[MR. STEWART]21LOC[MR. STEWART] Thank22VVthank you23PPyou ,24,, Mr25NPMr .26SENT. Chief27NPChief Justice28NPJustice ,29,, and30CCand may31MDmay it32PPit please33VVplease the34DTthe Court35NPCourt :36:: The37DTthe Lanham38NPLanham Act39NPAct 's40POS's ban41NNban on42INon federal43JJfederal registration44NNregistration of45INof scandalous46JJscandalous trademarks47NNStrademark is48VBZbe not49RBnot a50DTa restriction51NNrestriction on52INon speech53NNspeech but54CCbut a55DTa valid56JJvalid condition57NNcondition on58INon participation59NNparticipation in60INin a61DTa federal62JJfederal program63NNprogram .64SENT. On65INon its66PP$its face67NNface ,68,, and69CCand as70RBas applied71VVNapply here72RBhere ,73,, the74DTthe provision75NNprovision is76VBZbe ...77:... is78VBZbe viewpoint-neutral79JJviewpoint-neutral .80SENT. The81DTthe scandalous82JJscandalous marks83NNSmark provision84NNprovision is85VBZbe one86CDone of87INof many88JJmany content-based89JJcontent-based criteria90NNScriterion for91INfor federal92JJfederal trademark93NNtrademark registration94NNregistration ,95,, and96CCand consideration97NNconsideration of98INof a99DTa mark100NNmark 's101POS's content102NNcontent is103VBZbe essential104JJessential ...105:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]106LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Could107MDcould you108PPyou please109VVplease tell110VVtell me111PPme how112WRBhow you113PPyou 're114VBPbe defining115VVGdefine "116``" scandalous117JJscandalous mark118NNmark "119''" ?120SENT? From121INfrom your122PP$your brief123NNbrief ,124,, I125PPI thought126VVDthink you127PPyou were128VBDbe giving129VVGgive it130PPit a131DTa different132JJdifferent definition133NNdefinition than134INthan has135VHZhave been136VBNbe used137VVNuse by138INby the139DTthe agency140NNagency for141INfor a142DTa while143NNwhile .144SENT. [MR. STEWART]145LOC[MR. STEWART] Well146UHWell ,147,, the148DTthe ...149:... the150DTthe term151NNterm ...152:... the153DTthe adjectives154NNSadjective that155WDTthat have156VHPhave sometimes157RBsometimes been158VBNbe used159VVNuse as160INas synonyms161NNSsynonym for162INfor "163``" scandalous164JJscandalous "165''" by166INby the167DTthe agency168NNagency are169VBPbe terms170NNSterm like171INlike "172``" shocking173JJshocking ,174,, "175''" "176``" disgraceful177JJdisgraceful ,178,, "179''" "180``" offensive181JJoffensive ,182,, "183''" and184CCand "185``" disreputable186JJdisreputable .187SENT. "188``" I189PPI think190VVPthink one191CDone ...192:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]193LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Well194UHWell ,195,, if196INif you197PPyou use198VVPuse all199PDTall those200DTthose adjectives201NNSadjective ,202,, you203PPyou run204VVPrun head-on205RBhead-on to206TOto Tam207NPTam .208SENT. [MR. STEWART]209LOC[MR. STEWART] I210PPI think211VVPthink one212CDone sense213NNsense in214INin which215WDTwhich we216PPwe have217VHPhave ...218:... the219DTthe ...220:... I221PPI think222VVPthink this223DTthis has224VHZhave always225RBalways been226VBNbe at227INat the228DTthe core229NNcore of230INof the231DTthe prohibition232NNprohibition ,233,, but234CCbut I235PPI think236VVPthink Tam237NPTam has238VHZhave led239VVNlead us240PPus to241TOto focus242VVfocus more243RBRmore on244INon limiting245VVGlimit the246DTthe scope247NNscope of248INof those249DTthose adjectives250NNSadjective .251SENT. That252DTthat is253VBZbe ,254,, on255INon their256PP$their face257NNface ,258,, those259DTthose adjectives260NNSadjective could261MDcould encompass262VVencompass material263NNmaterial that264WDTthat is265VBZbe offensive266JJoffensive or267CCor shocking268JJshocking because269INbecause of270INof the271DTthe outrageous272JJoutrageous views273NNSview that274IN/thatthat it275PPit expresses276VVZexpress .277SENT. And278CCand we279PPwe know280VVPknow from281INfrom Tam282NPTam that283IN/thatthat that284WDTthat 's285VBZbe ...286:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]287LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But288CCbut that289DTthat 's290VBZbe viewpoint291NNviewpoint discrimination292NNdiscrimination .293SENT. [MR. STEWART]294LOC[MR. STEWART] That295DTthat 's296VBZbe viewpoint297NNviewpoint discrimination298NNdiscrimination .299SENT. It300PPit 's301VBZbe not302RBnot a303DTa valid304JJvalid basis305NNbasis for306INfor denial307NNdenial of308INof federal309JJfederal registration310NNregistration of311INof a312DTa trademark313NNtrademark .314SENT. So315RBso I316PPI think317VVPthink it318PPit has319VHZhave always320RBalways been321VBNbe the322DTthe PTO323NPPTO 's324POS's focus325NNfocus ,326,, but327CCbut ,328,, from329INfrom here330RBhere on331RBon ,332,, I333PPI believe334VVPbelieve it335PPit will336MDwill be337VBbe the338DTthe exclusive339JJexclusive focus340NNfocus on341INon marks342NNSmark that343WDTthat are344VBPbe shocking345JJshocking ,346,, offensive347JJoffensive ...348:... or349CCor offensive350JJoffensive because351INbecause of352INof the353DTthe mode354NNmode of355INof expression356NNexpression ,357,, not358RBnot because359INbecause of360INof the361DTthe ideas362NNSidea ...363:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]364LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] How365WRBHow is366VBZbe ...367:... how368WRBhow is369VBZbe that370IN/thatthat determined371VVNdetermine ,372,, that373IN/thatthat a374DTa substantial375JJsubstantial composite376NNcomposite of377INof the378DTthe general379JJgeneral public380NNpublic would381MDwould find382VVfind the383DTthe ...384:... the385DTthe mark386NNmark shocking387JJshocking or388CCor offensive389JJoffensive ?390SENT? I391PPI mean392VVPmean ,393,, if394INif ...395:... considering396VVGconsider what397WPwhat 's398VBZbe involved399VVNinvolve in400INin this401DTthis case402NNcase ,403,, if404INif you405PPyou were406VBDbe to407TOto take408VVtake a409DTa ...410:... a411DTa composite412NNcomposite of413INof ,414,, say415VVPsay ,416,, 20-year-olds417NNS20-year-olds ,418,, do419VVPdo you420PPyou think421VVPthink that422IN/thatthat that423DTthat answer424NNanswer would425MDwould be426VBbe they427PPthey would428MDwould find429VVfind it430PPit shocking431JJshocking ?432SENT? [MR. STEWART]433LOC[MR. STEWART] I434PPI ...435:... I436PPI think437VVPthink not438RBnot ...439:... I440PPI think441VVPthink there442EXthere are443VBPbe certainly444RBcertainly some445DTsome segments446NNSsegment of447INof society448NNsociety that449WDTthat are450VBPbe more451RBRmore likely452JJlikely to453TOto find454VVfind particular455JJparticular marks456NNSmark shocking457JJshocking than458INthan others459NNSother .460SENT. I461PPI ...462:... the463DTthe ...464:... the465DTthe PTO466NPPTO ,467,, it468PPit ...469:... its470PP$its initial471JJinitial determination472NNdetermination was473VBDbe that474IN/thatthat this475DTthis mark476NNmark would477MDwould be478VBbe perceived479VVNperceive by480INby a481DTa substantial482JJsubstantial segment483NNsegment of484INof the485DTthe public486NNpublic as487INas the488DTthe equivalent489NNequivalent of490INof the491DTthe profane492JJprofane past493JJpast participle494NNparticiple form495NNform of496INof a497DTa well-known498JJwell-known word499NNword of500INof profanity501NNprofanity and502CCand perhaps503RBperhaps the504DTthe paradigmatic505JJparadigmatic word506NNword of507INof profanity508NNprofanity in509INin our510PP$our language511NNlanguage .512SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]513LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So514INso why515WRBwhy are516VBPbe you517PPyou using518VVGuse a519DTa subjective520JJsubjective standard521NNstandard ?522SENT? Why523WRBwhy not524RBnot just525RBjust something526NNsomething like527INlike obscene528JJobscene ,529,, vulgar530JJvulgar ,531,, even532RBeven profane533JJprofane ?534SENT? But535CCbut ,536,, once537RBonce you538PPyou get539VVPget to540TOto shockingly541RBshockingly offensive542JJoffensive ,543,, you544PPyou get545VVPget to546TOto viewpoint547NNviewpoint .548SENT. One549CDOne way550NNway or551CCor another552DTanother ,553,, it554PPit 's555VBZbe always556RBalways subjective557JJsubjective .558SENT. I559PPI ...560:... I561PPI ...562:... I563PPI ...564:... I565PPI can566MDcan deal567VVdeal with568INwith a569DTa limiting570VVGlimit principle571NNprinciple that572WDTthat has573VHZhave its574PP$its own575JJown substance576NNsubstance ,577,, like578INlike obscenity579NNobscenity .580SENT. [MR. STEWART]581LOC[MR. STEWART] I582PPI ...583:... I584PPI would585MDwould agree586VVagree that587IN/thatthat if588INif you589PPyou just590RBjust looked591VVDlook at592INat the593DTthe words594NNSword like595INlike "596``" shocking597JJshocking "598''" and599CCand "600``" offensive601JJoffensive "602''" on603INon their604PP$their face605NNface and606CCand gave607VVDgive them608PPthem their609PP$their ordinary610JJordinary meanings611NNSmeaning ,612,, that613WDTthat they614PPthey could615MDcould easily616RBeasily encompass617VVencompass material618NNmaterial that619WDTthat was620VBDbe shocking621JJshocking because622INbecause it623PPit expressed624VVDexpress an625DTan outrageous626JJoutrageous point627NNpoint of628INof view629NNview or630CCor a631DTa point632NNpoint of633INof view634NNview that635IN/thatthat most636JJSmost members637NNSmember ...638:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]639LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Well640UHWell ,641,, Mr642NPMr .643SENT. Stewart644NPStewart ,645,, if646INif ...647:... if648INif you649PPyou agree650VVPagree with651INwith that652DTthat ,653,, I654PPI mean655VVPmean ,656,, what657WPwhat are658VBPbe we659PPwe supposed660VVNsuppose to661TOto be662VBbe doing663VVGdo here664RBhere ?665SENT? Are666VBPbe we667PPwe supposed668VVNsuppose to669TOto be670VBbe looking671VVGlook at672INat the673DTthe statutory674JJstatutory words675NNSword ?676SENT? Are677VBPbe we678PPwe supposed679VVNsuppose to680TOto be681VBbe looking682VVGlook at683INat the684DTthe fuller685JJRfull standard686NNstandard that687IN/thatthat the688DTthe Federal689NPFederal Circuit690NPCircuit gave691VVDgive to692TOto explain693VVexplain those694DTthose words695NNSword ?696SENT? Or697CCor are698VBPbe we699PPwe supposed700VVNsuppose to701TOto be702VBbe looking703VVGlook just704RBjust at705INat your706PP$your commitments707NNScommitment as708INas to709TOto what710WPwhat you711PPyou 're712VBPbe doing713VVGdo going714VVGgo forward715RBforward ?716SENT? I717PPI mean718VVPmean ,719,, if720INif you721PPyou take722VVPtake the723DTthe statutory724JJstatutory words725NNSword ,726,, they727PPthey 're728VBPbe very729RBvery broad730JJbroad .731SENT. They732PPthey do733VVPdo include734VVinclude things735NNSthing that736WDTthat are737VBPbe offensive738JJoffensive because739INbecause of740INof the741DTthe ideas742NNSidea they743PPthey express744VVPexpress .745SENT. So746RBso why747WRBwhy is748VBZbe n't749RBn't that750IN/thatthat just751RBjust the752DTthe end753NNend of754INof the755DTthe matter756NNmatter ?757SENT? And758CCand if759INif ...760:... if761INif ...762:... if763INif Congress764NPCongress wants765VVZwant to766TOto pass767VVpass a768DTa statute769NNstatute that770WDTthat 's771VBZbe narrower772JJRnarrow ,773,, that774WDTthat 's775VBZbe focused776VVNfocus on777INon vulgarity778NNvulgarity or779CCor profanity780NNprofanity ,781,, then782RBthen Congress783NPCongress can784MDcan do785VVdo that786DTthat .787SENT. [MR. STEWART]788LOC[MR. STEWART] Well789UHwell ,790,, I791PPI think792VVPthink typically793RBtypically the794DTthe Court795NPCourt would796MDwould attempt797VVattempt to798TOto construe799VVconstrue a800DTa federal801JJfederal statute802NNstatute in803INin a804DTa way805NNway that806WDTthat would807MDwould render808VVrender it809PPit constitutional810JJconstitutional rather811RBrather than812INthan unconstitutional813JJunconstitutional .814SENT. And815CCand I816PPI think817VVPthink the818DTthe scandalous819JJscandalous marks820NNSmark provision821NNprovision is822VBZbe ,823,, at824INat the825DTthe very826RBvery least827JJSleast ,828,, susceptible829JJsusceptible of830INof a831DTa reading832NNreading that833WDTthat would834MDwould render835VVrender it836PPit constitutional837JJconstitutional .838SENT. If839INif the840DTthe focus841NNfocus is842VBZbe on843INon profanity844NNprofanity ,845,, vulgarity846NNvulgarity ...847:... and848CCand we849PPwe 're850VBPbe not851RBnot just852RBjust talking853VVGtalk about854INabout words855NNSword ;856:; we857PPwe 're858VBPbe also859RBalso talking860VVGtalk about861INabout images862NNSimage ,863,, that864WDTthat trademarks865NNStrademark can866MDcan include867VVinclude images868NNSimage as869RBas well870RBwell as871INas words872NNSword ...873:... and874CCand if875INif the876DTthe scandalous877JJscandalous marks878NNSmark provision879NNprovision were880VBDbe struck881VVNstrike down882RPdown ,883,, then884RBthen applicants885NNSapplicant would886MDwould be887VBbe free888JJfree to889TOto obtain890VVobtain registration891NNregistration of892INof sexually893RBsexually explicit894JJexplicit images895NNSimage .896SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]897LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Is898VBZbe it899PPit ...900:... your901PP$your ...902:... this903DTthis is904VBZbe a905DTa facial906JJfacial challenge907NNchallenge ,908,, right909RBright ?910SENT? [MR. STEWART]911LOC[MR. STEWART] That912DTthat 's913VBZbe correct914JJcorrect .915SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]916LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So917INso it918PPit 's919VBZbe not920RBnot simply921RBsimply enough922JJenough to923TOto determine924VVdetermine that925IN/thatthat this926DTthis particular927JJparticular trademark928NNtrademark is929VBZbe scandalous930JJscandalous ,931,, right932RBright ?933SENT? [MR. STEWART]934LOC[MR. STEWART] That's935NPThat's ...936:... that937WDTthat 's938VBZbe correct939JJcorrect .940SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]941LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well942UHwell ,943,, I944PPI did945VVDdo n't946RBn't understand947VVunderstand you948PPyou in949INin your950PP$your brief951NNbrief to952TOto make953VVmake much954RBmuch of955INof an956DTan argument957NNargument about958INabout that959DTthat .960SENT. [MR. STEWART]961LOC[MR. STEWART] Well962UHWell ,963,, in964INin part965NNpart ...966:... in967INin part968NNpart because969INbecause ,970,, once971INonce you972PPyou ...973:... if974INif you975PPyou accept976VVPaccept the977DTthe PTO978NPPTO 's979POS's initial980JJinitial determination981NNdetermination that982IN/thatthat this983DTthis mark984NNmark would985MDwould be986VBbe perceived987VVNperceive as988INas the989DTthe equivalent990NNequivalent of991INof the992DTthe past993JJpast participle994NNparticiple form995NNform of996INof the997DTthe ...998:... the999DTthe paradigmatic1000JJparadigmatic profane1001JJprofane word1002NNword in1003INin our1004PP$our culture1005NNculture ,1006,, once1007RBonce you1008PPyou accept1009VVPaccept that1010IN/thatthat ,1011,, it1012PPit 's1013VBZbe hard1014JJhard to1015TOto see1016VVsee what1017WPwhat would1018MDwould be1019VBbe covered1020VVNcover if1021INif this1022DTthis is1023VBZbe not1024RBnot .1025SENT. But1026CCbut I1027PPI certainly1028RBcertainly ...1029:... we1030PPwe certainly1031RBcertainly agree1032VVPagree with1033INwith your1034PP$your point1035NNpoint that1036IN/thatthat it1037PPit 's1038VBZbe a1039DTa facial1040JJfacial challenge1041NNchallenge .1042SENT. The1043DTthe question1044NNquestion is1045VBZbe whether1046INwhether it1047PPit is1048VBZbe susceptible1049JJsusceptible of1050INof constitutional1051JJconstitutional application1052NNapplication .1053SENT. We1054PPwe think1055VVPthink that1056IN/thatthat Mr1057NPMr .1058SENT. Brunetti1059NPBrunetti 's1060POS's mark1061NNmark was1062VBDbe ...1063:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1064LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Whether1065INwhether the1066DTthe ...1067:... whether1068INwhether the1069DTthe provision1070NNprovision itself1071PPitself is1072VBZbe susceptible1073JJsusceptible ?1074SENT? [MR. STEWART]1075LOC[MR. STEWART] Of1076INof constitutional1077JJconstitutional application1078NNapplication .1079SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1080LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Right1081RBright .1082SENT. And1083CCand this1084DTthis provision1085NNprovision covers1086VVZcover obscenity1087NNobscenity ?1088SENT? [MR. STEWART]1089LOC[MR. STEWART] It1090PPit would1091MDwould cover1092VVcover obscenity1093NNobscenity .1094SENT. Now1095RBnow ...1096:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1097LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So1098RBso if1099INif it1100PPit 's1101VBZbe ...1102:... what1103WPwhat would1104MDwould happen1105VVhappen if1106INif we1107PPwe agreed1108VVDagree with1109INwith the1110DTthe Respondents1111NNSrespondent ?1112SENT? Would1113MDwould the1114DTthe whole1115JJwhole provision1116NNprovision be1117VBbe struck1118VVNstrike down1119RPdown ?1120SENT? [MR. STEWART]1121LOC[MR. STEWART] I1122PPI ...1123:... the1124DTthe Respondents1125NNSrespondent ...1126:... I1127PPI ...1128:... the1129DTthe Respondents1130NNSrespondent might1131MDmight say1132VVsay that1133IN/thatthat the1134DTthe provision1135NNprovision on1136INon its1137PP$its face1138NNface is1139VBZbe so1140RBso substantial1141JJsubstantial ...1142:... that1143WDTthat if1144INif the1145DTthe only1146JJonly legitimate1147JJlegitimate applications1148NNSapplication were1149VBDbe to1150TOto obscene1151JJobscene materials1152NNSmaterial ,1153,, the1154DTthe Respondent1155NNrespondent might1156MDmight say1157VVsay it1158PPit is1159VBZbe so1160RBso substantially1161RBsubstantially broad1162JJbroad ,1163,, overbroad1164NNoverbroad on1165INon its1166PP$its face1167NNface ,1168,, covers1169VVZcover so1170RBso much1171RBmuch more1172JJRmore than1173INthan that1174DTthat ,1175,, that1176IN/thatthat it1177PPit can1178MDcan 't1179RB't be1180VBbe sustained1181VVNsustain even1182RBeven ...1183:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1184LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] So1185RBso if1186INif this1187DTthis is1188VBZbe ...1189:... the1190DTthe entire1191JJentire provision1192NNprovision is1193VBZbe struck1194VVNstrike down1195RBdown ,1196,, the1197DTthe government1198NNgovernment would1199MDwould not1200RBnot be1201VBbe able1202JJable to1203TOto restrict1204VVrestrict trademarks1205NNStrademark that1206WDTthat are1207VBPbe obscene1208JJobscene ?1209SENT? [MR. STEWART]1210LOC[MR. STEWART] We1211PPwe ...1212:... I1213PPI mean1214VVPmean ,1215,, the1216DTthe government1217NNgovernment could1218MDcould restrict1219VVrestrict ...1220:... without1221INwithout regard1222NNregard to1223TOto federal1224JJfederal registration1225NNregistration ,1226,, the1227DTthe government1228NNgovernment could1229MDcould restrict1230VVrestrict the1231DTthe sale1232NNsale of1233INof goods1234NNSgood in1235INin commerce1236NNcommerce that1237WDTthat ...1238:... that1239DTthat ...1240:... on1241INon which1242WDTwhich were1243VBDbe emblazoned1244VVNemblazon obscene1245JJobscene trademarks1246NNStrademark or1247CCor the1248DTthe ...1249:... the1250DTthe mailing1251NNmailing of1252INof such1253JJsuch goods1254NNSgood .1255SENT. I1256PPI think1257VVPthink ,1258,, for1259INfor that1260DTthat reason1261NNreason ,1262,, to1263TOto limit1264VVlimit it1265PPit in1266INin that1267DTthat fashion1268NNfashion would1269MDwould n't1270RBn't really1271RBreally accomplish1272VVaccomplish much1273RBmuch .1274SENT. We1275PPwe ...1276:... we1277PPwe agree1278VVPagree that1279IN/thatthat it1280PPit should1281MDshould be1282VBbe limited1283VVNlimit so1284RBso that1285IN/thatthat it1286PPit is1287VBZbe n't1288RBn't viewpoint1289NNviewpoint discriminatory1290JJdiscriminatory ,1291,, but1292CCbut to1293TOto limit1294VVlimit it1295PPit to1296TOto obscene1297JJobscene words1298NNSword ,1299,, both1300CCboth would1301MDwould render1302VVrender it1303PPit a1304DTa virtual1305JJvirtual nullity1306NNnullity ,1307,, and1308CCand there1309EXthere 's1310VBZbe also1311RBalso no1312DTno good1313JJgood reason1314NNreason that1315IN/thatthat the1316DTthe standard1317NNstandard for1318INfor determining1319VVGdetermine whether1320INwhether a1321DTa particular1322JJparticular mark1323NNmark can1324MDcan be1325VBbe placed1326VVNplace on1327INon goods1328NNSgood that1329WDTthat are1330VBPbe out1331RBout in1332INin the1333DTthe public1334JJpublic marketplace1335NNmarketplace should1336MDshould be1337VBbe the1338DTthe same1339JJsame as1340RBas ...1341:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1342LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Let1343VVlet me1344PPme ...1345:... [MR. STEWART]1346LOC[MR. STEWART] ...1347:... the1348DTthe standard1349NNstandard for1350INfor determining1351VVGdetermine whether1352INwhether the1353DTthe goods1354NNSgood can1355MDcan be1356VBbe sent1357VVNsend through1358INthrough the1359DTthe mail1360NNmail to1361TOto a1362DTa willing1363JJwilling buyer1364NNbuyer .1365SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1366LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Let1367VVDlet me1368PPme just1369RBjust be1370VBbe a1371DTa little1372RBlittle more1373RBRmore precise1374JJprecise .1375SENT. If1376INif ...1377:... if1378INif you1379PPyou lose1380VVPlose this1381DTthis case1382NNcase ,1383,, do1384VVPdo you1385PPyou think1386VVPthink the1387DTthe trademark1388NNtrademark office1389NNoffice would1390MDwould be1391VBbe able1392JJable to1393TOto deny1394VVdeny registration1395NNregistration to1396TOto marks1397NNSmark on1398INon the1399DTthe grounds1400NNSground that1401IN/thatthat they1402PPthey 're1403VBPbe obscene1404JJobscene ?1405SENT? [MR. STEWART]1406LOC[MR. STEWART] Well1407UHWell ,1408,, I1409PPI ...1410:... I1411PPI ...1412:... I1413PPI think1414VVPthink there1415EXthere are1416VBPbe certainly1417RBcertainly ways1418NNSway ...1419:... if1420INif the1421DTthe Court1422NPCourt struck1423VVDstrike down1424RPdown the1425DTthe statute1426NNstatute on1427INon its1428PP$its face1429NNface on1430INon the1431DTthe ground1432NNground that1433IN/thatthat it1434PPit was1435VBDbe substantially1436RBsubstantially overbroad1437NNoverbroad ,1438,, then1439RBthen ,1440,, no1441UHno ,1442,, I1443PPI do1444VVPdo n't1445RBn't think1446VVthink that1447IN/thatthat there1448EXthere is1449VBZbe any1450DTany other1451JJother provision1452NNprovision that1453IN/thatthat the1454DTthe ...1455:... of1456INof the1457DTthe Trademark1458NPTrademark Act1459NPAct .1460SENT. It1461PPit ...1462:... it1463PPit seems1464VVZseem ...1465:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1466LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well1467UHWell ,1468,, and1469CCand this1470DTthis is1471VBZbe ...1472:... as1473INas we1474PPwe established1475VVDestablish ,1476,, this1477DTthis is1478VBZbe a1479DTa facial1480JJfacial challenge1481NNchallenge ?1482SENT? [MR. STEWART]1483LOC[MR. STEWART] Right1484NPRight .1485SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1486LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Okay1487NPOkay .1488SENT. So1489RBso ,1490,, if1491INif you1492PPyou lose1493VVPlose ,1494,, then1495RBthen you1496PPyou would1497MDwould not1498RBnot be1499VBbe able1500JJable to1501TOto restrict1502VVrestrict trademarks1503NNStrademark on1504INon the1505DTthe ground1506NNground that1507IN/thatthat they1508PPthey 're1509VBPbe obscene1510JJobscene ?1511SENT? [MR. STEWART]1512LOC[MR. STEWART] I1513PPI ...1514:... I1515PPI think1516VVPthink that1517WDTthat 's1518VBZbe ...1519:... I1520PPI think1521VVPthink that1522WDTthat 's1523VBZbe correct1524JJcorrect .1525SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]1526LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] And1527CCand ...1528:... and1529CCand just1530RBjust so1531RBso I1532PPI could1533MDcould understand1534VVunderstand ,1535,, you1536PPyou 're1537VBPbe asking1538VVGask us1539PPus to1540TOto narrow1541VVnarrow this1542DTthis statute1543NNstatute to1544TOto exactly1545RBexactly what1546WPwhat ?1547SENT? [MR. STEWART]1548LOC[MR. STEWART] To1549TOTo marks1550NNSmark that1551WDTthat are1552VBPbe offensive1553JJoffensive ,1554,, shocking1555JJshocking to1556TOto a1557DTa substantial1558JJsubstantial segment1559NNsegment of1560INof the1561DTthe public1562NNpublic because1563INbecause of1564INof their1565PP$their mode1566NNmode of1567INof expression1568NNexpression ,1569,, independent1570JJindependent of1571INof any1572DTany views1573NNSview that1574IN/thatthat they1575PPthey may1576MDmay express1577VVexpress .1578SENT. And1579CCand ...1580:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]1581LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Suppose1582VVsuppose ...1583:... suppose1584VVPsuppose in1585INin the1586DTthe niche1587NNniche market1588NNmarket that1589IN/thatthat these1590DTthese goods1591NNSgood are1592VBPbe targeting1593VVGtarget ,1594,, the1595DTthe ...1596:... the1597DTthe name1598NNname is1599VBZbe ...1600:... the1601DTthe word1602NNword is1603VBZbe mainstream1604JJmainstream .1605SENT. These1606DTthese ...1607:... these1608DTthese goods1609NNSgood ,1610,, as1611INas I1612PPI understand1613VVPunderstand it1614PPit ,1615,, are1616VBPbe meant1617VVNmean to1618TOto attract1619VVattract a1620DTa particular1621JJparticular market1622NNmarket ,1623,, and1624CCand if1625INif we1626PPwe concentrate1627VVPconcentrate on1628INon that1629DTthat market1630NNmarket ,1631,, from1632INfrom their1633PP$their perception1634NNperception ,1635,, the1636DTthe word1637NNword is1638VBZbe mainstream1639JJmainstream .1640SENT. [MR. STEWART]1641LOC[MR. STEWART] I1642PPI do1643VVPdo n't1644RBn't think1645VVthink that1646WDTthat would1647MDwould be1648VBbe an1649DTan appropriate1650JJappropriate means1651NNmeans of1652INof proceeding1653NNproceeding ,1654,, and1655CCand ...1656:... and1657CCand let1658VVlet me1659PPme explain1660VVexplain why1661WRBwhy if1662INif I1663PPI may1664MDmay .1665SENT. If1666INif you1667PPyou look1668VVPlook ,1669,, for1670INfor instance1671NNinstance ,1672,, at1673INat George1674NPGeorge Carlin1675NPCarlin 's1676POS's filthy1677JJfilthy words1678NNSword monologue1679NNmonologue ,1680,, the1681DTthe monologue1682NNmonologue that1683WDTthat was1684VBDbe at1685INat issue1686NNissue in1687INin Pacifica1688NPPacifica ,1689,, that1690WDTthat 's1691VBZbe a1692DTa paradigmatic1693JJparadigmatic example1694NNexample of1695INof profane1696JJprofane copyrightable1697JJcopyrightable expression1698NNexpression .1699SENT. Now1700RBnow our1701PP$our society1702NNsociety has1703VHZhave reached1704VVNreach a1705DTa good1706JJgood accommodation1707NNaccommodation where1708WRBwhere people1709NNSpeople who1710WPwho find1711VVPfind the1712DTthe Carlin1713NPCarlin monologue1714NNmonologue funny1715JJfunny or1716CCor thought-provoking1717JJthought-provoking can1718MDcan buy1719VVbuy the1720DTthe CDs1721NNSCD ,1722,, they1723PPthey can1724MDcan buy1725VVbuy the1726DTthe DVDs1727NPDVDs ;1728:; when1729WRBwhen Carlin1730NPCarlin was1731VBDbe alive1732JJalive ,1733,, they1734PPthey could1735MDcould watch1736VVwatch live1737JJlive performances1738NNSperformance .1739SENT. All1740DTall that1741WDTthat can1742MDcan be1743VBbe done1744VVNdo without1745INwithout forcing1746VVGforce the1747DTthe profanity1748NNprofanity upon1749INupon anybody1750NNanybody who1751WPwho finds1752VVZfind it1753PPit offensive1754JJoffensive .1755SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]1756LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] But1757CCbut what1758WPwhat is1759VBZbe the1760DTthe standard1761NNstandard that1762IN/thatthat you1763PPyou 're1764VBPbe looking1765VVGlook to1766TOto ,1767,, at1768INat bottom1769NNbottom ,1770,, and1771CCand this1772DTthis is1773VBZbe framed1774VVNframe by1775INby Justice1776NPJustice Ginsburg1777NPGinsburg 's1778POS's question1779NNquestion ,1780,, is1781VBZbe ...1782:... what1783WPwhat is1784VBZbe Congress1785NPCongress 's1786POS's interest1787NNinterest ?1788SENT? Is1789VBZbe it1790PPit ...1791:... does1792VVZdo it1793PPit have1794VHhave an1795DTan independent1796JJindependent interest1797NNinterest in1798INin not1799RBnot having1800VHGhave the1801DTthe federal1802JJfederal government1803NNgovernment associated1804VVNassociate with1805INwith certain1806JJcertain words1807NNSword ?1808SENT? Or1809CCor is1810VBZbe it1811PPit just1812RBjust an1813DTan interest1814NNinterest in1815INin following1816VVGfollow whatever1817WDTwhatever the1818DTthe population1819NNpopulation thinks1820VVZthink is1821VBZbe offensive1822JJoffensive or1823CCor scandalous1824JJscandalous or1825CCor immoral1826JJimmoral at1827INat a1828DTa particular1829JJparticular point1830NNpoint in1831INin time1832NNtime ?1833SENT? [MR. STEWART]1834LOC[MR. STEWART] It1835PPit is1836VBZbe some1837RBsome of1838INof ...1839:... [JUSTICE ALITO]1840LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Those1841DTthose are1842VBPbe not1843RBnot necessarily1844RBnecessarily the1845DTthe same1846JJsame .1847SENT. [MR. STEWART]1848LOC[MR. STEWART] It1849PPit is1850VBZbe some1851DTsome of1852INof both1853DTboth ,1854,, but1855CCbut ,1856,, with1857INwith respect1858NNrespect to1859TOto ...1860:... to1861TOto the1862DTthe second1863JJsecond interest1864NNinterest ,1865,, we1866PPwe would1867MDwould emphasize1868VVemphasize the1869DTthe interest1870NNinterest is1871VBZbe in1872INin protecting1873VVGprotect unwilling1874JJunwilling viewers1875NNSviewer from1876INfrom material1877NNmaterial that1878IN/thatthat they1879PPthey find1880VVPfind offensive1881JJoffensive .1882SENT. And1883CCand the1884DTthe point1885NNpoint I1886PPI was1887VBDbe making1888VVGmake about1889INabout the1890DTthe Carlin1891NPCarlin monologue1892NNmonologue is1893VBZbe we1894PPwe ...1895:... there1896EXthere are1897VBPbe ways1898NNSway in1899INin which1900WDTwhich that1901DTthat can1902MDcan be1903VBbe made1904VVNmake readily1905RBreadily available1906JJavailable to1907TOto people1908NNSpeople who1909WPwho want1910VVPwant to1911TOto see1912VVsee it1913PPit or1914CCor who1915WPwho want1916VVPwant to1917TOto listen1918VVlisten to1919TOto it1920PPit without1921INwithout forcing1922VVGforce it1923PPit upon1924INupon others1925NNSother .1926SENT. Trademarks1927NNStrademark can1928MDcan 't1929RB't work1930VVwork that1931DTthat way1932NNway because1933INbecause the1934DTthe whole1935JJwhole point1936NNpoint of1937INof a1938DTa trademark1939NNtrademark is1940VBZbe to1941TOto serve1942VVserve as1943INas a1944DTa source1945NNsource identifier1946NNidentifier .1947SENT. It1948PPit is1949VBZbe ...1950:... [JUSTICE ALITO]1951LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Well1952UHwell ,1953,, I1954PPI ...1955:... I1956PPI do1957VVPdo n't1958RBn't see1959VVsee how1960WRBhow the1961DTthe second1962JJsecond interest1963NNinterest is1964VBZbe implicated1965VVNimplicate much1966RBmuch at1967INat all1968DTall ,1969,, because1970INbecause this1971DTthis ...1972:... this1973DTthis word1974NNword and1975CCand all1976DTall sorts1977NNSsort of1978INof other1979JJother words1980NNSword can1981MDcan be1982VBbe used1983VVNuse in1984INin connection1985NNconnection with1986INwith the1987DTthe sale1988NNsale of1989INof goods1990NNSgood .1991SENT. Even1992RBeven if1993INif you1994PPyou 're1995VBPbe right1996JJright ,1997,, they1998PPthey just1999RBjust can2000MDcan 't2001RB't be2002VBbe registered2003JJregistered trademarks2004NNStrademark .2005SENT. So2006RBso why2007WRBwhy is2008VBZbe n't2009RBn't it2010PPit exclusively2011RBexclusively the2012DTthe first2013JJfirst interest2014NNinterest ?2015SENT? [MR. STEWART]2016LOC[MR. STEWART] Well2017UHwell ,2018,, it2019PPit 's2020VBZbe ...2021:... it2022PPit ...2023:... it2024PPit 's2025VBZbe partly2026RBpartly the2027DTthe first2028JJfirst interest2029NNinterest ,2030,, but2031CCbut it2032PPit 's2033VBZbe partly2034RBpartly the2035DTthe second2036JJsecond because2037INbecause ,2038,, even2039RBeven though2040INthough the2041DTthe government2042NNgovernment cannot2043MDcan prohibit2044VVprohibit the2045DTthe use2046NNuse of2047INof a2048DTa mark2049NNmark like2050INlike this2051DTthis on2052INon the2053DTthe clothing2054NNclothing ,2055,, it2056PPit can2057MDcan attempt2058VVattempt to2059TOto disincentivize2060VVdisincentivize it2061PPit or2062CCor it2063PPit can2064MDcan attempt2065VVattempt to2066TOto remove2067VVremove the2068DTthe creation2069NNcreation ...2070:... to2071TOto avoid2072VVavoid the2073DTthe creation2074NNcreation of2075INof artificial2076JJartificial incentives2077NNSincentive to2078TOto its2079PP$its use2080NNuse by2081INby providing2082VVGprovide the2083DTthe benefits2084NNSbenefit that2085WDTthat are2086VBPbe associated2087VVNassociate with2088INwith federal2089JJfederal trademark2090NNtrademark registration2091NNregistration .2092SENT. And2093CCand the2094DTthe point2095NNpoint I2096PPI ...2097:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2098LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Why2099WRBwhy are2100VBPbe you2101PPyou resisting2102VVGresist Justice2103NPJustice Alito2104NPAlito ?2105SENT? Why2106WRBwhy can2107MDcan 't2108RB't the2109DTthe government2110NNgovernment 's2111POS's interest2112NNinterest in2113INin not2114RBnot being2115VBGbe associated2116VVNassociate with2117INwith sexually2118RBsexually explicit2119JJexplicit activity2120NNactivity or2121CCor words2122NNSword be2123VBbe enough2124JJenough ?2125SENT? [MR. STEWART]2126LOC[MR. STEWART] We2127PPwe think2128VVPthink that2129IN/thatthat it2130PPit is2131VBZbe enough2132JJenough ,2133,, but2134CCbut we2135PPwe do2136VVPdo n't2137RBn't want2138VVwant to2139TOto abandon2140VVabandon the2141DTthe ...2142:... the2143DTthe first2144JJfirst interest2145NNinterest either2146CCeither because2147INbecause we2148PPwe do2149VVPdo think2150VVthink ...2151:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2152LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Why2153WRBwhy ?2154SENT? [MR. STEWART]2155LOC[MR. STEWART] Because2156INbecause we2157PPwe ...2158:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2159LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] I'm2160NPI'm ...2161:... I'm2162NNI'm ...2163:... I2164PPI 'm2165VBPbe curious2166JJcurious because2167INbecause Justice2168NPJustice Alito2169NPAlito is2170VBZbe right2171JJright ,2172,, trademarks2173NNStrademark can2174MDcan be2175VBbe used2176VVNuse with2177INwith or2178CCor without2179INwithout registration2180NNregistration .2181SENT. You2182PPyou get2183VVPget certain2184JJcertain statutory2185JJstatutory benefits2186NNSbenefit ,2187,, which2188WDTwhich is2189VBZbe part2190NNpart of2191INof your2192PP$your government2193NNgovernment program2194NNprogram argument2195NNargument .2196SENT. [MR. STEWART]2197LOC[MR. STEWART] Right2198NPRight .2199SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2200LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] All2201DTall right2202NNright .2203SENT. But2204CCbut ...2205:... but2206CCbut I'm2207NPI'm ...2208:... I2209PPI 'm2210VBPbe just2211RBjust not2212RBnot quite2213RBquite sure2214JJsure why2215WRBwhy that2216DTthat 's2217VBZbe more2218RBRmore compelling2219JJcompelling for2220INfor you2221PPyou .2222SENT. [MR. STEWART]2223LOC[MR. STEWART] I2224PPI ...2225:... I2226PPI ...2227:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2228LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] You2229PPyou 're2230VBPbe defending2231VVGdefend it2232PPit in2233INin a2234DTa way2235NNway that2236WDTthat suggests2237VVZsuggest that2238IN/thatthat I2239PPI 'm2240VBPbe missing2241VVGmiss something2242NNsomething .2243SENT. [MR. STEWART]2244LOC[MR. STEWART] I2245PPI would2246MDwould n't2247RBn't say2248VVsay that2249IN/thatthat it2250PPit 's2251VBZbe more2252RBRmore compelling2253JJcompelling ,2254,, but2255CCbut I2256PPI would2257MDwould say2258VVsay that2259IN/thatthat the2260DTthe government2261NNgovernment has2262VHZhave an2263DTan independent2264JJindependent interest2265NNinterest in2266INin protecting2267VVGprotect unwilling2268JJunwilling viewers2269NNSviewer to2270TOto the2271DTthe extent2272NNextent possible2273JJpossible from2274INfrom materials2275NNSmaterial that2276IN/thatthat they2277PPthey find2278VVPfind ...2279:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2280LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] But2281CCbut that2282DTthat falls2283VVZfall ...2284:... that2285IN/thatthat falls2286NNSfall prey2287VVPprey to2288TOto what2289WPwhat Justice2290NPJustice Alito2291NPAlito said2292VVDsay ,2293,, which2294WDTwhich is2295VBZbe now2296RBnow the2297DTthe government2298NNgovernment is2299VBZbe moving2300VVGmove with2301INwith public2302JJpublic morals2303NNSmoral rather2304RBrather than2305INthan with2306INwith freedom2307NNfreedom of2308INof speech2309NNspeech and2310CCand the2311DTthe idea2312NNidea that2313IN/thatthat morals2314NNSmoral can2315MDcan and2316CCand should2317MDshould change2318VVchange .2319SENT. [MR. STEWART]2320LOC[MR. STEWART] Well2321UHwell ,2322,, we2323PPwe ...2324:... I2325PPI mean2326VVPmean ,2327,, we2328PPwe do2329VVPdo have2330VHhave ...2331:... in2332INin a2333DTa traditional2334JJtraditional subsidy2335NNsubsidy program2336NNprogram ,2337,, for2338INfor instance2339NNinstance ,2340,, if2341INif the2342DTthe government2343NNgovernment was2344VBDbe handing2345VVGhand out2346RPout grants2347NNSgrant for2348INfor aspiring2349JJaspiring artists2350NNSartist ,2351,, grants2352NNSgrant to2353TOto help2354VVhelp them2355PPthem ...2356:... them2357PPthem create2358VVPcreate art2359NNart ,2360,, the2361DTthe government2362NNgovernment obviously2363RBobviously could2364MDcould n't2365RBn't prohibit2366VVprohibit artists2367NNSartist from2368INfrom creating2369VVGcreate vulgar2370JJvulgar ,2371,, profane2372JJprofane art2373NNart ,2374,, art2375NNart that2376IN/thatthat a2377DTa substantial2378JJsubstantial segment2379NNsegment of2380INof the2381DTthe population2382NNpopulation would2383MDwould find2384VVfind offensive2385JJoffensive ,2386,, but2387CCbut it2388PPit might2389MDmight still2390RBstill have2391VHhave an2392DTan interest2393NNinterest in2394INin encouraging2395VVGencourage the2396DTthe creation2397NNcreation of2398INof art2399NNart that2400WDTthat would2401MDwould be2402VBbe accessible2403JJaccessible and2404CCand welcome2405JJwelcome to2406TOto all2407DTall segments2408NNSsegment of2409INof the2410DTthe community2411NNcommunity ,2412,, including2413VVGinclude to2414TOto ...2415:... to2416TOto children2417NNSchild .2418SENT. And2419CCand ,2420,, again2421RBagain ,2422,, the2423DTthe point2424NNpoint I2425PPI was2426VBDbe making2427VVGmake about2428INabout source2429NNsource identifiers2430NNSidentifier is2431VBZbe the2432DTthe reason2433NNreason that2434IN/thatthat it2435PPit 's2436VBZbe not2437RBnot feasible2438JJfeasible to2439TOto restrict2440VVrestrict source2441NNsource I2442PPI ...2443:... inspection2444NNinspection of2445INof source2446NNsource identifiers2447NNSidentifier to2448TOto people2449NNSpeople who2450WPwho want2451VVPwant the2452DTthe product2453NNproduct is2454VBZbe source2455NNsource identifiers2456NNSidentifier are2457VBPbe ...2458:... they2459PPthey 're2460VBPbe not2461RBnot the2462DTthe expression2463NNexpression that2464IN/thatthat you2465PPyou get2466VVPget once2467RBonce you2468PPyou have2469VHPhave decided2470VVNdecide to2471TOto buy2472VVbuy the2473DTthe product2474NNproduct .2475SENT. They2476PPthey are2477VBPbe one2478CDone of2479INof the2480DTthe clues2481NNSclue that2482WDTthat you2483PPyou look2484VVPlook at2485INat in2486INin deciding2487VVGdecide whether2488INwhether to2489TOto buy2490VVbuy the2491DTthe product2492NNproduct .2493SENT. And2494CCand so2495RBso a2496DTa trademark2497NNtrademark that2498IN/thatthat you2499PPyou only2500RBonly saw2501VVDsee after2502INafter you2503PPyou 'd2504VHDhave bought2505VVNbuy the2506DTthe package2507NNpackage and2508CCand opened2509VVDopen it2510PPit would2511MDwould fail2512VVfail entirely2513RBentirely to2514TOto serve2515VVserve its2516PP$its intended2517JJintended purpose2518NNpurpose .2519SENT. The2520DTthe federal2521JJfederal registration2522NNregistration program2523NNprogram is2524VBZbe intended2525VVNintend to2526TOto encourage2527VVencourage and2528CCand incentivize2529VVincentivize the2530DTthe use2531NNuse of2532INof distinctive2533JJdistinctive words2534NNSword and2535CCand symbols2536NNSsymbol that2537WDTthat will2538MDwill be2539VBbe made2540VVNmake available2541JJavailable for2542INfor inspection2543NNinspection by2544INby prospective2545JJprospective buyers2546NNSbuyer ...2547:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2548LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] How2549NPHow ...2550:... how2551WRBhow do2552VVPdo you2553PPyou ...2554:... [MR. STEWART]2555LOC[MR. STEWART] ...2556:... by2557INby members2558NNSmember ...2559:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]2560LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Excuse2561NNexcuse me2562PPme .2563SENT. How2564WRBHow do2565VVPdo you2566PPyou deal2567VVdeal with2568INwith the2569DTthe problem2570NNproblem of2571INof erratic2572JJerratic or2573CCor inconsistent2574JJinconsistent enforcement2575NNenforcement ,2576,, which2577WDTwhich seems2578VVZseem inevitable2579JJinevitable with2580INwith a2581DTa test2582NNtest of2583INof the2584DTthe kind2585NNkind you2586PPyou 're2587VBPbe articulating2588VVGarticulate ?2589SENT? [MR. STEWART]2590LOC[MR. STEWART] Well2591UHwell ,2592,, I2593PPI think2594VVPthink some2595DTsome of2596INof it2597PPit is2598VBZbe ...2599:... some2600DTsome of2601INof it2602PPit will2603MDwill be2604VBbe resolved2605VVNresolve by2606INby Tam2607NPTam ;2608:; that2609WDTthat is2610VBZbe ,2611,, to2612TOto the2613DTthe extent2614NNextent that2615IN/thatthat the2616DTthe PTO2617NPPTO had2618VHDhave previously2619RBpreviously taken2620VVNtake into2621INinto account2622NNaccount whether2623INwhether the2624DTthe views2625NNSview expressed2626VVDexpress were2627VBDbe shocking2628JJshocking or2629CCor offensive2630JJoffensive ,2631,, that2632DTthat won2633MDwill 't2634RB't be2635VBbe done2636VVNdo any2637RBany longer2638RBRlonger .2639SENT. The2640DTthe second2641JJsecond thing2642NNthing I2643PPI would2644MDwould say2645VVsay is2646VBZbe more2647JJRmore ...2648:... more2649JJRmore leeway2650NNleeway is2651VBZbe given2652VVNgive in2653INin situations2654NNSsituation ...2655:... in2656INin terms2657NNSterm of2658INof vagueness2659NNvagueness ,2660,, in2661INin situations2662NNSsituation where2663WRBwhere the2664DTthe government2665NNgovernment is2666VBZbe not2667RBnot prohibiting2668VVGprohibit speech2669NNspeech but2670CCbut is2671VBZbe simply2672RBsimply declining2673VVGdecline to2674TOto provide2675VVprovide a2676DTa benefit2677NNbenefit .2678SENT. Here2679RBhere ...2680:... here2681RBhere ,2682,, the2683DTthe consequence2684NNconsequence of2685INof the2686DTthe determination2687NNdetermination that2688IN/thatthat Mr2689NPMr .2690SENT. Brunetti2691NPBrunetti 's2692POS's mark2693NNmark was2694VBDbe scandalous2695JJscandalous was2696VBDbe not2697RBnot that2698IN/thatthat he2699PPhe was2700VBDbe subjected2701VVNsubject to2702TOto any2703DTany penalty2704NNpenalty ,2705,, he2706PPhe could2707MDcould continue2708VVcontinue to2709TOto market2710VVmarket his2711PP$his goods2712NNSgood in2713INin commerce2714NNcommerce with2715INwith the2716DTthe ...2717:... the2718DTthe trademark2719NNtrademark he2720PPhe had2721VHDhave been2722VBNbe using2723VVGuse .2724SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]2725LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] But2726CCbut ,2727,, if2728INif I2729PPI understand2730VVPunderstand what2731WPwhat you2732PPyou 're2733VBPbe saying2734VVGsay ,2735,, Mr2736NPMr .2737SENT. Stewart2738NPStewart ,2739,, you2740PPyou 're2741VBPbe essentially2742RBessentially saying2743VVGsay we2744PPwe should2745MDshould uphold2746VVuphold this2747DTthis statute2748NNstatute on2749INon the2750DTthe basis2751NNbasis of2752INof various2753JJvarious commitments2754NNScommitment that2755IN/thatthat the2756DTthe government2757NNgovernment is2758VBZbe now2759RBnow making2760VVGmake to2761TOto apply2762VVapply this2763DTthis statute2764NNstatute to2765TOto only2766RBonly a2767DTa small2768JJsmall subset2769NNsubset of2770INof the2771DTthe things2772NNSthing that2773IN/thatthat it2774PPit could2775MDcould apply2776VVapply to2777TOto ,2778,, if2779INif you2780PPyou look2781VVPlook at2782INat it2783PPit on2784INon its2785PP$its face2786NNface as2787RBas to2788TOto just2789RBjust the2790DTthe words2791NNSword used2792VVDuse .2793SENT. And2794CCand ...2795:... and2796CCand that2797DTthat 's2798VBZbe a2799DTa strange2800JJstrange thing2801NNthing for2802INfor us2803PPus to2804TOto do2805VVdo ,2806,, is2807VBZbe n't2808RBn't it2809PPit ,2810,, to2811TOto basically2812RBbasically ,2813,, you2814PPyou know2815VVPknow ,2816,, take2817VVPtake your2818PP$your commitment2819NNcommitment that2820IN/thatthat ,2821,, look2822VVlook ,2823,, these2824DTthese are2825VBPbe very2826RBvery broad2827JJbroad words2828NNSword ,2829,, but2830CCbut we2831PPwe 're2832VBPbe going2833VVGgo to2834TOto pretend2835VVpretend that2836IN/thatthat they2837PPthey say2838VVPsay something2839NNsomething much2840RBmuch narrower2841JJRnarrow than2842INthan they2843PPthey do2844VVPdo ?2845SENT? [MR. STEWART]2846LOC[MR. STEWART] Well2847UHwell ,2848,, I2849PPI think2850VVPthink even2851RBeven up2852RBup to2853TOto this2854DTthis point2855NNpoint ,2856,, the2857DTthe core2858NNcore of2859INof the2860DTthe provision2861NNprovision as2862INas the2863DTthe PTO2864NPPTO has2865VHZhave applied2866VVNapply it2867PPit has2868VHZhave been2869VBNbe profane2870JJprofane ,2871,, vulgar2872JJvulgar ,2873,, vulgar2874JJvulgar words2875NNSword ,2876,, sexually2877RBsexually explicit2878JJexplicit images2879NNSimage ,2880,, offensive2881JJoffensive excretory2882JJexcretory references2883NNSreference ,2884,, things2885NNSthing that2886WDTthat were2887VBDbe regarded2888VVNregard as2889INas offensive2890NNoffensive .2891SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]2892LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] How2893WRBHow can2894MDcan ...2895:... how2896WRBhow can2897MDcan one2898PPone say2899VVPsay that2900IN/thatthat when2901WRBwhen many2902JJmany of2903INof these2904DTthese marks2905NNSmark have2906VHPhave been2907VBNbe refused2908VVNrefuse registration2909NNregistration on2910INon dual2911JJdual grounds2912NNSground ,2913,, and2914CCand one2915CDone ground2916NNground is2917VBZbe that2918IN/thatthat they2919PPthey 're2920VBPbe scandalous2921JJscandalous and2922CCand the2923DTthe other2924JJother ground2925NNground is2926VBZbe that2927IN/thatthat they2928PPthey resemble2929VVPresemble a2930DTa mark2931NNmark that2932WDTthat is2933VBZbe already2934RBalready registered2935VVNregister ,2936,, so2937RBso ,2938,, if2939INif the2940DTthe mark2941NNmark is2942VBZbe already2943RBalready registered2944VVNregister ,2945,, then2946RBthen it2947PPit 's2948VBZbe not2949RBnot scandalous2950JJscandalous .2951SENT. [MR. STEWART]2952LOC[MR. STEWART] I2953PPI ...2954:... I2955PPI think2956VVPthink it2957PPit 's2958VBZbe anomalous2959JJanomalous at2960INat first2961JJfirst glance2962NNglance ,2963,, but2964CCbut I2965PPI do2966VVPdo n't2967RBn't think2968VVthink that2969IN/thatthat there2970EXthere 's2971VBZbe a2972DTa logical2973JJlogical contradiction2974NNcontradiction because2975INbecause the2976DTthe Lanham2977NPLanham Act2978NPAct does2979VVZdo n't2980RBn't simply2981RBsimply prohibit2982VVprohibit registration2983NNregistration of2984INof marks2985NNSmark that2986WDTthat are2987VBPbe identical2988JJidentical to2989TOto a2990DTa ...2991:... an2992DTan existing2993JJexisting mark2994NNmark .2995SENT. As2996INas you2997PPyou say2998VVPsay ,2999,, it3000PPit prohibits3001VVZprohibit registration3002NNregistration of3003INof marks3004NNSmark that3005WDTthat are3006VBPbe confusingly3007RBconfusingly similar3008JJsimilar to3009TOto existing3010JJexisting marks3011NNSmark .3012SENT. And3013CCand it3014PPit 's3015VBZbe ...3016:... it3017PPit 's3018VBZbe logically3019RBlogically possible3020JJpossible to3021TOto have3022VHhave two3023CDtwo marks3024NNSmark ,3025,, one3026CDone of3027INof which3028WDTwhich falls3029VVZfall ...3030:... both3031CCboth of3032INof which3033WDTwhich fall3034VVPfall very3035RBvery close3036VVclose to3037TOto the3038DTthe line3039NNline ...3040:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3041LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Well3042UHWell ,3043,, but3044RBbut ,3045,, Mister3046NPMister ...3047:... [MR. STEWART]3048LOC[MR. STEWART] ...3049:... one3050CDone of3051INof which3052WDTwhich is3053VBZbe barely3054RBbarely scandalous3055JJscandalous ...3056:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3057LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...3058:... but3059CCbut ,3060,, Mister3061NPMister ...3062:... [JUSTICE ALITO]3063LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] But3064CCbut this3065DTthis is3066VBZbe ...3067:... if3068INif this3069DTthis ...3070:... [MR. STEWART]3071LOC[MR. STEWART] ...3072:... the3073DTthe other3074JJother ...3075:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3076LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Mr3077NPMr .3078SENT. Stewart3079NPStewart ,3080,, though3081RBthough ...3082:... [JUSTICE ALITO]3083LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Go3084VVgo ahead3085RBahead .3086SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3087LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Justice3088NPJustice Ginsburg3089NPGinsburg 's3090POS's point3091NNpoint takes3092VVZtake us3093PPus back3094RBback to3095TOto Justice3096NPJustice Kavanaugh's3097NPKavanaugh's ,3098,, I3099PPI think3100VVPthink ,3101,, which3102WDTwhich is3103VBZbe you3104PPyou look3105VVPlook at3106INat the3107DTthe ...3108:... the3109DTthe seven3110CDseven words3111NNSword at3112INat the3113DTthe end3114NNend of3115INof the3116DTthe red3117JJred brief3118NNbrief and3119CCand there3120EXthere are3121VBPbe shocking3122JJshocking numbers3123NNSnumber of3124INof ones3125NNSone granted3126VVNgrant and3127CCand ones3128NNSone refused3129VVDrefuse that3130DTthat ...3131:... that3132WDTthat do3133VVPdo look3134VVlook remarkably3135RBremarkably similar3136JJsimilar .3137SENT. How3138WRBHow is3139VBZbe a3140DTa reasonable3141JJreasonable citizen3142NNcitizen supposed3143VVNsuppose to3144TOto know3145VVknow ?3146SENT? What3147WPWhat notice3148NNnotice do3149VVPdo they3150PPthey have3151VHPhave about3152RBabout how3153WRBhow the3154DTthe government3155NNgovernment 's3156VBZbe going3157VVGgo to3158TOto treat3159VVtreat their3160PP$their mark3161NNmark ?3162SENT? [MR. STEWART]3163LOC[MR. STEWART] Well3164UHWell ,3165,, I3166PPI ...3167:... I3168PPI think3169VVPthink one3170PPone of3171INof the3172DTthe ...3173:... I3174PPI think3175VVPthink the3176DTthe notice3177NNnotice is3178VBZbe in3179INin ...3180:... in3181INin part3182NNpart the3183DTthe ...3184:... based3185VVNbase on3186INon the3187DTthe PTO3188NPPTO decisions3189NNSdecision ,3190,, but3191CCbut ,3192,, obviously3193RBobviously ,3194,, whatever3195WDTwhatever the3196DTthe Court3197NPCourt says3198VVZsay ,3199,, if3200INif it3201PPit upheld3202VVDuphold the3203DTthe provision3204NNprovision ,3205,, the3206DTthe Court3207NPCourt can3208MDcan say3209VVsay what3210WPwhat it3211PPit wants3212VVZwant to3213TOto say3214VVsay about3215INabout the3216DTthe permissible3217NNpermissible ...3218:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3219LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] No3220UHNo ,3221,, no3222UHno ,3223,, but3224CCbut let3225VVlet me3226PPme ...3227:... we3228PPwe ...3229:... we3230PPwe can3231MDcan fix3232VVfix your3233PP$your problem3234NNproblem for3235INfor you3236PPyou ,3237,, I3238PPI got3239VVDget that3240RBthat .3241SENT. But3242CCbut ...3243:... but3244RBbut ...3245:... but3246CCbut the3247DTthe government3248NNgovernment ,3249,, presumably3250RBpresumably ,3251,, the3252DTthe PTO3253NPPTO is3254VBZbe supposed3255VVNsuppose to3256TOto be3257VBbe doing3258VVGdo this3259DTthis itself3260PPitself and3261CCand without3262INwithout our3263PP$our interference3264NNinterference .3265SENT. And3266CCand it3267PPit 's3268VHZhave allowed3269VVNallow a3270DTa lot3271NNlot of3272INof marks3273NNSmark with3274INwith these3275DTthese words3276NNSword ,3277,, and3278CCand it3279PPit 's3280VHZhave refused3281VVNrefuse a3282DTa lot3283NNlot of3284INof marks3285NNSmark without3286INwithout these3287DTthese words3288NNSword .3289SENT. I3290PPI could3291MDcould not3292RBnot myself3293PPmyself see3294VVPsee a3295DTa rational3296JJrational line3297NNline through3298INthrough that3299DTthat chart3300NNchart at3301INat the3302DTthe end3303NNend of3304INof the3305DTthe red3306JJred brief3307NNbrief .3308SENT. Is3309VBZbe there3310RBthere one3311CDone that3312WDTthat the3313DTthe government3314NNgovernment 's3315VBZbe aware3316JJaware of3317INof or3318CCor ...3319:... [MR. STEWART]3320LOC[MR. STEWART] Well3321UHwell ,3322,, I3323PPI think3324VVPthink ,3325,, in3326INin part3327NNpart ,3328,, the3329DTthe PTO3330NPPTO looks3331VVZlook to3332TOto context3333NNcontext .3334SENT. And3335CCand a3336DTa ...3337:... a3338DTa lot3339NNlot of3340INof the3341DTthe examples3342NNSexample that3343WDTthat are3344VBPbe given3345VVNgive of3346INof confusing3347JJconfusing ...3348:... of3349INof similar3350JJsimilar marks3351NNSmark ,3352,, one3353CDone of3354INof which3355WDTwhich is3356VBZbe refused3357VVNrefuse registration3358NNregistration ,3359,, one3360CDone of3361INof which3362WDTwhich is3363VBZbe granted3364VVNgrant registration3365NNregistration ,3366,, are3367VBPbe marks3368NNSmark in3369INin which3370WDTwhich people3371NNSpeople will3372MDwill use3373VVuse a3374DTa slightly3375RBslightly different3376JJdifferent combination3377NNcombination of3378INof letters3379NNSletter that3380WDTthat phonetically3381RBphonetically evokes3382VVZevoke an3383DTan existing3384JJexisting profane3385JJprofane word3386NNword .3387SENT. So3388RBso you3389PPyou have3390VHPhave marks3391NNSmark that3392WDTthat use3393VVPuse the3394DTthe letters3395NNSletter P-H-U-C3396NNP-H-U-C ...3397:... and3398CCand the3399DTthe PTO3400NPPTO will3401MDwill ,3402,, in3403INin part3404NNpart ,3405,, examine3406VVexamine context3407NNcontext in3408INin order3409NNorder to3410TOto determine3411VVdetermine is3412VBZbe that3413IN/thatthat mark3414NNmark intended3415VVNintend ...3416:... will3417MDwill it3418PPit be3419VBbe ...3420:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3421LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I3422PPI do3423VVPdo n't3424RBn't want3425VVwant to3426TOto ...3427:... I3428PPI do3429VVPdo n't3430RBn't want3431VVwant to3432TOto go3433VVgo through3434INthrough the3435DTthe examples3436NNSexample .3437SENT. I3438PPI really3439RBreally do3440VVPdo n't3441RBn't want3442VVwant to3443TOto do3444VVdo that3445DTthat .3446SENT. [3447SYM[ LAUGHTER3448NNlaughter ]3449SYM] [JUSTICE GORSUCH]3450LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] But3451CCbut I3452PPI can3453MDcan come3454VVcome up3455RPup with3456INwith several3457JJseveral that3458WDTthat are3459VBPbe granted3460VVNgrant that3461RBthat ...3462:... that3463WDTthat have3464VHPhave ...3465:... have3466VHPhave phonetics3467NNSphonetics along3468INalong the3469DTthe lines3470NNSline you3471PPyou 've3472VHPhave described3473VVNdescribe and3474CCand a3475DTa couple3476NNcouple that3477WDTthat have3478VHPhave been3479VBNbe denied3480VVNdeny .3481SENT. And3482CCand what3483WPwhat 's3484VBZbe the3485DTthe rational3486JJrational line3487NNline ?3488SENT? How3489WRBHow is3490VBZbe a3491DTa person3492NNperson ...3493:... a3494DTa person3495NNperson who3496WPwho wants3497VVZwant to3498TOto get3499VVget a3500DTa mark3501NNmark supposed3502VVNsuppose to3503TOto tell3504VVtell what3505WPwhat the3506DTthe PTO3507NPPTO is3508VBZbe going3509VVGgo to3510TOto do3511VVdo ?3512SENT? Is3513VBZbe it3514PPit a3515DTa flip3516NNflip of3517INof the3518DTthe coin3519NNcoin ?3520SENT? [MR. STEWART]3521LOC[MR. STEWART] I3522PPI guess3523VVPguess the3524DTthe two3525CDtwo things3526NNSthing I3527PPI would3528MDwould say3529VVsay are3530VBPbe ,3531,, first3532RBfirst ,3533,, the3534DTthe PTO3535NPPTO looks3536VVZlook to3537TOto context3538NNcontext .3539SENT. And3540CCand so3541RBso ,3542,, if3543INif a3544DTa phonetic3545JJphonetic word3546NNword like3547INlike the3548DTthe one3549CDone I3550PPI described3551VVDdescribe appears3552VVZappear in3553INin a3554DTa sentence3555NNsentence or3556CCor in3557INin a3558DTa phrase3559NNphrase in3560INin which3561WDTwhich the3562DTthe profane3563JJprofane word3564NNword would3565MDwould commonly3566RBcommonly appear3567VVappear ,3568,, the3569DTthe PTO3570NPPTO is3571VBZbe more3572RBRmore likely3573JJlikely to3574TOto conclude3575VVconclude that3576IN/thatthat a3577DTa substantial3578JJsubstantial segment3579NNsegment of3580INof the3581DTthe public3582NNpublic will3583MDwill regard3584VVregard that3585IN/thatthat as3586INas the3587DTthe equivalent3588NNequivalent of3589INof the3590DTthe profane3591JJprofane mark3592NNmark because3593INbecause it3594PPit is3595VBZbe being3596VBGbe used3597VVNuse in3598INin the3599DTthe way3600NNway that3601IN/thatthat the3602DTthe profane3603JJprofane mark3604NNmark is3605VBZbe often3606RBoften used3607VVNuse .3608SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]3609LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] What3610WPWhat 's3611VBZbe going3612VVGgo to3613TOto ...3614:... if3615INif this3616DTthis is3617VBZbe held3618VVNhold to3619TOto be3620VBbe unconstitutional3621JJunconstitutional ,3622,, what3623WPwhat is3624VBZbe going3625VVGgo to3626TOto happen3627VVhappen with3628INwith whatever3629WDTwhatever list3630NNlist of3631INof really3632RBreally dirty3633JJdirty words3634NNSword still3635RBstill exist3636VVPexist and3637CCand all3638DTall of3639INof their3640PP$their variations3641NNSvariation ?3642SENT? There3643EXthere 's3644VBZbe going3645VVGgo to3646TOto be3647VBbe a3648DTa mad3649JJmad scramble3650NNscramble by3651INby people3652NNSpeople to3653TOto register3654VVregister these3655DTthese marks3656NNSmark .3657SENT. And3658CCand the3659DTthe ones3660NNSone who3661WPwho get3662VVPget there3663EXthere first3664RBfirst are3665VBPbe going3666VVGgo to3667TOto have3668VHhave exclusive3669JJexclusive ...3670:... they3671PPthey 're3672VBPbe not3673RBnot unlimited3674JJunlimited .3675SENT. What3676WPWhat 's3677VBZbe going3678VVGgo to3679TOto ...3680:... there3681EXthere 's3682VBZbe going3683VVGgo to3684TOto be3685VBbe ...3686:... those3687DTthose who3688WPwho get3689VVPget there3690EXthere first3691RBfirst are3692VBPbe going3693VVGgo to3694TOto be3695VBbe the3696DTthe ones3697NNSone who3698WPwho have3699VHPhave these3700DTthese .3701SENT. [MR. STEWART]3702LOC[MR. STEWART] I3703PPI mean3704VVPmean ,3705,, there3706RBthere ...3707:... there3708EXthere are3709VBPbe other3710JJother barriers3711NNSbarrier to3712TOto trademark3713NNtrademark registration3714NNregistration .3715SENT. That3716DTthat is3717VBZbe ,3718,, it3719PPit 's3720VBZbe not3721RBnot the3722DTthe case3723NNcase that3724IN/thatthat any3725DTany non-scandalous3726JJnon-scandalous word3727NNword could3728MDcould be3729VBbe trademarked3730VVNtrademark .3731SENT. It3732PPit has3733VHZhave to3734TOto be3735VBbe the3736DTthe ...3737:... the3738DTthe sort3739NNsort of3740INof word3741NNword or3742CCor the3743DTthe sort3744NNsort of3745INof phrase3746NNphrase ,3747,, if3748INif it3749PPit 's3750VBZbe ...3751:... if3752INif it3753PPit 's3754VBZbe verbal3755JJverbal ,3756,, that3757IN/thatthat consumers3758NNSconsumer would3759MDwould perceive3760VVperceive as3761INas identifying3762VVGidentify the3763DTthe source3764NNsource .3765SENT. And3766CCand so3767RBso short3768JJshort phrases3769NNSphrase or3770CCor slogans3771NNSslogan are3772VBPbe often3773RBoften refused3774VVNrefuse registration3775NNregistration on3776INon the3777DTthe grounds3778NNSground that3779IN/thatthat they3780PPthey would3781MDwould be3782VBbe seen3783VVNsee by3784INby consumers3785NNSconsumer as3786INas communicating3787VVGcommunicate a3788DTa thought3789NNthought ,3790,, not3791RBnot as3792INas identifying3793VVGidentify the3794DTthe source3795NNsource of3796INof goods3797NNSgood .3798SENT. And3799CCand there3800EXthere is3801VBZbe also3802RBalso the3803DTthe requirement3804NNrequirement that3805IN/thatthat people3806NNSpeople who3807WPwho want3808VVPwant to3809TOto register3810VVregister their3811PP$their trademarks3812NNStrademark be3813VBbe using3814VVGuse the3815DTthe mark3816NNmark in3817INin commerce3818NNcommerce ;3819:; a3820DTa person3821NNperson can3822MDcan 't3823RB't simply3824RBsimply register3825VVregister a3826DTa mark3827NNmark and3828CCand sit3829VVsit back3830RBback and3831CCand wait3832VVwait for3833INfor people3834NNSpeople to3835TOto pay3836VVpay license3837NNlicense fees3838NNSfee in3839INin order3840NNorder to3841TOto ...3842:... people3843NNSpeople who3844WPwho want3845VVPwant to3846TOto actually3847RBactually use3848VVuse it3849PPit in3850INin commerce3851NNcommerce ,3852,, to3853TOto pay3854VVpay license3855NNlicense fees3856NNSfee .3857SENT. It3858PPit is3859VBZbe a3860DTa prerequisite3861NNprerequisite that3862IN/thatthat they3863PPthey be3864VBbe using3865VVGuse the3866DTthe mark3867NNmark in3868INin commerce3869NNcommerce .3870SENT. So3871RBso there3872EXthere are3873VBPbe some3874DTsome limitations3875NNSlimitation ,3876,, but3877CCbut ,3878,, yes3879UHyes ,3880,, you3881PPyou would3882MDwould think3883VVthink the3884DTthe natural3885JJnatural result3886NNresult of3887INof allowing3888VVGallow these3889DTthese marks3890NNSmark to3891TOto be3892VBbe registered3893VVNregister is3894VBZbe that3895IN/thatthat there3896EXthere would3897MDwould be3898VBbe an3899DTan increased3900VVNincrease flow3901NNflow of3902INof registration3903NNregistration applications3904NNSapplication .3905SENT. And3906CCand ,3907,, again3908RBagain ,3909,, this3910DTthis is3911VBZbe not3912RBnot just3913RBjust for3914INfor words3915NNSword ,3916,, this3917DTthis is3918VBZbe for3919INfor visual3920JJvisual depictions3921NNSdepiction that3922WDTthat are3923VBPbe intended3924VVNintend to3925TOto signify3926VVsignify the3927DTthe source3928NNsource of3929INof a3930DTa product3931NNproduct .3932SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]3933LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] What3934WPWhat about3935RBabout racial3936JJracial slurs3937NNSslur ?3938SENT? [MR. STEWART]3939LOC[MR. STEWART] I3940PPI think3941VVPthink ,3942,, in3943INin general3944JJgeneral ,3945,, racial3946JJracial slurs3947NNSslur are3948VBPbe taken3949VVNtake off3950INoff the3951DTthe table3952NNtable by3953INby Tam3954NPTam ,3955,, because3956INbecause it3957PPit is3958VBZbe the3959DTthe ...3960:... [JUSTICE BREYER]3961LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Because3962INbecause I3963PPI ...3964:... I3965PPI 've3966VHPhave looked3967VVNlook into3968INinto a3969DTa little3970JJlittle ,3971,, and3972CCand there3973EXthere are3974VBPbe certain3975JJcertain ones3976NNSone that3977WDTthat have3978VHPhave exactly3979RBexactly the3980DTthe same3981JJsame physiological3982JJphysiological effect3983NNeffect on3984INon a3985DTa person3986NNperson ,3987,, if3988INif any3989DTany ,3990,, as3991INas the3992DTthe word3993NNword we3994PPwe 're3995VBPbe using3996VVGuse here3997RBhere ,3998,, and3999CCand there4000EXthere is4001VBZbe a4002DTa physiological4003JJphysiological effect4004NNeffect .4005SENT. [MR. STEWART]4006LOC[MR. STEWART] I4007PPI ...4008:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4009LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] There4010EXthere is4011VBZbe a4012DTa ...4013:... it4014PPit 's4015VBZbe stored4016VVNstore in4017INin a4018DTa different4019JJdifferent place4020NNplace in4021INin the4022DTthe brain4023NNbrain .4024SENT. It4025PPit leads4026VVZlead to4027TOto retention4028NNretention of4029INof the4030DTthe word4031NNword .4032SENT. There4033EXthere are4034VBPbe lots4035NNSlot of4036INof physiological4037JJphysiological effect4038NNeffect with4039INwith very4040RBvery few4041JJfew words4042NNSword .4043SENT. It4044PPit 's4045VBZbe not4046RBnot too4047RBtoo hard4048JJhard ...4049:... [MR. STEWART]4050LOC[MR. STEWART] I4051PPI ...4052:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4053LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...4054:... to4055TOto think4056VVthink of4057INof a4058DTa racial4059JJracial slur4060NNslur that4061WDTthat has4062VHZhave exactly4063RBexactly the4064DTthe same4065JJsame effect4066NNeffect .4067SENT. [MR. STEWART]4068LOC[MR. STEWART] Agreed4069VVDagree .4070SENT. I4071PPI think4072VVPthink there4073EXthere is4074VBZbe one4075CDone racial4076JJracial slur4077NNslur in4078INin particular4079NNparticular that4080WDTthat would4081MDwould be4082VBbe a4083DTa close4084JJclose call4085NNcall even4086RBeven under4087INunder our4088PP$our basic4089JJbasic framework4090NNframework of4091INof you4092PPyou can4093MDcan 't4094RB't deny4095VVPdeny registration4096NNregistration based4097VVNbase on4098INon the4099DTthe views4100NNSview expressed4101VVDexpress ,4102,, but4103CCbut you4104PPyou can4105MDcan deny4106VVdeny it4107PPit based4108VVNbase on4109INon the4110DTthe mode4111NNmode of4112INof expression4113NNexpression .4114SENT. You4115PPyou could4116MDcould say4117VVsay this4118DTthis particular4119JJparticular racial4120JJracial slur4121NNslur is4122VBZbe considered4123VVNconsider uniquely4124RBuniquely offensive4125JJoffensive ,4126,, even4127RBeven as4128RBas compared4129VVNcompare to4130TOto other4131JJother racist4132JJracist speech4133NNspeech ,4134,, and4135CCand ,4136,, therefore4137RBtherefore ,4138,, it4139PPit could4140MDcould be4141VBbe denied4142VVNdeny registration4143NNregistration on4144INon the4145DTthe ground4146NNground that4147IN/thatthat it4148PPit was4149VBDbe an4150DTan impermissible4151JJimpermissible mode4152NNmode of4153INof expressing4154VVGexpress a4155DTa racist4156NNracist ...4157:... racist4158JJracist thought4159NNthought .4160SENT. On4161INon the4162DTthe other4163JJother hand4164NNhand ,4165,, you4166PPyou could4167MDcould argue4168VVargue ,4169,, at4170INat bottom4171NNbottom ,4172,, the4173DTthe reason4174NNreason that4175IN/thatthat this4176DTthis slur4177NNslur is4178VBZbe regarded4179VVNregard as4180INas so4181RBso offensive4182JJoffensive is4183VBZbe that4184IN/thatthat it4185PPit is4186VBZbe ...4187:... has4188VHZhave historically4189RBhistorically been4190VBNbe linked4191VVNlink to4192TOto virulent4193JJvirulent racist4194JJracist attitudes4195NNSattitude ,4196,, and4197CCand for4198INfor that4199DTthat reason4200NNreason ,4201,, it4202PPit all4203RBall comes4204VVZcome down4205RPdown to4206TOto viewpoint4207NNviewpoint .4208SENT. We4209PPwe think4210VVPthink that4211IN/thatthat would4212MDwould be4213VBbe an4214DTan ...4215:... an4216DTan authentically4217RBauthentically close4218JJclose case4219NNcase even4220RBeven under4221INunder the4222DTthe ...4223:... the4224DTthe framework4225NNframework that4226IN/thatthat we4227PPwe 've4228VHPhave established4229VVNestablish .4230SENT. But4231CCbut ,4232,, again4233RBagain ,4234,, there4235EXthere 's4236VBZbe ...4237:... there4238EXthere 's4239VBZbe no4240DTno sense4241NNsense in4242INin which4243WDTwhich the4244DTthe mark4245NNmark that4246WDTthat is4247VBZbe at4248INat issue4249NNissue here4250RBhere could4251MDcould be4252VBbe considered4253VVNconsider offensive4254JJoffensive because4255INbecause of4256INof any4257DTany view4258NNview it4259PPit has4260VHZhave expressed4261VVNexpress ,4262,, that4263IN/thatthat really4264RBreally ...4265:... really4266RBreally the4267DTthe argument4268NNargument on4269INon the4270DTthe other4271JJother side4272NNside is4273VBZbe more4274RBRmore it4275PPit is4276VBZbe n't4277RBn't offensive4278JJoffensive at4279INat all4280DTall ,4281,, not4282RBnot it4283PPit is4284VBZbe offensive4285JJoffensive because4286INbecause it4287PPit is4288VBZbe perceived4289VVNperceive as4290INas communicating4291VVGcommunicate a4292DTa particular4293JJparticular message4294NNmessage .4295SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]4296LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] What4297WPWhat about4298RBabout Mr4299NPMr .4300SENT. Brunetti4301NPBrunetti 's4302POS's argument4303NNargument that4304IN/thatthat the4305DTthe use4306NNuse of4307INof the4308DTthe word4309NNword expresses4310VVZexpress a4311DTa viewpoint4312NNviewpoint precisely4313RBprecisely because4314INbecause of4315INof its4316PP$its offensiveness4317NNoffensiveness ?4318SENT? You4319PPyou know4320VVPknow ,4321,, it4322PPit 's4323VBZbe edgy4324JJedgy ,4325,, it4326PPit expresses4327VVZexpress a4328DTa non-conformist4329NNnon-conformist attitude4330NNattitude ,4331,, all4332RBall of4333INof that4334DTthat ?4335SENT? [MR. STEWART]4336LOC[MR. STEWART] I4337PPI ...4338:... I4339PPI do4340VVPdo n't4341RBn't deny4342VVdeny that4343IN/thatthat that4344WDTthat might4345MDmight be4346VBbe a4347DTa reason4348NNreason that4349IN/thatthat people4350NNSpeople would4351MDwould use4352VVuse profanity4353NNprofanity in4354INin certain4355JJcertain circumstances4356NNScircumstance ,4357,, but4358CCbut I4359PPI think4360VVPthink if4361INif that4362WDTthat were4363VBDbe treated4364VVNtreat as4365INas a4366DTa form4367NNform of4368INof viewpoint4369NNviewpoint discrimination4370NNdiscrimination ,4371,, it4372PPit would4373MDwould really4374RBreally cast4375VVcast doubt4376NNdoubt on4377INon a4378DTa lot4379NNlot of4380INof other4381JJother practices4382NNSpractice .4383SENT. For4384INfor example4385NNexample ,4386,, we've4387NNwe've ...4388:... we4389PPwe 've4390VHPhave indicated4391VVNindicate in4392RPin ...4393:... in4394INin our4395PP$our brief4396NNbrief that4397IN/thatthat ,4398,, under4399INunder Mr4400NPMr .4401SENT. Brunetti4402NPBrunetti 's4403POS's theory4404NNtheory ,4405,, if4406INif the4407DTthe government4408NNgovernment had4409VHDhave ...4410:... if4411INif ...4412:... if4413INif a4414DTa municipal4415JJmunicipal government4416NNgovernment operated4417VVDoperate buses4418NNSbus and4419CCand rented4420VVNrent out4421INout advertising4422NNadvertising on4423INon the4424DTthe buses4425NNSbus but4426CCbut precluded4427VVNpreclude the4428DTthe use4429NNuse of4430INof profanity4431NNprofanity on4432INon the4433DTthe advertisements4434NNSadvertisement ,4435,, if4436INif the4437DTthe use4438NNuse ...4439:... if4440INif ...4441:... an4442DTan applicant4443NNapplicant could4444MDcould say4445VVsay ,4446,, as4447INas Mr4448NPMr .4449SENT. Brunetti4450NPBrunetti is4451VBZbe saying4452VVGsay ,4453,, I4454PPI want4455VVPwant to4456TOto use4457VVuse profanity4458NNprofanity because4459INbecause it4460PPit communicates4461VVZcommunicate an4462DTan edgy4463JJedgy message4464NNmessage ,4465,, and4466CCand I4467PPI think4468VVPthink the4469DTthe government4470NNgovernment legitimately4471RBlegitimately should4472MDshould be4473VBbe able4474JJable to4475TOto say4476VVsay that4477WDTthat may4478MDmay or4479CCor may4480MDmay not4481RBnot be4482VBbe so4483RBso ,4484,, but4485CCbut we4486PPwe do4487VVPdo n't4488RBn't want4489VVwant profanity4490NNprofanity on4491INon our4492PP$our buses4493NNSbus where4494WRBwhere they4495PPthey 're4496VBPbe visible4497JJvisible to4498TOto unconsenting4499NNunconsenting adults4500NNSadult and4501CCand children4502NNSchild ,4503,, we4504PPwe do4505VVPdo n't4506RBn't want4507VVwant that4508DTthat word4509NNword on4510INon our4511PP$our buses4512NNSbus regardless4513RBregardless of4514INof the4515DTthe message4516NNmessage that4517IN/thatthat you4518PPyou intend4519VVPintend to4520TOto convey4521VVconvey .4522SENT. And4523CCand we4524PPwe think4525VVPthink that4526IN/thatthat would4527MDwould be4528VBbe sufficient4529JJsufficient to4530TOto make4531VVmake the4532DTthe ...4533:... the4534DTthe provision4535NNprovision viewpoint-neutral4536NNviewpoint-neutral .4537SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4538LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Well4539UHwell ,4540,, you4541PPyou keep4542VVPkeep talking4543VVGtalk about4544INabout this4545DTthis as4546INas a4547DTa government4548NNgovernment program4549NNprogram .4550SENT. [MR. STEWART]4551LOC[MR. STEWART] Uh-huh4552NPUh-huh .4553SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4554LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] And4555CCand Tam4556NPTam addresses4557VVZaddress this4558DTthis and4559CCand says4560VVZsay it4561PPit 's4562VBZbe an4563DTan odd4564JJodd government4565NNgovernment program4566NNprogram because4567INbecause people4568NNSpeople are4569VBPbe paying4570VVGpay you4571PPyou to4572TOto give4573VVgive the4574DTthe service4575NNservice ;4576:; you4577PPyou 're4578VBPbe not4579RBnot giving4580VVGgive them4581PPthem much4582JJmuch of4583INof anything4584NNanything except4585INexcept legal4586JJlegal rights4587NNSright ,4588,, which4589WDTwhich are4590VBPbe not4591RBnot unimportant4592JJunimportant .4593SENT. But4594CCbut I4595PPI 'm4596VBPbe not4597RBnot sure4598JJsure how4599WRBhow to4600TOto differentiate4601VVdifferentiate this4602DTthis from4603INfrom a4604DTa limited4605JJlimited public4606JJpublic forum4607NNforum ,4608,, as4609INas we4610PPwe recognized4611VVDrecognize in4612INin Cornelius4613NPCornelius ,4614,, because4615RBbecause ,4616,, as4617RBas in4618INin Cornelius4619NPCornelius ,4620,, registrants4621NNSregistrant can4622MDcan go4623VVgo out4624RPout and4625CCand use4626VVuse the4627DTthe trademark4628NNtrademark ,4629,, they4630PPthey could4631MDcould have4632VHhave sought4633VVNseek donations4634NNSdonation from4635INfrom whomever4636WPwhomever they4637PPthey wanted4638VVDwant in4639INin Cornelius4640NPCornelius ,4641,, and4642CCand yet4643RByet we4644PPwe talked4645VVDtalk and4646CCand we4647PPwe held4648VVDhold that4649IN/thatthat the4650DTthe list4651NNlist of4652INof ...4653:... of4654INof ...4655:... of4656INof organizations4657NNSorganization was4658VBDbe the4659DTthe forum4660NNforum .4661SENT. You4662PPyou have4663VHPhave n't4664RBn't argued4665VVNargue very4666RBvery forcefully4667RBforcefully that4668IN/thatthat this4669DTthis is4670VBZbe a4671DTa limited4672JJlimited public4673JJpublic forum4674NNforum .4675SENT. Why4676WRBwhy ?4677SENT? [MR. STEWART]4678LOC[MR. STEWART] I4679PPI mean4680VVPmean ,4681,, I4682PPI think4683VVPthink ...4684:... I4685PPI do4686VVPdo think4687VVthink we4688PPwe do4689VVPdo n't4690RBn't regard4691VVregard it4692PPit as4693INas a4694DTa limited4695JJlimited public4696JJpublic forum4697NNforum because4698INbecause the4699DTthe registration4700NNregistration program4701NNprogram gives4702VVZgive significant4703JJsignificant commercial4704JJcommercial benefits4705NNSbenefit to4706TOto registrants4707NNSregistrant ,4708,, but4709CCbut getting4710VVGget the4711DTthe mark4712NNmark on4713INon the4714DTthe PTO4715NPPTO 's4716POS's principal4717JJprincipal or4718CCor supplemental4719JJsupplemental register4720NNregister is4721VBZbe not4722RBnot the4723DTthe way4724NNway in4725INin which4726WDTwhich Mr4727NPMr .4728SENT. Brunetti4729NPBrunetti would4730MDwould want4731VVwant to4732TOto communicate4733VVcommunicate with4734INwith his4735PP$his potential4736JJpotential customers4737NNScustomer .4738SENT. The4739DTthe ...4740:... the4741DTthe way4742NNway in4743INin which4744WDTwhich he4745PPhe would4746MDwould communicate4747VVcommunicate with4748INwith his4749PP$his potential4750JJpotential customers4751NNScustomer is4752VBZbe by4753INby advertisements4754NNSadvertisement ,4755,, promotional4756JJpromotional materials4757NNSmaterial ,4758,, placing4759VVGplace the4760DTthe goods4761NNSgood on4762INon shelves4763NNSshelf ...4764:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4765LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Oh4766NPOh ,4767,, but4768CCbut that4769DTthat 's4770VBZbe not4771RBnot true4772JJtrue .4773SENT. It4774PPit puts4775VVZput the4776DTthe world4777NNworld on4778INon notice4779NNnotice of4780INof his4781PP$his mark4782NNmark .4783SENT. [MR. STEWART]4784LOC[MR. STEWART] It4785PPit does4786VVZdo and4787CCand it4788PPit ...4789:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4790LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] And4791CCand ...4792:... and4793CCand it4794PPit gives4795VVZgive him4796PPhim the4797DTthe legal4798JJlegal protections4799NNSprotection that4800WDTthat come4801VVPcome from4802INfrom that4803DTthat notice4804NNnotice .4805SENT. Without4806INwithout it4807PPit ,4808,, he4809PPhe can4810MDcan 't4811RB't enforce4812VVenforce any4813DTany federal4814JJfederal rights4815NNSright .4816SENT. So4817RBso he4818PPhe needs4819VVZneed registration4820NNregistration to4821TOto be4822VBbe able4823JJable to4824TOto do4825VVdo what4826WPwhat he4827PPhe wants4828VVZwant to4829TOto do4830VVdo .4831SENT. [MR. STEWART]4832LOC[MR. STEWART] And4833CCand we4834PPwe think4835VVPthink essentially4836RBessentially the4837DTthe same4838JJsame legal4839JJlegal standard4840NNstandard should4841MDshould apply4842VVapply to4843TOto the4844DTthe restrictions4845NNSrestriction at4846INat issue4847NNissue here4848RBhere as4849RBas would4850MDwould apply4851VVapply to4852TOto a4853DTa limited4854JJlimited public4855JJpublic forum4856NNforum .4857SENT. Our4858PP$our only4859JJonly point4860NNpoint ...4861:... the4862DTthe reason4863NNreason we4864PPwe have4865VHPhave n't4866RBn't argued4867VVNargue that4868IN/thatthat it4869PPit actually4870RBactually is4871VBZbe a4872DTa limited4873JJlimited public4874JJpublic forum4875NNforum is4876VBZbe that4877IN/thatthat the4878DTthe ...4879:... the4880DTthe register4881NNregister communicates4882VVZcommunicate not4883RBnot so4884RBso much4885JJmuch with4886INwith Mr4887NPMr .4888SENT. Brunetti4889NPBrunetti 's4890POS's customers4891NNScustomer but4892CCbut with4893INwith potential4894JJpotential infringers4895NNSinfringer ,4896,, people4897NNSpeople who4898WPwho might4899MDmight otherwise4900RBotherwise be4901VBbe tempted4902VVNtempt to4903TOto ...4904:... to4905TOto use4906VVuse the4907DTthe same4908JJsame mark4909NNmark on4910INon their4911PP$their goods4912NNSgood .4913SENT. Now4914RBnow a4915DTa couple4916NNcouple of4917INof other4918JJother things4919NNSthing that4920IN/thatthat I4921PPI 'd4922MDwould like4923VVlike to4924TOto ...4925:... to4926TOto say4927VVsay about4928INabout the4929DTthe registration4930NNregistration program4931NNprogram .4932SENT. You4933PPyou 're4934VBPbe right4935JJright that4936IN/thatthat people4937NNSpeople pay4938VVPpay a4939DTa fee4940NNfee to4941TOto register4942VVregister ,4943,, but4944CCbut the4945DTthe PTO4946NPPTO still4947RBstill devotes4948VVZdevote substantial4949JJsubstantial resources4950NNSresource to4951TOto examining4952VVGexamine the4953DTthe trademarks4954NNStrademark ,4955,, to4956TOto publishing4957VVGpublish them4958PPthem .4959SENT. There4960EXthere are4961VBPbe periodic4962JJperiodic ...4963:... there4964EXthere 's4965VBZbe a4966DTa periodic4967JJperiodic reexamination4968NNreexamination to4969TOto see4970VVsee whether4971INwhether the4972DTthe ...4973:... the4974DTthe applicant4975NNapplicant is4976VBZbe still4977RBstill using4978VVGuse the4979DTthe mark4980NNmark in4981INin commerce4982NNcommerce .4983SENT. And4984CCand the4985DTthe advantages4986NNSadvantage ...4987:... the4988DTthe commercial4989JJcommercial advantages4990NNSadvantage that4991WDTthat registrants4992NNSregistrant get4993VVPget are4994VBPbe directly4995RBdirectly attributable4996JJattributable to4997TOto the4998DTthe efforts4999NNSeffort that5000WDTthat PTO5001NPPTO has5002VHZhave put5003VVNput in5004RPin .5005SENT. For5006INfor example5007NNexample ,5008,, the5009DTthe reason5010NNreason that5011IN/thatthat it5012PPit makes5013VVZmake sense5014NNsense to5015TOto treat5016VVtreat trademark5017NNtrademark registration5018NNregistration as5019INas prima5020JJprima facie5021NNfacie evidence5022NNevidence of5023INof the5024DTthe trademark5025NNtrademark 's5026POS's validity5027NNvalidity and5028CCand the5029DTthe registrant5030NNregistrant 's5031POS's ownership5032NNownership is5033VBZbe that5034IN/thatthat the5035DTthe PTO5036NPPTO has5037VHZhave examined5038VVNexamine the5039DTthe materials5040NNSmaterial and5041CCand has5042VHZhave made5043VVNmake that5044DTthat determination5045NNdetermination .5046SENT. The5047DTthe reason5048NNreason it5049PPit makes5050VVZmake sense5051NNsense for5052INfor the5053DTthe trademark5054NNtrademark to5055TOto become5056VVbecome incontestable5057JJincontestable after5058INafter five5059CDfive years5060NNSyear is5061VBZbe that5062IN/thatthat the5063DTthe PTO5064NPPTO has5065VHZhave published5066VVNpublish the5067DTthe trademark5068NNtrademark ,5069,, anyone5070NNanyone who5071WPwho thinks5072VVZthink that5073IN/thatthat there5074EXthere might5075MDmight be5076VBbe a5077DTa problem5078NNproblem with5079INwith it5080PPit has5081VHZhave an5082DTan opportunity5083NNopportunity to5084TOto see5085VVsee that5086IN/thatthat the5087DTthe mark5088NNmark has5089VHZhave been5090VBNbe claimed5091VVNclaim and5092CCand to5093TOto raise5094VVraise an5095DTan objection5096NNobjection ,5097,, and5098CCand so5099RBso ,5100,, if5101INif a5102DTa person5103NNperson does5104VVZdo n't5105RBn't so5106RBso ...5107:... does5108VVZdo n't5109RBn't do5110VVdo so5111RBso within5112INwithin five5113CDfive years5114NNSyear ,5115,, it5116PPit 's5117VBZbe fair5118JJfair to5119TOto ...5120:... to5121TOto treat5122VVtreat the5123DTthe mark5124NNmark as5125INas incontestable5126JJincontestable .5127SENT. If5128INif I5129PPI may5130MDmay ,5131,, I5132PPI 'd5133MDwould like5134VVlike to5135TOto reserve5136VVreserve the5137DTthe balance5138NNbalance of5139INof my5140PP$my time5141NNtime .5142SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]5143LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank5144VVthank you5145PPyou ,5146,, counsel5147NNcounsel .5148SENT. Mr5149NPMr .5150SENT. Sommer5151NPSommer .5152SENT.