[GENERAL FRANCISCO]34LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Mr35NPMr .36SENT. Chief37NPChief Justice38NPJustice ,39,, and40CCand may41MDmay it42PPit please43VVplease the44DTthe Court45NPCourt :46:: In47INin 201748CD@card@ ,49,, the50DTthe Fifth51NPFifth Circuit52NPCircuit held53VVDhold that54IN/thatthat DAPA55NPDAPA and56CCand the57DTthe expansion58NNexpansion of59INof DACA60NPDACA were61VBDbe likely62RBlikely unlawful63JJunlawful ,64,, a65DTa judgment66NNjudgment this67DTthis Court68NPCourt affirmed69VVDaffirm by70INby an71DTan equally72RBequally divided73VVNdivide Court74NPCourt .75SENT. In76INin the77DTthe face78NNface of79INof those80DTthose decisions81NNSdecision ,82,, the83DTthe Department84NPDepartment of85INof Homeland86NNhomeland Security87NPSecurity reasonably88RBreasonably determined89VVDdetermine that90IN/thatthat it91PPit no92RBno longer93RBRlonger wished94VVNwish to95TOto retain96VVretain the97DTthe DACA98NPDACA policy99NNpolicy based100VVNbase on101INon its102PP$its belief103NNbelief that104IN/thatthat the105DTthe policy106NNpolicy was107VBDbe illegal108JJillegal ,109,, its110PP$its serious111JJserious doubts112NNSdoubt about113INabout its114PP$its illegality115NNillegality ,116,, and117CCand its118PP$its general119JJgeneral opposition120NNopposition to121TOto broad122JJbroad non-enforcement123NNnon-enforcement policies124NNSpolicy .125SENT. That126DTthat decision127NNdecision did128VVDdo not129RBnot violate130VVviolate the131DTthe APA132NPAPA for133INfor two134CDtwo reasons135NNSreason .136SENT. First137RBfirst ,138,, it139PPit 's140VBZbe not141RBnot subject142JJsubject to143TOto judicial144JJjudicial review145NNreview .146SENT. The147DTthe rescission148NNrescission simply149RBsimply ended150VVDend a151DTa previous152JJprevious non-enforcement153NNnon-enforcement policy154NNpolicy whereby155WRBwhereby the156DTthe Department157NPDepartment agreed158VVDagree to159TOto not160RBnot enforce161VVenforce the162DTthe INA163NPINA against164INagainst hundreds165NNShundred of166INof thousands167NNSthousand of168INof illegal169JJillegal aliens170NNSalien .171SENT. But172CCbut the173DTthe decision174NNdecision whether175INwhether or176CCor not177RBnot to178TOto enforce179VVenforce the180DTthe law181NNlaw is182VBZbe committed183VVNcommit to184TOto the185DTthe agency186NNagency 's187POS's unreviewable188JJunreviewable discretion189NNdiscretion ,190,, unless191INunless a192DTa statute193NNstatute restricts194VVZrestrict it195PPit .196SENT. And197CCand nothing198NNnothing in199INin the200DTthe INA201NPINA requires202VVZrequire the203DTthe Department204NPDepartment ,205,, a206DTa law207NNlaw enforcement208NNenforcement agency209NNagency ,210,, to211TOto not212RBnot enforce213VVenforce the214DTthe law215NNlaw .216SENT. Second217RBsecond ,218,, the219DTthe decision220NNdecision to221TOto end222VVend this223DTthis non-enforcement224NNnon-enforcement policy225NNpolicy was226VBDbe eminently227RBeminently reasonable228JJreasonable .229SENT. DACA230NPDACA was231VBDbe a232DTa temporary233JJtemporary stopgap234JJstopgap measure235NNmeasure that236IN/thatthat ,237,, on238INon its239PP$its face240NNface ,241,, could242MDcould be243VBbe rescinded244VVNrescind at245INat any246DTany time247NNtime .248SENT. And249CCand the250DTthe Department251NPDepartment 's252POS's reasonable253JJreasonable concerns254NNSconcern about255INabout its256PP$its legality257NNlegality and258CCand its259PP$its general260JJgeneral opposition261NNopposition to262TOto broad263JJbroad non-enforcement264NNnon-enforcement policies265NNSpolicy provided266VVDprovide more267JJRmore than268INthan a269DTa reasonable270JJreasonable basis271NNbasis for272INfor ending273VVGend it274PPit .275SENT. After276INafter all277DTall ,278,, an279DTan agency280NNagency is281VBZbe n't282RBn't required283VVNrequire to284TOto push285VVpush its286PP$its legally287RBlegally dubious288JJdubious power289NNpower to290TOto not291RBnot enforce292VVenforce the293DTthe law294NNlaw to295TOto its296PP$its logical297JJlogical extreme298NNextreme since299INsince it300PPit undermines301VVZundermine confidence302NNconfidence in303INin the304DTthe rule305NNrule of306INof law307NNlaw itself308PPitself and309CCand it310PPit conflicts311VVZconflict with312INwith the313DTthe agency314NNagency 's315POS's law316NNlaw enforcement317NNenforcement mission318NNmission .319SENT. I320PPI 'd321MDwould like322VVlike to323TOto begin324VVbegin with325INwith the326DTthe reviewability327NNreviewability question328NNquestion .329SENT. If330INif the331DTthe Attorney332NPAttorney General333NPGeneral were334VBDbe to335TOto say336VVsay that337IN/thatthat he338PPhe was339VBDbe n't340RBn't going341VVGgo to342TOto seek343VVseek death344NNdeath penalty345NNpenalty prosecutions346NNSprosecution because347INbecause he348PPhe thought349VVDthink the350DTthe death351NNdeath penalty352NNpenalty was353VBDbe unconstitutional354JJunconstitutional ,355,, that356WDTthat would357MDwould be358VBbe immune359JJimmune from360INfrom judicial361JJjudicial review362NNreview .363SENT. And364CCand if365INif a366DTa new367JJnew attorney368NNattorney general369NNgeneral came370VVDcome in371INin and372CCand reversed373VVDreverse that374DTthat policy375NNpolicy because376INbecause he377PPhe believed378VVDbelieve that379IN/thatthat the380DTthe death381NNdeath penalty382NNpenalty was383VBDbe constitutional384JJconstitutional ,385,, that386WDTthat would387MDwould likewise388RBlikewise be389VBbe immune390JJimmune from391INfrom judicial392JJjudicial review393NNreview because394INbecause ...395:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]396LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] General397NPGeneral Francisco398NPFrancisco ,399,, there400EXthere 's401VBZbe a402DTa strange403JJstrange element404NNelement to405TOto your406PP$your argument407NNargument because408INbecause you409PPyou 're410VBPbe arguing411VVGargue this412DTthis is413VBZbe a414DTa discretionary415JJdiscretionary matter416NNmatter ;417:; it418PPit 's419VBZbe not420RBnot reviewable421JJreviewable because422INbecause it423PPit 's424VBZbe committed425VVNcommit to426TOto agency427NNagency discretion428NNdiscretion .429SENT. But430CCbut ,431,, on432INon the433DTthe other434JJother hand435NNhand ,436,, you437PPyou say438VVPsay the439DTthe agency440NNagency had441VHDhave no442DTno discretion443NNdiscretion because444INbecause this445DTthis program446NNprogram was447VBDbe illegal448JJillegal .449SENT. In450INin other451JJother words452NNSword ,453,, the454DTthe law455NNlaw requires456VVZrequire you457PPyou to458TOto drop459VVdrop DACA460NPDACA .461SENT. So462RBso how463WRBhow can464MDcan it465PPit be466VBbe committed467VVNcommit to468TOto your469PP$your discretion470NNdiscretion when471WRBwhen you472PPyou 're473VBPbe saying474VVGsay we475PPwe have476VHPhave no477DTno discretion478NNdiscretion ;479:; this480DTthis is481VBZbe an482DTan illegal483JJillegal program484NNprogram ?485SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]486LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] For487INfor two488CDtwo reasons489NNSreason ,490,, Your491PP$your Honor492NPHonor .493SENT. First494RBfirst ,495,, we496PPwe 've497VHPhave put498VVNput forward499RBforward both500DTboth legal501JJlegal and502CCand policy503NNpolicy reasons504NNSreason for505INfor the506DTthe rescission507NNrescission ,508,, so509RBso this510DTthis case511NNcase is512VBZbe on513INon all514DTall fours515NNSfour with516INwith Chaney517NPChaney ,518,, where519WRBwhere the520DTthe FDA521NPFDA likewise522RBlikewise put523VVDput forth524RBforth legal525JJlegal and526CCand policy527NNpolicy reasons528NNSreason .529SENT. Its530PP$its principal531JJprincipal argument532NNargument was533VBDbe that534IN/thatthat it535PPit lacked536VVDlack jurisdiction537NNjurisdiction to538TOto reg539NNreg ...540:... to541TOto regulate542VVregulate state543NNstate use544NNuse of545INof drugs546NNSdrug in547INin carrying548VVGcarry out549RPout the550DTthe death551NNdeath penalty552NNpenalty .553SENT. Its554PP$its alternative555JJalternative argument556NNargument was557VBDbe that558IN/thatthat even559RBeven if560INif it561PPit had562VHDhave the563DTthe legal564JJlegal authority565NNauthority to566TOto do567VVdo so568RBso ,569,, it570PPit would571MDwould n't572RBn't have573VHhave exercised574VVNexercise it575PPit .576SENT. And577CCand this578DTthis Court579NPCourt found580VVDfind that581IN/thatthat that582DTthat decision583NNdecision was584VBDbe committed585VVNcommit to586TOto the587DTthe agency588NNagency 's589POS's unreviewable590JJunreviewable discretion591NNdiscretion .592SENT. Here593RBhere ,594,, we595PPwe are596VBPbe likewise597RBlikewise making598VVGmake alternative599JJalternative legal600JJlegal and601CCand policy602NNpolicy arguments603NNSargument .604SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]605LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] What606WPWhat 's607VHZhave your608PP$your ...609:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]610LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] But611CCbut ,612,, secondly613RBsecondly ...614:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]615LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Oh616UHoh ,617,, I618PPI 'm619VBPbe sorry620JJsorry .621SENT. Go622VVgo ahead623RBahead .624SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]625LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Secondly626RBsecondly ,627,, even628RBeven if629INif we630PPwe were631VBDbe making632VVGmake purely633RBpurely a634DTa legal635JJlegal argument636NNargument ,637,, and638CCand we639PPwe 're640VBPbe not641RBnot ,642,, but643CCbut even644RBeven if645INif we646PPwe were647VBDbe ,648,, review649NNreview would650MDwould be651VBbe foreclosed652VVNforeclose by653INby this654DTthis Court655NPCourt 's656POS's decision657NNdecision in658INin BLE659NPBLE .660SENT. What661WPWhat the662DTthe BLE663JJBLE case664NNcase held665VVNhold was666VBDbe that667IN/thatthat if668INif an669DTan action670NNaction is671VBZbe committed672VVNcommit to673TOto an674DTan agency675NNagency 's676POS's unreviewable677JJunreviewable discretion678NNdiscretion ,679,, then680RBthen it681PPit does682VVZdo n't683RBn't matter684VVmatter what685WPwhat reason686NNreason it687PPit gives688VVZgive for689INfor taking690VVGtake that691DTthat action692NNaction ;693:; it694PPit 's695VBZbe still696RBstill unreviewable697JJunreviewable .698SENT. And699CCand the700DTthe specific701JJspecific example702NNexample this703DTthis Court704NNcourt provided705VVNprovide in706INin BLE707NPBLE was708VBDbe a709DTa prosecutor710NNprosecutor who711WPwho decided712VVDdecide not713RBnot to714TOto indict715VVindict for716INfor a717DTa purely718RBpurely legal719JJlegal reason720NNreason .721SENT. And722CCand the723DTthe Court724NPCourt indicated725VVDindicate that726IN/thatthat that727WDTthat was728VBDbe still729RBstill unreviewable730JJunreviewable because731INbecause the732DTthe underlying733VVGunderlie action734NNaction ,735,, the736DTthe enforcement737NNenforcement discretion738NNdiscretion ,739,, was740VBDbe committed741VVNcommit to742TOto the743DTthe agency744NNagency 's745POS's unreviewable746JJunreviewable discretion747NNdiscretion .748SENT. So749RBso ,750,, here751RBhere ,752,, we753PPwe think754VVPthink we755PPwe win756VVwin under757INunder Chaney758NPChaney ,759,, and760CCand we761PPwe also762RBalso think763VVPthink we764PPwe win765VVwin under766INunder BLE767NNBLE .768SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]769LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] What770WPWhat if771INif the772DTthe Attorney773NPAttorney General774NPGeneral said775VVDsay he776PPhe ,777,, in778INin his779PP$his exercise780NNexercise of781INof prosecutorial782JJprosecutorial discretion783NNdiscretion ,784,, was785VBDbe not786RBnot going787VVGgo to788TOto enforce789VVenforce any790DTany of791INof the792DTthe immigration793NNimmigration laws794NNSlaw ?795SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]796LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh797UHuh ...798:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]799LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Would800MDwould that801RBthat still802RBstill be803VBbe non-reviewable804JJnon-reviewable ?805SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]806LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Your807PP$your Honor808NPHonor ,809,, then810RBthen I811PPI think812VVPthink that813IN/thatthat you814PPyou might815MDmight run816VVrun into817INinto Chaney818NPChaney 's819POS's exception820NNexception for821INfor a822DTa complete823JJcomplete abdication824NNabdication of825INof authority826NNauthority ,827,, but828CCbut there829EXthere 's830VBZbe a831DTa critical832JJcritical difference833NNdifference between834INbetween that835WDTthat and836CCand this837DTthis .838SENT. Here839RBhere ,840,, we841PPwe are842VBPbe enforcing843VVGenforce the844DTthe law845NNlaw .846SENT. You847PPyou can848MDcan understand849VVunderstand why850WRBwhy Congress851NPCongress or852CCor the853DTthe courts854NNScourt might855MDmight say856VVsay that857IN/thatthat you858PPyou can859MDcan review860VVreview a861DTa ...862:... a863DTa decision864NNdecision not865RBnot to866TOto enforce867VVenforce the868DTthe law869NNlaw .870SENT. Congress871NPCongress ,872,, in873INin fact874NNfact ,875,, passes876VVZpass laws877NNSlaw so878INso they879PPthey 'll880MDwill be881VBbe enforced882VVNenforce ,883,, and884CCand you885PPyou can886MDcan understand887VVunderstand why888WRBwhy it889PPit might890MDmight restrict891VVrestrict the892DTthe government893NNgovernment 's894POS's ability895NNability to896TOto not897RBnot enforce898VVenforce the899DTthe law900NNlaw .901SENT. Here902RBhere ,903,, we904PPwe are905VBPbe enforcing906VVGenforce the907DTthe law908NNlaw .909SENT. And910CCand it911PPit 's912VBZbe very913RBvery difficult914JJdifficult to915TOto see916VVsee why917WRBwhy the918DTthe Congress919NPCongress would920MDwould ever921RBever pass922VVpass a923DTa law924NNlaw ,925,, say926VVPsay that927IN/thatthat something928NNsomething is929VBZbe illegal930JJillegal ,931,, and932CCand then933RBthen try934VVtry to935TOto hamstring936VVhamstring the937DTthe government938NNgovernment 's939POS's ability940NNability to941TOto enforce942VVenforce it943PPit .944SENT. That945DTthat 's946VBZbe why947WRBwhy we948PPwe think949VVPthink we950PPwe clearly951RBclearly fall952VVPfall within953INwithin the954DTthe Chaney955NPChaney presumption956NNpresumption ,957,, that958IN/thatthat it959PPit 's960VBZbe an961DTan exercise962NNexercise of963INof enforcement964NNenforcement discretion965NNdiscretion ,966,, and967CCand we968PPwe do969VVPdo n't970RBn't fall971VVfall within972INwithin the973DTthe Chaney974NPChaney exception975NNexception ,976,, which977WDTwhich would978MDwould apply979VVapply where980WRBwhere Congress981NPCongress itself982PPitself restricts983VVZrestrict the984DTthe discretion985NNdiscretion or986CCor where987WRBwhere there988EXthere 's989VBZbe a990DTa potential991JJpotential complete992JJcomplete abdication993NNabdication of994INof enforcement995NNenforcement authority996NNauthority ,997,, as998INas Chaney999NPChaney made1000VVNmake clear1001JJclear might1002MDmight also1003RBalso be1004VBbe an1005DTan exception1006NNexception .1007SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]1008LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Was1009VBDbe DACA1010NPDACA ...1011:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]1012LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Just1013RBjust to1014TOto ...1015:... just1016RBjust to1017TOto understand1018VVunderstand what1019WPwhat you1020PPyou 're1021VBPbe saying1022VVGsay ,1023,, General1024NPGeneral ,1025,, you1026PPyou ...1027:... that1028WDTthat would1029MDwould suggest1030VVsuggest that1031IN/thatthat the1032DTthe original1033JJoriginal DACA1034NPDACA is1035VBZbe reviewable1036JJreviewable ,1037,, but1038CCbut the1039DTthe rescission1040NNrescission of1041INof DACA1042NPDACA is1043VBZbe not1044RBnot .1045SENT. In1046INin other1047JJother words1048NNSword ,1049,, are1050VBPbe you1051PPyou suggesting1052VVGsuggest that1053IN/thatthat there1054EXthere 's1055VBZbe an1056DTan asymmetry1057NNasymmetry in1058INin what1059WPwhat 's1060VBZbe reviewable1061JJreviewable ?1062SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1063LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] There1064RBthere ...1065:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]1066LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] That1067IN/thatthat they1068PPthey do1069VVPdo n't1070RBn't stand1071VVstand and1072CCand fall1073VVfall together1074RBtogether ?1075SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1076LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yeah1077NPYeah ,1078,, there1079EXthere is1080VBZbe ,1081,, because1082INbecause there1083EXthere 's1084VBZbe a1085DTa difference1086NNdifference in1087INin the1088DTthe two1089CDtwo policies1090NNSpolicy .1091SENT. Both1092CCboth of1093INof them1094PPthem ...1095:... to1096TOto be1097VBbe clear1098JJclear ,1099,, both1100CCboth of1101INof them1102PPthem fall1103VVPfall within1104INwithin Chaney1105NPChaney 's1106POS's presumption1107NNpresumption .1108SENT. Both1109CCboth of1110INof them1111PPthem reflect1112VVPreflect an1113DTan exercise1114NNexercise of1115INof enforcement1116NNenforcement discretion1117NNdiscretion that1118WDTthat are1119VBPbe presumptively1120RBpresumptively unreviewable1121JJunreviewable .1122SENT. The1123DTthe question1124NNquestion then1125RBthen is1126VBZbe whether1127INwhether Congress1128NPCongress has1129VHZhave done1130VVNdo anything1131NNanything to1132TOto restrict1133VVrestrict that1134DTthat discretion1135NNdiscretion .1136SENT. With1137INwith respect1138NNrespect to1139TOto DAPA1140NPDAPA ,1141,, the1142DTthe case1143NNcase that1144IN/thatthat this1145DTthis Court1146NPCourt had1147VHDhave before1148INbefore it1149PPit a1150DTa couple1151NNcouple of1152INof years1153NNSyear ago1154RBago ,1155,, Texas1156NPTexas argued1157VVDargue that1158IN/thatthat the1159DTthe INA1160NPINA actually1161RBactually restricted1162VVDrestrict the1163DTthe agency1164NNagency 's1165POS's ability1166NNability not1167RBnot to1168TOto enforce1169VVenforce the1170DTthe law1171NNlaw .1172SENT. And1173CCand you1174PPyou can1175MDcan certainly1176RBcertainly understand1177VVunderstand why1178WRBwhy Congress1179NPCongress might1180MDmight try1181VVtry to1182TOto hamstring1183VVhamstring the1184DTthe government1185NNgovernment 's1186POS's ability1187NNability not1188RBnot to1189TOto enforce1190VVenforce the1191DTthe laws1192NNSlaw that1193IN/thatthat it1194PPit passes1195VVZpass .1196SENT. And1197CCand the1198DTthe Fifth1199NPFifth Circuit1200NPCircuit agreed1201VVDagree .1202SENT. So1203RBso that1204DTthat fell1205VVDfall within1206INwithin the1207DTthe Chaney1208NPChaney exception1209NNexception to1210TOto the1211DTthe presumption1212NNpresumption .1213SENT. Here1214RBhere ,1215,, though1216RBthough ,1217,, nobody1218NNnobody is1219VBZbe arguing1220VVGargue ,1221,, nobody1222NNnobody on1223INon either1224DTeither side1225NNside ,1226,, is1227VBZbe arguing1228VVGargue that1229IN/thatthat the1230DTthe INA1231NPINA somehow1232RBsomehow restricts1233VVZrestrict our1234PP$our ability1235NNability to1236TOto enforce1237VVenforce the1238DTthe law1239NNlaw .1240SENT. And1241CCand it1242PPit would1243MDwould be1244VBbe quite1245RBquite surprising1246JJsurprising if1247INif Congress1248NPCongress were1249VBDbe to1250TOto pass1251VVpass a1252DTa law1253NNlaw that1254WDTthat says1255VVZsay something1256NNsomething is1257VBZbe illegal1258JJillegal and1259CCand then1260RBthen tries1261VVZtry to1262TOto somehow1263RBsomehow restrict1264VVrestrict the1265DTthe government1266NNgovernment 's1267POS's ability1268NNability from1269INfrom enforcing1270VVGenforce the1271DTthe laws1272NNSlaw that1273IN/thatthat it1274PPit passes1275VVZpass .1276SENT. So1277RBso ,1278,, again1279RBagain ,1280,, I1281PPI think1282VVPthink we1283PPwe fall1284VVPfall four1285CDfour square1286NNsquare within1287INwithin the1288DTthe Chaney1289NPChaney presumption1290NNpresumption ,1291,, and1292CCand the1293DTthe Chaney1294NPChaney exception1295NNexception does1296VVZdo n't1297RBn't apply1298VVapply .1299SENT. And1300CCand that1301DTthat exception1302NNexception applies1303VVZapply ...1304:... that1305DTthat exception1306NNexception covers1307VVZcover both1308CCboth where1309WRBwhere the1310DTthe statute1311NNstatute itself1312PPitself restricts1313VVZrestrict the1314DTthe discretion1315NNdiscretion ,1316,, and1317CCand ,1318,, Chief1319NPChief Justice1320NPJustice ,1321,, to1322TOto your1323PP$your question1324NNquestion ,1325,, it1326PPit could1327MDcould also1328RBalso apply1329VVapply where1330WRBwhere there1331EXthere was1332VBDbe a1333DTa complete1334JJcomplete abdication1335NNabdication of1336INof law1337NNlaw enforcement1338NNenforcement responsibilities1339NNSresponsibility .1340SENT. That1341DTthat was1342VBDbe one1343CDone of1344INof the1345DTthe areas1346NNSarea that1347WDTthat Chaney1348NPChaney reserved1349VVDreserve in1350INin that1351DTthat critical1352JJcritical Footnote1353NNfootnote 41354CD4 .1355SENT. But1356CCbut ,1357,, here1358RBhere ,1359,, we1360PPwe 're1361VBPbe not1362RBnot not1363RBnot enforcing1364VVGenforce the1365DTthe law1366NNlaw .1367SENT. We1368PPwe 're1369VBPbe enforcing1370VVGenforce the1371DTthe law1372NNlaw .1373SENT. And1374CCand there1375EXthere is1376VBZbe simply1377RBsimply nothing1378NNnothing in1379INin the1380DTthe INA1381NPINA that1382WDTthat somehow1383RBsomehow says1384VVZsay to1385TOto the1386DTthe Department1387NPDepartment of1388INof Homeland1389NNhomeland Security1390NNsecurity you1391PPyou are1392VBPbe restricted1393VVNrestrict in1394INin any1395DTany way1396NNway or1397CCor shape1398NNshape or1399CCor form1400NNform ...1401:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1402LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Can1403MDcan I1404PPI go1405VVgo back1406RBback ...1407:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1408LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...1409:... from1410INfrom enforcing1411VVGenforce the1412DTthe laws1413NNSlaw we1414PPwe pass1415VVPpass .1416SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1417LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] The1418DTthe response1419NNresponse that1420IN/thatthat you1421PPyou ...1422:... that1423IN/thatthat you1424PPyou gave1425VVDgive to1426TOto me1427PPme ,1428,, I1429PPI did1430VVDdo n't1431RBn't see1432VVsee ...1433:... I1434PPI thought1435VVDthink that1436IN/thatthat what1437WPwhat you1438PPyou call1439VVPcall it1440PPit ,1441,, the1442DTthe Duke1443NPDuke Memorandum1444NPMemorandum ,1445,, Duke1446NPDuke Memorandum1447NPMemorandum said1448VVDsay DACA1449NPDACA is1450VBZbe illegal1451JJillegal .1452SENT. I1453PPI did1454VVDdo n't1455RBn't see1456VVsee where1457WRBwhere it1458PPit said1459VVDsay ,1460,, whether1461INwhether it1462PPit 's1463VBZbe illegal1464JJillegal or1465CCor not1466RBnot ,1467,, as1468INas a1469DTa matter1470NNmatter of1471INof administration1472NNadministration policy1473NNpolicy ,1474,, we1475PPwe are1476VBPbe withdrawing1477VVGwithdraw it1478PPit .1479SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1480LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh1481NPUh-huh .1482SENT. So1483RBso ...1484:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1485LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] I1486PPI did1487VVDdo n't1488RBn't see1489VVsee that1490DTthat .1491SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1492LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yeah1493NPYeah .1494SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1495LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] You1496PPyou said1497VVDsay there1498EXthere were1499VBDbe alternate1500JJalternate arguments1501NNSargument .1502SENT. I1503PPI saw1504VVDsee only1505RBonly the1506DTthe first1507JJfirst ,1508,, we1509PPwe can1510MDcan 't1511RB't enforce1512VVenforce DACA1513NPDACA ;1514:; we1515PPwe can1516MDcan 't1517RB't adhere1518VVadhere to1519TOto DACA1520NPDACA because1521INbecause it1522PPit 's1523VBZbe illegal1524JJillegal .1525SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1526LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So1527INso two1528CDtwo responses1529NNSresponse ,1530,, Your1531PP$your Honor1532NPHonor .1533SENT. First1534JJfirst of1535INof all1536DTall ,1537,, Secretary1538NPSecretary Nielsen1539NPNielsen 's1540POS's memoranda1541NNSmemorandum clearly1542RBclearly encompasses1543VVZencompass all1544DTall of1545INof the1546DTthe different1547JJdifferent arguments1548NNSargument .1549SENT. It1550PPit sets1551VVZset them1552PPthem forth1553RBforth in1554INin great1555JJgreat detail1556NNdetail .1557SENT. And1558CCand we1559PPwe think1560VVPthink that1561IN/thatthat the1562DTthe Nielsen1563NPNielsen memorandum1564NNmemorandum is1565VBZbe clearly1566RBclearly properly1567RBproperly before1568INbefore the1569DTthe Court1570NPCourt .1571SENT. The1572DTthe district1573NNdistrict court1574NNcourt in1575INin Washington1576NPWashington ,1577,, D1578NPD .1579SENT. C1580LSc .1581SENT. ,1582,, specifically1583RBspecifically asked1584VVNask for1585INfor it1586PPit .1587SENT. We1588PPwe specifically1589RBspecifically provided1590VVDprovide it1591PPit .1592SENT. The1593DTthe district1594NNdistrict court1595NNcourt reviewed1596VVDreview it1597PPit .1598SENT. So1599INso the1600DTthe only1601JJonly question1602NNquestion really1603RBreally is1604VBZbe ,1605,, what1606WPwhat does1607VVZdo it1608PPit mean1609VVmean ?1610SENT? And1611CCand Secretary1612NPSecretary Nielsen1613NPNielsen in1614INin her1615PP$her memorandum1616NNmemorandum effectively1617RBeffectively ratified1618VVDratify Secretary1619NPSecretary Duke1620NPDuke 's1621POS's decision1622NNdecision for1623INfor the1624DTthe reasons1625NNSreason given1626VVNgive ,1627,, using1628VVGuse precisely1629RBprecisely the1630DTthe same1631JJsame mechanism1632NNmechanism that1633IN/thatthat Secretary1634NPSecretary Duke1635NPDuke used1636VVDuse herself1637PPherself to1638TOto issue1639VVissue the1640DTthe memo1641NNmemo in1642INin the1643DTthe first1644JJfirst place1645NNplace ,1646,, the1647DTthe same1648JJsame mechanism1649NNmechanism that1650WDTthat was1651VBDbe issued1652VVNissue ...1653:... used1654VVNuse to1655TOto issue1656VVissue the1657DTthe DACA1658NPDACA memo1659NNmemo ,1660,, and1661CCand the1662DTthe same1663JJsame mechanism1664NNmechanism used1665VVNuse to1666TOto issue1667VVissue the1668DTthe DAPA1669NPDAPA memo1670NNmemo .1671SENT. So1672RBso this1673DTthis is1674VBZbe n't1675RBn't a1676DTa post1677NNpost hoc1678FWhoc rationalization1679NNrationalization of1680INof agency1681NNagency action1682NNaction .1683SENT. It1684PPit is1685VBZbe agency1686NNagency action1687NNaction .1688SENT. The1689DTthe whole1690JJwhole point1691NNpoint of1692INof the1693DTthe post1694NNpost hoc1695FWhoc rationalization1696NNrationalization rule1697NNrule is1698VBZbe to1699TOto prevent1700VVprevent courts1701NNScourt from1702INfrom invading1703VVGinvade into1704INinto executive1705JJexecutive branch1706NNbranch decision-making1707NNdecision-making .1708SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1709LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] I1710PPI thought1711VVDthink the1712DTthe point1713NNpoint ...1714:... I1715PPI mean1716VVPmean ,1717,, this1718DTthis is1719VBZbe an1720DTan old1721JJold argument1722NNargument .1723SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1724LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yeah1725NPYeah .1726SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1727LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And1728CCand there1729EXthere have1730VHPhave been1731VBNbe two1732CDtwo bases1733NNSbase .1734SENT. The1735DTthe first1736JJfirst base1737NNbase is1738VBZbe a1739DTa big1740JJbig argument1741NNargument between1742INbetween Ken1743NPKen Davis1744NPDavis and1745CCand Burger1746NPBurger ,1747,, you1748PPyou know1749VVPknow ,1750,, and1751CCand is1752VBZbe ...1753:... is1754VBZbe it1755PPit that1756IN/thatthat you1757PPyou can1758MDcan 't1759RB't review1760VVreview an1761DTan agency1762NNagency ,1763,, does1764VVZdo that1765IN/thatthat little1766JJlittle thing1767NNthing about1768INabout you1769PPyou cannot1770MDcan ...1771:... commit1772VVcommit it1773PPit to1774TOto agency1775NNagency discretion1776NNdiscretion by1777INby law1778NNlaw ,1779,, does1780VVZdo it1781PPit mean1782VVPmean that1783IN/thatthat there1784EXthere 's1785VBZbe certain1786JJcertain ...1787:... just1788RBjust mean1789VVPmean that1790IN/thatthat there1791EXthere are1792VBPbe certain1793JJcertain things1794NNSthing an1795DTan agency1796NNagency might1797MDmight do1798VVdo .1799SENT. Do1800VVPdo n't1801RBn't review1802VVreview them1803PPthem even1804RBeven if1805INif they1806PPthey 're1807VBPbe totally1808RBtotally wrong1809JJwrong ,1810,, like1811INlike Panama1812NPPanama Canal1813NPCanal tolls1814NNStoll .1815SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1816LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right1817NPRight .1818SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1819LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Okay1820NPOkay ?1821SENT? That1822DTthat is1823VBZbe n't1824RBn't here1825RBhere ,1826,, I1827PPI do1828VVPdo n't1829RBn't think1830VVthink .1831SENT. The1832DTthe Chaney1833NPChaney argument1834NNargument ,1835,, I1836PPI thought1837VVDthink was1838VBDbe the1839DTthe reason1840NNreason this1841DTthis is1842VBZbe unreviewable1843JJunreviewable ,1844,, is1845VBZbe because1846INbecause there1847EXthere 's1848VBZbe a1849DTa long1850JJlong history1851NNhistory and1852CCand tradition1853NNtradition of1854INof a1855DTa prosecutor1856NNprosecutor saying1857VVGsay ,1858,, I1859PPI know1860VVPknow that1861DTthat guy1862NNguy over1863INover there1864RBthere ,1865,, or1866CCor that1867DTthat woman1868NNwoman here1869RBhere ,1870,, and1871CCand they1872PPthey may1873MDmay be1874VBbe guilty1875JJguilty ,1876,, but1877CCbut ,1878,, in1879INin my1880PP$my discretion1881NNdiscretion ,1882,, no1883UHno ,1884,, I1885PPI do1886VVPdo n't1887RBn't want1888VVwant to1889TOto prosecute1890VVprosecute them1891PPthem .1892SENT. There1893EXthere 's1894VBZbe a1895DTa long1896JJlong history1897NNhistory of1898INof that1899DTthat .1900SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1901LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh1902NPUh-huh .1903SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1904LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And1905CCand if1906INif that1907DTthat history1908NNhistory ,1909,, an1910DTan understandable1911JJunderstandable power1912NNpower to1913TOto give1914VVgive to1915TOto a1916DTa prosecutor1917NNprosecutor ,1918,, is1919VBZbe to1920TOto be1921VBbe valid1922JJvalid ,1923,, courts1924NNScourt ,1925,, stay1926VVstay out1927RPout of1928INof it1929PPit .1930SENT. Now1931RBnow that1932DTthat does1933VVZdo not1934RBnot apply1935VVapply where1936WRBwhere what1937WPwhat 's1938VBZbe at1939INat issue1940NNissue is1941VBZbe not1942RBnot a1943DTa prosecutor1944NNprosecutor making1945VVGmake an1946DTan individualized1947VVNindividualize decision1948NNdecision but1949CCbut ,1950,, rather1951RBrather ,1952,, an1953DTan agency1954NNagency 's1955POS's policies1956NNSpolicy ...1957:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1958LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right1959RBright .1960SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1961LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...1962:... generalized1963VVNgeneralize ,1964,, written1965VVNwrite down1966RPdown ,1967,, and1968CCand I1969PPI can1970MDcan 't1971RB't think1972VVPthink of1973INof a1974DTa reason1975NNreason why1976WRBwhy in1977INin such1978PDTsuch a1979DTa case1980NNcase you1981PPyou would1982MDwould n't1983RBn't review1984VVreview it1985PPit in1986INin a1987DTa court1988NNcourt .1989SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]1990LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So1991RBso ,1992,, respectfully1993RBrespectfully ,1994,, Your1995PP$your Honor1996NPHonor ,1997,, I1998PPI strongly1999RBstrongly disagree2000VVPdisagree because2001INbecause Chaney2002NPChaney itself2003PPitself involved2004VVDinvolve not2005RBnot a2006DTa prosecutor2007NNprosecutor but2008CCbut an2009DTan agency2010NNagency and2011CCand not2012RBnot a2013DTa single2014JJsingle shot2015NNshot enforcement2016NNenforcement action2017NNaction but2018CCbut a2019DTa general2020JJgeneral policy2021NNpolicy .2022SENT. Here2023RBhere 's2024VBZbe what2025WPwhat the2026DTthe FDA2027NPFDA said2028VVDsay in2029INin the2030DTthe letter2031NNletter denying2032VVGdeny the2033DTthe petition2034NNpetition brought2035VVNbring by2036INby the2037DTthe inmates2038NNSinmate to2039TOto have2040VHhave it2041PPit regulate2042VVregulate the2043DTthe state2044NNstate exercise2045NNexercise of2046INof the2047DTthe death2048NNdeath penalty2049NNpenalty .2050SENT. This2051DTthis is2052VBZbe their2053PP$their principal2054JJprincipal conclusion2055NNconclusion .2056SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]2057LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yeah2058NPYeah .2059SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2060LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] "2061``" For2062INfor the2063DTthe reasons2064NNSreason given2065VVNgive below2066INbelow ,2067,, we2068PPwe conclude2069VVPconclude that2070IN/thatthat the2071DTthe use2072NNuse of2073INof lethal2074JJlethal injection2075NNinjection by2076INby state2077NNstate penal2078JJpenal systems2079NNSsystem is2080VBZbe a2081DTa practice2082NNpractice over2083INover which2084WDTwhich FDA2085NPFDA has2086VHZhave no2087DTno jurisdiction2088NNjurisdiction and2089CCand ,2090,, therefore2091RBtherefore ,2092,, that2093IN/thatthat FDA2094NPFDA has2095VHZhave no2096DTno authority2097NNauthority to2098TOto take2099VVtake the2100DTthe actions2101NNSaction your2102PP$your petition2103NNpetition requests2104NNSrequest .2105SENT. Accordingly2106RBaccordingly ,2107,, your2108PP$your petition2109NNpetition is2110VBZbe denied2111VVNdeny .2112SENT. "2113``" It2114PPit later2115RBRlater provided2116VVDprovide as2117INas the2118DTthe alternative2119JJalternative rationale2120NNrationale a2121DTa policy2122NNpolicy rationale2123NNrationale ,2124,, and2125CCand it2126PPit says2127VVZsay later2128RBRlater :2129:: "2130``" Thus2131RBthus ,2132,, as2133INas a2134DTa secondary2135JJsecondary and2136CCand separate2137JJseparate basis2138NNbasis of2139INof denial2140NNdenial ,2141,, we2142PPwe decline2143VVPdecline as2144INas a2145DTa matter2146NNmatter of2147INof enforcement2148NNenforcement discretion2149NNdiscretion to2150TOto pursue2151VVpursue supplies2152NNSsupply of2153INof drugs2154NNSdrug under2155INunder state2156NNstate control2157NNcontrol that2158WDTthat will2159MDwill be2160VBbe used2161VVNuse for2162INfor execution2163NNexecution by2164INby lethal2165JJlethal injection2166NNinjection .2167SENT. "2168''" So2169RBso ,2170,, in2171INin Chaney2172NPChaney ,2173,, the2174DTthe FDA2175NPFDA clearly2176RBclearly was2177VBDbe announcing2178VVGannounce a2179DTa categorical2180JJcategorical policy2181NNpolicy that2182IN/thatthat it2183PPit was2184VBDbe n't2185RBn't going2186VVGgo to2187TOto regulate2188VVregulate the2189DTthe state2190NNstate use2191NNuse of2192INof drugs2193NNSdrug in2194INin carrying2195VVGcarry out2196RPout the2197DTthe death2198NNdeath penalty2199NNpenalty .2200SENT. And2201CCand it2202PPit was2203VBDbe n't2204RBn't a2205DTa criminal2206JJcriminal prosecution2207NNprosecution .2208SENT. So2209RBso I2210PPI think2211VVPthink it2212PPit 's2213VBZbe on2214INon all2215DTall fours2216NNSfour in2217INin favor2218NNfavor of2219INof us2220PPus .2221SENT. Here2222RBhere ,2223,, we2224PPwe have2225VHPhave an2226DTan exercise2227NNexercise of2228INof enforcement2229NNenforcement discretion2230NNdiscretion that2231WDTthat is2232VBZbe committed2233VVNcommit to2234TOto the2235DTthe agency2236NNagency 's2237POS's unreviewable2238JJunreviewable discretion2239NNdiscretion under2240INunder Chaney2241NPChaney .2242SENT. It2243PPit does2244VVZdo n't2245RBn't fall2246VVfall with2247INwith any2248DTany ...2249:... within2250INwithin any2251DTany of2252INof the2253DTthe exceptions2254NNSexception to2255TOto Chaney2256NPChaney ,2257,, where2258WRBwhere Congress2259NPCongress either2260RBeither restricts2261VVZrestrict the2262DTthe exercise2263NNexercise of2264INof that2265DTthat discretion2266NNdiscretion ,2267,, because2268RBbecause ,2269,, here2270RBhere ,2271,, we2272PPwe 're2273VBPbe talking2274VVGtalk about2275INabout enforcement2276NNenforcement ,2277,, not2278RBnot non-enforcement2279NNnon-enforcement ,2280,, and2281CCand it2282PPit does2283VVZdo n't2284RBn't fall2285VVfall under2286INunder the2287DTthe complete2288JJcomplete abdication2289NNabdication exception2290NNexception to2291TOto Chaney2292NPChaney because2293INbecause ,2294,, again2295RBagain ,2296,, we2297PPwe 're2298VBPbe talking2299VVGtalk about2300INabout enforcement2301NNenforcement and2302CCand not2303RBnot non-enforcement2304NNnon-enforcement .2305SENT. And2306CCand Judge2307NPJudge ...2308:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2309LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Would2310MDwould n't2311RBn't what2312WDTwhat ...2313:... would2314MDwould n't2315RBn't what2316WPwhat you2317PPyou just2318RBjust read2319VVPread also2320RBalso have2321VHhave made2322VVNmake DACA2323NPDACA itself2324PPitself unreviewable2325JJunreviewable ,2326,, to2327TOto pick2328VVpick up2329RPup on2330INon Justice2331NPJustice Kagan2332NPKagan 's2333POS's question2334NNquestion from2335INfrom earlier2336RBRearlier ?2337SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2338LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] No2339NPNo ,2340,, Your2341PP$your Honor2342NPHonor ,2343,, and2344CCand ,2345,, again2346RBagain ,2347,, because2348RBbecause ,2349,, critically2350RBcritically ,2351,, it2352PPit falls2353VVZfall within2354INwithin ...2355:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2356LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] What2357WPWhat ...2358:... what2359WPwhat 's2360VBZbe the2361DTthe distinction2362NNdistinction between2363INbetween DACA2364NPDACA and2365CCand the2366DTthe FDA2367NPFDA policy2368NNpolicy ?2369SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2370LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Oh2371NPOh ,2372,, the2373DTthe DACA2374NPDACA and2375CCand the2376DTthe FDA2377NPFDA policy2378NNpolicy ?2379SENT? [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2380LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Yeah2381NPYeah .2382SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2383LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Well2384UHWell ,2385,, because2386RBbecause ,2387,, in2388INin the2389DTthe FDA2390NPFDA policy2391NNpolicy ,2392,, nobody2393NNnobody was2394VBDbe claiming2395VVGclaim that2396IN/thatthat somehow2397RBsomehow a2398DTa statute2399NNstatute restricted2400VVDrestrict the2401DTthe FDA2402NPFDA 's2403POS's ability2404NNability to2405TOto not2406RBnot enforce2407VVenforce the2408DTthe law2409NNlaw .2410SENT. Nobody2411NNnobody made2412VVDmake that2413DTthat argument2414NNargument .2415SENT. In2416INin the2417DTthe DAPA2418NPDAPA litigation2419NNlitigation ,2420,, I2421PPI think2422VVPthink is2423VBZbe maybe2424RBmaybe what2425WPwhat you2426PPyou 're2427VBPbe referencing2428VVGreference ,2429,, Texas2430NPTexas specifically2431RBspecifically argued2432VVDargue that2433IN/thatthat the2434DTthe INA2435NPINA did2436VVDdo ,2437,, in2438INin fact2439NNfact ,2440,, restrict2441VVrestrict the2442DTthe agency2443NNagency 's2444POS's authority2445NNauthority to2446TOto exercise2447VVexercise its2448PP$its enforcement2449NNenforcement discretion2450NNdiscretion to2451TOto not2452RBnot enforce2453VVenforce the2454DTthe law2455NNlaw .2456SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]2457LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Well2458UHWell ,2459,, one2460CDone of2461INof the2462DTthe ...2463:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2464LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] And2465CCand ,2466,, again2467RBagain ...2468:... [JUSTICE ALITO]2469LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] ...2470:... things2471NNSthing that2472RBthat ...2473:... one2474CDone of2475INof the2476DTthe things2477NNSthing that2478WDTthat Texas2479NPTexas argued2480VVDargue in2481INin the2482DTthe DAPA2483NPDAPA case2484NNcase was2485VBDbe that2486IN/thatthat the2487DTthe agency2488NNagency action2489NNaction in2490INin question2491NNquestion there2492RBthere conferred2493VVDconfer certain2494JJcertain benefits2495NNSbenefit on2496INon the2497DTthe individuals2498NNSindividual who2499WPwho were2500VBDbe affected2501VVNaffect .2502SENT. And2503CCand if2504INif that2505WDTthat was2506VBDbe sufficient2507JJsufficient to2508TOto make2509VVmake that2510DTthat reviewable2511JJreviewable ,2512,, does2513VVZdo the2514DTthe wind-down2515NNwind-down of2516INof DACA2517NPDACA remove2518VVremove certain2519JJcertain benefits2520NNSbenefit that2521IN/thatthat individuals2522NNSindividual would2523MDwould have2524VHhave ?2525SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2526LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right2527NPRight .2528SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]2529LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] And2530CCand ,2531,, if2532INif it2533PPit does2534VVZdo ,2535,, would2536MDwould that2537RBthat make2538VVmake this2539DTthis reviewable2540JJreviewable ?2541SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2542LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] I2543PPI ...2544:... I2545PPI ...2546:... I2547PPI think2548VVPthink the2549DTthe answer2550NNanswer is2551VBZbe no2552RBno and2553CCand no2554RBno .2555SENT. And2556CCand the2557DTthe reason2558NNreason why2559WRBwhy is2560VBZbe ,2561,, first2562JJfirst of2563INof all2564DTall ,2565,, the2566DTthe rescission2567NNrescission of2568INof DACA2569NPDACA does2570VVZdo n't2571RBn't rescind2572VVrescind any2573DTany benefits2574NNSbenefit .2575SENT. Those2576DTthose benefits2577NNSbenefit are2578VBPbe allowed2579VVNallow to2580TOto expire2581VVexpire on2582INon their2583PP$their own2584JJown terms2585NNSterm .2586SENT. But2587CCbut ,2588,, even2589RBeven putting2590VVGput that2591IN/thatthat to2592TOto the2593DTthe side2594NNside ,2595,, the2596DTthe work2597NNwork authorization2598NNauthorization and2599CCand the2600DTthe other2601JJother benefits2602NNSbenefit are2603VBPbe simply2604RBsimply a2605DTa collateral2606NNcollateral consequence2607NNconsequence of2608INof the2609DTthe exercise2610NNexercise of2611INof prosecutorial2612JJprosecutorial discretion2613NNdiscretion itself2614PPitself .2615SENT. So2616RBso they2617PPthey do2618VVPdo n't2619RBn't recognize2620VVrecognize ...2621:... they2622PPthey do2623VVPdo n't2624RBn't make2625VVmake the2626DTthe prosecutorial2627JJprosecutorial discretion2628NNdiscretion itself2629PPitself reviewable2630JJreviewable ;2631:; otherwise2632RBotherwise ,2633,, every2634DTevery grant2635NNgrant or2636CCor denial2637NNdenial of2638INof deferred2639JJdeferred action2640NNaction would2641MDwould be2642VBbe subject2643JJsubject to2644TOto APA2645NPAPA review2646NNreview because2647INbecause every2648DTevery grant2649NNgrant and2650CCand denial2651NNdenial of2652INof deferred2653JJdeferred action2654NNaction has2655VHZhave collateral2656JJcollateral consequences2657NNSconsequence that2658IN/thatthat impact2659NNimpact work2660NNwork authorization2661NNauthorization .2662SENT. If2663INif I2664PPI could2665MDcould give2666VVgive you2667PPyou a2668DTa hypothetical2669JJhypothetical that2670IN/thatthat I2671PPI think2672VVPthink makes2673VVZmake it2674PPit more2675RBRmore concrete2676JJconcrete :2677:: Suppose2678VVsuppose a2679DTa prosecutor2680NNprosecutor has2681VHZhave a2682DTa drug2683NNdrug diversion2684NNdiversion program2685NNprogram ,2686,, and2687CCand he2688PPhe says2689VVZsay that2690IN/thatthat I2691PPI 'm2692VBPbe not2693RBnot going2694VVGgo to2695TOto prosecute2696VVprosecute this2697DTthis particular2698JJparticular category2699NNcategory of2700INof drug2701NNdrug offenses2702NNSoffense if2703INif the2704DTthe individuals2705NNSindividual agree2706VVPagree to2707TOto enter2708VVenter into2709INinto drug2710NNdrug treatment2711NNtreatment .2712SENT. The2713DTthe drug2714NNdrug treatment2715NNtreatment is2716VBZbe a2717DTa collateral2718JJcollateral consequence2719NNconsequence of2720INof and2721CCand a2722DTa benefit2723NNbenefit that2724WDTthat flows2725VVZflow from2726INfrom the2727DTthe prosecutorial2728JJprosecutorial decision2729NNdecision ,2730,, but2731CCbut it2732PPit does2733VVZdo n't2734RBn't render2735VVrender the2736DTthe prosecutorial2737JJprosecutorial decision2738NNdecision itself2739PPitself subject2740VVPsubject to2741TOto review2742VVreview .2743SENT. And2744CCand ,2745,, likewise2746RBlikewise ,2747,, if2748INif a2749DTa new2750JJnew prosecutor2751NNprosecutor comes2752VVZcome in2753INin and2754CCand says2755VVZsay ,2756,, I2757PPI do2758VVPdo n't2759RBn't like2760VVlike drug2761NNdrug diversion2762NNdiversion programs2763NNSprogram ,2764,, I2765PPI want2766VVPwant to2767TOto have2768VHhave a2769DTa zero2770CDzero tolerance2771NNtolerance policy2772NNpolicy for2773INfor drug2774NNdrug offenses2775NNSoffense ,2776,, that2777WDTthat is2778VBZbe n't2779RBn't reviewable2780JJreviewable either2781RBeither .2782SENT. But2783CCbut I2784PPI do2785VVPdo think2786VVthink that2787IN/thatthat the2788DTthe challenge2789NNchallenge to2790TOto DAPA2791NPDAPA in2792INin the2793DTthe prior2794JJprior litigation2795NNlitigation was2796VBDbe reviewable2797JJreviewable ...2798:... to2799TOto be2800VBbe clear2801JJclear ,2802,, it2803PPit was2804VBDbe reviewable2805JJreviewable because2806INbecause it2807PPit fell2808VVDfall within2809INwithin the2810DTthe Chaney2811NPChaney exception2812NNexception .2813SENT. Texas2814NPTexas argued2815VVDargue ,2816,, the2817DTthe Fifth2818NPFifth Circuit2819NPCircuit agreed2820VVDagree ,2821,, that2822IN/thatthat the2823DTthe INA2824NPINA ,2825,, in2826INin fact2827NNfact ,2828,, restricted2829VVNrestrict the2830DTthe Department2831NPDepartment of2832INof Homeland2833NNhomeland Security2834NPSecurity 's2835POS's ability2836NNability to2837TOto not2838RBnot enforce2839VVenforce the2840DTthe law2841NNlaw .2842SENT. And2843CCand ,2844,, frankly2845RBfrankly ,2846,, we2847PPwe ...2848:... we2849PPwe ...2850:... we2851PPwe agree2852VVPagree with2853INwith that2854DTthat .2855SENT. But2856CCbut the2857DTthe problem2858NNproblem here2859RBhere is2860VBZbe that2861IN/thatthat there2862EXthere 's2863VBZbe no2864DTno argument2865NNargument by2866INby anybody2867NNanybody or2868CCor any2869DTany possible2870JJpossible argument2871NNargument that2872WDTthat could2873MDcould be2874VBbe made2875VVNmake that2876IN/thatthat somehow2877RBsomehow the2878DTthe INA2879NPINA restricts2880VVZrestrict the2881DTthe Department2882NPDepartment of2883INof Homeland2884NNhomeland Security2885NPSecurity 's2886POS's authority2887NNauthority to2888TOto enforce2889VVenforce the2890DTthe law2891NNlaw .2892SENT. After2893INafter all2894DTall ,2895,, Congress2896NPCongress typically2897RBtypically wants2898VVZwant the2899DTthe executive2900JJexecutive branch2901NNbranch to2902TOto enforce2903VVenforce the2904DTthe laws2905NNSlaw ...2906:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2907LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] General2908NPGeneral ...2909:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2910LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...2911:... that2912IN/thatthat it2913PPit passes2914VVZpass .2915SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2916LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...2917:... are2918VBPbe you2919PPyou ...2920:... is2921VBZbe this2922DTthis an2923DTan appropriate2924JJappropriate moment2925NNmoment to2926TOto move2927VVmove to2928TOto ,2929,, assuming2930VVGassume reviewability2931NNreviewability ,2932,, the2933DTthe merits2934NNSmerit ?2935SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2936LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Any2937DTany time2938NNtime you2939PPyou want2940VVPwant to2941TOto move2942VVmove there2943RBthere ,2944,, Your2945PP$your Honor2946NPHonor ...2947:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2948LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] All2949DTall right2950NNright .2951SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]2952LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...2953:... I2954PPI 'll2955MDwill move2956VVmove there2957RBthere .2958SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2959LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] One2960CDOne ...2961:... one2962CDone ...2963:... one2964CDone argument2965NNargument that2966IN/thatthat the2967DTthe other2968JJother side2969NNside makes2970VVZmake along2971INalong those2972DTthose lines2973NNSline is2974VBZbe similar2975JJsimilar to2976TOto this2977DTthis one2978CDone we2979PPwe 've2980VHPhave just2981RBjust been2982VBNbe considering2983VVGconsider ,2984,, the2985DTthe reliance2986NNreliance interests2987NNSinterest that2988WDTthat have2989VHPhave grown2990VVNgrow up2991RPup around2992INaround DACA2993NPDACA .2994SENT. And2995CCand what2996WPwhat do2997VVPdo ...2998:... what2999WPwhat do3000VVPdo you3001PPyou say3002VVPsay to3003TOto that3004DTthat and3005CCand whether3006INwhether they3007PPthey 've3008VHPhave been3009VBNbe adequately3010RBadequately considered3011VVNconsider in3012INin this3013DTthis case3014NNcase ?3015SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3016LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Sure3017NPSure .3018SENT. Two3019CDTwo things3020NNSthing ,3021,, Your3022PP$your Honor3023NPHonor .3024SENT. First3025RBfirst ,3026,, I3027PPI would3028MDwould say3029VVsay that3030IN/thatthat to3031TOto the3032DTthe extent3033NNextent there3034EXthere are3035VBPbe any3036DTany reliance3037NNreliance interests3038NNSinterest ,3039,, they3040PPthey 're3041VBPbe extremely3042RBextremely limited3043VVNlimit .3044SENT. DACA3045NPDACA was3046VBDbe always3047RBalways meant3048VVNmean to3049TOto be3050VBbe a3051DTa temporary3052JJtemporary stopgap3053NNstopgap measure3054NNmeasure that3055WDTthat could3056MDcould be3057VBbe rescinded3058VVNrescind at3059INat any3060DTany time3061NNtime ,3062,, which3063WDTwhich is3064VBZbe why3065WRBwhy it3066PPit was3067VBDbe only3068RBonly granted3069VVNgrant in3070INin two-year3071JJtwo-year increments3072NNSincrement .3073SENT. So3074RBso I3075PPI do3076VVPdo n't3077RBn't think3078VVthink anybody3079NNanybody could3080MDcould have3081VHhave reasonably3082RBreasonably assumed3083VVNassume that3084IN/thatthat DACA3085NPDACA was3086VBDbe going3087VVGgo to3088TOto remain3089VVremain in3090INin effect3091NNeffect in3092INin perpetuity3093NNperpetuity .3094SENT. Even3095RBeven putting3096VVGput that3097IN/thatthat to3098TOto the3099DTthe side3100NNside here3101RBhere ,3102,, the3103DTthe agency3104NNagency considered3105VVDconsider the3106DTthe reliance3107NNreliance interests3108NNSinterest .3109SENT. Secretary3110NPSecretary Nielsen3111NPNielsen did3112VVDdo so3113RBso quite3114RBquite clearly3115RBclearly and3116CCand explicitly3117RBexplicitly .3118SENT. The3119DTthe agency3120NNagency mitigated3121VVDmitigate the3122DTthe reliance3123NNreliance interests3124NNSinterest through3125INthrough the3126DTthe orderly3127JJorderly wind-down3128NNwind-down ,3129,, and3130CCand it3131PPit simply3132RBsimply concluded3133VVDconclude that3134IN/thatthat beyond3135INbeyond that3136WDTthat it3137PPit did3138VVDdo n't3139RBn't justify3140VVjustify maintaining3141VVGmaintain in3142INin perpetuity3143NNperpetuity a3144DTa program3145NNprogram that3146WDTthat actively3147RBactively facilitated3148VVDfacilitate violations3149NNSviolation of3150INof the3151DTthe law3152NNlaw by3153INby hundreds3154NNShundred of3155INof thousands3156NNSthousand of3157INof individuals3158NNSindividual .3159SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3160LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] May3161MDmay I3162PPI ask3163VVask ...3164:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3165LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] If3166INif I3167PPI ...3168:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3169LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] I3170PPI 'm3171VBPbe sorry3172JJsorry .3173SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3174LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I3175PPI 'm3176VBPbe sorry3177JJsorry .3178SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]3179LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] No3180UHNo ,3181,, no3182UHno ,3183,, continue3184VVcontinue .3185SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3186LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Thank3187VVthank you3188PPyou .3189SENT. If3190INif I3191PPI understand3192VVPunderstand ,3193,, though3194RBthough ,3195,, your3196PP$your colleague3197NNcolleague 's3198POS's argument3199NNargument on3200INon the3201DTthe other3202JJother side3203NNside ,3204,, it3205PPit 's3206VBZbe not3207RBnot that3208IN/thatthat Secretary3209NPSecretary Nielsen3210NPNielsen failed3211VVDfail to3212TOto consider3213VVconsider reliance3214NNreliance interests3215NNSinterest .3216SENT. There3217EXthere 's3218VBZbe that3219DTthat paragraph3220NNparagraph ,3221,, I3222PPI believe3223VVPbelieve ,3224,, in3225INin the3226DTthe petition3227NNpetition appendix3228NNappendix around3229INaround 1253230CD@card@ ,3231,, somewhere3232RBsomewhere in3233INin there3234RBthere .3235SENT. There3236EXthere 's3237VBZbe a3238DTa ...3239:... there3240EXthere 's3241VBZbe a3242DTa paragraph3243NNparagraph .3244SENT. But3245CCbut that3246DTthat ...3247:... but3248CCbut that3249IN/thatthat given3250VVNgive the3251DTthe extent3252NNextent of3253INof the3254DTthe reliance3255NNreliance interests3256NNSinterest and3257CCand the3258DTthe size3259NNsize of3260INof the3261DTthe class3262NNclass ,3263,, more3264RBRmore needed3265VVNneed to3266TOto be3267VBbe said3268VVNsay ,3269,, more3270JJRmore could3271MDcould be3272VBbe said3273VVNsay ,3274,, and3275CCand it3276PPit would3277MDwould n't3278RBn't be3279VBbe a3280DTa huge3281JJhuge burden3282NNburden to3283TOto require3284VVrequire the3285DTthe government3286NNgovernment on3287INon remand3288NNremand to3289TOto ...3290:... to3291TOto say3292VVsay more3293RBRmore .3294SENT. What3295WPWhat ...3296:... what3297WPwhat ...3298:... what3299WPwhat ...3300:... what3301WPwhat do3302VVPdo you3303PPyou say3304VVPsay to3305TOto that3306DTthat ?3307SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3308LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So3309RBso ...3310:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3311LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] As3312INas I3313PPI understand3314VVPunderstand that3315IN/thatthat ,3316,, that3317WDTthat 's3318VBZbe the3319DTthe nature3320NNnature of3321INof the3322DTthe argument3323NNargument .3324SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3325LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right3326RBright .3327SENT. And3328CCand I3329PPI guess3330VVPguess I3331PPI 'd3332MDwould have3333VHhave a3334DTa couple3335NNcouple of3336INof responses3337NNSresponse to3338TOto that3339DTthat .3340SENT. The3341DTthe first3342JJfirst is3343VBZbe that3344IN/thatthat I3345PPI ...3346:... I3347PPI do3348VVPdo n't3349RBn't think3350VVthink it3351PPit reflects3352VVZreflect an3353DTan accurate3354JJaccurate understanding3355NNunderstanding of3356INof APA3357NPAPA review3358NNreview .3359SENT. As3360INas this3361DTthis Court3362NPCourt has3363VHZhave repeatedly3364RBrepeatedly made3365VVNmake clear3366JJclear ,3367,, really3368RBreally ,3369,, the3370DTthe only3371JJonly thing3372NNthing that3373WDTthat matters3374VVZmatter is3375VBZbe whether3376INwhether the3377DTthe agency3378NNagency ...3379:... and3380CCand I3381PPI think3382VVPthink I3383PPI 'm3384VBPbe quoting3385VVGquote from3386INfrom the3387DTthe case3388NNcase law3389NNlaw ...3390:... completely3391RBcompletely failed3392VVNfail to3393TOto consider3394VVconsider an3395DTan important3396JJimportant aspect3397NNaspect of3398INof the3399DTthe question3400NNquestion .3401SENT. And3402CCand I3403PPI do3404VVPdo n't3405RBn't think3406VVthink that3407IN/thatthat you3408PPyou can3409MDcan even3410RBeven remotely3411RBremotely argue3412VVPargue here3413RBhere ,3414,, under3415INunder State3416NPState Farm3417NPFarm ,3418,, that3419WDTthat we3420PPwe completely3421RBcompletely failed3422VVDfail to3423TOto consider3424VVconsider an3425DTan important3426JJimportant aspect3427NNaspect of3428INof the3429DTthe question3430NNquestion .3431SENT. Secondly3432RBsecondly ,3433,, I3434PPI think3435VVPthink that3436IN/thatthat Secretary3437NPSecretary Duke3438NPDuke 's3439POS's memorandum3440NNmemorandum under3441INunder the3442DTthe proper3443JJproper standard3444NNstandard clearly3445RBclearly satisfies3446VVZsatisfy the3447DTthe APA3448NPAPA standard3449NNstandard for3450INfor ...3451:... for3452INfor considering3453VVGconsider reliance3454NNreliance interests3455NNSinterest .3456SENT. She3457PPshe does3458VVZdo so3459RBso explicitly3460RBexplicitly in3461INin ...3462:... in3463INin the3464DTthe portion3465NNportion of3466INof the3467DTthe memorandum3468NNmemorandum that3469IN/thatthat you3470PPyou referenced3471VVDreference .3472SENT. And3473CCand ,3474,, in3475INin addition3476NNaddition ,3477,, what3478WPwhat I3479PPI 'd3480MDwould point3481VVpoint out3482RPout is3483VBZbe that3484IN/thatthat at3485INat the3486DTthe very3487JJvery beginning3488NNbeginning of3489INof her3490PP$her memorandum3491NNmemorandum ,3492,, page3493NNpage 23494CD2 ,3495,, she3496PPshe specifically3497RBspecifically says3498VVZsay that3499IN/thatthat one3500CDone of3501INof the3502DTthe things3503NNSthing that3504IN/thatthat she3505PPshe considered3506VVDconsider were3507VBDbe the3508DTthe judicial3509JJjudicial opinions3510NNSopinion reviewing3511VVGreview the3512DTthe Duke3513NPDuke Memorandum3514NPMemorandum ,3515,, all3516DTall of3517INof the3518DTthe district3519NNdistrict court3520NNcourt decisions3521NNSdecision .3522SENT. And3523CCand so3524RBso then3525RBthen ,3526,, when3527WRBwhen she3528PPshe gets3529VVZget to3530TOto the3531DTthe specific3532JJspecific discussion3533NNdiscussion of3534INof reliance3535NNreliance interests3536NNSinterest ,3537,, she3538PPshe says3539VVZsay that3540IN/thatthat she3541PPshe is3542VBZbe keenly3543RBkeenly aware3544JJaware that3545IN/thatthat people3546NNSpeople have3547VHPhave ordered3548VVNorder their3549PP$their lives3550NNSlife in3551INin light3552NNlight of3553INof the3554DTthe DACA3555NPDACA decision3556NNdecision .3557SENT. So3558RBso I3559PPI think3560VVPthink it3561PPit 's3562VBZbe quite3563RBquite clear3564JJclear that3565IN/thatthat she3566PPshe is3567VBZbe fully3568RBfully taking3569VVGtake into3570INinto account3571NNaccount the3572DTthe whole3573JJwhole panoply3574NNpanoply of3575INof reliance3576NNreliance interests3577NNSinterest that3578WDTthat were3579VBDbe discussed3580VVNdiscuss ad3581NNad nauseam3582NNnauseam in3583INin the3584DTthe district3585NNdistrict court3586NNcourt decisions3587NNSdecision and3588CCand simply3589RBsimply concluding3590VVGconclude that3591IN/thatthat they3592PPthey did3593VVDdo n't3594RBn't just3595RBjust ...3596:... justify3597VVjustify maintaining3598VVGmaintain the3599DTthe policy3600NNpolicy .3601SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3602LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] If3603INif I3604PPI could3605MDcould continue3606VVcontinue the3607DTthe same3608JJsame question3609NNquestion because3610INbecause ,3611,, look3612VVlook ,3613,, the3614DTthe best3615JJSgood statement3616NNstatement of3617INof the3618DTthe law3619NNlaw in3620INin my3621PP$my mind3622NNmind ...3623:... this3624DTthis is3625VBZbe a3626DTa very3627RBvery old3628JJold principle3629NNprinciple ...3630:... again3631RBagain ,3632,, was3633VBDbe Justice3634NPJustice Scalia3635NPScalia 's3636POS's writing3637NNwriting for3638INfor the3639DTthe Court3640NPCourt in3641INin Fox3642NPFox .3643SENT. He3644PPhe says3645VVZsay ,3646,, when3647WRBwhen an3648DTan agency3649NNagency 's3650POS's "3651``" prior3652JJprior policy3653NNpolicy has3654VHZhave engendered3655VVNengender serious3656JJserious reliance3657NNreliance interests3658NNSinterest ,3659,, it3660PPit must3661MDmust be3662VBbe taken3663VVNtake into3664INinto account3665NNaccount .3666SENT. "3667''" All3668DTall right3669NNright .3670SENT. That3671DTthat 's3672VBZbe this3673DTthis case3674NNcase ,3675,, I3676PPI think3677VVPthink .3678SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3679LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh3680NPUh-huh .3681SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3682LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] All3683DTall right3684NNright .3685SENT. So3686RBso I3687PPI counted3688VVDcount ...3689:... I3690PPI had3691VHDhave my3692PP$my law3693NNlaw clerks3694NNSclerk count3695VVPcount ,3696,, actually3697RBactually ,3698,, not3699RBnot just3700RBjust the3701DTthe people3702NNSpeople who3703WPwho came3704VVDcome in3705INin ,3706,, you3707PPyou know3708VVPknow ,3709,, the3710DTthe 700,0003711CD@card@ ...3712:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3713LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right3714RBright .3715SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3716LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...3717:... they3718PPthey 've3719VHPhave never3720RBnever been3721VBNbe anywhere3722RBanywhere else3723RBelse .3724SENT. They3725PPthey ...3726:... they3727PPthey never3728RBnever have3729VHhave to3730TOto .3731SENT. But3732CCbut there3733EXthere are3734VBPbe all3735DTall kinds3736NNSkind of3737INof reliance3738NNreliance interests3739NNSinterest .3740SENT. I3741PPI counted3742VVDcount briefs3743NNSbrief in3744INin this3745DTthis Court3746NPCourt ,3747,, as3748INas I3749PPI 'm3750VBPbe sure3751JJsure you3752PPyou have3753VHPhave ,3754,, which3755WDTwhich state3756VVPstate different3757JJdifferent kinds3758NNSkind of3759INof reliance3760NNreliance interests3761NNSinterest .3762SENT. There3763EXthere are3764VBPbe 663765CD@card@ healthcare3766NNhealthcare organizations3767NNSorganization .3768SENT. There3769EXthere are3770VBPbe three3771CDthree labor3772NNlabor unions3773NNSunion .3774SENT. There3775EXthere are3776VBPbe 2103777CD@card@ educational3778JJeducational associations3779NNSassociation .3780SENT. There3781EXthere are3782VBPbe six3783CDsix military3784JJmilitary organizations3785NNSorganization .3786SENT. There3787EXthere are3788VBPbe three3789CDthree home3790NNhome builders3791NNSbuilder ,3792,, five3793CDfive states3794NNSstate plus3795INplus those3796DTthose involved3797JJinvolved ,3798,, 1083799CD@card@ ,3800,, I3801PPI think3802VVPthink ,3803,, municipalities3804NNSmunicipality and3805CCand cities3806NNScity ,3807,, 1293808CD@card@ religious3809JJreligious organizations3810NNSorganization ,3811,, and3812CCand 1453813CD@card@ businesses3814NNSbusiness .3815SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3816LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh3817NPUh-huh .3818SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3819LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And3820CCand they3821PPthey all3822DTall list3823NNlist reliance3824NNreliance interests3825NNSinterest ,3826,, or3827CCor most3828JJSmost of3829INof them3830PPthem list3831VVPlist interest3832NNinterest reliance3833NNreliance ...3834:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3835LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right3836NPRight .3837SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3838LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...3839:... interests3840NNSinterest applicable3841JJapplicable to3842TOto them3843PPthem ,3844,, which3845WDTwhich are3846VBPbe not3847RBnot quite3848RBquite the3849DTthe same3850JJsame ,3851,, they3852PPthey are3853VBPbe not3854RBnot quite3855RBquite the3856DTthe same3857JJsame as3858INas those3859DTthose of3860INof the3861DTthe 700,0003862CD@card@ who3863WPwho have3864VHPhave never3865RBnever seen3866VVNsee any3867DTany other3868JJother country3869NNcountry .3870SENT. And3871CCand so3872RBso then3873RBthen I3874PPI did3875VVDdo read3876VVread what3877WPwhat you3878PPyou just3879RBjust read3880VVPread to3881TOto me3882PPme .3883SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3884LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh3885NPUh-huh .3886SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3887LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Now3888RBnow you3889PPyou want3890VVPwant to3891TOto say3892VVsay anything3893NNanything about3894INabout the3895DTthe statement3896NNstatement you3897PPyou just3898RBjust read3899VVPread to3900TOto me3901PPme being3902VBGbe adequate3903JJadequate to3904TOto take3905VVtake into3906INinto account3907NNaccount that3908IN/thatthat broad3909JJbroad range3910NNrange of3911INof interests3912NNSinterest ?3913SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]3914LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yes3915NPYes ,3916,, Your3917PP$your Honor3918NPHonor ,3919,, I3920PPI do3921VVPdo ,3922,, because3923INbecause the3924DTthe first3925JJfirst thing3926NNthing I3927PPI want3928VVPwant to3929TOto say3930VVsay is3931VBZbe that3932IN/thatthat State3933NPState Farm3934NPFarm itself3935PPitself says3936VVZsay ,3937,, and3938CCand ,3939,, here3940RBhere ,3941,, I3942PPI 've3943VHPhave got3944VVNget the3945DTthe quote3946NNquote ,3947,, you3948PPyou violate3949VVPviolate the3950DTthe APA3951NPAPA only3952RBonly where3953WRBwhere you3954PPyou "3955``" entirely3956RBentirely fail3957VVfail to3958TOto consider3959VVconsider an3960DTan important3961JJimportant aspect3962NNaspect of3963INof the3964DTthe problem3965NNproblem .3966SENT. "3967''" Here3968RBhere ,3969,, Secretary3970NPSecretary Nielsen3971NPNielsen explicitly3972RBexplicitly considered3973VVDconsider the3974DTthe reliance3975NNreliance interests3976NNSinterest ,3977,, including3978VVGinclude all3979DTall of3980INof the3981DTthe things3982NNSthing that3983IN/thatthat you3984PPyou just3985RBjust listed3986VVDlist that3987WDTthat were3988VBDbe set3989VVNset forth3990RBforth in3991INin ...3992:... in3993INin excruciating3994JJexcruciating detail3995NNdetail in3996INin the3997DTthe numerous3998JJnumerous district3999NNdistrict court4000NNcourt decisions4001NNSdecision that4002WDTthat have4003VHPhave ruled4004VVNrule ...4005:... had4006VHDhave ruled4007VVNrule against4008INagainst us4009PPus ...4010:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]4011LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] But4012CCbut ...4013:... but4014CCbut not4015RBnot ...4016:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4017LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...4018:... which4019WDTwhich she4020PPshe says4021VVZsay ...4022:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]4023LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...4024:... but4025CCbut not4026RBnot in4027INin her4028PPher ...4029:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4030LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...4031:... she4032PPshe specifically4033RBspecifically considered4034VVDconsider .4035SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]4036LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...4037:... but4038CCbut not4039RBnot in4040INin her4041PP$her memo4042NNmemo .4043SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4044LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Well4045UHWell ,4046,, Your4047PP$your Honor4048NPHonor ,4049,, I4050PPI ,4051,, frankly4052RBfrankly ,4053,, think4054VVPthink that4055IN/thatthat she4056PPshe does4057VVZdo .4058SENT. But4059CCbut the4060DTthe other4061JJother thing4062NNthing that4063IN/thatthat I4064PPI would4065MDwould say4066VVsay is4067VBZbe that4068IN/thatthat under4069INunder this4070DTthis conception4071NNconception of4072INof APA4073NPAPA review4074NNreview ,4075,, DACA4076NPDACA and4077CCand DAPA4078NPDAPA likewise4079RBlikewise would4080MDwould have4081VHhave failed4082VVNfail arbitrary4083JJarbitrary and4084CCand capricious4085JJcapricious review4086NNreview because4087INbecause there4088EXthere is4089VBZbe not4090RBnot a4091DTa single4092JJsingle word4093NNword in4094INin the4095DTthe DACA4096NPDACA memo4097NNmemo itself4098PPitself or4099CCor the4100DTthe DAPA4101NPDAPA memo4102NNmemo itself4103PPitself explaining4104VVGexplain any4105DTany of4106INof the4107DTthe potential4108JJpotential costs4109NNScost or4110CCor benefits4111NNSbenefit or4112CCor impacts4113NNSimpact on4114INon other4115JJother people4116NNSpeople that4117IN/thatthat the4118DTthe implementation4119NNimplementation of4120INof the4121DTthe ...4122:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4123LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Just4124RBjust ...4125:... just4126RBjust back4127RBback ...4128:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]4129LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] If4130INif ...4131:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4132LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...4133:... DACA4134NNDACA program4135NNprogram would4136MDwould have4137VHhave had4138VHDhave .4139SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]4140LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Go4141NPGo ahead4142RBahead .4143SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]4144LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Go4145NPGo ahead4146RBahead .4147SENT. [4148SYM[ LAUGHTER4149NNlaughter ]4150SYM] [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4151LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] I4152PPI 'll4153MDwill take4154VVtake either4155RBeither one4156CDone ,4157,, Your4158PP$your Honor4159NPHonor .4160SENT. [4161SYM[ LAUGHTER4162NNlaughter ]4163SYM] [JUSTICE KAGAN]4164LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] If4165INif ...4166:... if4167INif I4168PPI understand4169VVPunderstand Secretary4170NPSecretary Nielsen4171NPNielsen 's4172POS's memo4173NNmemo correctly4174RBcorrectly ,4175,, Secretary4176NPSecretary Nielsen4177NPNielsen said4178VVDsay that4179IN/thatthat she4180PPshe ...4181:... she4182PPshe did4183VVDdo have4184VHhave a4185DTa ...4186:... a4187DTa conclusory4188JJconclusory statement4189NNstatement about4190INabout weighing4191VVGweigh the4192DTthe reliance4193NNreliance interests4194NNSinterest ,4195,, but4196CCbut she4197PPshe weighs4198VVZweigh them4199PPthem against4200INagainst what4201WPwhat she4202PPshe calls4203VVZcall ...4204:... I4205PPI think4206VVPthink it4207PPit 's4208VBZbe the4209DTthe questionable4210JJquestionable legality4211NNlegality of4212INof the4213DTthe program4214NNprogram .4215SENT. Now4216RBnow that4217DTthat assumes4218VVZassume one4219CDone of4220INof the4221DTthe things4222NNSthing that4223IN/thatthat we4224PPwe 're4225VBPbe all4226RBall here4227RBhere to4228TOto discuss4229VVdiscuss ,4230,, which4231WDTwhich is4232VBZbe that4233IN/thatthat the4234DTthe program4235NNprogram was4236VBDbe of4237INof questionable4238JJquestionable legality4239NNlegality .4240SENT. If4241INif the4242DTthe program4243NNprogram turns4244VVZturn out4245RPout not4246RBnot to4247TOto be4248VBbe of4249INof questionable4250JJquestionable legality4251NNlegality ,4252,, in4253INin other4254JJother words4255NNSword ,4256,, if4257INif some4258DTsome or4259CCor many4260JJmany of4261INof us4262PPus think4263VVPthink that4264IN/thatthat the4265DTthe original4266JJoriginal program4267NNprogram was4268VBDbe legal4269JJlegal ,4270,, how4271WRBhow does4272VVZdo her4273PP$her memo4274NNmemo suffice4275VVsuffice to4276TOto do4277VVdo that4278DTthat balancing4279NNbalancing ?4280SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4281LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Sure4282NPSure .4283SENT. For4284INfor a4285DTa couple4286NNcouple of4287INof reasons4288NNSreason ,4289,, Your4290PP$your Honor4291NPHonor .4292SENT. First4293RBfirst ,4294,, because4295INbecause she4296PPshe sets4297VVZset forth4298RBforth separate4299JJseparate and4300CCand independent4301JJindependent bases4302NNSbase justifying4303VVGjustify the4304DTthe rescission4305NNrescission :4306:: first4307RBfirst ,4308,, her4309PP$her belief4310NNbelief that4311IN/thatthat it4312PPit 's4313VBZbe illegal4314JJillegal ;4315:; second4316JJsecond ,4317,, her4318PP$her belief4319NNbelief that4320IN/thatthat there4321EXthere are4322VBPbe serious4323JJserious doubts4324NNSdoubt about4325INabout its4326PP$its illegality4327NNillegality ;4328:; and4329CCand ,4330,, third4331JJthird ,4332,, her4333PP$her conclusion4334NNconclusion that4335IN/thatthat ,4336,, as4337INas a4338DTa matter4339NNmatter of4340INof enforcement4341NNenforcement policy4342NNpolicy ,4343,, the4344DTthe Department4345NPDepartment of4346INof Homeland4347NNhomeland Security4348NNsecurity is4349VBZbe against4350INagainst these4351DTthese kinds4352NNSkind of4353INof broad-based4354JJbroad-based non-enforcement4355NNnon-enforcement decisions4356NNSdecision .4357SENT. Any4358DTany one4359CDone of4360INof those4361DTthose ,4362,, as4363INas her4364PP$her memo4365NNmemo explicitly4366RBexplicitly says4367VVZsay ...4368:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]4369LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] But4370CCbut in4371INin her4372PPher ...4373:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4374LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...4375:... is4376VBZbe a4377DTa separate4378JJseparate and4379CCand independent4380JJindependent basis4381NNbasis .4382SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]4383LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...4384:... in4385INin her4386PP$her statement4387NNstatement about4388INabout reliance4389NNreliance ,4390,, she4391PPshe particularly4392RBparticularly says4393VVZsay it4394PPit outweighs4395VVZoutweigh this4396DTthis questionably4397RBquestionably legal4398JJlegal program4399NNprogram .4400SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4401LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] I4402PPI think4403VVPthink what4404WPwhat she4405PPshe is4406VBZbe saying4407VVGsay here4408RBhere is4409VBZbe that4410IN/thatthat it4411PPit outweighs4412VVZoutweigh ...4413:... is4414VBZbe that4415IN/thatthat ,4416,, given4417VVNgive that4418IN/thatthat there4419EXthere are4420VBPbe extremely4421RBextremely limited4422VVNlimit reliance4423NNreliance interests4424NNSinterest in4425INin the4426DTthe first4427JJfirst place4428NNplace ,4429,, any4430DTany limited4431JJlimited reliance4432NNreliance interests4433NNSinterest that4434WDTthat exist4435VVPexist are4436VBPbe outweighed4437VVNoutweigh ...4438:... are4439VBPbe ...4440:... are4441VBPbe outweighed4442VVNoutweigh by4443INby all4444DTall of4445INof the4446DTthe different4447JJdifferent reasons4448NNSreason that4449IN/thatthat she4450PPshe has4451VHZhave articulated4452VVNarticulate as4453INas separate4454JJseparate and4455CCand independent4456JJindependent grounds4457NNSground for4458INfor rescinding4459VVGrescind DACA4460NPDACA .4461SENT. I4462PPI think4463VVPthink that4464DTthat 's4465VBZbe the4466DTthe only4467RBonly fair4468JJfair way4469NNway ...4470:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4471LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] General4472NPGeneral ...4473:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4474LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...4475:... that4476IN/thatthat you4477PPyou can4478MDcan read4479VVread that4480DTthat memorandum4481NNmemorandum .4482SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4483LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4484:... I'm4485NNI'm ...4486:... I4487PPI have4488VHPhave always4489RBalways had4490VHNhave some4491DTsome difficulty4492NNdifficulty in4493INin understanding4494VVGunderstand the4495DTthe illegality4496NNillegality of4497INof DACA4498NPDACA .4499SENT. DAPA4500NPDAPA I4501PPI put4502VVDput aside4503RPaside because4504INbecause ,4505,, in4506INin DAPA4507NPDAPA ...4508:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4509LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right4510NPRight .4511SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4512LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4513:... there4514EXthere was4515VBDbe actually4516RBactually a4517DTa process4518NNprocess for4519INfor attaining4520VVGattain a4521DTa pathway4522NNpathway to4523TOto residency4524NNresidency .4525SENT. And4526CCand I4527PPI saw4528VVDsee the4529DTthe argument4530NNargument that4531IN/thatthat what4532WPwhat DAPA4533NPDAPA did4534VVDdo was4535VBDbe contrary4536JJcontrary ,4537,, directly4538RBdirectly contrary4539JJcontrary ,4540,, to4541TOto that4542DTthat path4543NNpath .4544SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4545LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh4546NPUh-huh .4547SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4548LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But4549CCbut there4550RBthere ...4551:... I4552PPI do4553VVPdo n't4554RBn't see4555VVsee anything4556NNanything in4557INin the4558DTthe INA4559NPINA that4560WDTthat takes4561VVZtake away4562RPaway the4563DTthe discretion4564NNdiscretion of4565INof the4566DTthe agency4567NNagency in4568INin ordering4569VVGorder its4570PP$its enforcement4571NNenforcement policies4572NNSpolicy .4573SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4574LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right4575NPRight .4576SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4577LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] We4578PPwe all4579RBall know4580VVPknow it4581PPit has4582VHZhave limited4583VVNlimit resources4584NNSresource .4585SENT. It4586PPit can4587MDcan 't4588RB't ,4589,, even4590RBeven when4591WRBwhen it4592PPit wants4593VVZwant to4594TOto ...4595:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4596LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Uh-huh4597NPUh-huh .4598SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4599LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4600:... remove4601VVremove the4602DTthe vast4603JJvast majority4604NNmajority of4605INof aliens4606NNSalien we4607PPwe have4608VHPhave here4609RBhere .4610SENT. And4611CCand so4612RBso I4613PPI 've4614VHPhave always4615RBalways had4616VHNhave some4617DTsome difficulty4618NNdifficulty in4619INin understanding4620VVGunderstand what4621WPwhat 's4622VBZbe wrong4623JJwrong with4624INwith an4625DTan agency4626NNagency saying4627VVGsay ,4628,, we4629PPwe 're4630VBPbe going4631VVGgo to4632TOto prioritize4633VVprioritize our4634PP$our removals4635NNSremoval ,4636,, and4637CCand for4638INfor those4639DTthose people4640NNSpeople ,4641,, like4642INlike the4643DTthe DACA4644NPDACA people4645NNSpeople ...4646:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4647LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right4648RBright .4649SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4650LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4651:... who4652WPwho have4653VHPhave n't4654RBn't committed4655VVNcommit crimes4656NNScrime ,4657,, who4658WPwho are4659VBPbe lawfully4660RBlawfully employed4661VVNemploy ,4662,, who4663WPwho are4664VBPbe paying4665VVGpay taxes4666NNStaxis ,4667,, who4668WPwho pose4669VVPpose no4670DTno threat4671NNthreat to4672TOto our4673PP$our security4674NNsecurity ,4675,, and4676CCand there4677EXthere 's4678VBZbe a4679DTa whole4680JJwhole list4681NNlist of4682INof prerequisites4683NNSprerequisite ,4684,, we4685PPwe 're4686VBPbe not4687RBnot going4688VVGgo to4689TOto exercise4690VVexercise our4691PP$our limited4692JJlimited resources4693NNSresource ...4694:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4695LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yeah4696NPYeah .4697SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4698LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4699:... to4700TOto try4701VVtry to4702TOto get4703VVget rid4704JJrid of4705INof those4706DTthose people4707NNSpeople .4708SENT. I4709PPI ...4710:... I4711PPI still4712RBstill have4713VHPhave an4714DTan impossible4715JJimpossible time4716NNtime .4717SENT. I4718PPI know4719VVPknow you4720PPyou 're4721VBPbe going4722VVGgo to4723TOto argue4724VVargue contrary4725JJcontrary to4726TOto what4727WPwhat I4728PPI just4729RBjust said4730VVDsay .4731SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4732LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Sure4733NPSure .4734SENT. So4735RBso I4736PPI guess4737VVPguess I4738PPI have4739VHPhave three4740CDthree responses4741NNSresponse ,4742,, Your4743PP$your Honor4744NPHonor .4745SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4746LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] All4747DTall right4748NNright .4749SENT. But4750CCbut let4751VVlet me4752PPme just4753RBjust finish4754VVfinish my4755PP$my question4756NNquestion .4757SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4758LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Oh4759NPOh ,4760,, sure4761JJsure .4762SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4763LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Okay4764NPOkay ?4765SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4766LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yeah4767NPYeah .4768SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4769LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So4770INso putting4771VVGput aside4772RPaside that4773IN/thatthat ,4774,, the4775DTthe Secretary4776NPSecretary ,4777,, in4778INin giving4779VVGgive these4780DTthese extra4781JJextra reasons4782NNSreason ,4783,, because4784INbecause none4785NNnone of4786INof this4787DTthis was4788VBDbe in4789INin the4790DTthe Duke4791NPDuke memo4792NNmemo ,4793,, and4794CCand I4795PPI thought4796VVDthink basic4797JJbasic administrative4798JJadministrative law4799NNlaw is4800VBZbe you4801PPyou look4802VVPlook at4803INat what4804WPwhat 's4805VBZbe first4806RBfirst given4807VVNgive to4808TOto you4809PPyou ,4810,, not4811RBnot what4812WPwhat this4813DTthis ...4814:... you4815PPyou add4816VVPadd later4817RBRlater ,4818,, but4819CCbut assuming4820VVGassume you4821PPyou ignore4822VVPignore that4823IN/thatthat and4824CCand even4825RBeven look4826VVlook at4827INat the4828DTthe Nielsen4829NPNielsen memo4830NNmemo ,4831,, I4832PPI think4833VVPthink my4834PP$my colleagues4835NNScolleague have4836VHPhave rightly4837RBrightly pointed4838VVNpoint there4839EXthere 's4840VBZbe a4841DTa whole4842JJwhole lot4843NNlot of4844INof reliance4845NNreliance interests4846NNSinterest that4847WDTthat were4848VBDbe n't4849RBn't looked4850VVNlook at4851INat ,4852,, including4853VVGinclude the4854DTthe very4855JJvery President4856NPPresident of4857INof ...4858:... current4859JJcurrent President4860NNpresident telling4861VVGtell DACA-eligible4862NPDACA-eligible people4863NNSpeople that4864IN/thatthat they4865PPthey were4866VBDbe safe4867JJsafe under4868INunder him4869PPhim and4870CCand that4871IN/thatthat he4872PPhe would4873MDwould find4874VVfind a4875DTa way4876NNway to4877TOto keep4878VVkeep them4879PPthem here4880RBhere .4881SENT. And4882CCand so4883RBso he4884PPhe has4885VHZhave n't4886RBn't and4887CCand ,4888,, instead4889RBinstead ,4890,, he4891PPhe 's4892VHZhave done4893VVNdo this4894DTthis .4895SENT. And4896CCand that4897WDTthat ,4898,, I4899PPI think4900VVPthink ,4901,, has4902VHZhave something4903NNsomething to4904TOto be4905VBbe considered4906VVNconsider before4907INbefore you4908PPyou rescind4909VVPrescind the4910DTthe policy4911NNpolicy .4912SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4913LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right4914NPRight .4915SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4916LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Not4917RBnot just4918RBjust say4919VVPsay I4920PPI 'll4921MDwill give4922VVgive you4923PPyou six4924CDsix months4925NNSmonth to4926TOto do4927VVdo it4928PPit ...4929:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4930LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right4931RBright .4932SENT. So4933RBso ...4934:... so4935RBso ...4936:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4937LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4938:... to4939TOto destroy4940VVdestroy your4941PP$your lives4942NNSlife .4943SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]4944LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So4945RBso ...4946:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4947LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Putting4948VVGput all4949DTall of4950INof that4951DTthat aside4952RBaside ...4953:... and4954CCand I4955PPI 'm4956VBPbe going4957VVGgo to4958TOto get4959VVget to4960TOto my4961PP$my question4962NNquestion .4963SENT. [4964SYM[ LAUGHTER4965NNlaughter ]4966SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4967LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] And4968CCand maybe4969RBmaybe we4970PPwe 'd4971MDwould have4972VHhave an4973DTan opportunity4974NNopportunity to4975TOto hear4976VVhear the4977DTthe three4978CDthree answers4979NNSanswer .4980SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4981LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Well4982UHWell ,4983,, do4984VVPdo n't4985RBn't forget4986VVforget the4987DTthe three4988CDthree .4989SENT. I4990PPI know4991VVPknow you4992PPyou won4993MDwill 't4994RB't .4995SENT. But4996CCbut ,4997,, really4998RBreally ,4999,, where5000WRBwhere is5001VBZbe all5002RBall of5003INof this5004DTthis in5005INin the5006DTthe memo5007NNmemo ?5008SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5009LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Sure5010NPSure ,5011,, Your5012PP$your Honor5013NPHonor .5014SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]5015LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Where5016WRBwhere ...5017:... where5018WRBwhere is5019VBZbe all5020RBall of5021INof this5022DTthis really5023RBreally considered5024VVNconsider and5025CCand weighed5026VVNweigh ?5027SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5028LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So5029RBso ...5030:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]5031LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] And5032CCand where5033WRBwhere is5034VBZbe the5035DTthe political5036JJpolitical decision5037NNdecision made5038VVNmake clearly5039RBclearly ?5040SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5041LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So5042RBso ...5043:... so5044INso I5045PPI ...5046:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]5047LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] That5048IN/thatthat this5049DTthis is5050VBZbe not5051RBnot about5052INabout the5053DTthe law5054NNlaw ;5055:; this5056DTthis is5057VBZbe about5058RBabout our5059PP$our choice5060NNchoice to5061TOto destroy5062VVdestroy lives5063NNSlife ?5064SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5065LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yeah5066NPYeah .5067SENT. So5068RBso ,5069,, Your5070PP$your Honor5071NPHonor ,5072,, four5073CDfour responses5074NNSresponse now5075RBnow .5076SENT. I5077PPI think5078VVPthink I5079PPI 've5080VHPhave added5081VVNadd one5082CDone .5083SENT. [5084SYM[ LAUGHTER5085NNlaughter ]5086SYM] [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5087LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] The5088DTthe first5089JJfirst one5090CDone is5091VBZbe that5092IN/thatthat I5093PPI ...5094:... I5095PPI think5096VVPthink that5097IN/thatthat the5098DTthe prior5099JJprior President5100NPPresident did5101VVDdo n't5102RBn't ,5103,, could5104MDcould n't5105RBn't ,5106,, and5107CCand has5108VHZhave n't5109RBn't made5110VVNmake any5111DTany kind5112NNkind of5113INof promise5114NNpromise that5115IN/thatthat DACA5116NPDACA would5117MDwould remain5118VVremain in5119INin effect5120NNeffect in5121INin perpetuity5122NNperpetuity because5123INbecause it5124PPit would5125MDwould have5126VHhave been5127VBNbe impossible5128JJimpossible to5129TOto make5130VVmake that5131DTthat promise5132NNpromise .5133SENT. In5134INin fact5135NNfact ,5136,, every5137DTevery one5138CDone of5139INof my5140PP$my friends5141NNSfriend on5142INon the5143DTthe other5144JJother side5145NNside ,5146,, I5147PPI think5148VVPthink ,5149,, has5150VHZhave agreed5151VVNagree that5152IN/thatthat we5153PPwe could5154MDcould rescind5155VVrescind DACA5156NPDACA at5157INat any5158DTany time5159NNtime if5160INif ,5161,, at5162INat least5163JJSleast in5164INin their5165PP$their view5166NNview ,5167,, we5168PPwe did5169VVDdo provide5170VVprovide a5171DTa little5172JJlittle bit5173NNbit more5174RBRmore detailed5175JJdetailed of5176INof an5177DTan explanation5178NNexplanation .5179SENT. So5180RBso I5181PPI think5182VVPthink that5183WDTthat is5184VBZbe four5185CDfour square5186NNsquare against5187INagainst the5188DTthe notion5189NNnotion that5190IN/thatthat there5191EXthere are5192VBPbe some5193DTsome significant5194JJsignificant reliance5195NNreliance interests5196NNSinterest because5197INbecause all5198DTall that5199WDTthat they5200PPthey seem5201VVPseem to5202TOto be5203VBbe saying5204VVGsay is5205VBZbe we5206PPwe have5207VHPhave to5208TOto write5209VVwrite a5210DTa few5211JJfew more5212JJRmore words5213NNSword .5214SENT. Putting5215VVGput that5216IN/thatthat entirely5217RBentirely to5218TOto the5219DTthe side5220NNside and5221CCand turning5222VVGturn to5223TOto the5224DTthe legality5225NNlegality question5226NNquestion ,5227,, ultimately5228RBultimately ,5229,, I5230PPI do5231VVPdo n't5232RBn't think5233VVthink you5234PPyou ...5235:... my5236PP$my first5237JJfirst point5238NNpoint is5239VBZbe I5240PPI do5241VVPdo n't5242RBn't think5243VVthink you5244PPyou have5245VHPhave to5246TOto decide5247VVdecide ultimately5248RBultimately whether5249INwhether DACA5250NPDACA is5251VBZbe legal5252JJlegal or5253CCor illegal5254JJillegal because5255INbecause I5256PPI think5257VVPthink the5258DTthe other5259JJother reasons5260NNSreason we5261PPwe 've5262VHPhave given5263VVNgive are5264VBPbe more5265JJRmore than5266INthan sufficient5267JJsufficient to5268TOto justify5269VVjustify the5270DTthe rescission5271NNrescission ,5272,, both5273CCboth our5274PP$our serious5275JJserious doubts5276NNSdoubt about5277INabout its5278PP$its legality5279NNlegality ,5280,, as5281RBas well5282RBwell as5283INas our5284PP$our general5285JJgeneral opposition5286NNopposition to5287TOto broad-based5288JJbroad-based non-enforcement5289NNnon-enforcement policies5290NNSpolicy .5291SENT. After5292INafter all5293DTall ,5294,, the5295DTthe Department5296NPDepartment of5297INof Homeland5298NNhomeland Security5299NPSecurity is5300VBZbe a5301DTa law5302NNlaw enforcement5303NNenforcement agency5304NNagency ,5305,, and5306CCand a5307DTa law5308NNlaw enforcement5309NNenforcement agency5310NNagency does5311VVZdo n't5312RBn't have5313VHhave to5314TOto push5315VVpush its5316PP$its dubious5317JJdubious power5318NNpower to5319TOto not5320RBnot enforce5321VVenforce the5322DTthe law5323NNlaw to5324TOto its5325PP$its logical5326JJlogical extreme5327NNextreme .5328SENT. So5329RBso ...5330:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]5331LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] But5332CCbut do5333VVPdo n't5334RBn't you5335PPyou have5336VHPhave to5337TOto ...5338:... do5339VVPdo n't5340RBn't you5341PPyou have5342VHPhave to5343TOto set5344VVset up5345RPup some5346DTsome kind5347NNkind of5348INof categories5349NNScategory ?5350SENT? I5351PPI mean5352VVPmean ,5353,, everybody5354NNeverybody agrees5355VVZagree ,5356,, what5357WDTwhat is5358VBZbe that5359IN/thatthat ,5360,, how5361WRBhow many5362JJmany ,5363,, 115364CD@card@ million5365CDmillion people5366NNSpeople ?5367SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5368LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right5369NPRight .5370SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]5371LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] They5372PPthey do5373VVPdo n't5374RBn't have5375VHhave the5376DTthe resources5377NNSresource ,5378,, so5379RBso you5380PPyou have5381VHPhave to5382TOto prioritize5383VVprioritize .5384SENT. Everybody5385NNEverybody agrees5386VVZagree you5387PPyou have5388VHhave to5389TOto prioritize5390VVprioritize .5391SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5392LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Absolutely5393RBabsolutely ,5394,, Your5395PP$your Honor5396NPHonor .5397SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]5398LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] How5399WRBHow do5400VVPdo you5401PPyou ...5402:... how5403WRBhow do5404VVPdo you5405PPyou do5406VVPdo it5407PPit other5408JJother than5409INthan categorically5410RBcategorically ?5411SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5412LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Well5413UHWell ,5414,, and5415CCand that5416DTthat 's5417VBZbe my5418PP$my second5419JJsecond point5420NNpoint ,5421,, Your5422PP$your Honor5423NPHonor .5424SENT. My5425PP$my second5426JJsecond point5427NNpoint is5428VBZbe that5429IN/thatthat DACA5430NPDACA goes5431VVZgo far5432RBfar beyond5433INbeyond simply5434RBsimply diverting5435VVGdivert resources5436NNSresource to5437TOto higher5438JJRhigh priority5439NNpriority targets5440NNStarget ,5441,, which5442WDTwhich you5443PPyou are5444VBPbe absolutely5445RBabsolutely right5446RBright ,5447,, every5448DTevery law5449NNlaw enforcement5450NNenforcement agency5451NNagency has5452VHZhave to5453TOto divert5454VVdivert resources5455NNSresource to5456TOto higher5457JJRhigh priority5458NNpriority targets5459NNStarget .5460SENT. DACA5461NPDACA goes5462VVZgo materially5463RBmaterially further5464JJRfurther than5465INthan that5466DTthat because5467INbecause it5468PPit actively5469RBactively facilitates5470VVZfacilitate violations5471NNSviolation of5472INof the5473DTthe law5474NNlaw by5475INby providing5476VVGprovide advance5477NNadvance forbearance5478NNforbearance ,5479,, coupling5480VVGcouple it5481PPit with5482INwith affirmative5483JJaffirmative benefits5484NNSbenefit like5485INlike work5486NNwork authorization5487NNauthorization and5488CCand Social5489NPSocial Security5490NPSecurity benefits5491NNSbenefit ,5492,, doing5493VVGdo it5494PPit on5495INon a5496DTa categorical5497JJcategorical basis5498NNbasis .5499SENT. And5500CCand ,5501,, significantly5502RBsignificantly ...5503:... and5504CCand this5505DTthis was5506VBDbe my5507PP$my third5508JJthird point5509NNpoint ...5510:... it5511PPit has5512VHZhave no5513DTno limiting5514VVGlimit principle5515NNprinciple .5516SENT. On5517INon the5518DTthe ...5519:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]5520LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] So5521INso the5522DTthe ...5523:... the5524DTthe forbearance5525NNforbearance would5526MDwould be5527VBbe okay5528JJokay if5529INif it5530PPit ...5531:... there5532EXthere were5533VBDbe n't5534RBn't attendant5535JJattendant benefits5536NNSbenefit ?5537SENT? This5538DTthis ...5539:... we5540PPwe 're5541VBPbe not5542RBnot going5543VVGgo to5544TOto ...5545:... we5546PPwe 're5547VBPbe not5548RBnot going5549VVGgo to5550TOto immediately5551RBimmediately deport5552VVdeport the5553DTthe Dreamers5554NNSdreamer ,5555,, period5556NNperiod ?5557SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5558LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] I5559PPI think5560VVPthink that5561IN/thatthat would5562MDwould be5563VBbe ...5564:... if5565INif ...5566:... if5567INif you5568PPyou provided5569VVDprovide just5570RBjust the5571DTthe advanced5572JJadvanced forbearance5573NNforbearance ,5574,, I5575PPI think5576VVPthink that5577IN/thatthat would5578MDwould be5579VBbe a5580DTa lot5581NNlot closer5582RBRcloser of5583INof a5584DTa question5585NNquestion ,5586,, but5587CCbut ,5588,, here5589RBhere ,5590,, it5591PPit 's5592VBZbe a5593DTa lot5594NNlot easier5595JJReasy because5596INbecause you5597PPyou 're5598VBPbe coupling5599VVGcouple that5600IN/thatthat with5601INwith work5602NNwork authorization5603NNauthorization .5604SENT. And5605CCand my5606PP$my final5607JJfinal and5608CCand critical5609JJcritical point5610NNpoint is5611VBZbe that5612IN/thatthat there5613EXthere 's5614VBZbe no5615DTno limiting5616VVGlimit principle5617NNprinciple .5618SENT. The5619DTthe theory5620NNtheory on5621INon which5622WDTwhich DACA5623NPDACA rests5624VVZrest effectively5625RBeffectively allows5626VVZallow the5627DTthe government5628NNgovernment to5629TOto create5630VVcreate a5631DTa shadow5632NNshadow INA5633NPINA for5634INfor any5635DTany category5636NNcategory of5637INof aliens5638NNSalien that5639IN/thatthat it5640PPit chooses5641VVZchoose to5642TOto make5643VVmake low-priority5644NNlow-priority targets5645NNStarget ,5646,, a5647DTa shadow5648NNshadow second-tier5649NNsecond-tier INA5650NPINA .5651SENT. And5652CCand you5653PPyou ,5654,, at5655INat the5656DTthe very5657RBvery least5658JJSleast ,5659,, need5660VVPneed to5661TOto locate5662VVlocate something5663NNsomething in5664INin the5665DTthe INA5666NPINA that5667WDTthat confers5668VVZconfer that5669DTthat kind5670NNkind of5671INof broad5672JJbroad and5673CCand unfettered5674JJunfettered discretion5675NNdiscretion .5676SENT. And5677CCand there5678EXthere is5679VBZbe simply5680RBsimply nothing5681NNnothing there5682RBthere .5683SENT. But5684CCbut ,5685,, again5686RBagain ...5687:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]5688LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Well5689UHwell ...5690:... well5691RBwell ,5692,, if5693INif ...5694:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5695LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...5696:... I5697PPI do5698VVPdo n't5699RBn't think5700VVthink you5701PPyou ...5702:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]5703LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] You5704PPyou know5705VVPknow ,5706,, the5707DTthe INA5708NPINA does5709VVZdo give5710VVgive quite5711PDTquite a5712DTa lot5713NNlot of5714INof discretion5715NNdiscretion to5716TOto administrative5717JJadministrative officers5718NNSofficer ,5719,, as5720INas you5721PPyou yourself5722PPyourself admit5723VVPadmit and5724CCand have5725VHPhave argued5726VVNargue on5727INon previous5728JJprevious occasions5729NNSoccasion and5730CCand ,5731,, indeed5732RBindeed ,5733,, in5734INin part5735NNpart here5736RBhere .5737SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5738LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right5739NPRight .5740SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]5741LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] So5742RBso are5743VBPbe you5744PPyou saying5745VVGsay that5746DTthat ...5747:... are5748VBPbe you5749PPyou saying5750VVGsay that5751IN/thatthat DACA5752NPDACA was5753VBDbe ...5754:... violated5755VVDviolate any5756DTany particular5757JJparticular provision5758NNprovision of5759INof the5760DTthe INA5761NPINA ?5762SENT? What5763WPWhat are5764VBPbe you5765PPyou saying5766VVGsay it5767PPit violated5768VVDviolate ?5769SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5770LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Sure5771NPSure .5772SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]5773LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Because5774INbecause ...5775:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5776LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] So5777INso I5778PPI 'm5779VBPbe saying5780VVGsay ...5781:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]5782LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...5783:... because5784INbecause there5785EXthere 's5786VBZbe a5787DTa big5788JJbig delegation5789NNdelegation ,5790,, right5791NNright ,5792,, that5793WDTthat says5794VVZsay you5795PPyou get5796VVget to5797TOto make5798VVmake national5799JJnational policy5800NNpolicy .5801SENT. So5802RBso what5803WPwhat did5804VVDdo DACA5805NPDACA violate5806VVviolate ?5807SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5808LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] I5809PPI 'm5810VBPbe saying5811VVGsay two5812CDtwo things5813NNSthing ,5814,, Your5815PP$your Honor5816NPHonor .5817SENT. First5818RBfirst ,5819,, I5820PPI 'm5821VBPbe saying5822VVGsay you5823PPyou do5824VVPdo n't5825RBn't really5826RBreally have5827VHhave to5828TOto address5829VVaddress this5830DTthis issue5831NNissue because5832INbecause we5833PPwe think5834VVPthink all5835DTall of5836INof the5837DTthe other5838JJother ...5839:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]5840LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] I5841PPI got5842VVDget that5843RBthat .5844SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5845LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...5846:... reasons5847NNSreason are5848VBPbe more5849JJRmore than5850INthan sufficient5851JJsufficient .5852SENT. But5853CCbut ,5854,, secondly5855RBsecondly ,5856,, we5857PPwe 're5858VBPbe not5859RBnot saying5860VVGsay that5861IN/thatthat there5862EXthere 's5863VBZbe a5864DTa specific5865JJspecific provision5866NNprovision that5867IN/thatthat it5868PPit conflicts5869VVZconflict with5870INwith .5871SENT. But5872CCbut what5873WPwhat we5874PPwe are5875VBPbe saying5876VVGsay is5877VBZbe that5878IN/thatthat when5879WRBwhen you5880PPyou adopt5881VVPadopt this5882DTthis kind5883NNkind of5884INof broad5885JJbroad and5886CCand historically5887RBhistorically unprecedented5888JJunprecedented program5889NNprogram ,5890,, you5891PPyou need5892VVPneed to5893TOto at5894INat least5895JJSleast locate5896VVlocate the5897DTthe authority5898NNauthority to5899TOto do5900VVdo so5901RBso somewhere5902RBsomewhere in5903INin the5904DTthe INA5905NPINA .5906SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]5907LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Well5908UHwell ,5909,, they5910PPthey did5911VVDdo ...5912:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5913LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] And5914CCand this5915DTthis goes5916VVZgo ...5917:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]5918LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...5919:... you5920PPyou know5921VVPknow ,5922,, they5923PPthey located5924VVDlocate the5925DTthe authority5926NNauthority in5927INin the5928DTthe INA5929NPINA 's5930POS's grant5931NNgrant of5932INof broad5933JJbroad discretion5934NNdiscretion over5935INover national5936JJnational immigration5937NNimmigration enforcement5938NNenforcement policy5939NNpolicy .5940SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]5941LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Your5942PP$your Honor5943NPHonor ,5944,, I5945PPI think5946VVPthink that5947IN/thatthat the5948DTthe most5949RBSmost that5950RBthat does5951VVZdo is5952VBZbe it5953PPit gives5954VVZgive you5955PPyou the5956DTthe authority5957NNauthority to5958TOto set5959VVset policies5960NNSpolicy and5961CCand priorities5962NNSpriority ,5963,, but5964CCbut there5965EXthere 's5966VBZbe a5967DTa big5968JJbig leap5969NNleap between5970INbetween that5971WDTthat and5972CCand saying5973VVGsay that5974IN/thatthat you5975PPyou can5976MDcan affirmatively5977RBaffirmatively facilitate5978VVfacilitate violations5979NNSviolation of5980INof the5981DTthe INA5982NPINA by5983INby hundreds5984NNShundred of5985INof thousands5986NNSthousand of5987INof individuals5988NNSindividual to5989TOto whom5990WPwhom Congress5991NPCongress has5992VHZhave repeatedly5993RBrepeatedly declined5994VVNdecline a5995DTa pathway5996NNpathway to5997TOto lawful5998JJlawful status5999NNstatus .6000SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]6001LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] What6002WPWhat about6003RBabout ...6004:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]6005LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] I6006PPI guess6007VVPguess ...6008:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6009LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Again6010NPAgain ,6011,, though6012RBthough ,6013,, I6014PPI ...6015:... I6016PPI do6017VVPdo n't6018RBn't think6019VVthink this6020DTthis is6021VBZbe an6022DTan issue6023NNissue you6024PPyou need6025VVPneed to6026TOto ultimately6027RBultimately resolve6028VVresolve because6029INbecause I6030PPI think6031VVPthink the6032DTthe other6033JJother reasons6034NNSreason we6035PPwe 've6036VHPhave given6037VVNgive for6038INfor rescinding6039VVGrescind DACA6040NPDACA are6041VBPbe more6042JJRmore than6043INthan sufficient6044JJsufficient to6045TOto justify6046VVjustify it6047PPit ,6048,, including6049VVGinclude our6050PP$our serious6051JJserious doubts6052NNSdoubt about6053INabout its6054PP$its legality6055NNlegality alone6056RBalone .6057SENT. Simply6058RBsimply as6059INas a6060DTa matter6061NNmatter of6062INof law6063NNlaw enforcement6064NNenforcement policy6065NNpolicy ,6066,, it6067PPit is6068VBZbe eminently6069RBeminently reasonable6070JJreasonable for6071INfor a6072DTa law6073NNlaw enforcement6074NNenforcement agency6075NNagency to6076TOto say6077VVsay ,6078,, I6079PPI 'm6080VBPbe not6081RBnot going6082VVGgo to6083TOto push6084VVpush this6085DTthis doubtful6086JJdoubtful authority6087NNauthority to6088TOto its6089PP$its logical6090JJlogical extreme6091NNextreme when6092WRBwhen it6093PPit does6094VVZdo three6095CDthree things6096NNSthing :6097:: It6098PPit undermines6099VVZundermine confidence6100NNconfidence in6101INin the6102DTthe rule6103NNrule of6104INof law6105NNlaw itself6106PPitself .6107SENT. It6108PPit conflicts6109VVZconflict with6110INwith the6111DTthe agency6112NNagency 's6113POS's law6114NNlaw enforcement6115NNenforcement mission6116NNmission .6117SENT. And6118CCand ,6119,, in6120INin a6121DTa case6122NNcase like6123INlike this6124DTthis ,6125,, it6126PPit creates6127VVZcreate the6128DTthe serious6129JJserious possibility6130NNpossibility of6131INof a6132DTa court-ordered6133JJcourt-ordered shutdown6134NNshutdown of6135INof the6136DTthe program6137NNprogram ,6138,, rather6139RBrather than6140INthan an6141DTan orderly6142JJorderly wind-down6143NNwind-down within6144INwithin ...6145:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6146LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Counsel6147NPCounsel ,6148,, you6149PPyou ...6150:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6151LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...6152:... the6153DTthe agency6154NNagency 's6155POS's control6156NNcontrol .6157SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6158LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...6159:... if6160INif ...6161:... if6162INif DACA6163NPDACA was6164VBDbe illegal6165JJillegal ,6166,, that6167WDTthat means6168VVZmean that6169IN/thatthat when6170WRBwhen the6171DTthe government6172NNgovernment was6173VBDbe giving6174VVGgive out6175RPout these6176DTthese benefits6177NNSbenefit it6178PPit was6179VBDbe acting6180VVGact illegally6181RBillegally ,6182,, right6183RBright ?6184SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6185LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yes6186NPYes .6187SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6188LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Now6189RBnow it6190PPit 's6191VBZbe not6192RBnot always6193RBalways the6194DTthe case6195NNcase when6196WRBwhen the6197DTthe government6198NNgovernment acts6199VVZact illegally6200RBillegally in6201INin a6202DTa way6203NNway that6204WDTthat affects6205VVZaffect other6206JJother people6207NNSpeople that6208IN/thatthat we6209PPwe go6210VVPgo back6211RBback and6212CCand untangle6213VVuntangle all6214DTall of6215INof the6216DTthe consequences6217NNSconsequence of6218INof that6219DTthat .6220SENT. Did6221VVDdo Secretary6222NPSecretary Nielsen6223NPNielsen ,6224,, when6225WRBwhen she6226PPshe was6227VBDbe considering6228VVGconsider the6229DTthe reliance6230NNreliance interests6231NNSinterest ,6232,, was6233VBDbe she6234PPshe looking6235VVGlook simply6236RBsimply to6237TOto the6238DTthe question6239NNquestion of6240INof a6241DTa wind-down6242NNwind-down ,6243,, or6244CCor was6245VBDbe she6246PPshe looking6247VVGlook more6248RBRmore generally6249RBgenerally ,6250,, for6251INfor example6252NNexample ,6253,, to6254TOto the6255DTthe application6256NNapplication of6257INof something6258NNsomething like6259INlike the6260DTthe de6261FWde facto6262FWfacto officer6263NNofficer doctrine6264NNdoctrine ...6265:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6266LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right6267NPRight .6268SENT. I6269PPI think6270VVPthink ...6271:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]6272LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...6273:... when6274WRBwhen officers6275NNSofficer acted6276VVDact illegally6277RBillegally ,6278,, but6279CCbut we6280PPwe do6281VVPdo n't6282RBn't go6283VVgo back6284RBback and6285CCand invalidate6286VVinvalidate their6287PP$their prior6288JJprior actions6289NNSaction ?6290SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6291LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] I6292PPI think6293VVPthink both6294DTboth ,6295,, Your6296PP$your Honor6297NPHonor ,6298,, both6299DTboth .6300SENT. The6301DTthe orderly6302JJorderly wind-down6303NNwind-down to6304TOto a6305DTa certain6306JJcertain extent6307NNextent takes6308VVZtake into6309INinto account6310NNaccount reliance6311NNreliance interests6312NNSinterest .6313SENT. It6314PPit does6315VVZdo n't6316RBn't fully6317RBfully account6318VVPaccount for6319INfor everything6320NNeverything .6321SENT. But6322CCbut the6323DTthe whole6324JJwhole idea6325NNidea was6326VBDbe that6327IN/thatthat you6328PPyou 're6329VBPbe giving6330VVGgive people6331NNSpeople an6332DTan opportunity6333NNopportunity to6334TOto ...6335:... to6336TOto ...6337:... to6338TOto order6339VVorder their6340PP$their lives6341NNSlife in6342INin ...6343:... in6344INin ...6345:... in6346INin a6347DTa time6348NNtime period6349NNperiod to6350TOto allow6351VVallow them6352PPthem to6353TOto do6354VVdo that6355DTthat .6356SENT. But6357CCbut she6358PPshe also6359RBalso specifically6360RBspecifically states6361NNSstate in6362INin the6363DTthe memorandum6364NNmemorandum that6365IN/thatthat ,6366,, in6367INin addition6368NNaddition ,6369,, the6370DTthe notion6371NNnotion of6372INof ad6373FWad hoc6374FWhoc deferred6375JJdeferred action6376NNaction will6377MDwill be6378VBbe able6379JJable to6380TOto take6381VVtake care6382NNcare of6383INof reliance6384NNreliance interests6385NNSinterest in6386INin truly6387RBtruly extraordinary6388JJextraordinary circumstances6389NNScircumstance ,6390,, the6391DTthe way6392NNway that6393IN/thatthat it6394PPit has6395VHZhave been6396VBNbe used6397VVNuse sporadically6398RBsporadically in6399INin the6400DTthe past6401NNpast to6402TOto address6403VVaddress those6404DTthose types6405NNStype of6406INof scenarios6407NNSscenario .6408SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]6409LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] So6410RBso now6411RBnow the6412DTthe basic6413JJbasic ...6414:... the6415DTthe basic6416JJbasic hornbook6417NNhornbook rule6418NNrule ...6419:... we6420PPwe have6421VHPhave three6422CDthree hornbook6423NNhornbook rules6424NNSrule in6425INin this6426DTthis case6427NNcase ,6428,, is6429VBZbe ...6430:... is6431VBZbe ...6432:... was6433VBDbe mentioned6434VVNmention ,6435,, Chenery6436NPChenery :6437:: "6438``" It6439PPit is6440VBZbe a6441DTa foundational6442JJfoundational principle6443NNprinciple of6444INof administrative6445JJadministrative law6446NNlaw that6447IN/thatthat a6448DTa court6449NNcourt may6450MDmay uphold6451VVuphold agency6452NNagency action6453NNaction only6454RBonly on6455INon the6456DTthe grounds6457NNSground that6458IN/thatthat the6459DTthe agency6460NNagency invoked6461VVDinvoke when6462WRBwhen it6463PPit took6464VVDtake the6465DTthe action6466NNaction .6467SENT. "6468''" [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6469LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Right6470NPRight .6471SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]6472LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] In6473INin which6474WDTwhich case6475NNcase we6476PPwe look6477VVPlook to6478TOto Ms6479NNMs .6480SENT. Duke6481NPDuke 's6482POS's memo6483NNmemo ,6484,, not6485RBnot to6486TOto Ms6487NNMs .6488SENT. Nielsen's6489NPNielsen's .6490SENT. Is6491VBZbe n't6492RBn't that6493IN/thatthat when6494WRBwhen it6495PPit took6496VVDtake the6497DTthe action6498NNaction ?6499SENT? And6500CCand ,6501,, if6502INif so6503RBso ...6504:... I6505PPI want6506VVPwant to6507TOto hear6508VVhear you6509PPyou say6510VVsay no6511UHno ,6512,, it6513PPit is6514VBZbe n't6515RBn't so6516RBso ...6517:... but6518RBbut ...6519:... but6520CCbut ,6521,, if6522INif so6523RBso ,6524,, why6525WRBwhy do6526VVPdo n't6527RBn't we6528PPwe just6529RBjust affirm6530VVPaffirm the6531DTthe district6532NNdistrict court6533NNcourt ,6534,, which6535WDTwhich sends6536VVZsend it6537PPit back6538RBback ?6539SENT? And6540CCand if6541INif you6542PPyou have6543VHPhave all6544PDTall these6545DTthese reasons6546NNSreason and6547CCand you6548PPyou really6549RBreally want6550VVPwant to6551TOto consider6552VVconsider the6553DTthe reliance6554NNreliance and6555CCand all6556PDTall those6557DTthose things6558NNSthing should6559MDshould be6560VBbe considered6561VVNconsider carefully6562RBcarefully ,6563,, you6564PPyou can6565MDcan do6566VVdo it6567PPit .6568SENT. So6569RBso ...6570:... so6571RBso what6572WPwhat 's6573VBZbe wrong6574JJwrong ?6575SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6576LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] For6577INfor two6578CDtwo related6579VVNrelate ...6580:... [JUSTICE BREYER]6581LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] With6582INwith very6583RBvery ...6584:... yeah6585RByeah ,6586,, go6587VVgo ahead6588RBahead .6589SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6590LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] For6591INfor two6592CDtwo related6593JJrelated reasons6594NNSreason ,6595,, Your6596PP$your Honor6597NPHonor .6598SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]6599LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yeah6600NPYeah .6601SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6602LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] First6603NPFirst ,6604,, sending6605VVGsend it6606PPit back6607RBback would6608MDwould make6609VVmake no6610DTno sense6611NNsense because6612INbecause the6613DTthe agency6614NNagency has6615VHZhave already6616RBalready acted6617VVNact .6618SENT. Secretary6619NPSecretary Nielsen6620NPNielsen has6621VHZhave already6622RBalready ratified6623VVNratify Secretary6624NPSecretary Duke6625NPDuke 's6626POS's decision6627NNdecision for6628INfor the6629DTthe reasons6630NNSreason set6631VVNset forth6632RBforth in6633INin her6634PP$her memorandum6635NNmemorandum .6636SENT. It6637PPit 's6638VBZbe not6639RBnot a6640DTa post6641NNpost hoc6642FWhoc rationalization6643NNrationalization .6644SENT. It6645PPit 's6646VBZbe the6647DTthe position6648NNposition of6649INof the6650DTthe agency6651NNagency set6652VVDset forth6653RBforth by6654INby the6655DTthe agency6656NNagency itself6657PPitself .6658SENT. And6659CCand ,6660,, secondly6661RBsecondly ,6662,, there6663EXthere is6664VBZbe no6665DTno reason6666NNreason why6667WRBwhy Secretary6668NPSecretary Nielsen6669NPNielsen should6670MDshould have6671VHhave had6672VHNhave to6673TOto reinstate6674VVreinstate DACA6675NPDACA and6676CCand then6677RBthen rescind6678VVrescind it6679PPit again6680RBagain .6681SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]6682LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Not6683RBnot reinstate6684VVreinstate it6685PPit .6686SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6687LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Well6688UHWell ,6689,, but6690CCbut ...6691:... but6692RBbut ...6693:... [JUSTICE BREYER]6694LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] What6695WPWhat you6696PPyou do6697VVPdo is6698VBZbe ,6699,, there6700EXthere are6701VBPbe 506702CD@card@ cases6703NNScase on6704INon this6705DTthis ,6706,, if6707INif it6708PPit 's6709VBZbe important6710JJimportant ,6711,, what6712WPwhat you6713PPyou do6714VVPdo is6715VBZbe you6716PPyou say6717VVPsay it6718PPit is6719VBZbe good6720JJgood reason6721NNreason for6722INfor holding6723VVGhold the6724DTthe status6725FWstatus quo6726FWquo until6727INuntil we6728PPwe can6729MDcan go6730VVgo back6731RBback ,6732,, and6733CCand courts6734NNScourt have6735VHPhave affirmed6736VVNaffirm that6737IN/thatthat ,6738,, we6739PPwe hold6740VVPhold the6741DTthe status6742FWstatus quo6743FWquo ,6744,, and6745CCand we6746PPwe go6747VVPgo back6748RBback now6749RBnow and6750CCand we6751PPwe look6752VVPlook if6753INif there6754EXthere are6755VBPbe reasons6756NNSreason beyond6757INbeyond the6758DTthe contemporaneous6759JJcontemporaneous reason6760NNreason ,6761,, which6762WDTwhich is6763VBZbe the6764DTthe Duke6765NPDuke memo6766NNmemo .6767SENT. [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6768LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Well6769UHWell ,6770,, that6771WDTthat 's6772VBZbe ...6773:... [JUSTICE BREYER]6774LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And6775CCand we6776PPwe see6777VVPsee if6778INif there6779EXthere will6780MDwill ...6781:... [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6782LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] ...6783:... that6784WDTthat 's6785VBZbe precisely6786RBprecisely what6787WPwhat Secretary6788NPSecretary Nielsen6789NPNielsen 's6790POS's memo6791NNmemo did6792VVDdo .6793SENT. It6794PPit did6795VVDdo two6796CDtwo things6797NNSthing .6798SENT. First6799RBfirst ,6800,, it6801PPit explained6802VVDexplain the6803DTthe basis6804NNbasis for6805INfor Secretary6806NPSecretary Nielsen6807NPNielsen ...6808:... Secretary6809NPSecretary Duke6810NPDuke 's6811POS's decision6812NNdecision ,6813,, but6814CCbut ,6815,, secondly6816RBsecondly ,6817,, it6818PPit set6819VVDset forth6820RBforth her6821PP$her own6822JJown independent6823JJindependent judgment6824NNjudgment .6825SENT. And6826CCand if6827INif I6828PPI could6829MDcould point6830VVpoint you6831PPyou to6832TOto ...6833:... [JUSTICE BREYER]6834LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] You6835PPyou mean6836VVPmean we6837PPwe have6838VHPhave all6839PDTall these6840DTthese 1006841CD@card@ and6842CCand 3506843CD@card@ briefs6844NNSbrief with6845INwith all6846PDTall these6847DTthese different6848JJdifferent reasons6849NNSreason and6850CCand she6851PPshe had6852VHDhave that6853DTthat in6854INin front6855NNfront of6856INof her6857PPher ?6858SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]6859LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Your6860PP$your Honor6861NPHonor ,6862,, that6863WDTthat may6864MDmay go6865VVgo to6866TOto whether6867INwhether you6868PPyou think6869VVPthink her6870PP$her memo6871NNmemo is6872VBZbe sufficient6873JJsufficient ,6874,, but6875CCbut it6876PPit does6877VVZdo n't6878RBn't go6879VVgo to6880TOto whether6881INwhether you6882PPyou think6883VVPthink her6884PP$her memo6885NNmemo is6886VBZbe an6887DTan operative6888JJoperative document6889NNdocument with6890INwith this6891DTthis ...6892:... in6893INin this6894DTthis litigation6895NNlitigation .6896SENT. I6897PPI 'd6898MDwould like6899VVlike to6900TOto point6901VVpoint you6902PPyou to6903TOto two6904CDtwo places6905NNSplace in6906INin her6907PP$her memorandum6908NNmemorandum .6909SENT. First6910RBfirst ,6911,, page6912NNpage 121A6913NN121A of6914INof the6915DTthe Regents6916NPRegents Petitioners6917NNSpetitioner '6918POS' appendix6919NNappendix .6920SENT. This6921DTthis is6922VBZbe the6923DTthe second6924JJsecond page6925NNpage of6926INof her6927PP$her memorandum6928NNmemorandum :6929:: The6930DTthe explanation6931NNexplanation reflects6932VVZreflect ,6933,, the6934DTthe first6935JJfirst thing6936NNthing ,6937,, my6938PP$my understanding6939NNunderstanding of6940INof the6941DTthe Duke6942NPDuke Memorandum6943NPMemorandum ,6944,, and6945CCand ,6946,, second6947JJsecond thing6948NNthing ,6949,, why6950WRBwhy the6951DTthe decision6952NNdecision to6953TOto rescind6954VVrescind the6955DTthe DACA6956NPDACA policy6957NNpolicy was6958VBDbe and6959CCand remains6960VVZremain sound6961NNsound .6962SENT. If6963INif you6964PPyou look6965VVPlook at6966INat the6967DTthe end6968NNend of6969INof her6970PP$her memorandum6971NNmemorandum ,6972,, she6973PPshe states6974VVZstate in6975INin the6976DTthe very6977RBvery last6978JJlast sentence6979NNsentence :6980:: For6981INfor the6982DTthe reasons6983NNSreason in6984INin ...6985:... for6986INfor these6987DTthese reasons6988NNSreason in6989INin setting6990VVGset ...6991:... in6992INin setting6993VVGset DHS6994NPDHS enforcement6995NNenforcement policies6996NNSpolicy and6997CCand priorities6998NNSpriority ,6999,, I7000PPI concur7001VVPconcur with7002INwith and7003CCand decline7004VVdecline to7005TOto disturb7006VVdisturb Acting7007NPActing Secretary7008NPSecretary Duke7009NPDuke 's7010POS's decisions7011NNSdecision to7012TOto rescind7013VVrescind the7014DTthe DACA7015NPDACA policy7016NNpolicy .7017SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]7018LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Can7019MDcan I7020PPI pick7021VVpick up7022RPup on7023INon Justice7024NPJustice Kagan7025NPKagan 's7026POS's question7027NNquestion earlier7028RBRearlier ?7029SENT? Does7030VVZdo the7031DTthe Nielsen7032NPNielsen memo7033NNmemo ever7034RBever say7035VVPsay ,7036,, even7037RBeven if7038INif DACA7039NPDACA was7040VBDbe lawful7041JJlawful ,7042,, I7043PPI would7044MDwould still7045RBstill exercise7046VVexercise my7047PP$my policy7048NNpolicy discretion7049NNdiscretion to7050TOto discontinue7051VVdiscontinue ?7052SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]7053LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Yes7054NPYes ,7055,, Your7056PP$your Honor7057NPHonor .7058SENT. So7059RBso ,7060,, if7061INif you7062PPyou look7063VVPlook at7064INat the7065DTthe memo7066NNmemo ...7067:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]7068LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] What7069WPWhat ...7070:... what7071WPwhat ...7072:... what7073WPwhat sentence7074NNsentence are7075VBPbe you7076PPyou looking7077VVGlook at7078INat ?7079SENT? [GENERAL FRANCISCO]7080LOC[GENERAL FRANCISCO] Okay7081NPOkay .7082SENT. I7083PPI 'm7084VBPbe looking7085VVGlook at7086INat two7087CDtwo sentences7088NNSsentence .7089SENT. Page7090NPPage 123A7091NP123A ...7092:... this7093DTthis is7094VBZbe after7095INafter she7096PPshe says7097VVZsay it7098PPit 's7099VBZbe illegal7100JJillegal ...7101:... page7102NNpage 123A7103NP123A .7104SENT. Second7105RBsecond ,7106,, regardless7107RBregardless of7108INof whether7109INwhether the7110DTthe DACA7111NPDACA policy7112NNpolicy is7113VBZbe ultimately7114RBultimately illegal7115JJillegal ,7116,, it7117PPit was7118VBDbe appropriately7119RBappropriately rescinded7120VVNrescind by7121INby the7122DTthe DHS7123NNSDHS because7124INbecause there7125EXthere are7126VBPbe at7127INat a7128DTa minimum7129JJminimum serious7130JJserious doubts7131NNSdoubt about7132INabout its7133PP$its legality7134NNlegality .7135SENT. May7136MDmay I7137PPI make7138VVmake one7139CDone more7140JJRmore sentence7141NNsentence ?7142SENT? And7143CCand then7144RBthen ,7145,, third7146JJthird ,7147,, if7148INif you7149PPyou look7150VVPlook further7151RBRfurther down7152RBdown the7153DTthe page7154NNpage ,7155,, it7156PPit says7157VVZsay :7158:: Regardless7159RBregardless of7160INof whether7161INwhether these7162DTthese concerns7163NNSconcern about7164INabout the7165DTthe DACA7166NPDACA policy7167NNpolicy render7168VVrender it7169PPit illegal7170JJillegal or7171CCor legally7172RBlegally questionable7173JJquestionable ,7174,, there7175EXthere are7176VBPbe sound7177JJsound reasons7178NNSreason of7179INof enforcement7180NNenforcement policy7181NNpolicy to7182TOto rescind7183VVrescind the7184DTthe DACA7185NPDACA policy7186NNpolicy .7187SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]7188LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank7189VVthank you7190PPyou ,7191,, counsel7192NNcounsel .7193SENT. Mr7194NPMr .7195SENT. Olson7196NPOlson .7197SENT.