD@card@ or1321CCor 501322CD@card@ ,1323,, something1324NNsomething like1325INlike that1326DTthat ?1327SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]1328LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] That1329DTthat 's1330VBZbe right1331JJright ,1332,, Your1333PP$your Honor1334NPHonor .1335SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1336LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So1337INso why1338WRBwhy are1339VBPbe we1340PPwe concerned1341VVNconcern about1342INabout the1343DTthe time1344NNtime to1345TOto get1346VVget to1347TOto zero1348CDzero ?1349SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]1350LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Well1351UHWell ,1352,, because1353INbecause there1354EXthere 's1355VBZbe no1356DTno ...1357:... there1358EXthere 's1359VBZbe no1360DTno way1361NNway to1362TOto measure1363VVmeasure exactly1364RBexactly when1365WRBwhen ...1366:... there1367EXthere is1368VBZbe no1369DTno studies1370NNSstudy and1371CCand there1372EXthere 's1373VBZbe no1374DTno way1375NNway to1376TOto measure1377VVmeasure exactly1378RBexactly when1379WRBwhen you1380PPyou pass1381VVPpass through1382INthrough the1383DTthe various1384JJvarious stages1385NNSstage of1386INof consciousness1387NNconsciousness .1388SENT. And1389CCand so1390RBso ...1391:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1392LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well1393UHwell ,1394,, I1395PPI do1396VVPdo n't1397RBn't know1398VVknow ,1399,, but1400CCbut they1401PPthey 're1402VBPbe ...1403:... they1404PPthey ...1405:... they1406PPthey undertake1407VVPundertake major1408JJmajor surgery1409NNsurgery with1410INwith the1411DTthe EEG1412NNEEG at1413INat a1414DTa much1415JJmuch ...1416:... [MR. HOCHMAN]1417LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] But1418CCbut ...1419:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1420LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...1421:... higher1422JJRhigh level1423NNlevel than1424INthan you1425PPyou 're1426VBPbe talking1427VVGtalk about1428RBabout ...1429:... [MR. HOCHMAN]1430LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] But1431CCbut there1432EXthere 's1433VBZbe no1434DTno ...1435:... but1436CCbut there1437EXthere 's1438VBZbe no1439DTno particular1440JJparticular reason1441NNreason to1442TOto believe1443VVbelieve that1444IN/thatthat you1445PPyou get1446VVPget ...1447:... it1448PPit 's1449VBZbe ...1450:... well1451UHwell ,1452,, that1453WDTthat ...1454:... first1455RBfirst of1456INof all1457DTall ,1458,, that1459WDTthat ...1460:... that1461DTthat ...1462:... that1463DTthat reading1464NNreading ,1465,, those1466DTthose ...1467:... those1468DTthose ranges1469NNSrange are1470VBPbe somewhat1471RBsomewhat disputed1472VVNdispute in1473INin the1474DTthe science1475NNscience ,1476,, but1477CCbut ,1478,, regardless1479RBregardless ,1480,, the1481DTthe point1482NNpoint is1483VBZbe there1484EXthere 's1485VBZbe no1486DTno reason1487NNreason to1488TOto believe1489VVbelieve that1490IN/thatthat it1491PPit takes1492VVZtake very1493RBvery long1494JJlong to1495TOto get1496VVget from1497INfrom the1498DTthe level1499NNlevel at1500INat which1501WDTwhich you1502PPyou 're1503VBPbe ...1504:... you1505PPyou 're1506VBPbe ...1507:... you1508PPyou 're1509VBPbe ...1510:... you1511PPyou 're1512VBPbe prepped1513VVNprepped for1514INfor surgery1515NNsurgery ,1516,, so1517RBso to1518TOto speak1519VVspeak ,1520,, and1521CCand all1522PDTall the1523DTthe way1524NNway to1525TOto zero1526CDzero .1527SENT. And1528CCand that1529DTthat ...1530:... [JUSTICE ALITO]1531LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Why1532WRBwhy is1533VBZbe that1534RBthat ?1535SENT? Why1536WRBwhy is1537VBZbe there1538RBthere no1539DTno reason1540NNreason to1541TOto believe1542VVbelieve that1543DTthat ?1544SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]1545LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Why1546NPWhy is1547VBZbe there1548RBthere no1549DTno reason1550NNreason to1551TOto believe1552VVbelieve that1553DTthat ?1554SENT? [JUSTICE ALITO]1555LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Yeah1556NPYeah .1557SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]1558LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Because1559INbecause it1560PPit ...1561:... there1562EXthere 's1563VBZbe ...1564:... well1565RBwell ,1566,, at1567INat this1568DTthis point1569NNpoint ,1570,, there1571EXthere 's1572VBZbe nothing1573NNnothing in1574INin the1575DTthe record1576NNrecord ,1577,, but1578CCbut there1579EXthere 's1580VBZbe also1581RBalso no1582RBno ...1583:... [JUSTICE ALITO]1584LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Well1585UHwell ,1586,, there1587EXthere 's1588VBZbe nothing1589NNnothing in1590INin the1591DTthe record1592NNrecord ...1593:... [MR. HOCHMAN]1594LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] ...1595:... there1596EXthere 's1597VBZbe no1598DTno real1599JJreal way1600NNway to1601TOto measure1602VVmeasure that1603DTthat .1604SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]1605LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] ...1606:... to1607TOto show1608VVshow one1609CDone way1610NNway or1611CCor the1612DTthe other1613JJother .1614SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]1615LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] There's1616NPThere's ...1617:... but1618CCbut ...1619:... and1620CCand there1621EXthere 's1622VBZbe ...1623:... it1624PPit 's1625VBZbe ...1626:... it1627PPit 's1628VBZbe a1629DTa difficult1630JJdifficult situation1631NNsituation to1632TOto measure1633VVmeasure for1634INfor obvious1635JJobvious reasons1636NNSreason .1637SENT. We1638PPwe do1639VVPdo n't1640RBn't do1641VVdo ...1642:... we1643PPwe do1644VVPdo n't1645RBn't conduct1646VVconduct experiments1647NNSexperiment in1648INin this1649DTthis sort1650NNsort ...1651:... in1652INin this1653DTthis sort1654NNsort of1655INof field1656NNfield .1657SENT. And1658CCand so1659RBso we1660PPwe 're1661VBPbe working1662VVGwork with1663INwith the1664DTthe information1665NNinformation as1666INas best1667JJSgood we1668PPwe can1669MDcan .1670SENT. And1671CCand what1672WPwhat I1673PPI 'm1674VBPbe trying1675VVGtry to1676TOto emphasize1677VVemphasize here1678RBhere is1679VBZbe that1680IN/thatthat the1681DTthe infusion1682NNinfusion rate1683NNrate for1684INfor Mr1685NPMr .1686SENT. Bucklew1687NPBucklew ,1688,, especially1689RBespecially compared1690VVNcompare to1691TOto the1692DTthe horse1693NNhorse study1694NNstudy ,1695,, is1696VBZbe substantially1697RBsubstantially slower1698JJRslow as1699INas a1700DTa proportional1701JJproportional matter1702NNmatter .1703SENT. And1704CCand that1705DTthat 's1706VBZbe good1707JJgood reason1708NNreason to1709TOto believe1710VVbelieve that1711DTthat Dr1712NNDr .1713SENT. Zivot1714NPZivot 's1715POS's fundamental1716JJfundamental estimate1717NNestimate that1718IN/thatthat there1719EXthere 's1720VBZbe going1721VVGgo to1722TOto be1723VBbe a1724DTa prolonged1725JJprolonged period1726NNperiod of1727INof suffering1728NNsuffering ,1729,, he1730PPhe ...1731:... he1732PPhe admittedly1733RBadmittedly was1734VBDbe n't1735RBn't precise1736JJprecise .1737SENT. And1738CCand ...1739:... and1740CCand ,1741,, Justice1742NPJustice Sotomayor1743NPSotomayor ,1744,, you1745PPyou 're1746VBPbe absolutely1747RBabsolutely right1748JJright that1749IN/thatthat I1750PPI think1751VVPthink he1752PPhe just1753RBjust crossed1754VVDcross up1755RPup the1756DTthe numbers1757NNSnumber in1758INin his1759PP$his head1760NNhead from1761INfrom the1762DTthe study1763NNstudy .1764SENT. But1765CCbut that1766DTthat does1767VVZdo n't1768RBn't change1769VVchange the1770DTthe fact1771NNfact that1772IN/thatthat there1773EXthere 's1774VBZbe going1775VVGgo to1776TOto be1777VBbe several1778JJseveral minutes1779NNSminute .1780SENT. And1781CCand that1782DTthat 's1783VBZbe only1784RBonly counting1785VVGcount after1786INafter they1787PPthey gain1788VVPgain venous1789JJvenous access1790NNaccess .1791SENT. The1792DTthe ...1793:... the1794DTthe ...1795:... a1796DTa ...1797:... a1798DTa large1799JJlarge part1800NNpart of1801INof the1802DTthe claim1803NNclaim here1804RBhere is1805VBZbe what1806WPwhat 's1807VBZbe going1808VVGgo to1809TOto happen1810VVhappen before1811INbefore they1812PPthey gain1813VVPgain venous1814JJvenous access1815NNaccess ,1816,, and1817CCand that1818DTthat 's1819VBZbe very1820RBvery ,1821,, very1822RBvery important1823JJimportant .1824SENT. And1825CCand note1826NNnote ,1827,, Judge1828NPJudge Colloton1829NPColloton 's1830POS's dissent1831NNdissent specifically1832RBspecifically talked1833VVDtalk about1834INabout the1835DTthe trial1836NNtrial ,1837,, the1838NPthe ...1839:... one1840CDone of1841INof the1842DTthe things1843NNSthing he1844PPhe thought1845VVDthink needed1846VVNneed to1847TOto be1848VBbe hashed1849VVNhash out1850RPout at1851INat a1852DTa trial1853NNtrial is1854VBZbe not1855RBnot only1856RBonly ,1857,, you1858PPyou know1859VVPknow ,1860,, this1861DTthis debate1862NNdebate between1863INbetween Drs1864NNSDr .1865SENT. Zivot1866NPZivot and1867CCand Antognini1868NPAntognini but1869CCbut also1870RBalso whether1871INwhether he1872PPhe 'll1873MDwill be1874VBbe required1875VVNrequire to1876TOto lie1877VVlie flat1878JJflat ,1879,, which1880WDTwhich we1881PPwe 've1882VHPhave now1883RBnow learned1884VVNlearn new1885JJnew information1886NNinformation about1887RBabout since1888INsince Judge1889NPJudge Colloton1890NPColloton wrote1891VVDwrite that1892DTthat opinion1893NNopinion ,1894,, and1895CCand whether1896INwhether his1897PP$his airway1898NNairway will1899MDwill ...1900:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]1901LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] I1902PPI 'm1903VBPbe sorry1904JJsorry ,1905,, what1906WDTwhat ...1907:... what1908WPwhat new1909JJnew facts1910NNSfact ?1911SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]1912LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Well1913UHWell ,1914,, that1915WDTthat 's1916VBZbe the1917DTthe ...1918:... the1919DTthe ...1920:... at1921INat page1922NNpage 8821923CD@card@ of1924INof the1925DTthe appendix1926NNappendix ,1927,, the1928DTthe statement1929NNstatement from1930INfrom Ms1931NNMs .1932SENT. Boyles1933NPBoyles that1934IN/thatthat he1935PPhe will1936MDwill lie1937VVlie flat1938JJflat ,1939,, he1940PPhe will1941MDwill not1942RBnot lie1943VVlie fully1944RBfully supine1945JJsupine at1946INat the1947DTthe time1948NNtime they1949PPthey administer1950VVPadminister the1951DTthe lethal1952JJlethal drug1953NNdrug ,1954,, which1955WDTwhich I1956PPI take1957VVPtake to1958TOto be1959VBbe strong1960JJstrong evidence1961NNevidence ,1962,, actually1963RBactually .1964SENT. They1965PPthey had1966VHDhave time1967NNtime to1968TOto think1969VVthink about1970INabout this1971DTthis ,1972,, they1973PPthey had1974VHDhave time1975NNtime to1976TOto make1977VVmake a1978DTa decision1979NNdecision about1980INabout what1981WPwhat they1982PPthey wanted1983VVDwant to1984TOto represent1985VVrepresent ,1986,, and1987CCand what1988WPwhat they1989PPthey chose1990VVDchoose to1991TOto say1992VVsay is1993VBZbe we1994PPwe 'll1995MDwill make1996VVmake sure1997JJsure he1998PPhe 's1999VBZbe not2000RBnot lying2001VVGlie flat2002JJflat at2003INat the2004DTthe time2005NNtime they2006PPthey begin2007VVPbegin the2008DTthe ...2009:... the2010DTthe infusion2011NNinfusion .2012SENT. That2013DTthat 's2014VBZbe critical2015JJcritical ,2016,, because2017INbecause a2018DTa large2019JJlarge part2020NNpart ...2021:... if2022INif we2023PPwe must2024MDmust prove2025VVprove ,2026,, as2027RBas ...2028:... as2029INas Judge2030NPJudge Colloton2031NPColloton observed2032VVDobserve ,2033,, if2034INif we2035PPwe must2036MDmust prove2037VVprove that2038IN/thatthat the2039DTthe available2040JJavailable alternative2041NNalternative method2042NNmethod will2043MDwill substantially2044RBsubstantially reduce2045VVreduce Mr2046NPMr .2047SENT. Bucklew2048NPBucklew 's2049POS's risk2050NNrisk of2051INof suffering2052NNsuffering ...2053:... and2054CCand ,2055,, as2056INas you2057PPyou know2058VVPknow ,2059,, we2060PPwe do2061VVPdo n't2062RBn't ...2063:... we2064PPwe do2065VVPdo n't2066RBn't think2067VVthink that2068WDTthat 's2069VBZbe necessary2070JJnecessary ...2071:... but2072CCbut if2073INif we2074PPwe must2075MDmust ,2076,, we2077PPwe will2078MDwill explain2079VVexplain that2080IN/thatthat the2081DTthe risk2082NNrisk arises2083VVZarise early2084RBearly in2085INin the2086DTthe execution2087NNexecution process2088NNprocess and2089CCand remains2090VVZremain high2091JJhigh throughout2092INthroughout ,2093,, through2094INthrough the2095DTthe period2096NNperiod that2097IN/thatthat Dr2098NPDr .2099SENT. Zivot2100NPZivot talked2101VVDtalk about2102RBabout .2103SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]2104LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Is2105VBZbe that2106IN/thatthat because2107INbecause of2108INof the2109DTthe injection2110NNinjection difficulties2111NNSdifficulty ?2112SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]2113LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] That's2114NPThat's ...2115:... right2116NNright .2117SENT. It2118PPit ...2119:... it2120PPit ...2121:... it2122PPit ...2123:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]2124LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well2125UHWell ,2126,, does2127VVZdo that2128DTthat include2129VVPinclude the2130DTthe femoral2131JJfemoral injection2132NNinjection option2133NNoption ,2134,, or2135CCor are2136VBPbe you2137PPyou only2138RBonly talking2139VVGtalk about2140INabout the2141DTthe regular2142JJregular veins2143NNSvein ?2144SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]2145LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] We2146PPwe 're2147VBPbe talking2148VVGtalk about2149INabout the2150DTthe femoral2151JJfemoral .2152SENT. I2153PPI ...2154:... I2155PPI ...2156:... I2157PPI think2158VVPthink ...2159:... I2160PPI think2161VVPthink it2162PPit 's2163VBZbe more2164JJRmore or2165CCor less2166RBRless agreed2167VVDagree that2168IN/thatthat at2169INat this2170DTthis sum2171NNsum ...2172:... remember2173VVremember ,2174,, this2175DTthis is2176VBZbe summary2177NNsummary judgment2178NNjudgment ...2179:... so2180RBso ,2181,, at2182INat this2183DTthis posture2184NNposture of2185INof the2186DTthe case2187NNcase ,2188,, there2189EXthere 's2190VBZbe substantial2191JJsubstantial reason2192NNreason why2193WRBwhy a2194DTa fact-finder2195NNfact-finder would2196MDwould conclude2197VVconclude that2198IN/thatthat the2199DTthe peripheral2200JJperipheral access2201NNaccess is2202VBZbe going2203VVGgo to2204TOto fail2205VVfail .2206SENT. And2207CCand as2208INas I2209PPI read2210VVPread the2211DTthe Respondent2212NNrespondent 's2213POS's brief2214NNbrief ,2215,, I2216PPI mean2217VVPmean they2218PPthey make2219VVmake nods2220NNSnod in2221INin ...2222:... in2223INin ...2224:... in2225INin the2226DTthe other2227JJother direction2228NNdirection ,2229,, but2230CCbut ,2231,, essentially2232RBessentially ,2233,, they2234PPthey accept2235VVPaccept ,2236,, the2237DTthe district2238NNdistrict court2239NNcourt accepted2240VVDaccept ,2241,, the2242DTthe court2243NNcourt of2244INof appeals2245NNSappeal accepted2246VVDaccept that2247IN/thatthat there2248EXthere 's2249VBZbe going2250VVGgo to2251TOto be2252VBbe ...2253:... they2254PPthey 're2255VBPbe going2256VVGgo to2257TOto access2258VVaccess the2259DTthe femoral2260JJfemoral vein2261NNvein .2262SENT. We2263PPwe do2264VVPdo not2265RBnot deny2266VVdeny ...2267:... we2268PPwe do2269VVPdo not2270RBnot deny2271VVdeny that2272IN/thatthat they2273PPthey can2274MDcan access2275VVaccess the2276DTthe femoral2277JJfemoral vein2278NNvein .2279SENT. That2280DTthat 's2281VBZbe going2282VVGgo to2283TOto happen2284VVhappen .2285SENT. We2286PPwe 're2287VBPbe not2288RBnot denying2289VVGdeny that2290DTthat .2291SENT. The2292DTthe question2293NNquestion is2294VBZbe how2295WRBhow horrible2296JJhorrible is2297VBZbe that2298IN/thatthat going2299VVGgo to2300TOto be2301VBbe for2302INfor him2303PPhim .2304SENT. The2305DTthe last2306JJlast time2307NNtime they2308PPthey accessed2309VVDaccess the2310DTthe femoral2311JJfemoral vein2312NNvein of2313INof an2314DTan inmate2315NNinmate because2316INbecause they2317PPthey failed2318VVDfail to2319TOto gain2320VVgain venous2321JJvenous access2322NNaccess ...2323:... and2324CCand this2325DTthis is2326VBZbe at2327INat page2328NNpage 6112329CD@card@ and2330CCand 6122331CD@card@ of2332INof the2333DTthe appendix2334NNappendix ...2335:... they2336PPthey did2337VVDdo it2338PPit through2339INthrough this2340DTthis cut-down2341JJcut-down procedure2342NNprocedure .2343SENT. And2344CCand the2345DTthe cut-down2346JJcut-down procedure2347NNprocedure ,2348,, they2349PPthey have2350VHPhave the2351DTthe kit2352NNkit in2353INin the2354DTthe room2355NNroom ,2356,, that2357WDTthat 's2358VBZbe page2359NNpage 6152360CD@card@ to2361TOto 6162362CD@card@ ,2363,, this2364DTthis is2365VBZbe entirely2366RBentirely within2367INwithin the2368DTthe contemplation2369NNcontemplation ,2370,, what2371WPwhat they2372PPthey expect2373VVPexpect to2374TOto do2375VVdo .2376SENT. They2377PPthey are2378VBPbe dealing2379VVGdeal with2380INwith inmates2381NNSinmate after2382INafter all2383DTall .2384SENT. Compromised2385VVNcompromise veins2386NNSvein is2387VBZbe hardly2388RBhardly an2389DTan unusual2390JJunusual circumstance2391NNcircumstance for2392INfor them2393PPthem .2394SENT. So2395RBso ...2396:... so2397RBso they2398PPthey 're2399VBPbe going2400VVGgo to2401TOto have2402VHhave to2403TOto access2404VVaccess the2405DTthe femoral2406JJfemoral vein2407NNvein ,2408,, and2409CCand the2410DTthe cut-down2411JJcut-down procedure2412NNprocedure ...2413:... [JUSTICE ALITO]2414LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Well2415UHWell ,2416,, do2417VVPdo they2418PPthey have2419VHPhave a2420DTa ...2421:... do2422VVPdo they2423PPthey have2424VHPhave a2425DTa certified2426JJcertified anesthesiologist2427NNanesthesiologist available2428JJavailable and2429CCand did2430VVDdo Dr2431NPDr .2432SENT. Antognini2433NNSAntognini testify2434VVPtestify that2435IN/thatthat any2436DTany board2437NNboard certified2438JJcertified anesthesiologist2439NNanesthesiologist would2440MDwould be2441VBbe able2442JJable in2443INin ...2444:... in2445INin most2446JJSmost instances2447NNSinstance ,2448,, is2449VBZbe able2450JJable to2451TOto access2452VVaccess the2453DTthe femoral2454JJfemoral vein2455NNvein without2456INwithout a2457DTa cut-down2458JJcut-down procedure2459NNprocedure ?2460SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]2461LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Dr2462NPDr .2463SENT. Antognini2464NPAntognini did2465VVDdo say2466VVsay that2467IN/thatthat ,2468,, but2469CCbut then2470RBthen ...2471:... but2472CCbut the2473DTthe board2474NNboard certified2475JJcertified anesthesiologist2476NNanesthesiologist ...2477:... [JUSTICE ALITO]2478LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Is2479VBZbe there2480RBthere contrary2481JJcontrary ...2482:... is2483VBZbe there2484RBthere contrary2485JJcontrary evidence2486NNevidence ?2487SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]2488LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yes2489NPYes ,2490,, because2491INbecause the2492DTthe board2493NNboard certified2494VVDcertify anesthesiologist2495NNanesthesiologist that2496IN/thatthat I2497PPI 'm2498VBPbe referring2499VVGrefer to2500TOto who2501WPwho previously2502RBpreviously accessed2503VVDaccess the2504DTthe femoral2505JJfemoral vein2506NNvein via2507INvia cut-down2508NNcut-down is2509VBZbe the2510DTthe same2511JJsame person2512NNperson who2513WPwho 's2514VBZbe going2515VVGgo to2516TOto do2517VVdo Mr2518NPMr .2519SENT. Bucklew2520NPBucklew 's2521POS's execution2522NNexecution .2523SENT. Unless2524INunless they2525PPthey 've2526VHPhave changed2527VVNchange and2528CCand have2529VHPhave n't2530RBn't told2531VVNtell us2532PPus ,2533,, it2534PPit 's2535VBZbe the2536DTthe same2537JJsame person2538NNperson .2539SENT. So2540RBso whatever2541JJwhatever ,2542,, generally2543RBgenerally speaking2544VVGspeak ,2545,, and2546CCand what2547WPwhat Dr2548NNDr .2549SENT. Antognini2550NPAntognini said2551VVDsay ...2552:... let2553VVlet 's2554VBZbe be2555VBbe absolutely2556RBabsolutely clear2557JJclear about2558INabout this2559DTthis ...2560:... Dr2561NNDr .2562SENT. Antognini2563NPAntognini explained2564VVDexplain in2565INin his2566PP$his ...2567:... in2568INin his2569PP$his deposition2570NNdeposition ,2571,, he2572PPhe said2573VVDsay everyone2574NNeveryone who2575WPwho 's2576VBZbe board2577NNboard certified2578VVNcertify is2579VBZbe trained2580VVNtrain to2581TOto access2582VVaccess the2583DTthe femoral2584JJfemoral vein2585NNvein .2586SENT. But2587CCbut ,2588,, when2589WRBwhen asked2590VVNask point2591NNpoint blank2592NNblank does2593VVZdo everyone2594NNeveryone have2595VHPhave experience2596NNexperience doing2597VVGdo it2598PPit ,2599,, he2600PPhe said2601VVDsay no2602RBno .2603SENT. He2604PPhe said2605VVDsay you2606PPyou can2607MDcan go2608VVgo decades2609NNSdecade without2610INwithout doing2611VVGdo it2612PPit at2613INat all2614DTall and2615CCand you2616PPyou could2617MDcould lose2618VVlose the2619DTthe ability2620NNability to2621TOto do2622VVdo it2623PPit .2624SENT. And2625CCand now2626RBnow we2627PPwe have2628VHPhave ...2629:... of2630INof course2631NNcourse ,2632,, we2633PPwe have2634VHPhave n't2635RBn't had2636VHNhave discovery2637NNdiscovery of2638INof M22639NPM2 and2640CCand M32641NPM3 ,2642,, a2643DTa separate2644JJseparate issue2645NNissue that2646IN/thatthat I2647PPI 'll2648MDwill get2649VVget to2650TOto in2651INin a2652DTa moment2653NNmoment ,2654,, but2655CCbut what2656WPwhat we2657PPwe know2658VVPknow ,2659,, given2660VVNgive what2661WPwhat we2662PPwe 've2663VHPhave had2664VHDhave access2665NNaccess to2666TOto ,2667,, is2668VBZbe that2669IN/thatthat this2670DTthis person2671NNperson did2672VVDdo a2673DTa cut-down2674NNcut-down .2675SENT. And2676CCand a2677DTa cut-down2678NNcut-down ,2679,, the2680DTthe testimony2681NNtestimony is2682VBZbe ,2683,, can2684MDcan take2685VVtake 152686CD@card@ minutes2687NNSminute and2688CCand maybe2689RBmaybe more2690RBRmore .2691SENT. And2692CCand it2693PPit 's2694VBZbe carving2695VVGcarve into2696INinto his2697PP$his leg2698NNleg .2699SENT. So2700RBso let2701VVlet 's2702VBZbe paint2703VVpaint the2704DTthe whole2705JJwhole picture2706NNpicture here2707RBhere .2708SENT. He2709PPhe 's2710VBZbe lying2711VVGlie fat2712JJfat ...2713:... flat2714JJflat .2715SENT. That2716DTthat 's2717VBZbe what2718WPwhat the2719DTthe Boyles2720NPBoyles affidavit2721NNaffidavit says2722VVZsay .2723SENT. They2724PPthey 're2725VBPbe carving2726VVGcarve into2727INinto his2728PP$his leg2729NNleg ,2730,, causing2731VVGcause a2732DTa tremendous2733JJtremendous amount2734NNamount of2735INof stress2736NNstress .2737SENT. It2738PPit 's2739VBZbe the2740DTthe worst2741JJSbad possible2742JJpossible set2743NNset of2744INof circumstances2745NNScircumstance .2746SENT. There2747EXthere 's2748VBZbe little2749JJlittle doubt2750NNdoubt in2751INin my2752PP$my mind2753NNmind ,2754,, if2755INif he2756PPhe does2757VVZdo n't2758RBn't have2759VHhave a2760DTa trach2761NNtrach ...2762:... and2763CCand that2764DTthat 's2765VBZbe absolutely2766RBabsolutely true2767JJtrue ,2768,, Justice2769NPJustice Sotomayor2770NPSotomayor ...2771:... if2772INif he2773PPhe does2774VVZdo n't2775RBn't have2776VHhave a2777DTa trach2778NNtrach ,2779,, he2780PPhe would2781MDwould ...2782:... he2783PPhe would2784MDwould be2785VBbe suffering2786VVGsuffer enormously2787RBenormously ,2788,, suffocating2789VVGsuffocate ,2790,, having2791VHGhave difficulty2792NNdifficulty breathing2793NNbreathing ,2794,, and2795CCand it2796PPit ...2797:... this2798DTthis is2799VBZbe not2800RBnot a2801DTa short2802JJshort period2803NNperiod of2804INof time2805NNtime .2806SENT. If2807INif you2808PPyou look2809VVPlook ,2810,, I2811PPI can2812MDcan 't2813RB't state2814NNstate in2815INin open2816JJopen court2817NNcourt ...2818:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2819LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Is2820VBZbe there2821RBthere another2822DTanother alternative2823NNalternative to2824TOto the2825DTthe cut-down2826NNcut-down ...2827:... [MR. HOCHMAN]2828LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I2829PPI ...2830:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2831LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...2832:... to2833TOto access2834VVaccess the2835DTthe femoral2836JJfemoral vein2837NNvein ?2838SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]2839LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So2840RBso ...2841:... so2842RBso it2843PPit may2844MDmay ...2845:... if2846INif we2847PPwe had2848VHDhave discovery2849NNdiscovery of2850INof M22851NPM2 and2852CCand M32853NPM3 ,2854,, we2855PPwe could2856MDcould have2857VHhave a2858DTa conversation2859NNconversation with2860INwith them2861PPthem about2862RBabout whether2863INwhether they2864PPthey would2865MDwould use2866VVuse an2867DTan alternative2868NNalternative ,2869,, some2870DTsome other2871JJother procedure2872NNprocedure .2873SENT. But2874CCbut we2875PPwe have2876VHPhave n't2877RBn't had2878VHNhave the2879DTthe chance2880NNchance to2881TOto talk2882VVtalk with2883INwith them2884PPthem .2885SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2886LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Are2887VBPbe there2888RBthere any2889RBany ?2890SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]2891LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I2892PPI ...2893:... I2894PPI believe2895VVPbelieve there2896EXthere are2897VBPbe ,2898,, Your2899PP$your Honor2900NPHonor .2901SENT. I2902PPI do2903VVPdo ...2904:... I2905PPI believe2906VVPbelieve that2907IN/thatthat some2908DTsome people2909NNSpeople who2910WPwho are2911VBPbe skilled2912JJskilled and2913CCand have2914VHhave ...2915:... and2916CCand have2917VHPhave a2918DTa lot2919NNlot of2920INof experience2921NNexperience with2922INwith this2923DTthis can2924MDcan ...2925:... can2926MDcan ...2927:... you2928PPyou know2929VVPknow ,2930,, just2931RBjust can2932MDcan do2933VVdo it2934PPit ,2935,, sort2936RBsort of2937INof visualize2938VVvisualize where2939WRBwhere the2940DTthe femoral2941JJfemoral vein2942NNvein is2943VBZbe ,2944,, and2945CCand effectively2946RBeffectively do2947VVdo it2948PPit .2949SENT. The2950DTthe best2951JJSgood way2952NNway to2953TOto do2954VVdo it2955PPit that2956IN/thatthat you2957PPyou would2958MDwould use2959VVuse in2960INin a2961DTa surgical2962JJsurgical setting2963NNsetting ,2964,, according2965VVGaccord to2966TOto the2967DTthe testimony2968NNtestimony ,2969,, is2970VBZbe you2971PPyou bring2972VVPbring an2973DTan ultrasound2974NNultrasound in2975INin .2976SENT. There2977EXthere 's2978VBZbe no2979DTno suggestion2980NNsuggestion that2981IN/thatthat there2982EXthere be2983VBbe an2984DTan ultrasound2985NNultrasound in2986INin this2987DTthis case2988NNcase .2989SENT. But2990CCbut I2991PPI ...2992:... I2993PPI want2994VVPwant to2995TOto emphasize2996VVemphasize that2997IN/thatthat when2998WRBwhen they2999PPthey ...3000:... what3001WPwhat ...3002:... what3003WPwhat the3004DTthe record3005NNrecord shows3006VVZshow is3007VBZbe when3008WRBwhen they3009PPthey sit3010VVPsit ...3011:... when3012WRBwhen they3013PPthey start3014VVPstart this3015DTthis process3016NNprocess ,3017,, they3018PPthey 're3019VBPbe not3020RBnot going3021VVGgo to3022TOto be3023VBbe aware3024JJaware of3025INof the3026DTthe breathing3027NNbreathing issues3028NNSissue .3029SENT. That3030DTthat 's3031VBZbe what3032WPwhat happened3033VVDhappen last3034JJlast time3035NNtime .3036SENT. They3037PPthey got3038VVDget a3039DTa one-page3040NNone-page summary3041NNsummary of3042INof his3043PP$his condition3044NNcondition .3045SENT. It3046PPit mentioned3047VVDmention that3048IN/thatthat he3049PPhe has3050VHZhave cavernous3051JJcavernous hemangioma3052NNhemangioma on3053INon the3054DTthe face3055NNface and3056CCand lip3057NNlip .3058SENT. It3059PPit did3060VVDdo n't3061RBn't mention3062VVmention the3063DTthe tumor3064NNtumor in3065INin his3066PP$his throat3067NNthroat .3068SENT. It3069PPit did3070VVDdo not3071RBnot indicate3072VVindicate any3073DTany breathing3074NNbreathing issues3075NNSissue .3076SENT. Nothing3077NNnothing in3078INin the3079DTthe record3080NNrecord indicates3081VVZindicate they3082PPthey would3083MDwould check3084VVcheck Mr3085NPMr .3086SENT. Bucklew3087NPBucklew 's3088POS's airway3089NNairway .3090SENT. Nothing3091NNnothing in3092INin the3093DTthe record3094NNrecord indicates3095VVZindicate they3096PPthey normally3097RBnormally ,3098,, in3099INin the3100DTthe normal3101JJnormal course3102NNcourse ,3103,, would3104MDwould monitor3105VVmonitor an3106DTan inmate3107NNinmate 's3108POS's respiration3109NNrespiration .3110SENT. Nothing3111NNnothing in3112INin the3113DTthe record3114NNrecord suggests3115VVZsuggest they3116PPthey would3117MDwould have3118VHhave the3119DTthe equipment3120NNequipment present3121NNpresent in3122INin the3123DTthe room3124NNroom to3125TOto deal3126VVdeal with3127INwith an3128DTan airway3129NNairway collapse3130NNcollapse while3131INwhile he3132PPhe 's3133VBZbe on3134INon the3135DTthe ...3136:... the3137DTthe ...3138:... the3139DTthe table3140NNtable waiting3141VVGwait for3142INfor the3143DTthe drug3144NNdrug to3145TOto be3146VBbe infused3147VVNinfuse ,3148,, which3149WDTwhich is3150VBZbe a3151DTa very3152RBvery long3153JJlong period3154NNperiod of3155INof time3156NNtime .3157SENT. And3158CCand I3159PPI was3160VBDbe about3161RBabout to3162TOto say3163VVsay before3164RBbefore ,3165,, if3166INif you3167PPyou look3168VVPlook at3169INat pages3170NNSpage 9783171CD@card@ and3172CCand 9793173CD@card@ of3174INof the3175DTthe appendix3176NNappendix ,3177,, you3178PPyou 'll3179MDwill see3180VVsee how3181WRBhow far3182RBfar in3183INin advance3184NNadvance of3185INof the3186DTthe time3187NNtime they3188PPthey administer3189VVPadminister the3190DTthe lethal3191JJlethal drug3192NNdrug that3193IN/thatthat they3194PPthey begin3195VVPbegin the3196DTthe efforts3197NNSeffort to3198TOto gain3199VVgain venous3200JJvenous access3201NNaccess .3202SENT. He3203PPhe 's3204VBZbe lying3205VVGlie flat3206JJflat that3207IN/thatthat entire3208JJentire time3209NNtime ,3210,, the3211DTthe Boyles3212NPBoyles affidavit3213NNaffidavit tells3214VVZtell us3215PPus .3216SENT. He3217PPhe 's3218VBZbe struggled3219VVNstruggle through3220INthrough a3221DTa cut-down3222JJcut-down procedure3223NNprocedure .3224SENT. He3225PPhe 's3226VBZbe probably3227RBprobably bleeding3228VVGbleed from3229INfrom his3230PP$his tumor3231NNtumor .3232SENT. The3233DTthe risk3234NNrisk of3235INof a3236DTa airway3237NNairway collapse3238NNcollapse is3239VBZbe very3240RBvery high3241JJhigh .3242SENT. And3243CCand there3244EXthere 's3245VBZbe nothing3246NNnothing in3247INin the3248DTthe room3249NNroom to3250TOto deal3251VVdeal with3252INwith it3253PPit .3254SENT. So3255RBso I3256PPI do3257VVPdo n't3258RBn't think3259VVthink ...3260:... I3261PPI ...3262:... I3263PPI think3264VVPthink there3265EXthere 's3266VBZbe a3267DTa question3268NNquestion ...3269:... the3270DTthe trach3271NNtrach ...3272:... if3273INif they3274PPthey had3275VHDhave come3276VVNcome to3277TOto us3278PPus ,3279,, Justice3280NPJustice Sotomayor3281NPSotomayor ,3282,, and3283CCand said3284VVDsay ,3285,, you3286PPyou know3287VVPknow what3288WPwhat ,3289,, we3290PPwe 'll3291MDwill give3292VVgive you3293PPyou access3294NNaccess ,3295,, you3296PPyou ...3297:... you3298PPyou can3299MDcan talk3300VVtalk to3301TOto M23302NPM2 and3303CCand M33304NPM3 ,3305,, and3306CCand what3307WPwhat we3308PPwe think3309VVPthink they3310PPthey 're3311VBPbe going3312VVGgo to3313TOto ...3314:... they3315PPthey 're3316VBPbe going3317VVGgo to3318TOto do3319VVdo is3320VBZbe we3321PPwe 're3322VBPbe going3323VVGgo to3324TOto give3325VVgive them3326PPthem the3327DTthe information3328NNinformation that3329IN/thatthat they3330PPthey need3331VVPneed to3332TOto know3333VVknow what3334WPwhat problems3335NNSproblem are3336VBPbe very3337RBvery likely3338JJlikely to3339TOto arise3340VVarise .3341SENT. We3342PPwe 're3343VBPbe going3344VVGgo to3345TOto let3346VVlet them3347PPthem think3348VVthink about3349INabout it3350PPit ,3351,, you3352PPyou can3353MDcan talk3354VVtalk to3355TOto them3356PPthem ,3357,, and3358CCand maybe3359RBmaybe what3360WPwhat they3361PPthey 'll3362MDwill be3363VBbe able3364JJable to3365TOto do3366VVdo is3367VBZbe ,3368,, at3369INat the3370DTthe start3371NNstart of3372INof the3373DTthe process3374NNprocess ,3375,, we3376PPwe 'll3377MDwill adjust3378VVadjust the3379DTthe protocol3380NNprotocol and3381CCand put3382VVput a3383DTa trach3384NNtrach in3385INin .3386SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3387LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] May3388NPmay I3389PPI ...3390:... [MR. HOCHMAN]3391LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] And3392CCand that3393WDTthat might3394MDmight ...3395:... that3396WDTthat would3397MDwould have3398VHhave gone3399VVNgo ...3400:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3401LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Let3402VVlet me3403PPme ...3404:... let3405VVlet me3406PPme stop3407VVstop you3408PPyou right3409RBright there3410RBthere .3411SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]3412LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yeah3413NPYeah .3414SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3415LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Let3416NPLet 's3417POS's assume3418VVPassume ...3419:... and3420CCand they3421PPthey 're3422VBPbe going3423VVGgo to3424TOto ...3425:... I3426PPI 'm3427VBPbe going3428VVGgo to3429TOto ask3430VVask them3431PPthem this3432DTthis directly3433RBdirectly .3434SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]3435LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Sure3436NPSure .3437SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3438LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] It3439PPit does3440VVZdo seem3441VVseem very3442RBvery logical3443JJlogical that3444IN/thatthat the3445DTthe state3446NNstate would3447MDwould give3448VVgive an3449DTan affidavit3450NNaffidavit a3451DTa lot3452NNlot better3453RBRwell than3454INthan the3455DTthe one3456CDone they3457PPthey did3458VVDdo through3459INthrough Mr3460NPMr .3461SENT. Boyles3462NPBoyles that3463RBthat would3464MDwould say3465VVsay ,3466,, no3467UHno ,3468,, we3469PPwe 're3470VBPbe not3471RBnot going3472VVGgo to3473TOto put3474VVput him3475PPhim sublime3476JJsublime ,3477,, from3478INfrom the3479DTthe minute3480NNminute he3481PPhe 's3482VBZbe laid3483VVNlay down3484RBdown ,3485,, the3486DTthe gurney3487NNgurney will3488MDwill have3489VHhave the3490DTthe top3491JJtop part3492NNpart raised3493VVDraise ,3494,, we3495PPwe 've3496VHPhave talked3497VVNtalk to3498TOto the3499DTthe medical3500JJmedical team3501NNteam ,3502,, they3503PPthey have3504VHPhave experience3505NNexperience by3506INby their3507PP$their own3508JJown requirements3509NNSrequirement ,3510,, they3511PPthey have3512VHPhave training3513NNtraining ,3514,, education3515NNeducation ,3516,, and3517CCand experience3518NNexperience with3519INwith two3520CDtwo or3521CCor three3522CDthree different3523JJdifferent ways3524NNSway to3525TOto reach3526VVreach a3527DTa femoral3528JJfemoral line3529NNline .3530SENT. There3531EXthere 's3532VBZbe at3533INat least3534JJSleast one3535CDone of3536INof the3537DTthe two3538CDtwo people3539NNSpeople who3540WPwho do3541VVPdo .3542SENT. We3543PPwe 've3544VHPhave told3545VVNtell them3546PPthem about3547INabout the3548DTthe breathing3549NNbreathing problem3550NNproblem .3551SENT. It3552PPit 's3553VBZbe not3554RBnot going3555VVGgo to3556TOto be3557VBbe the3558DTthe same3559JJsame as3560INas the3561DTthe ...3562:... the3563DTthe last3564JJlast time3565NNtime .3566SENT. And3567CCand they3568PPthey 're3569VBPbe prepared3570VVNprepare .3571SENT. Assume3572VVassume they3573PPthey came3574VVDcome in3575INin with3576INwith that3577DTthat .3578SENT. No3579UHNo ,3580,, we3581PPwe 're3582VBPbe not3583RBnot going3584VVGgo to3585TOto let3586VVlet you3587PPyou talk3588VVtalk to3589TOto them3590PPthem .3591SENT. No3592UHNo ,3593,, we3594PPwe are3595VBPbe not3596RBnot going3597VVGgo to3598TOto permit3599VVpermit discovery3600NNdiscovery in3601INin a3602DTa traditional3603JJtraditional way3604NNway .3605SENT. But3606CCbut we3607PPwe are3608VBPbe making3609VVGmake these3610DTthese affirmative3611JJaffirmative representations3612NNSrepresentation to3613TOto the3614DTthe Court3615NPCourt .3616SENT. Would3617MDwould you3618PPyou have3619VHhave a3620DTa case3621NNcase left3622VVNleave at3623INat that3624DTthat point3625NNpoint ?3626SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]3627LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I3628PPI think3629VVPthink ...3630:... I3631PPI think3632VVPthink if3633INif the3634DTthe judgment3635NNjudgment were3636VBDbe based3637VVNbase on3638INon that3639DTthat kind3640NNkind ...3641:... on3642INon those3643DTthose kinds3644NNSkind of3645INof assurances3646NNSassurance ,3647,, I3648PPI would3649MDwould probably3650RBprobably want3651VVwant to3652TOto add3653VVadd a3654DTa few3655JJfew .3656SENT. I3657PPI think3658VVPthink ,3659,, given3660VVNgive the3661DTthe passage3662NNpassage of3663INof time3664NNtime and3665CCand the3666DTthe progressive3667JJprogressive nature3668NNnature of3669INof his3670PP$his illness3671NNillness ,3672,, I3673PPI think3674VVPthink ,3675,, to3676TOto be3677VBbe adequately3678RBadequately informed3679VVNinform ,3680,, I3681PPI mean3682VVPmean ,3683,, one3684CDone of3685INof the3686DTthe ...3687:... as3688RBas ...3689:... as3690INas you3691PPyou ...3692:... as3693INas you3694PPyou ...3695:... as3696INas you3697PPyou 've3698VHPhave pointed3699VVNpoint out3700RPout ,3701,, you3702PPyou know3703VVPknow ,3704,, adequate3705JJadequate information3706NNinformation is3707VBZbe critical3708JJcritical here3709RBhere .3710SENT. To3711TOTo be3712VBbe adequately3713RBadequately informed3714VVNinform ,3715,, you3716PPyou probably3717RBprobably have3718VHhave to3719TOto do3720VVdo imaging3721NNimaging studies3722NNSstudy at3723INat some3724DTsome reasonable3725JJreasonable time3726NNtime in3727INin advance3728NNadvance of3729INof ...3730:... of3731INof the3732DTthe execution3733NNexecution .3734SENT. I'd3735NNI'd ...3736:... I3737PPI 'd3738MDwould want3739VVwant to3740TOto know3741VVknow ...3742:... I3743PPI ...3744:... I3745PPI ...3746:... I3747PPI ...3748:... I3749PPI 'd3750MDwould want3751VVwant to3752TOto know3753VVknow what3754WPwhat kind3755NNkind of3756INof experience3757NNexperience they3758PPthey have3759VHPhave ,3760,, not3761RBnot only3762RBonly with3763INwith the3764DTthe cut-down3765NNcut-down ,3766,, but3767RBbut ,3768,, remember3769VVremember ,3770,, Dr3771NPDr .3772SENT. Zivot3773NPZivot was3774VBDbe very3775RBvery clear3776JJclear that3777IN/thatthat he3778PPhe would3779MDwould not3780RBnot want3781VVwant to3782TOto just3783RBjust intubate3784VVintubate on3785INon the3786DTthe fly3787NNfly someone3788NNsomeone in3789INin Mr3790NPMr .3791SENT. Bucklew3792NPBucklew 's3793POS's condition3794NNcondition .3795SENT. Why3796WRBwhy ?3797SENT? Because3798INbecause that3799DTthat tumor3800NNtumor is3801VBZbe extremely3802RBextremely sensitive3803JJsensitive .3804SENT. And3805CCand if3806INif you3807PPyou 've3808VHPhave got3809VVNget a3810DTa struggling3811VVGstruggle ,3812,, maybe3813RBmaybe convulsing3814VVGconvulse person3815NNperson even3816RBeven strapped3817VVNstrap down3818RPdown ,3819,, and3820CCand you3821PPyou 're3822VBPbe trying3823VVGtry to3824TOto put3825VVput a3826DTa tube3827NNtube down3828INdown his3829PP$his throat3830NNthroat so3831RBso that3832IN/thatthat he3833PPhe can3834MDcan breathe3835VVbreathe ,3836,, the3837DTthe chances3838NNSchance of3839INof a3840DTa catastrophic3841JJcatastrophic hemorrhage3842NNhemorrhage are3843VBPbe very3844RBvery ,3845,, very3846RBvery high3847JJhigh .3848SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3849LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Could3850MDcould I3851PPI ask3852VVask ...3853:... [MR. HOCHMAN]3854LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So3855CCso this3856DTthis has3857VHZhave to3858TOto be3859VBbe taken3860VVNtake care3861NNcare of3862INof ,3863,, thought3864VVNthink through3865INthrough in3866INin advance3867NNadvance ,3868,, I3869PPI think3870VVPthink it3871PPit 's3872VBZbe very3873RBvery complicated3874VVNcomplicate ,3875,, and3876CCand the3877DTthe judgment3878NNjudgment we3879PPwe have3880VHPhave right3881RBright now3882RBnow just3883RBjust does3884VVZdo n't3885RBn't do3886VVdo it3887PPit for3888INfor us3889PPus ,3890,, and3891CCand ...3892:... and3893CCand I3894PPI think3895VVPthink you3896PPyou have3897VHPhave to3898TOto vacate3899VVvacate and3900CCand remand3901VVremand .3902SENT. What3903WPWhat you3904PPyou are3905VBPbe proposing3906VVGpropose ,3907,, Justice3908NPJustice Sotomayor3909NPSotomayor ,3910,, is3911VBZbe entirely3912RBentirely sensible3913JJsensible and3914CCand could3915MDcould happen3916VVhappen on3917INon remand3918NNremand before3919INbefore the3920DTthe trial3921NNtrial court3922NNcourt ,3923,, and3924CCand that3925DTthat 's3926VBZbe where3927WRBwhere it3928PPit should3929MDshould happen3930VVhappen ,3931,, where3932WRBwhere it3933PPit should3934MDshould have3935VHhave happened3936VVNhappen before3937RBbefore .3938SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3939LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Could3940MDcould I3941PPI ask3942VVask you3943PPyou to3944TOto address3945VVaddress the3946DTthe reasonable3947JJreasonable alternative3948NNalternative question3949NNquestion ?3950SENT? I3951PPI know3952VVPknow you3953PPyou think3954VVPthink it3955PPit 's3956VBZbe not3957RBnot required3958VVNrequire in3959INin your3960PP$your case3961NNcase ,3962,, but3963CCbut it3964PPit ...3965:... assuming3966VVGassume that3967IN/thatthat it3968PPit is3969VBZbe ,3970,, how3971WRBhow can3972MDcan it3973PPit be3974VBbe a3975DTa reasonable3976JJreasonable alternative3977NNalternative if3978INif it3979PPit 's3980VHZhave never3981RBnever been3982VBNbe used3983VVNuse before3984RBbefore ?3985SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]3986LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yeah3987UHYeah ,3988,, Your3989PP$your Honor3990NPHonor ,3991,, I3992PPI think3993VVPthink ...3994:... I3995PPI think3996VVPthink there3997EXthere are3998VBPbe a3999DTa couple4000NNcouple reasons4001NNSreason why4002WRBwhy that4003WDTthat 's4004VBZbe so4005RBso .4006SENT. First4007RBfirst ,4008,, I4009PPI do4010VVPdo n't4011RBn't think4012VVthink that4013IN/thatthat this4014DTthis Court4015NPCourt ever4016RBever said4017VVDsay in4018INin Baze4019NPBaze that4020IN/thatthat it4021PPit has4022VHZhave to4023TOto have4024VHhave been4025VBNbe used4026VVNuse before4027RBbefore for4028INfor it4029PPit to4030TOto be4031VBbe a4032DTa reasonably4033RBreasonably available4034JJavailable alternative4035NNalternative .4036SENT. What4037WPWhat I4038PPI understand4039VVPunderstand the4040DTthe language4041NNlanguage of4042INof Baze4043NPBaze to4044TOto say4045VVsay is4046VBZbe ...4047:... its4048PP$its ...4049:... it4050PPit ...4051:... the4052DTthe ...4053:... the4054DTthe key4055JJkey passage4056NNpassage is4057VBZbe at4058INat page4059NNpage 574060CD@card@ of4061INof the4062DTthe opinion4063NNopinion ...4064:... no4065DTno other4066JJother state4067NNstate has4068VHZhave adopted4069VVNadopt the4070DTthe method4071NNmethod that4072WDTthat was4073VBDbe being4074VBGbe proposed4075VVNpropose in4076INin Baze4077NPBaze .4078SENT. And4079CCand Petitioner4080NNpetitioner 's4081VHZhave proffered4082VVNproffer no4083DTno showing4084NNshowing that4085WDTthat is4086VBZbe an4087DTan equally4088RBequally effective4089JJeffective manner4090NNmanner of4091INof imposing4092VVGimpose a4093DTa death4094NNdeath sentence4095NNsentence .4096SENT. Well4097UHwell ,4098,, what4099WPwhat do4100VVPdo we4101PPwe have4102VHPhave ?4103SENT? Oklahoma4104NPOklahoma ,4105,, Mississippi4106NPMississippi ,4107,, Alabama4108NPAlabama ,4109,, have4110VHPhave adopted4111VVNadopt lethal4112JJlethal gas4113NNgas as4114RBas ...4115:... as4116RBas ...4117:... as4118INas methods4119NNSmethod of4120INof execution4121NNexecution ,4122,, in4123INin addition4124NNaddition now4125RBnow to4126TOto Missouri4127NPMissouri ,4128,, and4129CCand it4130PPit 's4131VBZbe not4132RBnot only4133RBonly ...4134:... not4135RBnot only4136RBonly have4137VHPhave we4138PPwe shown4139VVNshow that4140IN/thatthat it4141PPit 's4142VBZbe an4143DTan equally4144RBequally effective4145JJeffective manner4146NNmanner of4147INof imposing4148VVGimpose a4149DTa death4150NNdeath sentence4151NNsentence .4152SENT. Dr4153NPDr .4154SENT. Antognini4155NPAntognini said4156VVDsay so4157RBso .4158SENT. That4159DTthat 's4160VBZbe his4161PP$his ...4162:... that4163WDTthat 's4164VBZbe his4165PP$his opinion4166NNopinion .4167SENT. That4168DTthat 's4169VBZbe the4170DTthe evidence4171NNevidence in4172INin the4173DTthe case4174NNcase .4175SENT. There4176EXthere 's4177VBZbe the4178DTthe study4179NNstudy from4180INfrom Oklahoma4181NPOklahoma which4182WDTwhich was4183VBDbe done4184VVNdo which4185WDTwhich went4186VVDgo through4187INthrough the4188DTthe process4189NNprocess that4190WDTthat would4191MDwould be4192VBbe involved4193VVNinvolve in4194INin some4195DTsome ...4196:... in4197INin some4198DTsome detail4199NNdetail ,4200,, talked4201VVNtalk about4202INabout the4203DTthe right4204NNright to4205TOto die4206VVdie community4207NNcommunity 's4208POS's favorable4209JJfavorable experiences4210NNSexperience with4211INwith lethal4212JJlethal gas4213NNgas .4214SENT. Now4215RBnow it4216PPit does4217VVZdo n't4218RBn't mean4219VVmean there4220EXthere 's4221VBZbe nothing4222NNnothing to4223TOto be4224VBbe worked4225VVNwork out4226RPout .4227SENT. Of4228INof course4229NNcourse ,4230,, there4231EXthere are4232VBPbe details4233NNSdetail to4234TOto be4235VBbe worked4236VVNwork out4237RPout .4238SENT. I4239PPI ...4240:... I4241PPI do4242VVPdo n't4243RBn't ...4244:... I4245PPI do4246VVPdo n't4247RBn't doubt4248VVdoubt that4249IN/thatthat it4250PPit would4251MDwould have4252VHhave to4253TOto be4254VBbe 1004255CD@card@ percent4256NNpercent pure4257JJpure nitrogen4258NNnitrogen ,4259,, because4260INbecause you4261PPyou ...4262:... you'd4263NNyou'd ...4264:... I4265PPI think4266VVPthink it4267PPit 's4268VBZbe actually4269RBactually potentially4270RBpotentially horrible4271JJhorrible if4272INif you4273PPyou have4274VHPhave either4275RBeither a4276DTa leak4277NNleak in4278INin the4279DTthe ...4280:... in4281INin the4282DTthe ...4283:... in4284INin the4285DTthe system4286NNsystem or4287CCor ...4288:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4289LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well4290UHWell ,4291,, but4292CCbut one4293CDone of4294INof the4295DTthe things4296NNSthing we4297PPwe see4298VVPsee often4299RBoften in4300INin the4301DTthe Eighth4302JJeighth Amendment4303NPAmendment cases4304NNScase is4305VBZbe the4306DTthe point4307NNpoint or4308CCor allegation4309NNallegation that4310IN/thatthat things4311NNSthing can4312MDcan go4313VVgo wrong4314RBwrong regardless4315RBregardless of4316INof the4317DTthe method4318NNmethod of4319INof execution4320NNexecution .4321SENT. And4322CCand it4323PPit seems4324VVZseem to4325TOto me4326PPme that4327IN/thatthat if4328INif you4329PPyou have4330VHPhave a4331DTa method4332NNmethod that4333IN/thatthat no4334DTno state4335NNstate has4336VHZhave ever4337RBever used4338VVNuse ,4339,, that4340IN/thatthat that4341DTthat danger4342NNdanger is4343VBZbe magnified4344VVNmagnify .4345SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]4346LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Possibly4347RBpossibly ,4348,, Your4349PP$your Honor4350NPHonor ,4351,, but4352CCbut ...4353:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4354LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] And4355CCand yet4356RByet your4357PP$your claim4358NNclaim is4359VBZbe that4360IN/thatthat this4361DTthis is4362VBZbe a4363DTa better4364RBRwell ...4365:... a4366DTa better4367JJRgood alternative4368NNalternative ?4369SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]4370LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yeah4371NPYeah ,4372,, because4373INbecause here's4374NNShere's ...4375:... here4376RBhere 's4377VBZbe why4378WRBwhy :4379:: I4380PPI mean4381VVPmean ,4382,, when4383WRBwhen you4384PPyou ...4385:... think4386VVPthink about4387RBabout what4388WPwhat our4389PP$our claim4390NNclaim is4391VBZbe ,4392,, this4393DTthis as-applied4394JJas-applied claim4395NNclaim .4396SENT. Our4397PP$our claim4398NNclaim is4399VBZbe that4400IN/thatthat the4401DTthe officials4402NNSofficial in4403INin Missouri4404NPMissouri are4405VBPbe going4406VVGgo to4407TOto do4408VVdo everything4409NNeverything that4410IN/thatthat their4411PP$their protocol4412NNprotocol directs4413VVZdirect them4414PPthem to4415TOto do4416VVdo .4417SENT. I4418PPI 'm4419VBPbe not4420RBnot assuming4421VVGassume that4422IN/thatthat there4423EXthere 's4424VBZbe going4425VVGgo to4426TOto be4427VBbe a4428DTa mishap4429NNmishap .4430SENT. I4431PPI 'm4432VBPbe not4433RBnot assuming4434VVGassume that4435IN/thatthat something4436NNsomething 's4437VBZbe going4438VVGgo to4439TOto go4440VVgo haywire4441JJhaywire .4442SENT. I4443PPI 'm4444VBPbe assuming4445VVGassume everything4446NNeverything 's4447VBZbe going4448VVGgo to4449TOto go4450VVgo exactly4451RBexactly the4452DTthe way4453NNway they4454PPthey intend4455VVPintend it4456PPit and4457CCand that4458IN/thatthat the4459DTthe process4460NNprocess of4461INof things4462NNSthing playing4463VVGplay out4464RPout exactly4465RBexactly that4466IN/thatthat way4467NNway is4468VBZbe going4469VVGgo to4470TOto be4471VBbe severe4472JJsevere suffering4473NNsuffering for4474INfor Mr4475NPMr .4476SENT. Bucklew4477NPBucklew .4478SENT. So4479RBso now4480RBnow we4481PPwe move4482VVPmove to4483TOto a4484DTa situation4485NNsituation where4486WRBwhere a4487DTa method4488NNmethod ...4489:... where4490WRBwhere I4491PPI ...4492:... where4493WRBwhere I4494PPI think4495VVPthink it4496PPit 's4497VBZbe made4498VVNmake substantially4499RBsubstantially less4500RBRless ,4501,, the4502DTthe risk4503NNrisk is4504VBZbe substantially4505RBsubstantially lower4506JJRlow of4507INof that4508DTthat kind4509NNkind of4510INof severe4511JJsevere suffering4512NNsuffering ,4513,, and4514CCand this4515DTthis Court4516NPCourt 's4517POS's cases4518NNScase have4519VHPhave made4520VVNmake clear4521JJclear that4522IN/thatthat mishaps4523NNSmishap in4524INin protocol4525NNprotocol ...4526:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4527LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well4528UHWell ,4529,, but4530CCbut that4531WDTthat gets4532VVZget to4533TOto the4534DTthe ...4535:... the4536DTthe point4537NNpoint ...4538:... I4539PPI mean4540VVPmean ,4541,, you4542PPyou understand4543VVPunderstand the4544DTthe theory4545NNtheory between4546INbetween Baze4547NPBaze and4548CCand Glossip4549NPGlossip ,4550,, which4551WDTwhich is4552VBZbe what4553WPwhat the4554DTthe Eighth4555JJeighth Amendment4556NPAmendment prohibits4557VVZprohibit is4558VBZbe the4559DTthe unnecessary4560JJunnecessary infliction4561NNinfliction of4562INof pain4563NNpain .4564SENT. If4565INif the4566DTthe death4567NNdeath ...4568:... death4569NNdeath penalty4570NNpenalty is4571VBZbe constitutional4572JJconstitutional ,4573,, as4574INas it4575PPit now4576RBnow is4577VBZbe ,4578,, there4579EXthere must4580MDmust be4581VBbe a4582DTa way4583NNway to4584TOto administer4585VVadminister it4586PPit .4587SENT. But4588CCbut ,4589,, if4590INif you4591PPyou can4592MDcan show4593VVshow that4594IN/thatthat there4595EXthere 's4596VBZbe another4597DTanother way4598NNway that4599WDTthat is4600VBZbe less4601RBRless painful4602JJpainful ,4603,, then4604RBthen the4605DTthe ...4606:... the4607DTthe theory4608NNtheory is4609VBZbe ,4610,, again4611RBagain ,4612,, that4613IN/thatthat it4614PPit 's4615VBZbe an4616DTan Eighth4617JJeighth Amendment4618NPAmendment claim4619NNclaim because4620INbecause it4621PPit 's4622POS's unnecessary4623JJunnecessary pain4624NNpain .4625SENT. But4626CCbut ,4627,, again4628RBagain ,4629,, it4630PPit seems4631VVZseem to4632TOto me4633PPme that4634IN/thatthat you4635PPyou can4636MDcan 't4637RB't make4638VVPmake that4639IN/thatthat showing4640VVGshow with4641INwith respect4642NNrespect to4643TOto something4644NNsomething that4645WDTthat 's4646VHZhave never4647RBnever been4648VBNbe ...4649:... never4650RBnever been4651VBNbe used4652VVNuse by4653INby any4654DTany other4655JJother state4656NNstate .4657SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]4658LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I4659PPI ...4660:... I4661PPI do4662VVPdo n't4663RBn't think4664VVthink that4665DTthat ...4666:... I4667PPI do4668VVPdo n't4669RBn't think4670VVthink that4671WDTthat 's4672VBZbe true4673JJtrue ,4674,, Your4675PP$your Honor4676NPHonor .4677SENT. I4678PPI think4679VVPthink what4680WPwhat happened4681VVDhappen in4682INin Baze4683NPBaze was4684VBDbe you4685PPyou had4686VHDhave a4687DTa method4688NNmethod that4689IN/thatthat ,4690,, assuming4691VVGassume it4692PPit went4693VVDgo well4694RBwell ...4695:... that4696WDTthat 's4697VBZbe what4698WPwhat the4699DTthe background4700NNbackground ,4701,, the4702DTthe basis4703NNbasis was4704VBDbe .4705SENT. Remember4706VVremember ,4707,, the4708DTthe ...4709:... the4710DTthe analysis4711NNanalysis was4712VBDbe comparative4713JJcomparative .4714SENT. You4715PPyou start4716VVPstart with4717INwith the4718DTthe background4719NNbackground assumption4720NNassumption in4721INin Baze4722NPBaze that4723IN/thatthat if4724INif everything4725NNeverything goes4726VVZgo according4727VVGaccord to4728TOto plan4729NNplan ,4730,, there4731EXthere 's4732VBZbe ...4733:... there4734EXthere 's4735VBZbe not4736RBnot constitutionally4737RBconstitutionally significant4738JJsignificant suffering4739NNsuffering .4740SENT. Here4741RBhere ,4742,, the4743DTthe ...4744:... it4745PPit 's4746VBZbe exactly4747RBexactly the4748DTthe opposite4749NNopposite .4750SENT. If4751INif everything4752NNeverything goes4753VVZgo according4754VVGaccord to4755TOto plan4756NNplan ,4757,, there4758EXthere is4759VBZbe constitutionally4760RBconstitutionally significant4761JJsignificant suffering4762NNsuffering .4763SENT. So4764RBso the4765DTthe ...4766:... the4767DTthe ...4768:... the4769DTthe relative4770JJrelative risk4771NNrisk of4772INof the4773DTthe just4774RBjust unknown4775JJunknown ,4776,, you4777PPyou know4778VVPknow ,4779,, not4780RBnot quite4781RBquite sure4782JJsure because4783INbecause it4784PPit 's4785VHZhave never4786RBnever been4787VBNbe played4788VVNplay out4789RPout before4790INbefore ,4791,, which4792WDTwhich has4793VHZhave no4794DTno purchase4795NNpurchase against4796INagainst the4797DTthe background4798NNbackground in4799INin Baze4800NPBaze ,4801,, has4802VHZhave enormous4803JJenormous purchase4804NNpurchase here4805RBhere .4806SENT. It's4807NNSIt's ...4808:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4809LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] What4810WPWhat do4811VVPdo you4812PPyou do4813VVPdo with4814INwith the4815DTthe ...4816:... do4817VVPdo I4818PPI understand4819VVunderstand where4820WRBwhere we4821PPwe are4822VBPbe is4823VBZbe that4824IN/thatthat the4825DTthe district4826NNdistrict court4827NNcourt and4828CCand the4829DTthe court4830NNcourt of4831INof appeals4832NNSappeal assumed4833VVDassume that4834IN/thatthat you4835PPyou 'd4836VHDhave shown4837VVNshow enough4838RBenough to4839TOto deny4840VVdeny summary4841NNsummary judgment4842NNjudgment to4843TOto the4844DTthe state4845NNstate ,4846,, you4847PPyou 'd4848VHDhave shown4849VVNshow enough4850RBenough that4851IN/thatthat this4852DTthis method4853NNmethod ,4854,, because4855INbecause of4856INof his4857PP$his special4858JJspecial condition4859NNcondition and4860CCand the4861DTthe terrible4862JJterrible tumors4863NNStumor and4864CCand so4865RBso forth4866RBforth ,4867,, could4868MDcould cause4869VVcause serious4870JJserious suffering4871NNsuffering ,4872,, and4873CCand now4874RBnow they4875PPthey overturned4876VVDoverturn you4877PPyou on4878INon the4879DTthe second4880JJsecond part4881NNpart and4882CCand said4883VVDsay :4884:: But4885CCbut you4886PPyou have4887VHPhave n't4888RBn't shown4889VVNshow that4890IN/thatthat that4891DTthat serious4892JJserious suffering4893NNsuffering would4894MDwould n't4895RBn't occur4896VVoccur anyway4897RBanyway ,4898,, even4899RBeven with4900INwith your4901PP$your new4902JJnew method4903NNmethod .4904SENT. All4905DTall right4906NNright ?4907SENT? That4908DTthat 's4909VBZbe where4910WRBwhere we4911PPwe are4912VBPbe .4913SENT. So4914RBso ,4915,, as4916RBas of4917INof this4918DTthis moment4919NNmoment ,4920,, though4921RBthough ,4922,, we4923PPwe 've4924VHPhave been4925VBNbe talking4926VVGtalk about4927INabout the4928DTthe first4929JJfirst part4930NNpart ,4931,, and4932CCand even4933RBeven you4934PPyou say4935VVPsay a4936DTa lot4937NNlot of4938INof conditions4939NNScondition have4940VHPhave changed4941VVNchange .4942SENT. And4943CCand some4944RBsome had4945VHDhave changed4946VVNchange .4947SENT. And4948CCand some4949DTsome might4950MDmight have4951VHhave changed4952VVNchange .4953SENT. And4954CCand we4955PPwe 're4956VBPbe missing4957VVGmiss a4958DTa piece4959NNpiece of4960INof evidence4961NNevidence about4962INabout an4963DTan affidavit4964NNaffidavit that4965WDTthat says4966VVZsay ,4967,, hey4968UHhey ,4969,, the4970DTthe nurses4971NNSnurse and4972CCand so4973RBso forth4974RBforth do4975VVdo what4976WPwhat they4977PPthey 're4978VBPbe supposed4979VVNsuppose to4980TOto do4981VVdo .4982SENT. Okay4983JJokay ?4984SENT? Now4985RBnow ,4986,, as4987RBas to4988TOto the4989DTthe second4990JJsecond part4991NNpart ,4992,, which4993WDTwhich is4994VBZbe pretty4995RBpretty hard4996JJhard to4997TOto look4998VVlook at4999INat alone5000RBalone without5001INwithout the5002DTthe first5003JJfirst part5004NNpart ,5005,, as5006RBas to5007TOto the5008DTthe second5009JJsecond part5010NNpart ,5011,, what5012WPwhat in5013INin your5014PP$your opinion5015NNopinion should5016MDshould we5017PPwe do5018VVdo ?5019SENT? Because5020INbecause the5021DTthe only5022JJonly ...5023:... the5024DTthe evidence5025NNevidence in5026INin the5027DTthe record5028NNrecord said5029VVDsay ,5030,, yeah5031RByeah ,5032,, if5033INif we5034PPwe use5035VVPuse nitrogen5036NNnitrogen ,5037,, Doctor5038NPDoctor ...5039:... the5040DTthe doctor5041NNdoctor that5042IN/thatthat you5043PPyou mentioned5044VVDmention said5045VVDsay you5046PPyou use5047VVPuse nitrogen5048NNnitrogen 205049CD@card@ seconds5050NNSsecond ,5051,, 305052CD@card@ seconds5053NNSsecond ,5054,, he'll5055NNhe'll ...5056:... he5057PPhe 'll5058MDwill be5059VBbe unconscious5060JJunconscious .5061SENT. Okay5062JJokay .5063SENT. The5064DTthe Chief5065NPChief Justice5066NPJustice ...5067:... I5068PPI mean5069VVPmean ,5070,, that5071WDTthat is5072VBZbe a5073DTa point5074NNpoint ;5075:; it5076PPit 's5077VHZhave never5078RBnever been5079VBNbe used5080VVNuse before5081RBbefore .5082SENT. And5083CCand the5084DTthe ...5085:... even5086RBeven their5087PP$their doctors5088NNSdoctor ,5089,, they5090PPthey 're5091VBPbe listening5092VVGlisten and5093CCand ...5094:... and5095CCand ...5096:... or5097CCor knows5098VVZknow about5099RBabout all5100PDTall this5101DTthis and5102CCand it5103PPit all5104RBall is5105VBZbe on5106INon an5107DTan assumption5108NNassumption that5109WDTthat now5110RBnow seems5111VVZseem not5112RBnot to5113TOto be5114VBbe accurate5115JJaccurate in5116INin your5117PP$your own5118JJown view5119NNview .5120SENT. It's5121NNSIt's ...5122:... the5123DTthe horse5124NNhorse study5125NNstudy 's5126VBZbe misread5127VVNmisread .5128SENT. And5129CCand so5130RBso ...5131:... so5132RBso what5133WPwhat in5134INin your5135PP$your opinion5136NNopinion should5137MDshould the5138DTthe Court5139NPCourt do5140VVPdo ?5141SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5142LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I5143PPI have5144VHPhave a5145DTa proposal5146NNproposal .5147SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]5148LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yes5149NPYes .5150SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]5151LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Thank5152VVthank you5153PPyou ,5154,, Justice5155NPJustice Breyer5156NPBreyer ,5157,, because5158INbecause I5159PPI have5160VHPhave a5161DTa proposal5162NNproposal .5163SENT. I5164PPI think5165VVPthink it5166PPit will5167MDwill address5168VVaddress Justice5169NPJustice Sotomayor5170NPSotomayor 's5171POS's concern5172NNconcern as5173INas well5174RBwell .5175SENT. If5176INif you5177PPyou look5178VVPlook at5179INat the5180DTthe appendix5181NNappendix ,5182,, at5183INat the5184DTthe fourth5185JJfourth amended5186VVNamend complaint5187NNcomplaint ,5188,, page5189NNpage 855190CD@card@ of5191INof the5192DTthe appendix5193NNappendix and5194CCand page5195NNpage 905196CD@card@ of5197INof the5198DTthe appendix5199NNappendix ,5200,, among5201INamong the5202DTthe allegations5203NNSallegation in5204INin the5205DTthe complaint5206NNcomplaint is5207VBZbe not5208RBnot only5209RBonly do5210VVPdo we5211PPwe think5212VVPthink lethal5213JJlethal gas5214NNgas would5215MDwould be5216VBbe a5217DTa viable5218JJviable alternative5219NNalternative method5220NNmethod ,5221,, but5222CCbut we5223PPwe also5224RBalso say5225VVPsay ,5226,, if5227INif after5228INafter adequate5229JJadequate discovery5230NNdiscovery it5231PPit turns5232VVZturn out5233INout it5234PPit might5235MDmight be5236VBbe possible5237JJpossible ,5238,, we5239PPwe just5240RBjust do5241VVPdo n't5242RBn't know5243VVknow ,5244,, but5245CCbut it5246PPit might5247MDmight be5248VBbe possible5249JJpossible to5250TOto alter5251VValter a5252DTa lethal5253JJlethal injection5254NNinjection protocol5255NNprotocol in5256INin a5257DTa way5258NNway that5259WDTthat would5260MDwould satisfy5261VVsatisfy constitutional5262JJconstitutional standards5263NNSstandard .5264SENT. So5265RBso ,5266,, if5267INif you5268PPyou vacate5269VVPvacate the5270DTthe judgment5271NNjudgment ,5272,, if5273INif you5274PPyou remand5275VVPremand it5276PPit to5277TOto the5278DTthe district5279NNdistrict court5280NNcourt ,5281,, in5282INin part5283NNpart because5284INbecause circumstances5285NNScircumstance have5286VHPhave changed5287VVNchange ,5288,, we5289PPwe do5290VVPdo n't5291RBn't know5292VVknow whether5293INwhether this5294DTthis changed5295VVNchange circumstances5296NNScircumstance will5297MDwill prevail5298VVprevail at5299INat the5300DTthe time5301NNtime an5302DTan execution5303NNexecution is5304VBZbe scheduled5305VVNschedule ,5306,, but5307CCbut in5308INin part5309NNpart because5310INbecause circumstances5311NNScircumstance have5312VHPhave changed5313VVNchange ,5314,, if5315INif you5316PPyou vacate5317VVPvacate and5318CCand remand5319VVPremand ,5320,, then5321RBthen we5322PPwe can5323MDcan go5324VVgo back5325RBback ,5326,, we5327PPwe cannot5328MDcan only5329RBonly look5330VVlook into5331INinto the5332DTthe question5333NNquestion of5334INof what's5335NNSwhat's ...5336:... what5337WPwhat ...5338:... what5339WPwhat ...5340:... how5341WRBhow the5342DTthe comparison5343NNcomparison in5344INin light5345NNlight of5346INof any5347DTany new5348JJnew circumstances5349NNScircumstance would5350MDwould be5351VBbe to5352TOto the5353DTthe lethal5354JJlethal ...5355:... unknown5356JJunknown aspects5357NNSaspect of5358INof lethal5359JJlethal gas5360NNgas ,5361,, but5362CCbut we5363PPwe can5364MDcan also5365RBalso figure5366VVfigure out5367RPout whether5368INwhether there5369EXthere are5370VBPbe other5371JJother ways5372NNSway to5373TOto modify5374VVmodify a5375DTa lethal5376JJlethal injection5377NNinjection protocol5378NNprotocol that5379WDTthat alleviate5380VValleviate this5381DTthis grave5382JJgrave concern5383NNconcern .5384SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]5385LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] What5386WPWhat is5387VBZbe your5388PP$your basis5389NNbasis for5390INfor arguing5391VVGargue that5392IN/thatthat there5393EXthere would5394MDwould be5395VBbe a5396DTa shorter5397JJRshort twilight5398NNtwilight period5399NNperiod with5400INwith lethal5401JJlethal gas5402NNgas ?5403SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5404LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So5405INso this5406DTthis ...5407:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5408LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Are5409VBPbe you5410PPyou relying5411VVGrely on5412INon Dr5413NPDr .5414SENT. Antognini5415NPAntognini 's5416POS's testimony5417NNtestimony for5418INfor that5419DTthat ?5420SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5421LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So5422RBso ...5423:... no5424UHno .5425SENT. So5426RBso just5427RBjust to5428TOto be5429VBbe clear5430JJclear ...5431:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5432LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] You5433PPyou 're5434VBPbe not5435RBnot ?5436SENT? Okay5437JJokay .5438SENT. So5439RBso what5440WPwhat are5441VBPbe you5442PPyou relying5443VVGrely on5444INon ?5445SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5446LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] So5447RBso ...5448:... so5449RBso the5450DTthe way5451NNway I5452PPI understand5453VVPunderstand it5454PPit is5455VBZbe the5456DTthe issue5457NNissue is5458VBZbe not5459RBnot that5460IN/thatthat there5461EXthere would5462MDwould be5463VBbe a5464DTa shorter5465JJRshort twilight5466NNtwilight period5467NNperiod .5468SENT. The5469DTthe issue5470NNissue is5471VBZbe ,5472,, what5473WPwhat 's5474VBZbe the5475DTthe degree5476NNdegree of5477INof suffering5478NNsuffering that5479WDTthat takes5480VVZtake place5481NNplace during5482INduring the5483DTthe twilight5484NNtwilight period5485NNperiod ?5486SENT? It5487PPit 's5488VBZbe the5489DTthe twilight5490NNtwilight period5491NNperiod is5492VBZbe what5493WPwhat it5494PPit is5495VBZbe .5496SENT. In5497INin the5498DTthe period5499NNperiod ,5500,, there5501EXthere 's5502VBZbe a5503DTa period5504NNperiod of5505INof time5506NNtime where5507WRBwhere you5508PPyou 're5509VBPbe unconscious5510JJunconscious .5511SENT. Dr5512NPDr .5513SENT. Zivot5514NPZivot thinks5515VVZthink there5516EXthere 's5517VBZbe a5518DTa period5519NNperiod of5520INof time5521NNtime even5522RBeven where5523WRBwhere EK5524NPEK ...5525:... EEG5526NNEEG readings5527NNSreading are5528VBPbe very5529RBvery ,5530,, very5531RBvery ,5532,, low5533JJlow ,5534,, but5535CCbut you5536PPyou can5537MDcan still5538RBstill ...5539:... from5540INfrom his5541PP$his experience5542NNexperience sitting5543VVGsit by5544INby patients5545NNSpatient for5546INfor 205547CD@card@ years5548NNSyear ,5549,, you5550PPyou can5551MDcan still5552RBstill sense5553VVsense things5554NNSthing .5555SENT. And5556CCand there5557EXthere is5558VBZbe ...5559:... so5560RBso there5561EXthere 's5562VBZbe ...5563:... there5564EXthere 's5565VBZbe possibility5566NNpossibility for5567INfor the5568DTthe ...5569:... the5570DTthe subjective5571JJsubjective experience5572NNexperience of5573INof suffering5574NNsuffering .5575SENT. The5576DTthe problem5577NNproblem is5578VBZbe that5579IN/thatthat ,5580,, with5581INwith pentobarbital5582NNpentobarbital ,5583,, part5584NNpart of5585INof what5586WPwhat happens5587VVZhappen ,5588,, and5589CCand this5590DTthis is5591VBZbe ...5592:... you5593PPyou have5594VHPhave a5595DTa very5596RBvery narrow5597JJnarrow ...5598:... you5599PPyou have5600VHPhave an5601DTan obstructed5602VVNobstruct airway5603NNairway ,5604,, and5605CCand Dr5606NPDr ...5607:... .5608SENT. Dr5609NPDr .5610SENT. Zivot5611NNZivot ...5612:... and5613CCand I'll5614NPI'll ...5615:... I5616PPI 'll5617MDwill be5618VBbe very5619RBvery quick5620JJquick here5621RBhere ...5622:... Dr5623NNDr .5624SENT. Zivot5625NPZivot just5626RBjust explains5627VVZexplain you5628PPyou could5629MDcould have5630VHhave laminar5631JJlaminar flow5632NNflow ,5633,, which5634WDTwhich is5635VBZbe normal5636JJnormal flow5637NNflow ,5638,, or5639CCor turbulent5640JJturbulent flow5641NNflow .5642SENT. Turbulent5643JJturbulent flow5644NNflow is5645VBZbe a5646DTa real5647JJreal big5648JJbig problem5649NNproblem for5650INfor ...5651:... for5652INfor ...5653:... for5654INfor Mister5655NPMister ...5656:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5657LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] But5658CCbut you5659PPyou 're5660VBPbe making5661VVGmake this5662DTthis very5663RBvery complicated5664VVNcomplicate .5665SENT. Is5666VBZbe n't5667RBn't the5668DTthe question5669NNquestion for5670INfor what5671WPwhat period5672NNperiod of5673INof time5674NNtime will5675MDwill Petitioner5676NNpetitioner be5677VBbe ...5678:... not5679RBnot be5680VBbe insensate5681JJinsensate but5682CCbut may5683MDmay have5684VHhave difficulty5685NNdifficulty breathing5686NNbreathing ?5687SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5688LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I5689PPI think5690VVPthink it5691PPit 's5692VBZbe several5693JJseveral minutes5694NNSminute ,5695,, Your5696PP$your Honor5697NPHonor .5698SENT. It5699PPit 's5700VBZbe several5701JJseveral .5702SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]5703LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] All5704DTall right5705NNright .5706SENT. And5707CCand how5708WRBhow do5709VVPdo you5710PPyou get5711VVget to5712TOto that5713DTthat figure5714NNfigure with5715INwith respect5716NNrespect ...5717:... the5718DTthe figure5719NNfigure that5720WDTthat applies5721VVZapply there5722RBthere with5723INwith respect5724NNrespect to5725TOto lethal5726JJlethal gas5727NNgas ?5728SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5729LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I5730PPI ...5731:... I5732PPI ...5733:... no5734UHno ,5735,, it5736PPit would5737MDwould be5738VBbe less5739JJRless with5740INwith lethal5741JJlethal gas5742NNgas .5743SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]5744LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Yeah5745NPYeah .5746SENT. Okay5747JJokay .5748SENT. What5749WPWhat are5750VBPbe the5751DTthe numbers5752NNSnumber ?5753SENT? And5754CCand where5755WRBwhere does5756VVZdo that5757IN/thatthat come5758VVNcome from5759INfrom ...5760:... [MR. HOCHMAN]5761LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Well5762UHWell ,5763,, the5764DTthe ...5765:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5766LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] ...5767:... is5768VBZbe what5769WPwhat I5770PPI 'm5771VBPbe asking5772VVGask .5773SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]5774LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] ...5775:... the5776DTthe ...5777:... the5778DTthe testimony5779NNtestimony from5780INfrom lethal5781JJlethal gas5782NNgas is5783VBZbe twofold5784JJtwofold .5785SENT. One5786CDOne ...5787:... this5788DTthis is5789VBZbe in5790INin the5791DTthe Oklahoma5792NPOklahoma studies5793NNSstudy at5794INat page5795NNpage 7365796CD@card@ through5797INthrough 7475798CD747 of5799INof the5800DTthe appendix5801NNappendix ...5802:... very5803RBvery ,5804,, very5805RBvery quick5806JJquick onset5807NNonset of5808INof unconsciousness5809NNunconsciousness ;5810:; and5811CCand ,5812,, two5813CDtwo ,5814,, one5815CDone of5816INof the5817DTthe things5818NNSthing that5819IN/thatthat lethal5820JJlethal gas5821NNgas has5822VHZhave is5823VBZbe it5824PPit 's5825VBZbe about5826RBabout twice5827RBtwice as5828RBas fast5829JJfast ...5830:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5831LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] So5832INso you5833PPyou 're5834VBPbe relying5835VVGrely on5836INon ...5837:... on5838INon the5839DTthe Oklahoma5840NPOklahoma study5841NNstudy for5842INfor that5843DTthat ?5844SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5845LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] The5846DTthe Oklahoma5847NPOklahoma information5848NNinformation and5849CCand Dr5850NNDr .5851SENT. Antognini5852NPAntognini 's5853POS's testimony5854NNtestimony .5855SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]5856LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Okay5857NPOkay .5858SENT. But5859CCbut what5860WPwhat did5861VVDdo ...5862:... did5863VVDdo n't5864RBn't ...5865:... Dr5866NNDr .5867SENT. Antognini5868NPAntognini said5869VVDsay that5870IN/thatthat it5871PPit would5872MDwould be5873VBbe the5874DTthe same5875JJsame for5876INfor lethal5877JJlethal gas5878NNgas and5879CCand for5880INfor ...5881:... [MR. HOCHMAN]5882LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] He5883PPhe said5884VVDsay it5885PPit would5886MDwould be5887VBbe the5888DTthe same5889JJsame as5890INas he5891PPhe thought5892VVDthink pentobarbital5893NNpentobarbital would5894MDwould produce5895VVproduce .5896SENT. And5897CCand that5898WDTthat was5899VBDbe ...5900:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5901LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] All5902DTall right5903NNright .5904SENT. So5905INso your5906PP$your ...5907:... you5908PPyou reject5909VVPreject his5910PP$his testimony5911NNtestimony .5912SENT. He5913PPhe says5914VVZsay it5915PPit 's5916VBZbe the5917DTthe same5918JJsame .5919SENT. So5920RBso you5921PPyou want5922VVPwant to5923TOto accept5924VVaccept him5925PPhim ...5926:... you5927PPyou want5928VVPwant to5929TOto accept5930VVaccept his5931PP$his number5932NNnumber ...5933:... I5934PPI mean5935VVPmean ,5936,, maybe5937RBmaybe there5938EXthere 's5939VBZbe more5940JJRmore .5941SENT. That5942DTthat 's5943VBZbe why5944WRBwhy I5945PPI 'm5946VBPbe asking5947VVGask this5948DTthis .5949SENT. Do5950VVPdo you5951PPyou want5952VVPwant to5953TOto accept5954VVaccept his5955PP$his number5956NNnumber for5957INfor lethal5958JJlethal gas5959NNgas but5960CCbut reject5961VVreject his5962PP$his number5963NNnumber for5964INfor pentobarbital5965NNpentobarbital ...5966:... for5967INfor ...5968:... for5969INfor the5970DTthe current5971JJcurrent protocol5972NNprotocol ?5973SENT? [MR. HOCHMAN]5974LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yes5975NPYes ,5976,, Your5977PP$your ...5978:... [JUSTICE ALITO]5979LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Even5980RBeven though5981INthough what5982WPwhat he5983PPhe said5984VVDsay was5985VBDbe that5986IN/thatthat they5987PPthey are5988VBPbe the5989DTthe same5990JJsame .5991SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]5992LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] Yes5993NPYes ,5994,, Your5995PP$your Honor5996NPHonor .5997SENT. I5998PPI think5999VVPthink we6000PPwe 're6001VBPbe entitled6002VVNentitle to6003TOto do6004VVdo that6005DTthat .6006SENT. And6007CCand Judge6008NPJudge ...6009:... and6010CCand that6011DTthat was6012VBDbe the6013DTthe basis6014NNbasis of6015INof Judge6016NPJudge Colloton6017NPColloton 's6018POS's dissent6019NNdissent .6020SENT. Thank6021VVthank you6022PPyou .6023SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6024LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank6025VVthank you6026PPyou ,6027,, Mr6028NPMr .6029SENT. Hochman6030NPHochman .6031SENT. [MR. HOCHMAN]6032LOC[MR. HOCHMAN] I6033PPI 'd6034MDwould like6035VVlike to6036TOto reserve6037VVreserve the6038DTthe remainder6039NNremainder of6040INof my6041PP$my time6042NNtime .6043SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6044LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Sure6045NPSure .6046SENT. Mr6047NPMr .6048SENT. Sauer6049NPSauer .6050SENT.