[MR. SHANMUGAM]20LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Thank21VVthank you22PPyou ,23,, Mr24NPMr .25SENT. Chief26NPChief Justice27NPJustice ,28,, and29CCand may30MDmay it31PPit please32VVplease the33DTthe Court34NPCourt :35:: In36INin the37DTthe America38NPAmerica Invents39VVZinvent Act40NPAct ,41,, Congress42NPCongress transformed43VVDtransform the44DTthe nation45NNnation 's46POS's patent47NNpatent laws48NNSlaw .49SENT. As50INas part51NNpart of52INof its53PP$its shift54NNshift from55INfrom a56DTa first-to-invent57NNfirst-to-invent to58TOto a59DTa first-to-file60JJfirst-to-file system61NNsystem ,62,, Congress63NPCongress revised64VVDrevise the65DTthe definition66NNdefinition of67INof "68``" prior69JJprior art70NNart "71''" and72CCand clarified73VVDclarify the74DTthe proper75JJproper understanding76NNunderstanding of77INof the78DTthe phrase79NNphrase "80''" on81INon sale82NNsale .83SENT. "84``" The85DTthe on-sale86JJon-sale bar87NNbar ,88,, like89INlike the90DTthe other91JJother bars92NNSbar in93INin the94DTthe definition95NNdefinition ,96,, reaches97VVZreach only98RBonly a99DTa disclosure100NNdisclosure that101WDTthat makes102VVZmake the103DTthe claimed104VVNclaim invention105NNinvention available106JJavailable to107TOto the108DTthe public109NNpublic .110SENT. That111DTthat interpretation112NNinterpretation is113VBZbe consistent114JJconsistent with115INwith the116DTthe plain117JJplain text118NNtext of119INof the120DTthe definition121NNdefinition and122CCand its123PP$its legislative124JJlegislative history125NNhistory .126SENT. It127PPit 's128VBZbe consistent129JJconsistent with130INwith the131DTthe predominant132JJpredominant objective133NNobjective of134INof the135DTthe on-sale136JJon-sale bar137NNbar as138INas repeatedly139RBrepeatedly articulated140VVNarticulate by141INby this142DTthis Court143NPCourt ;144:; namely145RBnamely ,146,, to147TOto preserve148VVpreserve the149DTthe public150NNpublic 's151POS's access152NNaccess to153TOto inventions154NNSinvention that155WDTthat have156VHPhave entered157VVNenter the158DTthe public159JJpublic domain160NNdomain .161SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]162LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well163UHwell ,164,, it165PPit might166MDmight not167RBnot be168VBbe consistent169JJconsistent with170INwith the171DTthe actual172JJactual meaning173NNmeaning of174INof the175DTthe word176NNword "177``" sale178NNsale ,179,, "180''" though181RBthough ,182,, right183RBright ?184SENT? [MR. SHANMUGAM]185LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] The186DTthe critical187JJcritical phrase188NNphrase ...189:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]190LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] If191INif you192PPyou 're193VBPbe having194VHGhave ...195:... if196INif you197PPyou 're198VBPbe ...199:... if200INif something201NNsomething 's202VBZbe on203INon sale204NNsale ,205,, it206PPit does207VVZdo n't208RBn't have209VHhave to210TOto be211VBbe on212INon sale213NNsale to214TOto everybody215NNeverybody .216SENT. It217PPit could218MDcould be219VBbe just220RBjust I221PPI 'm222VBPbe going223VVGgo to224TOto sell225VVsell something226NNsomething to227TOto you228PPyou .229SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]230LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Well231UHWell ,232,, the233DTthe critical234JJcritical phrase235NNphrase ,236,, Mr237NPMr .238SENT. Chief239NPChief Justice240NPJustice ,241,, is242VBZbe not243RBnot "244``" sale245NNsale .246SENT. "247``" It248PPit is249VBZbe "250``" on251INon sale252NNsale .253SENT. "254``" And255CCand I256PPI do257VVPdo think258VVthink that259IN/thatthat the260DTthe more261RBRmore natural262JJnatural understanding263NNunderstanding of264INof "265``" on266INon sale267NNsale "268``" is269VBZbe that270IN/thatthat something271NNsomething has272VHZhave been273VBNbe made274VVNmake available275JJavailable for276INfor purchase277NNpurchase by278INby the279DTthe public280NNpublic .281SENT. And282CCand so283RBso ,284,, for285INfor instance286NNinstance ,287,, if288INif after289INafter this290DTthis argument291NNargument in292INin the293DTthe lawyers294NNSlawyer lounge295VVPlounge I296PPI turn297VVturn to298TOto my299PP$my friend300NNfriend ,301,, Mr302NPMr .303SENT. Jay304NPJay ,305,, and306CCand I307PPI say308VVPsay ,309,, I310PPI see311VVPsee that312IN/thatthat you313PPyou did314VVDdo n't315RBn't bring316VVbring a317DTa coat318NNcoat today319NNtoday ,320,, I321PPI 'll322MDwill sell323VVsell you324PPyou my325PP$my coat326NNcoat for327INfor $328$$ 5329CD5 ,330,, I331PPI 'm332VBPbe not333RBnot sure334JJsure that335IN/thatthat that336WDTthat would337MDwould be338VBbe putting339VVGput my340PP$my coat341NNcoat on342INon sale343NNsale in344INin the345DTthe same346JJsame way347NNway that348IN/thatthat it349PPit would350MDwould be351VBbe if352INif I353PPI turned354VVDturn around355RParound to356TOto the357DTthe audience358NNaudience and359CCand said360VVDsay I361PPI 'll362MDwill sell363VVsell this364DTthis coat365NNcoat to366TOto the367DTthe highest368JJShigh bidder369NNbidder .370SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]371LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Why372WRBwhy not373RBnot ?374SENT? I375PPI do376VVPdo n't377RBn't ...378:... and379CCand if380INif it381PPit 's382VBZbe sold383VVNsell ,384,, it385PPit 's386VBZbe pretty387RBpretty hard388JJhard to389TOto say390VVsay something391NNsomething that392WDTthat has393VHZhave been394VBNbe sold395VVNsell was396VBDbe not397RBnot on398INon sale399NNsale .400SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]401LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I402PPI think403VVPthink that404IN/thatthat the405DTthe concept406NNconcept of407INof "408``" on409INon sale410NNsale ,411,, "412''" Justice413NPJustice Kavanaugh414NPKavanaugh ,415,, conveys416VVZconvey some417DTsome sense418NNsense of419INof broader420JJRbroad availability421NNavailability or422CCor ,423,, at424INat a425DTa minimum426NNminimum ,427,, that428IN/thatthat there429EXthere 's430VBZbe some431DTsome ambiguity432NNambiguity about433INabout that434DTthat .435SENT. That436DTthat is437VBZbe to438TOto say439VVsay ,440,, I441PPI think442VVPthink I443PPI 'm444VBPbe willing445JJwilling to446TOto recognize447VVrecognize that448IN/thatthat perhaps449RBperhaps you450PPyou could451MDcould make452VVmake the453DTthe argument454NNargument that455IN/thatthat even456RBeven offering457VVGoffer something458NNsomething privately459RBprivately to460TOto one461CDone person462NNperson could463MDcould be464VBbe said465VVNsay to466TOto be467VBbe putting468VVGput something469NNsomething on470INon sale471NNsale .472SENT. Our473PP$our view474NNview as475INas a476DTa textual477JJtextual matter478NNmatter is479VBZbe that480IN/thatthat to481TOto the482DTthe extent483NNextent that484IN/thatthat there485EXthere 's486VBZbe any487DTany ambiguity488NNambiguity ...489:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]490LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Is491VBZbe n't492RBn't it493PPit always494RBalways the495DTthe case496NNcase that497IN/thatthat if498INif you499PPyou offer500VVPoffer it501PPit to502TOto even503RBeven one504CDone person505NNperson or506CCor to507TOto a508DTa small509JJsmall group510NNgroup of511INof people512NNSpeople ,513,, it514PPit 's515VBZbe on516INon sale517NNsale ?518SENT? [MR. SHANMUGAM]519LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I520PPI think521VVPthink that522IN/thatthat I523PPI would524MDwould ...525:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]526LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] I527PPI ...528:... I529PPI guess530VVPguess I531PPI 'm532VBPbe not533RBnot understanding534VVGunderstand that535DTthat .536SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]537LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I538PPI think539VVPthink I540PPI would541MDwould say542VVsay ,543,, Justice544NPJustice Kavanaugh545NPKavanaugh ,546,, that547DTthat something548NNsomething can549MDcan be550VBbe on551INon sale552NNsale regardless553RBregardless of554INof how555WRBhow widely556RBwidely it557PPit is558VBZbe ,559,, in560INin fact561NNfact ,562,, sold563VVDsell .564SENT. So565RBso ,566,, for567INfor instance568NNinstance ,569,, if570INif you571PPyou put572VVDput something573NNsomething in574INin the575DTthe shop576NNshop window577NNwindow and578CCand no579DTno one580CDone ,581,, in582INin fact583NNfact ,584,, wants585VVZwant to586TOto buy587VVbuy it588PPit and589CCand no590DTno one591CDone ,592,, in593INin fact594NNfact ,595,, buys596VVZbuy it597PPit ,598,, it599PPit can600MDcan still601RBstill be602VBbe on603INon sale604NNsale .605SENT. But606CCbut ,607,, again608RBagain ,609,, to610TOto the611DTthe extent612NNextent that613IN/thatthat there614EXthere 's615VBZbe any616DTany doubt617NNdoubt about618INabout the619DTthe phrase620NNphrase "621''" on622INon sale623NNsale "624''" in625INin vacuo626NNvacuo ,627,, I628PPI think629VVPthink that630IN/thatthat that631DTthat doubt632NNdoubt probably633RBprobably was634VBDbe eliminated635VVNeliminate before636INbefore the637DTthe AIA638NPAIA by639INby the640DTthe surrounding641VVGsurround phrases642NNSphrase ,643,, all644DTall of645INof which646WDTwhich ,647,, by648INby Respondents649NNSrespondent '650POS' recognition651NNrecognition ,652,, convey653VVPconvey some654DTsome notion655NNnotion of656INof public657JJpublic availability658NNavailability .659SENT. And660CCand then661RBthen any662DTany lingering663VVGlinger doubt664NNdoubt was665VBDbe completely666RBcompletely removed667VVNremove by668INby the669DTthe inclusion670NNinclusion of671INof the672DTthe catch-all673NNcatch-all phrase674NNphrase in675INin the676DTthe AIA677NPAIA .678SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]679LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] You680PPyou said681VVDsay that682IN/thatthat the683DTthe opinions684NNSopinion of685INof this686DTthis Court687NPCourt support688VVsupport you689PPyou ,690,, but691CCbut ,692,, of693INof course694NNcourse ,695,, you696PPyou know697VVPknow perfectly698RBperfectly well699RBwell is700VBZbe you701PPyou have702VHPhave ...703:... we704PPwe only705RBonly have706VHPhave Justice707NPJustice Story708NPStory ,709,, Learned710NPLearned Hand711NPHand ,712,, and713CCand I714PPI guess715VVPguess various716JJvarious others717NNSother ,718,, maybe719RBmaybe John720NPJohn Marshall721NPMarshall for722INfor all723DTall I724PPI know725VVPknow ,726,, who727WPwho ...728:... who729WPwho ...730:... who731WPwho said732VVDsay that733IN/thatthat that734DTthat is735VBZbe n't736RBn't the737DTthe sole738JJsole purpose739NNpurpose ,740,, that741IN/thatthat the742DTthe purpose743NNpurpose of744INof this745DTthis on-sale746JJon-sale rule747NNrule including748VVGinclude private749JJprivate sales750NNSsale is751VBZbe to752TOto prevent753VVprevent people754NNSpeople from755INfrom benefiting756VVGbenefit from757INfrom their758PP$their invention759NNinvention prior760RBprior to761TOto and762CCand beyond763INbeyond the764DTthe 20765CD@card@ years766NNSyear that767IN/thatthat they768PPthey 're769VBPbe allowed770VVNallow .771SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]772LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Justice773NPJustice ...774:... [JUSTICE BREYER]775LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And776CCand ...777:... and778CCand that779WDTthat 's780VBZbe ...781:... so782RBso I783PPI read784VVPread that785IN/thatthat ,786,, I787PPI had788VHDhave my789PP$my clerk790NNclerk look791VVlook it792PPit up793RPup ,794,, seems795VVZseem right796RBright .797SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]798LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Justice799NPJustice Breyer800NPBreyer ,801,, Respondents802NNSrespondent '803POS' whole804JJwhole argument805NNargument before806INbefore this807DTthis Court808NPCourt ,809,, I810PPI would811MDwould respectfully812RBrespectfully submit813VVsubmit ,814,, is815VBZbe really816RBreally a817DTa junior818JJjunior varsity819NNvarsity version820NNversion of821INof congressional822JJcongressional ratification823NNratification .824SENT. No825DTno fewer826JJRfew than827INthan six828CDsix times829NNStime in830INin their831PP$their brief832NNbrief they833PPthey refer834VVPrefer to835TOto the836DTthe two837CDtwo centuries838NNScentury of839INof precedent840NNprecedent .841SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]842LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Uh-huh843NPUh-huh .844SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]845LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I846PPI would847MDwould respectfully848RBrespectfully vigorously849RBvigorously disagree850VVdisagree with851INwith that852DTthat ,853,, particularly854RBparticularly with855INwith regard856NNregard to857TOto this858DTthis Court859NPCourt 's860POS's decisions861NNSdecision .862SENT. And863CCand let864VVlet me865PPme get866VVget to867TOto Judge868NPJudge Hand869NPHand ,870,, but871CCbut let872VVlet me873PPme start874VVstart with875INwith this876DTthis Court877NPCourt 's878POS's decisions879NNSdecision ,880,, starting881VVGstart with882INwith Justice883NPJustice Story884NPStory 's885POS's opinion886NNopinion in887INin Pennock888NPPennock .889SENT. This890DTthis Court891NPCourt has892VHZhave consistently893RBconsistently articulated894VVNarticulate the895DTthe predominant896JJpredominant purpose897NNpurpose of898INof the899DTthe on-sale900JJon-sale bar901NNbar as902INas preserving903VVGpreserve the904DTthe public905NNpublic 's906POS's access907NNaccess to908TOto inventions909NNSinvention that910WDTthat have911VHPhave entered912VVNenter the913DTthe public914JJpublic domain915NNdomain .916SENT. Indeed917RBindeed ,918,, if919INif you920PPyou go921VVPgo back922RBback to923TOto Pennock924NPPennock ,925,, Justice926NPJustice Story927NPStory ,928,, at929INat a930DTa time931NNtime when932WRBwhen the933DTthe on-sale934JJon-sale bar935NNbar was936VBDbe not937RBnot yet938RByet codified939VVNcodify in940INin the941DTthe statute942NNstatute ,943,, articulated944VVDarticulate the945DTthe purpose946NNpurpose in947INin precisely948RBprecisely that949DTthat term950NNterm both951CCboth with952INwith regard953NNregard to954TOto the955DTthe public956JJpublic use957NNuse bar958NNbar and959CCand with960INwith regard961NNregard to962TOto the963DTthe on-sale964JJon-sale bar965NNbar .966SENT. He967PPhe said968VVDsay ,969,, if970INif the971DTthe inventor972NNinventor shall973MDshall put974VVput the975DTthe invention976NNinvention into977INinto public978JJpublic use979NNuse or980CCor sell981VVsell it982PPit for983INfor public984JJpublic use985NNuse before986INbefore he987PPhe applies988VVZapply for989INfor a990DTa patent991NNpatent ,992,, this993DTthis shall994MDshall furnish995VVfurnish another996DTanother bar997NNbar to998TOto his999PP$his claim1000NNclaim .1001SENT. And1002CCand all1003PDTall the1004DTthe way1005NNway through1006INthrough to1007TOto this1008DTthis Court1009NPCourt 's1010POS's decision1011NNdecision in1012INin Pfaff1013NPPfaff ,1014,, this1015DTthis Court1016NPCourt has1017VHZhave referred1018VVNrefer to1019TOto "1020``" the1021DTthe reluctance1022NNreluctance to1023TOto allow1024VVallow an1025DTan inventor1026NNinventor to1027TOto remove1028VVremove existing1029JJexisting knowledge1030NNknowledge from1031INfrom public1032JJpublic use1033NNuse "1034''" and1035CCand has1036VHZhave said1037VVNsay that1038IN/thatthat that1039DTthat purpose1040NNpurpose undergirds1041VVZundergird the1042DTthe on-sale1043JJon-sale bar1044NNbar .1045SENT. And1046CCand I1047PPI ...1048:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]1049LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Does1050VVZdo n't1051RBn't commercial1052JJcommercial exploit1053NNexploit ...1054:... exploitation1055NNexploitation also1056RBalso undergird1057VVundergird the1058DTthe bar1059NNbar ?1060SENT? [MR. SHANMUGAM]1061LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I1062PPI do1063VVPdo n't1064RBn't think1065VVthink we1066PPwe would1067MDwould dispute1068VVdispute that1069IN/thatthat that1070DTthat is1071VBZbe one1072CDone way1073NNway of1074INof characterizing1075VVGcharacterize the1076DTthe underlying1077VVGunderlie purpose1078NNpurpose ,1079,, and1080CCand that1081DTthat is1082VBZbe what1083WPwhat Judge1084NPJudge Hand1085NPHand said1086VVDsay in1087INin the1088DTthe Metallizing1089VVGmetallize opinion1090NNopinion .1091SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1092LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And1093CCand ,1094,, of1095INof course1096NNcourse ,1097,, that1098WDTthat can1099MDcan all1100RBall be1101VBbe secret1102JJsecret .1103SENT. It1104PPit 's1105VBZbe not1106RBnot very1107RBvery hard1108JJhard .1109SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]1110LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] But1111CCbut I1112PPI do1113VVPdo n't1114RBn't think1115VVthink ...1116:... [JUSTICE BREYER]1117LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] You1118PPyou have1119VHPhave an1120DTan invention1121NNinvention ...1122:... [MR. SHANMUGAM]1123LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I1124PPI think1125VVPthink to1126TOto ...1127:... [JUSTICE BREYER]1128LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...1129:... that1130WDTthat is1131VBZbe practiced1132VVNpractice ...1133:... well1134UHwell ,1135,, I1136PPI 'm1137VBPbe looking1138VVGlook at1139INat the1140DTthe word1141NNword "1142``" practice1143NNpractice .1144SENT. "1145``" And1146CCand it1147PPit 's1148VBZbe not1149RBnot just1150RBjust one1151CDone word1152NNword .1153SENT. It1154PPit 's1155VBZbe also1156RBalso practicing1157VVGpractice the1158DTthe invention1159NNinvention .1160SENT. And1161CCand you1162PPyou can1163MDcan practice1164VVpractice the1165DTthe invention1166NNinvention in1167INin such1168PDTsuch a1169DTa way1170NNway that1171IN/thatthat the1172DTthe user1173NNuser of1174INof the1175DTthe invention1176NNinvention can1177MDcan 't1178RB't find1179VVfind out1180RPout what1181WPwhat the1182DTthe invention1183NNinvention is1184VBZbe .1185SENT. That1186DTthat 's1187VBZbe not1188RBnot uncommon1189JJuncommon .1190SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]1191LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Let1192VVDlet me1193PPme say1194VVPsay ...1195:... [JUSTICE BREYER]1196LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And1197CCand ,1198,, therefore1199RBtherefore ,1200,, we1201PPwe have1202VHPhave two1203CDtwo that1204WDTthat do1205VVPdo not1206RBnot involve1207VVinvolve the1208DTthe public1209JJpublic awareness1210NNawareness of1211INof the1212DTthe invention1213NNinvention itself1214PPitself or1215CCor how1216WRBhow it1217PPit is1218VBZbe produced1219VVNproduce .1220SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]1221LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] So1222RBso let1223VVDlet me1224PPme say1225VVPsay just1226RBjust one1227CDone last1228JJlast thing1229NNthing about1230INabout this1231DTthis Court1232NPCourt 's1233POS's decisions1234NNSdecision and1235CCand then1236RBthen address1237VVaddress that1238DTthat concern1239NNconcern directly1240RBdirectly .1241SENT. I1242PPI think1243VVPthink that1244IN/thatthat if1245INif you1246PPyou were1247VBDbe to1248TOto adopt1249VVadopt our1250PP$our interpretation1251NNinterpretation under1252INunder which1253WDTwhich public1254JJpublic availability1255NNavailability is1256VBZbe required1257VVNrequire to1258TOto trigger1259VVtrigger the1260DTthe on-sale1261JJon-sale bar1262NNbar ,1263,, just1264RBjust like1265INlike all1266DTall of1267INof the1268DTthe other1269JJother bars1270NNSbar ,1271,, you1272PPyou would1273MDwould not1274RBnot have1275VHhave to1276TOto discard1277VVdiscard any1278DTany of1279INof the1280DTthe reasoning1281NNreasoning of1282INof this1283DTthis Court1284NPCourt 's1285POS's cases1286NNScase and1287CCand you1288PPyou would1289MDwould n't1290RBn't have1291VHhave to1292TOto change1293VVchange any1294DTany of1295INof the1296DTthe outcomes1297NNSoutcome of1298INof this1299DTthis Court1300NPCourt 's1301POS's cases1302NNScase .1303SENT. We1304PPwe believe1305VVPbelieve that1306IN/thatthat all1307DTall of1308INof this1309DTthis Court1310NPCourt 's1311POS's cases1312NNScase on1313INon their1314PP$their facts1315NNSfact would1316MDwould come1317VVcome out1318RPout the1319DTthe same1320JJsame way1321NNway .1322SENT. Now1323RBnow ,1324,, with1325INwith regard1326NNregard to1327TOto this1328DTthis alternative1329JJalternative formulation1330NNformulation of1331INof the1332DTthe purpose1333NNpurpose ,1334,, which1335WDTwhich I1336PPI think1337VVPthink really1338RBreally first1339RBfirst appeared1340VVDappear prominently1341RBprominently in1342INin Judge1343NPJudge Hand1344NPHand 's1345POS's opinion1346NNopinion in1347INin Metallizing1348VVGmetallize and1349CCand then1350RBthen did1351VVDdo ...1352:... did1353VVDdo get1354VVget picked1355VVNpick up1356RPup in1357INin a1358DTa couple1359NNcouple of1360INof this1361DTthis Court1362NPCourt 's1363POS's decisions1364NNSdecision ,1365,, I1366PPI 'm1367VBPbe willing1368JJwilling to1369TOto accept1370VVaccept that1371IN/thatthat ,1372,, when1373WRBwhen you1374PPyou have1375VHPhave a1376DTa sale1377NNsale ,1378,, there1379EXthere is1380VBZbe obviously1381RBobviously a1382DTa commercial1383JJcommercial aspect1384NNaspect to1385TOto that1386DTthat .1387SENT. The1388DTthe person1389NNperson who1390WPwho sells1391VVZsell the1392DTthe item1393NNitem receives1394VVZreceive some1395DTsome consideration1396NNconsideration in1397INin response1398NNresponse to1399TOto that1400DTthat .1401SENT. But1402CCbut I1403PPI do1404VVPdo n't1405RBn't think1406VVthink it1407PPit 's1408VBZbe fair1409JJfair to1410TOto say1411VVsay that1412IN/thatthat what1413WPwhat Judge1414NPJudge Hand1415NPHand was1416VBDbe doing1417VVGdo was1418VBDbe saying1419VVGsay that1420IN/thatthat the1421DTthe on-sale1422JJon-sale bar1423NNbar reaches1424VVZreach all1425DTall forms1426NNSform of1427INof pre-patent1428JJpre-patent commercialization1429NNcommercialization .1430SENT. I1431PPI think1432VVPthink that1433IN/thatthat that1434DTthat is1435VBZbe an1436DTan over-reading1437NNover-reading of1438INof the1439DTthe on-sale1440JJon-sale bar1441NNbar .1442SENT. And1443CCand I1444PPI think1445VVPthink that1446IN/thatthat ,1447,, critically1448RBcritically ,1449,, even1450RBeven our1451PP$our interpretation1452NNinterpretation of1453INof the1454DTthe on-sale1455JJon-sale bar1456NNbar obviously1457RBobviously substantially1458RBsubstantially limits1459VVZlimit an1460DTan inventor1461NNinventor 's1462POS's ability1463NNability to1464TOto profit1465VVprofit from1466INfrom his1467PP$his or1468CCor her1469PP$her invention1470NNinvention because1471INbecause ,1472,, if1473INif you1474PPyou do1475VVPdo have1476VHhave public1477JJpublic availability1478NNavailability and1479CCand a1480DTa sale1481NNsale ,1482,, that1483WDTthat is1484VBZbe still1485RBstill going1486VVGgo to1487TOto be1488VBbe prohibited1489VVNprohibit .1490SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1491LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Mr1492NPMr .1493SENT. Shanmugam1494NPShanmugam ,1495,, is1496VBZbe it1497PPit ...1498:... [MR. SHANMUGAM]1499LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Our1500PP$our submission1501NNsubmission is1502VBZbe simply1503RBsimply that1504IN/thatthat the1505DTthe statute1506NNstatute ...1507:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1508LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] ...1509:... may1510MDmay ...1511:... may1512MDmay ...1513:... would1514MDwould you1515PPyou please1516VVplease clarify1517VVclarify one1518CDone thing1519NNthing ?1520SENT? I1521PPI ...1522:... I1523PPI thought1524VVDthink that1525IN/thatthat one1526CDone argument1527NNargument was1528VBDbe that1529IN/thatthat the1530DTthe AIA1531NPAIA changed1532VVDchange the1533DTthe way1534NNway it1535PPit was1536VBDbe .1537SENT. But1538CCbut your1539PP$your definition1540NNdefinition of1541INof "1542``" on1543INon sale1544NNsale "1545``" seems1546VVZseem to1547TOto apply1548VVapply ...1549:... you1550PPyou seem1551VVPseem to1552TOto say1553VVsay there1554EXthere was1555VBDbe no1556DTno change1557NNchange ;1558:; "1559``" on1560INon sale1561NNsale "1562``" never1563RBnever included1564VVDinclude the1565DTthe secret1566JJsecret sale1567NNsale .1568SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]1569LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Justice1570NPJustice Ginsburg1571NPGinsburg ,1572,, as1573INas I1574PPI said1575VVDsay at1576INat the1577DTthe outset1578NNoutset ,1579,, I1580PPI think1581VVPthink that1582IN/thatthat what1583WPwhat Congress1584NPCongress did1585VVDdo in1586INin the1587DTthe AIA1588NPAIA was1589VBDbe to1590TOto clarify1591VVclarify the1592DTthe proper1593JJproper understanding1594NNunderstanding of1595INof the1596DTthe phrase1597NNphrase .1598SENT. And1599CCand I1600PPI do1601VVPdo think1602VVthink that1603IN/thatthat at1604INat least1605JJSleast our1606PP$our argument1607NNargument concerning1608VVGconcern the1609DTthe noscitur1610NNnoscitur a1611DTa sociis1612NNsociis canon1613NNcanon would1614MDwould still1615RBstill have1616VHhave applied1617VVNapply even1618RBeven before1619INbefore the1620DTthe AIA1621NPAIA .1622SENT. Obviously1623RBobviously ,1624,, we1625PPwe have1626VHPhave the1627DTthe addition1628NNaddition of1629INof the1630DTthe catch-all1631NNcatch-all phrase1632NNphrase .1633SENT. And1634CCand I1635PPI think1636VVPthink ,1637,, under1638INunder this1639DTthis Court1640NPCourt 's1641POS's decisions1642NNSdecision construing1643VVGconstrue materially1644RBmaterially identical1645JJidentical language1646NNlanguage ,1647,, catch-all1648NNcatch-all provisions1649NNSprovision do1650VVPdo shed1651VVshed light1652NNlight on1653INon the1654DTthe meaning1655NNmeaning of1656INof the1657DTthe categories1658NNScategory that1659WDTthat precede1660VVPprecede them1661PPthem .1662SENT. But1663CCbut in1664INin our1665PP$our view1666NNview ...1667:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]1668LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] If1669INif that1670WDTthat was1671VBDbe a1672DTa ...1673:... [MR. SHANMUGAM]1674LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] ...1675:... in1676INin terms1677NNSterm of1678INof what1679WPwhat the1680DTthe ...1681:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]1682LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...1683:... if1684INif that1685WDTthat was1686VBDbe a1687DTa clarification1688NNclarification ,1689,, it1690PPit was1691VBDbe a1692DTa terrible1693JJterrible clarification1694NNclarification because1695INbecause there1696EXthere were1697VBDbe a1698DTa lot1699NNlot of1700INof efforts1701NNSeffort ,1702,, as1703INas you1704PPyou well1705RBwell know1706VVPknow ,1707,, to1708TOto actually1709RBactually change1710VVchange the1711DTthe "1712''" on1713INon sale1714NNsale "1715''" language1716NNlanguage ,1717,, and1718CCand those1719DTthose all1720RBall failed1721VVNfail .1722SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]1723LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I1724PPI think1725VVPthink ,1726,, in1727INin fairness1728NNfairness ,1729,, Justice1730NPJustice Kavanaugh1731NPKavanaugh ,1732,, I1733PPI would1734MDwould say1735VVsay that1736IN/thatthat this1737DTthis was1738VBDbe exactly1739RBexactly the1740DTthe way1741NNway to1742TOto achieve1743VVachieve Congress1744NPCongress 's1745POS's dual1746JJdual objective1747NNobjective .1748SENT. First1749NPFirst ...1750:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]1751LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] You1752PPyou do1753VVPdo n't1754RBn't think1755VVthink it1756PPit would1757MDwould have1758VHhave been1759VBNbe easier1760JJReasy to1761TOto just1762RBjust change1763VVchange it1764PPit directly1765RBdirectly ,1766,, as1767INas many1768JJmany members1769NNSmember of1770INof Congress1771NPCongress tried1772VVDtry to1773TOto do1774VVdo repeatedly1775RBrepeatedly and1776CCand failed1777VVNfail ?1778SENT? [MR. SHANMUGAM]1779LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I1780PPI ...1781:... I1782PPI think1783VVPthink that1784IN/thatthat that1785DTthat is1786VBZbe ,1787,, with1788INwith respect1789NNrespect ,1790,, an1791DTan overstatement1792NNoverstatement of1793INof what1794WPwhat members1795NNSmember of1796INof Congress1797NPCongress tried1798VVDtry to1799TOto do1800VVdo .1801SENT. I1802PPI think1803VVPthink that1804IN/thatthat ,1805,, at1806INat most1807JJSmost ,1808,, as1809INas Respondents1810NNSrespondent point1811VVPpoint out1812RPout ,1813,, there1814EXthere were1815VBDbe bills1816NNSbill that1817WDTthat would1818MDwould have1819VHhave deleted1820VVNdelete "1821''" public1822JJpublic use1823NNuse "1824''" and1825CCand "1826``" on1827INon sale1828NNsale "1829''" from1830INfrom the1831DTthe definition1832NNdefinition .1833SENT. But1834CCbut I1835PPI think1836VVPthink that1837IN/thatthat there1838EXthere was1839VBDbe good1840JJgood reason1841NNreason ,1842,, actually1843RBactually ,1844,, to1845TOto retain1846VVretain those1847DTthose phrases1848NNSphrase .1849SENT. As1850INas the1851DTthe legislative1852JJlegislative history1853NNhistory to1854TOto which1855WDTwhich ...1856:... to1857TOto which1858WDTwhich Respondents1859NNSrespondent point1860VVPpoint suggests1861VVZsuggest ,1862,, there1863EXthere was1864VBDbe a1865DTa surrounding1866VVGsurround jurisprudence1867NNjurisprudence concerning1868VVGconcern these1869DTthese terms1870NNSterm which1871WDTwhich Congress1872NPCongress may1873MDmay have1874VHhave wanted1875VVNwant to1876TOto retain1877VVretain ,1878,, things1879NNSthing like1880INlike the1881DTthe ready1882JJready for1883INfor patenting1884VVGpatent requirement1885NNrequirement .1886SENT. Retaining1887VVGretain those1888DTthose phrases1889NNSphrase also1890RBalso made1891VVDmake clear1892JJclear that1893IN/thatthat where1894WRBwhere the1895DTthe inventive1896JJinventive embodiment1897NNembodiment is1898VBZbe in1899INin the1900DTthe public1901JJpublic domain1902NNdomain ,1903,, the1904DTthe statute1905NNstatute reaches1906VVZreach those1907DTthose cases1908NNScase no1909RBno differently1910RBdifferently from1911INfrom when1912WRBwhen the1913DTthe inventive1914JJinventive idea1915NNidea is1916VBZbe in1917INin the1918DTthe public1919JJpublic domain1920NNdomain .1921SENT. What1922WPWhat Congress1923NPCongress was1924VBDbe trying1925VVGtry to1926TOto do1927VVdo in1928INin the1929DTthe catch-all1930NNcatch-all provision1931NNprovision ...1932:... and1933CCand the1934DTthe House1935NPHouse and1936CCand Senate1937NPSenate reports1938NNSreport ,1939,, the1940DTthe most1941RBSmost definitive1942JJdefinitive form1943NNform of1944INof legislative1945JJlegislative history1946NNhistory ,1947,, bear1948VVPbear this1949DTthis out1950NNout ...1951:... was1952VBDbe to1953TOto achieve1954VVachieve two1955CDtwo objectives1956NNSobjective :1957:: to1958TOto make1959VVmake sure1960JJsure that1961IN/thatthat they1962PPthey reached1963VVDreach all1964DTall forms1965NNSform of1966INof prior1967JJprior art1968NNart ,1969,, such1970JJsuch as1971INas oral1972JJoral presentations1973NNSpresentation ,1974,, PowerPoint1975NNPowerPoint presentations1976NNSpresentation ,1977,, and1978CCand the1979DTthe like1980JJlike ,1981,, and1982CCand also1983RBalso to1984TOto clarify1985VVclarify that1986IN/thatthat any1987DTany form1988NNform of1989INof prior1990JJprior art1991NNart must1992MDmust be1993VBbe publicly1994RBpublicly available1995JJavailable .1996SENT. And1997CCand notably1998RBnotably ...1999:... and2000CCand this2001DTthis gets2002VVZget to2003TOto Justice2004NPJustice Ginsburg2005NPGinsburg 's2006POS's question2007NNquestion about2008RBabout whether2009INwhether there2010EXthere was2011VBDbe a2012DTa change2013NNchange in2014INin the2015DTthe law2016NNlaw ...2017:... I2018PPI do2019VVPdo think2020VVthink that2021IN/thatthat what2022WPwhat Congress2023NPCongress was2024VBDbe doing2025VVGdo was2026VBDbe abrogating2027VVGabrogate some2028DTsome of2029INof the2030DTthe outlying2031JJoutlying lower2032JJRlow court2033NNcourt decisions2034NNSdecision that2035WDTthat had2036VHDhave extended2037VVNextend both2038CCboth the2039DTthe on-sale2040JJon-sale bar2041NNbar and2042CCand the2043DTthe public2044JJpublic use2045NNuse bar2046NNbar to2047TOto cases2048NNScase where2049WRBwhere there2050EXthere was2051VBDbe not2052RBnot public2053JJpublic availability2054NNavailability .2055SENT. And2056CCand ,2057,, indeed2058RBindeed ,2059,, the2060DTthe legislative2061JJlegislative history2062NNhistory identifies2063VVZidentify by2064INby name2065NNname some2066DTsome of2067INof the2068DTthe public2069JJpublic use2070NNuse cases2071NNScase that2072WDTthat had2073VHDhave so2074RBso held2075VVNhold ,2076,, cases2077NNScase like2078INlike the2079DTthe Beachcombers2080NNSbeachcomber decision2081NNdecision from2082INfrom the2083DTthe Federal2084NPFederal Circuit2085NPCircuit and2086CCand the2087DTthe JumpSport2088NPJumpSport decision2089NNdecision .2090SENT. We2091PPwe also2092RBalso point2093VVPpoint to2094TOto some2095DTsome of2096INof the2097DTthe on-sale2098JJon-sale cases2099NNScase that2100WDTthat had2101VHDhave extended2102VVNextend to2103TOto sales2104NNSsale that2105WDTthat did2106VVDdo not2107RBnot involve2108VVinvolve public2109JJpublic availability2110NNavailability ,2111,, cases2112NNScase like2113INlike Special2114JJspecial Devices2115NPSDevices and2116CCand Caveney2117NPCaveney .2118SENT. And2119CCand I2120PPI think2121VVPthink ,2122,, Justice2123NPJustice Kavanaugh2124NPKavanaugh ,2125,, that2126IN/thatthat that2127DTthat 's2128VBZbe precisely2129RBprecisely why2130WRBwhy you2131PPyou should2132MDshould think2133VVthink that2134IN/thatthat what2135WPwhat Congress2136NPCongress did2137VVDdo here2138RBhere was2139VBDbe fit2140VVNfit for2141INfor a2142DTa purpose2143NNpurpose .2144SENT. I2145PPI think2146VVPthink we2147PPwe would2148MDwould certainly2149RBcertainly acknowledge2150VVacknowledge that2151IN/thatthat Congress2152NPCongress could2153MDcould have2154VHhave modified2155VVNmodify the2156DTthe language2157NNlanguage of2158INof "2159``" on2160INon sale2161NNsale ,2162,, "2163''" but2164CCbut what2165WPwhat Congress2166NPCongress wanted2167VVDwant to2168TOto do2169VVdo ,2170,, we2171PPwe would2172MDwould respectfully2173RBrespectfully submit2174VVsubmit ,2175,, was2176VBDbe also2177RBalso to2178TOto fix2179VVfix some2180DTsome of2181INof this2182DTthis outlying2183JJoutlying Federal2184NPFederal Circuit2185NPCircuit case2186NNcase law2187NNlaw on2188INon public2189JJpublic use2190NNuse .2191SENT. Now2192RBnow ,2193,, of2194INof course2195NNcourse ,2196,, that2197DTthat phrase2198NNphrase "2199``" public2200JJpublic use2201NNuse "2202``" one2203PPone might2204MDmight think2205VVthink would2206MDwould have2207VHhave inherently2208RBinherently conveyed2209VVNconvey some2210DTsome notion2211NNnotion of2212INof public2213JJpublic availability2214NNavailability ,2215,, as2216INas Respondents2217NNSrespondent themselves2218PPthemselves suggest2219VVPsuggest in2220INin their2221PP$their brief2222NNbrief .2223SENT. But2224CCbut ,2225,, at2226INat the2227DTthe same2228JJsame time2229NNtime ,2230,, you2231PPyou had2232VHDhave the2233DTthe Federal2234NPFederal Circuit2235NPCircuit extending2236VVGextend the2237DTthe public2238JJpublic use2239NNuse bar2240NNbar to2241TOto circumstances2242NNScircumstance in2243INin which2244WDTwhich inventions2245NNSinvention were2246VBDbe displayed2247VVNdisplay ,2248,, and2249CCand private2250JJprivate parties2251NNSparty ,2252,, the2253DTthe JumpSport2254NPJumpSport case2255NNcase involved2256VVDinvolve a2257DTa trampoline2258NNtrampoline in2259INin the2260DTthe inventor2261NNinventor 's2262POS's backyard2263NNbackyard .2264SENT. These2265DTthese were2266VBDbe cases2267NNScase where2268WRBwhere ,2269,, in2270INin our2271PP$our view2272NNview ,2273,, there2274EXthere would2275MDwould not2276RBnot have2277VHhave been2278VBNbe public2279JJpublic availability2280NNavailability .2281SENT. And2282CCand so2283INso Congress2284NPCongress ,2285,, in2286INin including2287VVGinclude the2288DTthe catch-all2289NNcatch-all provision2290NNprovision ,2291,, did2292VVDdo what2293WPwhat Congress2294NPCongress did2295VVDdo in2296INin cases2297NNScase like2298INlike Seatrain2299NNSeatrain Lines2300NPLines and2301CCand Paroline2302NPParoline .2303SENT. It2304PPit shed2305VVDshed light2306NNlight on2307INon the2308DTthe meaning2309NNmeaning of2310INof the2311DTthe pre-existing2312VVGpre-exist specified2313JJspecified provisions2314NNSprovision ,2315,, and2316CCand to2317TOto be2318VBbe sure2319JJsure ,2320,, in2321INin those2322DTthose cases2323NNScase ,2324,, everything2325NNeverything was2326VBDbe enacted2327VVNenact at2328INat the2329DTthe same2330JJsame time2331NNtime ,2332,, but2333CCbut ,2334,, as2335INas a2336DTa textual2337JJtextual matter2338NNmatter ,2339,, you2340PPyou have2341VHPhave to2342TOto read2343VVread the2344DTthe statute2345NNstatute as2346INas a2347DTa whole2348NNwhole .2349SENT. And2350CCand ,2351,, again2352RBagain ,2353,, Respondents2354NNSrespondent '2355POS' argument2356NNargument here2357RBhere really2358RBreally rests2359VVZrest on2360INon this2361DTthis notion2362NNnotion of2363INof congressional2364JJcongressional ratification2365NNratification .2366SENT. The2367DTthe first2368JJfirst part2369NNpart of2370INof that2371WDTthat is2372VBZbe the2373DTthe part2374NNpart that2375IN/thatthat I2376PPI 've2377VHPhave already2378RBalready addressed2379VVNaddress ,2380,, this2381DTthis notion2382NNnotion that2383IN/thatthat there2384EXthere was2385VBDbe some2386DTsome settled2387VVNsettle body2388NNbody of2389INof law2390NNlaw saying2391VVGsay that2392IN/thatthat you2393PPyou do2394VVPdo n't2395RBn't have2396VHhave to2397TOto have2398VHhave public2399JJpublic availability2400NNavailability .2401SENT. And2402CCand not2403RBnot only2404RBonly did2405VVDdo this2406DTthis Court2407NPCourt never2408RBnever say2409VVPsay that2410IN/thatthat ,2411,, this2412DTthis Court2413NPCourt never2414RBnever did2415VVDdo that2416DTthat .2417SENT. But2418CCbut ,2419,, of2420INof course2421NNcourse ,2422,, the2423DTthe second2424JJsecond component2425NNcomponent of2426INof any2427DTany congressional2428JJcongressional ratification2429NNratification argument2430NNargument is2431VBZbe that2432IN/thatthat you2433PPyou have2434VHPhave to2435TOto have2436VHhave statutory2437JJstatutory language2438NNlanguage that2439WDTthat was2440VBDbe not2441RBnot changed2442VVNchange .2443SENT. And2444CCand this2445DTthis provision2446NNprovision was2447VBDbe dramatically2448RBdramatically revised2449VVNrevise and2450CCand ,2451,, to2452TOto be2453VBbe sure2454JJsure ,2455,, some2456DTsome elements2457NNSelement of2458INof the2459DTthe pre-AIA2460NPpre-AIA definition2461NNdefinition ,2462,, including2463VVGinclude the2464DTthe phrase2465NNphrase "2466''" on2467INon sale2468NNsale ,2469,, "2470''" were2471VBDbe retained2472VVNretain ,2473,, but2474CCbut at2475INat the2476DTthe same2477JJsame time2478NNtime ,2479,, Congress2480NPCongress added2481VVDadd the2482DTthe catch-all2483NNcatch-all phrase2484NNphrase .2485SENT. It2486PPit defined2487VVDdefine a2488DTa claimed2489VVNclaim invention2490NNinvention .2491SENT. And2492CCand ,2493,, of2494INof course2495NNcourse ,2496,, it2497PPit shifted2498VVDshift to2499TOto a2500DTa first-to-file2501JJfirst-to-file system2502NNsystem ,2503,, which2504WDTwhich largely2505RBlargely addresses2506VVZaddress this2507DTthis concern2508NNconcern about2509INabout improper2510JJimproper commercialization2511NNcommercialization because2512INbecause ,2513,, of2514INof course2515NNcourse ,2516,, any2517DTany inventor2518NNinventor who2519WPwho engages2520VVZengage in2521INin commercial2522JJcommercial activity2523NNactivity without2524INwithout applying2525VVGapply in2526INin a2527DTa first-to-file2528JJfirst-to-file system2529NNsystem runs2530VVZrun the2531DTthe risk2532NNrisk that2533IN/thatthat another2534DTanother inventor2535NNinventor will2536MDwill beat2537VVbeat them2538PPthem to2539TOto the2540DTthe Patent2541NPPatent Office2542NPOffice .2543SENT. And2544CCand that2545DTthat is2546VBZbe a2547DTa concern2548NNconcern ,2549,, I2550PPI would2551MDwould respectfully2552RBrespectfully submit2553VVsubmit ,2554,, that2555WDTthat is2556VBZbe particularly2557RBparticularly acute2558JJacute in2559INin a2560DTa context2561NNcontext like2562INlike this2563DTthis .2564SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2565LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] On2566INon ...2567:... on2568INon the2569DTthe first2570JJfirst part2571NNpart of2572INof what2573WPwhat you2574PPyou just2575RBjust said2576VVDsay as2577INas to2578TOto what2579WPwhat the2580DTthe law2581NNlaw was2582VBDbe ,2583,, the2584DTthe amicus2585NNamicus brief2586NNbrief ,2587,, the2588DTthe Lemley2589NPLemley amicus2590NNamicus brief2591NNbrief says2592VVZsay the2593DTthe law2594NNlaw has2595VHZhave always2596RBalways treated2597VVNtreat secret2598JJsecret sales2599NNSsale and2600CCand uses2601NNSuse as2602INas prior2603JJprior art2604NNart .2605SENT. Are2606VBPbe you2607PPyou disagreeing2608VVGdisagree with2609INwith that2610DTthat ?2611SENT? [MR. SHANMUGAM]2612LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I2613PPI am2614VBPbe disagreeing2615VVGdisagree with2616INwith that2617DTthat .2618SENT. And2619CCand ,2620,, again2621RBagain ,2622,, in2623INin our2624PP$our view2625NNview ...2626:... and2627CCand the2628DTthe government2629NNgovernment can2630MDcan offer2631VVoffer its2632PP$its view2633NNview with2634INwith the2635DTthe institutional2636JJinstitutional heft2637NNheft of2638INof the2639DTthe Patent2640NPPatent Office2641NPOffice ...2642:... there2643EXthere is2644VBZbe no2645DTno decision2646NNdecision of2647INof this2648DTthis Court2649NPCourt that2650WDTthat would2651MDwould have2652VHhave to2653TOto be2654VBbe disturbed2655VVNdisturb .2656SENT. In2657INin our2658PP$our view2659NNview ,2660,, there2661EXthere are2662VBPbe a2663DTa handful2664NNhandful of2665INof Federal2666NPFederal Circuit2667NPCircuit cases2668NNScase that2669WDTthat would2670MDwould come2671VVcome out2672RPout differently2673RBdifferently if2674INif a2675DTa public2676JJpublic availability2677NNavailability requirement2678NNrequirement is2679VBZbe applied2680VVNapply .2681SENT. And2682CCand I2683PPI want2684VVPwant to2685TOto say2686VVsay one2687PPone more2688JJRmore ...2689:... [JUSTICE BREYER]2690LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] What2691WPWhat about2692RBabout Bonito2693NPBonito Boats2694NNSboat ?2695SENT? I2696PPI mean2697VVPmean ,2698,, in2699INin Bonito2700NPBonito Boats2701NNSboat ,2702,, this2703DTthis Court2704NPCourt ,2705,, while2706INwhile it2707PPit is2708VBZbe n't2709RBn't necessary2710JJnecessary for2711INfor the2712DTthe holding2713NNholding ,2714,, does2715VVZdo quote2716NNquote Learned2717NPLearned Hand2718NPHand ,2719,, and2720CCand it2721PPit does2722VVZdo say2723VVPsay it2724PPit is2725VBZbe a2726DTa condition2727NNcondition upon2728INupon the2729DTthe inventor2730NNinventor 's2731POS's right2732NNright to2733TOto a2734DTa patent2735NNpatent that2736IN/thatthat he2737PPhe shall2738MDshall not2739RBnot exploit2740VVexploit his2741PP$his discovery2742NNdiscovery competitively2743RBcompetitively after2744INafter it2745PPit is2746VBZbe ready2747JJready for2748INfor patenting2749VVGpatent .2750SENT. He2751PPhe has2752VHZhave to2753TOto go2754VVgo ahead2755RBahead and2756CCand patent2757VVpatent it2758PPit or2759CCor keep2760VVkeep it2761PPit a2762DTa secret2763NNsecret forever2764RBforever .2765SENT. So2766INso an2767DTan inventor2768NNinventor who2769WPwho ,2770,, in2771INin fact2772NNfact ,2773,, in2774INin year2775NNyear one2776CDone has2777VHZhave his2778PP$his invention2779NNinvention ready2780JJready for2781INfor patenting2782VVGpatent ,2783,, and2784CCand goes2785VVZgo around2786RParound from2787INfrom one2788CDone person2789NNperson to2790TOto another2791DTanother secretly2792RBsecretly selling2793VVGsell it2794PPit to2795TOto each2796DTeach with2797INwith a2798DTa confidentiality2799NNconfidentiality agreement2800NNagreement ,2801,, is2802VBZbe a2803DTa person2804NNperson who2805WPwho is2806VBZbe exploiting2807VVGexploit his2808PP$his agreement2809NNagreement ...2810:... his2811PP$his invention2812NNinvention ,2813,, and2814CCand ,2815,, therefore2816RBtherefore ,2817,, since2818INsince he2819PPhe did2820VVDdo n't2821RBn't do2822VVdo it2823PPit through2824INthrough a2825DTa patent2826NNpatent ,2827,, he2828PPhe loses2829VVZlose the2830DTthe right2831NNright for2832INfor a2833DTa patent2834NNpatent .2835SENT. That2836DTthat seemed2837VVDseem to2838TOto me2839PPme the2840DTthe clear2841JJclear ...2842:... pretty2843RBpretty clear2844JJclear rationale2845NNrationale of2846INof Learned2847NPLearned Hand2848NPHand ,2849,, of2850INof why2851WRBwhy the2852DTthe Court2853NPCourt did2854VVDdo that2855IN/thatthat in2856INin Bonito2857NPBonito Boats2858NNSboat ,2859,, of2860INof why2861WRBwhy Justice2862NPJustice Story2863NNstory said2864VVDsay what2865WPwhat he2866PPhe said2867VVDsay ,2868,, and2869CCand I2870PPI think2871VVPthink it2872PPit 's2873VBZbe that2874RBthat that2875IN/thatthat the2876DTthe Lemley2877NPLemley brief2878NNbrief was2879VBDbe relying2880VVGrely upon2881INupon when2882WRBwhen they2883PPthey made2884VVDmake that2885DTthat statement2886NNstatement .2887SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]2888LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] We2889PPwe are2890VBPbe not2891RBnot disagreeing2892VVGdisagree that2893IN/thatthat that2894WDTthat can2895MDcan be2896VBbe fairly2897RBfairly read2898VVNread to2899TOto be2900VBbe a2901DTa purpose2902NNpurpose of2903INof the2904DTthe on-sale2905JJon-sale bar2906NNbar .2907SENT. My2908PP$my submission2909NNsubmission is2910VBZbe a2911DTa much2912RBmuch more2913RBRmore modest2914JJmodest one2915CDone .2916SENT. It2917PPit is2918VBZbe that2919IN/thatthat ,2920,, in2921INin order2922NNorder to2923TOto accept2924VVaccept Respondents2925NNSrespondent '2926POS' submission2927NNsubmission ,2928,, you2929PPyou have2930VHPhave to2931TOto think2932VVthink that2933IN/thatthat the2934DTthe on-sale2935JJon-sale bar2936NNbar really2937RBreally pursues2938VVZpursue that2939DTthat purpose2940NNpurpose at2941INat all2942DTall costs2943NNScost .2944SENT. And2945CCand part2946NNpart of2947INof the2948DTthe reason2949NNreason why2950WRBwhy we2951PPwe know2952VVPknow that2953IN/thatthat that2954DTthat is2955VBZbe not2956RBnot true2957JJtrue is2958VBZbe because2959INbecause Respondents2960NNSrespondent themselves2961PPthemselves concede2962VVPconcede that2963IN/thatthat ,2964,, if2965INif this2966DTthis arrangement2967NNarrangement had2968VHDhave been2969VBNbe structured2970VVNstructure slightly2971RBslightly differently2972RBdifferently ,2973,, if2974INif this2975DTthis had2976VHDhave been2977VBNbe structured2978VVNstructure as2979INas a2980DTa right2981NNright to2982TOto profit2983VVprofit sharing2984VVGshare rather2985RBrather than2986INthan a2987DTa ...2988:... a2989DTa structure2990NNstructure where2991WRBwhere you2992PPyou have2993VHPhave upfront2994NNupfront payments2995NNSpayment followed2996VVNfollow by2997INby payments2998NNSpayment per2999INper unit3000NNunit for3001INfor any3002DTany eventual3003JJeventual product3004NNproduct ,3005,, if3006INif there3007EXthere even3008RBeven is3009VBZbe one3010CDone ...3011:... [JUSTICE BREYER]3012LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Can3013MDcan we3014PPwe ...3015:... can3016MDcan we3017PPwe accept3018VVaccept that3019DTthat point3020NNpoint ,3021,, write3022VVwrite something3023NNsomething in3024INin your3025PP$your favor3026NNfavor on3027INon that3028DTthat ,3029,, that3030WDTthat is3031VBZbe ,3032,, that3033IN/thatthat there3034EXthere is3035VBZbe a3036DTa question3037NNquestion of3038INof what3039WPwhat is3040VBZbe on3041INon sale3042NNsale .3043SENT. It3044PPit 's3045VBZbe not3046RBnot the3047DTthe public3048NNpublic /3049SYM/ private3050JJprivate question3051NNquestion .3052SENT. There3053EXthere are3054VBPbe experimental3055JJexperimental exceptions3056NNSexception ,3057,, for3058INfor example3059NNexample ,3060,, and3061CCand perhaps3062RBperhaps there3063EXthere should3064MDshould be3065VBbe other3066JJother ,3067,, if3068INif not3069RBnot exceptions3070NNSexception ,3071,, at3072INat least3073JJSleast care3074NNcare taken3075VVNtake to3076TOto be3077VBbe certain3078JJcertain that3079IN/thatthat it3080PPit is3081VBZbe an3082DTan exploitation3083NNexploitation of3084INof the3085DTthe invention3086NNinvention when3087WRBwhen it3088PPit is3089VBZbe a3090DTa private3091JJprivate sale3092NNsale .3093SENT. I3094PPI mean3095VVPmean ,3096,, to3097TOto go3098VVgo that3099WDTthat far3100RBfar seems3101VVZseem consistent3102JJconsistent with3103INwith what3104WPwhat we3105PPwe have3106VHPhave previously3107RBpreviously said3108VVNsay and3109CCand what3110WPwhat they3111PPthey say3112VVPsay with3113INwith the3114DTthe exceptions3115NNSexception in3116INin the3117DTthe statute3118NNstatute .3119SENT. It3120PPit 's3121VBZbe where3122WRBwhere you3123PPyou want3124VVPwant much3125RBmuch more3126JJRmore than3127INthan that3128DTthat ,3129,, really3130RBreally ,3131,, that3132WDTthat ...3133:... you3134PPyou 've3135VHPhave read3136VVNread ...3137:... [MR. SHANMUGAM]3138LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I3139PPI ...3140:... I3141PPI do3142VVPdo n't3143RBn't think3144VVthink we3145PPwe want3146VVwant ...3147:... [JUSTICE BREYER]3148LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...3149:... the3150DTthe Lemley3151NPLemley brief3152NNbrief .3153SENT. I3154PPI 've3155VHPhave read3156VVNread the3157DTthe Lemley3158NPLemley brief3159NNbrief .3160SENT. We3161PPwe 've3162VHPhave all3163RBall read3164VVNread these3165DTthese different3166JJdifferent ...3167:... [MR. SHANMUGAM]3168LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] Justice3169NPJustice Breyer3170NPBreyer ,3171,, I3172PPI do3173VVPdo n't3174RBn't think3175VVthink we3176PPwe want3177VVPwant much3178RBmuch more3179JJRmore than3180INthan that3181DTthat .3182SENT. We3183PPwe might3184MDmight suggest3185VVsuggest ,3186,, respectfully3187RBrespectfully ,3188,, that3189IN/thatthat the3190DTthe opinion3191NNopinion be3192VBbe written3193VVNwrite slightly3194RBslightly differently3195RBdifferently .3196SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3197LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yes3198NPYes .3199SENT. [MR. SHANMUGAM]3200LOC[MR. SHANMUGAM] I3201PPI mean3202VVPmean ,3203,, I3204PPI think3205VVPthink that3206IN/thatthat we3207PPwe think3208VVPthink that3209IN/thatthat this3210DTthis Court3211NPCourt should3212MDshould correct3213VVcorrect the3214DTthe Federal3215NPFederal Circu3216NPCircu it3217PPit 's3218VBZbe error3219NNerror ,3220,, which3221WDTwhich is3222VBZbe to3223TOto say3224VVsay that3225DTthat public3226JJpublic availability3227NNavailability is3228VBZbe not3229RBnot required3230VVNrequire .3231SENT. Now3232RBnow Respondents3233NNSrespondent ,3234,, we3235PPwe believe3236VVPbelieve ,3237,, have3238VHPhave forfeited3239VVNforfeit any3240DTany argument3241NNargument that3242IN/thatthat there3243EXthere is3244VBZbe public3245JJpublic availability3246NNavailability here3247RBhere .3248SENT. But3249CCbut we3250PPwe also3251RBalso think3252VVPthink that3253IN/thatthat this3254DTthis would3255MDwould be3256VBbe an3257DTan easy3258JJeasy case3259NNcase under3260INunder a3261DTa public3262JJpublic availability3263NNavailability requirement3264NNrequirement ,3265,, both3266CCboth because3267INbecause this3268DTthis involved3269VVNinvolve a3270DTa sale3271NNsale to3272TOto a3273DTa single3274JJsingle distributor3275NNdistributor ,3276,, MGI3277NPMGI ,3278,, that3279WDTthat was3280VBDbe under3281INunder an3282DTan obligation3283NNobligation of3284INof confidentiality3285NNconfidentiality ,3286,, and3287CCand also3288RBalso because3289INbecause this3290DTthis was3291VBDbe a3292DTa development3293NNdevelopment arrangement3294NNarrangement of3295INof which3296WDTwhich distribution3297NNdistribution was3298VBDbe an3299DTan eventual3300JJeventual possible3301JJpossible part3302NNpart .3303SENT. There3304EXthere was3305VBDbe not3306RBnot even3307RBeven a3308DTa product3309NNproduct at3310INat the3311DTthe time3312NNtime of3313INof this3314DTthis arrangement3315NNarrangement .3316SENT. And3317CCand so3318RBso we3319PPwe certainly3320RBcertainly think3321VVPthink that3322IN/thatthat this3323DTthis would3324MDwould be3325VBbe an3326DTan easy3327JJeasy case3328NNcase under3329INunder a3330DTa public3331JJpublic availability3332NNavailability requirement3333NNrequirement .3334SENT. I3335PPI 'd3336MDwould like3337VVlike to3338TOto reserve3339VVreserve the3340DTthe balance3341NNbalance of3342INof my3343PP$my time3344NNtime for3345INfor rebuttal3346NNrebuttal .3347SENT. Thank3348VVthank you3349PPyou .3350SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3351LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank3352VVthank you3353PPyou ,3354,, counsel3355NNcounsel .3356SENT. Mr3357NPMr .3358SENT. Stewart3359NPStewart .3360SENT.