[MR. VERRILLI]25LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Mr26NPMr .27SENT. Chief28NPChief Justice29NPJustice ,30,, and31CCand may32MDmay it33PPit please34VVplease the35DTthe Court36NPCourt :37:: Section38NNsection 111339CD@card@ (40(( 241CD2 )42)) of43INof ERISA44NPERISA requires45VVZrequire that46IN/thatthat claims47NNSclaim for48INfor breach49NNbreach of50INof fiduciary51JJfiduciary duty52NNduty be53VBbe brought54VVNbring within55INwithin three56CDthree years57NNSyear of58INof when59WRBwhen the60DTthe plaintiff61NNplaintiff first62RBfirst had63VHDhave actual64JJactual knowledge65NNknowledge of66INof the67DTthe breach68NNbreach .69SENT. In70INin 201571CD@card@ ,72,, the73DTthe Respondent74NNrespondent ,75,, Sulyma76NPSulyma ,77,, sued78VVDsue ,79,, claiming80VVGclaim that81IN/thatthat his82PP$his retirement83NNretirement plans84NNSplan imprudently85RBimprudently overinvested86VVNoverinvest in87INin hedge88JJhedge funds89NNSfund and90CCand commodities91NNScommodity .92SENT. But93CCbut more94JJRmore than95INthan three96CDthree years97NNSyear before98INbefore that99DTthat suit100NNsuit was101VBDbe filed102VVNfile ,103,, Sulyma104NPSulyma received105VVDreceive plan106NNplan disclosures107NNSdisclosure that108WDTthat apprised109VVDapprise him110PPhim of111INof the112DTthe precise113JJprecise investment114NNinvestment allocations115NNSallocation he116PPhe later117RBRlater claimed118VVDclaim were119VBDbe imprudent120JJimprudent .121SENT. The122DTthe Ninth123JJninth Circuit124NNcircuit held125VVDhold that126IN/thatthat those127DTthose disclosures128NNSdisclosure would129MDwould not130RBnot trigger131VVtrigger the132DTthe three-year133JJthree-year bar134NNbar because135INbecause Sulyma136NPSulyma testified137VVDtestify that138IN/thatthat he139PPhe had140VHDhave not141RBnot read142VVNread them143PPthem and144CCand Intel145NPIntel ,146,, therefore147RBtherefore ,148,, had149VHDhave not150RBnot established151VVNestablish that152IN/thatthat he153PPhe had154VHDhave subjective155JJsubjective awareness156NNawareness of157INof what158WPwhat was159VBDbe disclosed160VVNdisclose .161SENT. The162DTthe Ninth163JJninth Circuit164NNcircuit was165VBDbe wrong166JJwrong to167TOto read168VVread the169DTthe statute170NNstatute to171TOto require172VVrequire proof173NNproof of174INof subjective175JJsubjective awareness176NNawareness .177SENT. Under178INunder Section179NPSection 1113180CD@card@ (181(( 2182CD2 )183)) ,184,, plan185NNplan participants186NNSparticipant have187VHPhave actual188JJactual knowledge189NNknowledge of190INof facts191NNSfact that192WDTthat are193VBPbe actually194RBactually given195VVNgive to196TOto them197PPthem in198INin mandatory199JJmandatory ERISA200NPERISA disclosures201NNSdisclosure .202SENT. That203DTthat reading204NNreading respects205VVZrespect ERISA206NPERISA 's207POS's text208NNtext and209CCand the210DTthe statutory211JJstatutory emphasis212NNemphasis on213INon ...214:... the215DTthe structural216JJstructural emphasis217NNemphasis in218INin the219DTthe statute220NNstatute on221INon robust222JJrobust disclosure223NNdisclosure by224INby plan225NNplan fiduciaries226NNSfiduciary and227CCand private228JJprivate policing229VVGpolice by230INby plan231NNplan participants232NNSparticipant .233SENT. The234DTthe Ninth235JJninth Circu236NPCircu it237PPit 's238POS's reading239NNreading upends240VVZupend that241DTthat balance242NNbalance .243SENT. It244PPit effectively245RBeffectively doubles246VVZdouble from247INfrom three248CDthree to249TOto six250CDsix years251NNSyear the252DTthe period253NNperiod in254INin which255WDTwhich plaintiffs256NNSplaintiff can257MDcan exploit258VVexploit hindsight259NNhindsight bias260NNbias to261TOto second-guess262VVsecond-guess investments263NNSinvestment ,264,, even265RBeven when266WRBwhen plans267NNSplan have268VHPhave fully269RBfully disclosed270VVNdisclose the271DTthe basis272NNbasis for273INfor those274DTthose investments275NNSinvestment ,276,, and277CCand it278PPit introduces279VVZintroduce arbitrariness280NNarbitrariness and281CCand intractable282JJintractable proof283NNproof problems284NNSproblem .285SENT. Now286RBnow one287CDone way288NNway to289TOto bring290VVbring the291DTthe correct292JJcorrect interpretation293NNinterpretation of294INof Section295NPSection 1296CD1 ...297:... 1113298CD@card@ (299(( 2300CD2 )301)) into302INinto focus303NNfocus is304VBZbe by305INby considering306VVGconsider the307DTthe provision308NNprovision as309INas it310PPit was311VBDbe originally312RBoriginally enacted313VVNenact in314INin 1974315CD@card@ ,316,, and317CCand that318WDTthat 's319VBZbe reproduced320VVNreproduce at321INat pages322NNSpage 38323CD@card@ and324CCand 39325CD@card@ of326INof the327DTthe Blue328NPBlue Brief329NPBrief .330SENT. The331DTthe original332JJoriginal statute333NNstatute provided334VVDprovide that335IN/thatthat the336DTthe three-year337JJthree-year limitations338NNSlimitation period339NNperiod would340MDwould be341VBbe triggered342VVNtrigger either343CCeither when344WRBwhen a345DTa plaintiff346NNplaintiff had347VHDhave actual348JJactual knowledge349NNknowledge of350INof the351DTthe breach352NNbreach or353CCor when354WRBwhen the355DTthe plan356NNplan filed357VVNfile with358INwith the359DTthe Department360NPDepartment of361INof Labor362NPLabor a363DTa report364NNreport that365WDTthat included366VVDinclude facts367NNSfact from368INfrom which369WDTwhich a370DTa participant371NNparticipant could372MDcould reasonably373RBreasonably learn374VVlearn of375INof the376DTthe facts377NNSfact of378INof the379DTthe breach380NNbreach .381SENT. Now382RBnow ,383,, if384INif you385PPyou read386VVPread the387DTthe statute388NNstatute in389INin the390DTthe way391NNway that392IN/thatthat the393DTthe Ninth394JJninth Circuit395NNcircuit read396VVDread it397PPit ,398,, it399PPit does400VVZdo n't401RBn't make402VVmake any403DTany sense404NNsense as405INas it406PPit was407VBDbe originally408RBoriginally enacted409VVNenact because410INbecause the411DTthe three-year412JJthree-year period413NNperiod would414MDwould be415VBbe triggered416VVNtrigger in417INin a418DTa situation419NNsituation in420INin which421WDTwhich the422DTthe plan423NNplan disclosed424VVDdisclose to425TOto the426DTthe Department427NPDepartment of428INof Labor429NPLabor the430DTthe facts431NNSfact that432WDTthat establish433VVestablish the434DTthe breach435NNbreach but436CCbut not437RBnot when438WRBwhen the439DTthe ...440:... when441WRBwhen the442DTthe plan443NNplan disclosed444VVDdisclose to445TOto the446DTthe plan447NNplan participants448NNSparticipant themselves449PPthemselves in450INin mandatory451JJmandatory disclosures452NNSdisclosure the453DTthe very454RBvery same455JJsame facts456NNSfact that457WDTthat would458MDwould trigger459VVtrigger it460PPit if461INif provided462VVNprovide to463TOto the464DTthe Department465NPDepartment of466INof Labor467NPLabor .468SENT. That469WDTthat just470RBjust does471VVZdo n't472RBn't make473VVmake any474DTany sense475NNsense of476INof the477DTthe statute478NNstatute .479SENT. Our480PP$our reading481NNreading ,482,, in483INin contrast484NNcontrast ,485,, makes486VVZmake perfect487JJperfect sense488NNsense of489INof the490DTthe statute491NNstatute .492SENT. And493CCand if494INif I495PPI could496MDcould ,497,, I498PPI ...499:... I500PPI will501MDwill start502VVstart with503INwith the504DTthe text505NNtext and506CCand ...507:... and508CCand ,509,, I510PPI think511VVPthink ,512,, try513VVPtry to514TOto take515VVtake a516DTa minute517NNminute and518CCand explain519VVexplain why520WRBwhy we521PPwe 've522VHPhave got523VVNget a524DTa perfectly525RBperfectly reasonable526JJreasonable linguistic527JJlinguistic understanding528NNunderstanding of529INof Section530NPSection 1113531CD@card@ (532(( 2533CD2 )534)) .535SENT. And536CCand it537PPit 's538VBZbe this539DTthis :540:: A541DTa plaintiff542NNplaintiff has543VHZhave actual544JJactual knowledge545NNknowledge of546INof facts547NNSfact actually548RBactually provided549VVNprovide to550TOto him551PPhim in552INin mandatory553JJmandatory disclosures554NNSdisclosure because555RBbecause ,556,, when557WRBwhen the558DTthe plaintiff559NNplaintiff receives560VVZreceive the561DTthe disclosure562NNdisclosure ,563,, he564PPhe has565VHZhave ,566,, in567INin the568DTthe word569NNword of570INof the571DTthe statute572NNstatute 's573POS's past574JJpast tense575NNtense "576''" had577VHDhave ,578,, "579``" but580CCbut he581PPhe has582VHZhave in583INin his584PP$his possession585NNpossession a586DTa body587NNbody ...588:... the589DTthe body590NNbody of591INof knowledge592NNknowledge contained593VVNcontain in594INin the595DTthe disclosures596NNSdisclosure .597SENT. He598PPhe possesses599VVZpossess that600DTthat knowledge601NNknowledge .602SENT. And603CCand that604DTthat 's605VBZbe the606DTthe knowledge607NNknowledge he608PPhe actually609RBactually has610VHZhave .611SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]612LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Most613JJSmost people614NNSpeople do615VVPdo n't616RBn't read617VVread them618PPthem .619SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]620LOC[MR. VERRILLI] You621PPyou know622VVPknow ,623,, I624PPI ...625:... I626PPI ...627:... I628PPI ...629:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]630LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Or631CCor many632JJmany .633SENT. Many634JJmany people635NNSpeople do636VVPdo n't637RBn't read638VVread them639PPthem .640SENT. So641RBso how642WRBhow do643VVPdo you644PPyou have645VHPhave actual646JJactual knowledge647NNknowledge if648INif you649PPyou have650VHPhave n't651RBn't read652VVNread it653PPit ?654SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]655LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So656INso I657PPI ...658:... you659PPyou know660VVPknow ,661,, Your662PP$your Honor663NPHonor ,664,, I665PPI do666VVPdo n't667RBn't know668VVknow that669IN/thatthat that670DTthat 's671VBZbe correct672JJcorrect .673SENT. I674PPI think675VVPthink ,676,, actually677RBactually ,678,, with679INwith respect680NNrespect to681TOto these682DTthese ...683:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]684LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Well685UHWell ,686,, suppose687VVPsuppose ...688:... [MR. VERRILLI]689LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...690:... kinds691NNSkind of692INof documents693NNSdocument ...694:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]695LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...696:... for697INfor the698DTthe group699NNgroup of700INof people701NNSpeople who702WPwho do703VVPdo n't704RBn't read705VVread them706PPthem ,707,, how708WRBhow can709MDcan you710PPyou say711VVPsay that712IN/thatthat they713PPthey have714VHPhave actual715JJactual knowledge716NNknowledge if717INif they718PPthey have719VHPhave n't720RBn't read721VVNread something722NNsomething ?723SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]724LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So725INso I726PPI ...727:... I728PPI think729VVPthink the730DTthe reason731NNreason is732VBZbe because733INbecause the734DTthe ...735:... the736DTthe phrase737NNphrase "738``" actual739JJactual knowledge740NNknowledge "741''" in742INin this743DTthis context744NNcontext in745INin particular746JJparticular ,747,, but748CCbut ,749,, frankly750RBfrankly ,751,, in752INin any753DTany context754NNcontext ,755,, is756VBZbe n't757RBn't limited758VVNlimit to759TOto subjective760JJsubjective awareness761NNawareness in762INin the763DTthe way764NNway that765IN/thatthat the766DTthe Ninth767JJninth Circuit768NNcircuit limited769VVDlimit it770PPit ,771,, and772CCand I773PPI think774VVPthink that775IN/thatthat the776DTthe willful777JJwillful blindness778NNblindness doctrine779NNdoctrine demonstrates780VVZdemonstrate that781DTthat .782SENT. We783PPwe ...784:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]785LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] But786CCbut ,787,, Mr788NPMr .789SENT. Verrilli790NPVerrilli ,791,, we792PPwe do793VVPdo have794VHhave the795DTthe six-year796JJsix-year outer797JJouter limit798NNlimit ,799,, and800CCand then801RBthen there802EXthere 's803VBZbe a804DTa special805JJspecial shorter806JJRshort limit807NNlimit if808INif you809PPyou have810VHPhave actual811JJactual knowledge812NNknowledge .813SENT. And814CCand it815PPit 's816VBZbe hard817JJhard to818TOto read819VVread the820DTthe word821NNword "822``" actual823JJactual "824''" to825TOto mean826VVmean something827NNsomething other828JJother than829INthan yes830UHyes ,831,, I832PPI ,833,, in834INin fact835NNfact ,836,, know837VVPknow .838SENT. And839CCand as840INas Justice841NPJustice Kavanaugh842NPKavanaugh pointed843VVDpoint out844RPout ,845,, there846EXthere are847VBPbe many848JJmany people849NNSpeople who850WPwho do851VVPdo n't852RBn't read853VVread these854DTthese mailings855NNSmailing .856SENT. I857PPI must858MDmust say859VVsay I860PPI do861VVPdo n't862RBn't read863VVread all864PDTall the865DTthe mailings866NNSmailing that867WDTthat I868PPI get869VVPget about870INabout my871PP$my investments872NNSinvestment .873SENT. [874SYM[ LAUGHTER875NNlaughter ]876SYM] [MR. VERRILLI]877LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So878INso I879PPI think880VVPthink ,881,, with882INwith respect883NNrespect to884TOto what885WPwhat "886``" actual887JJactual knowledge888NNknowledge "889``" means890VVZmean in891INin this892DTthis statute893NNstatute ,894,, it895PPit 's896VBZbe important897JJimportant to898TOto think899VVthink about900INabout it901PPit in902INin context903NNcontext ,904,, and905CCand it906PPit 's907VBZbe really908RBreally ...909:... the910DTthe idea911NNidea of912INof taking913VVGtake the914DTthe phrase915NNphrase "916``" actual917JJactual knowledge918NNknowledge "919''" and920CCand treating921VVGtreat it922PPit in923INin this924DTthis context925NNcontext as926RBas though927INthough it928PPit means929VVZmean the930DTthe same931JJsame thing932NNthing in933INin the934DTthe other935JJother contexts936NNScontext in937INin which938WDTwhich it939PPit 's940VBZbe used941VVNuse is942VBZbe a943DTa mistake944NNmistake .945SENT. This946DTthis is947VBZbe really948RBreally a949DTa unicorn950NNunicorn when951WRBwhen it952PPit comes953VVZcome to954TOto statutes955NNSstatute of956INof limitations957NNSlimitation .958SENT. This959DTthis is960VBZbe the961DTthe only962JJonly place963NNplace in964INin the965DTthe United966NPUnited States967NPStates Code968NPCode that969IN/thatthat we970PPwe could971MDcould find972VVfind the973DTthe phrase974NNphrase "975``" actual976JJactual knowledge977NNknowledge "978''" used979VVNuse in980INin the981DTthe statute982NNstatute of983INof limitations984NNSlimitation .985SENT. And986CCand our987PP$our friends988NNSfriend on989INon the990DTthe other991JJother side992NNside have993VHPhave n't994RBn't identified995VVNidentify any996DTany state997NNstate statute998NNstatute of999INof limitations1000NNSlimitation that1001WDTthat uses1002VVZuse the1003DTthe phrase1004NNphrase "1005``" actual1006JJactual knowledge1007NNknowledge "1008''" either1009RBeither .1010SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1011LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Mr1012NPMr .1013SENT. Verrilli1014NPVerrilli ,1015,, I1016PPI ...1017:... I1018PPI think1019VVPthink you1020PPyou were1021VBDbe about1022RBabout to1023TOto push1024VVpush back1025RBback on1026INon ...1027:... on1028INon Justice1029NPJustice Kavanaugh1030NPKavanaugh 's1031POS's assertion1032NNassertion that1033IN/thatthat people1034NNSpeople do1035VVPdo n't1036RBn't read1037VVread these1038DTthese .1039SENT. Do1040VVdo you1041PPyou have1042VHPhave any1043DTany ...1044:... any1045DTany ...1046:... is1047VBZbe there1048RBthere any1049DTany reason1050NNreason for1051INfor us1052PPus to1053TOto assume1054VVassume the1055DTthe opposite1056NNopposite of1057INof what1058WPwhat I1059PPI gather1060VVPgather is1061VBZbe a1062DTa common1063JJcommon personal1064JJpersonal experience1065NNexperience ?1066SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]1067LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So1068INso I1069PPI ...1070:... look1071NNlook ...1072:... [1073SYM[ LAUGHTER1074NNlaughter ]1075SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1076LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] I1077PPI won1078MDwill 't1079RB't ...1080:... I1081PPI won1082MDwill 't1083RB't ask1084VVask for1085INfor a1086DTa show1087NNshow of1088INof hands1089NNShand ,1090,, but1091CCbut ...1092:... [1093SYM[ LAUGHTER1094NNlaughter ]1095SYM] [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1096LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...1097:... do1098VVPdo you1099PPyou have1100VHPhave any1101DTany reason1102NNreason to1103TOto suppose1104VVsuppose that1105IN/thatthat many1106JJmany people1107NNSpeople or1108CCor ...1109:... [MR. VERRILLI]1110LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Yes1111NPYes .1112SENT. Yes1113UHyes ,1114,, I1115PPI do1116VVPdo .1117SENT. I1118PPI mean1119VVPmean ,1120,, this1121DTthis is1122VBZbe ...1123:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1124LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] What1125WPWhat ...1126:... what1127WPwhat is1128VBZbe that1129RBthat ?1130SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]1131LOC[MR. VERRILLI] It's1132NPIt's ...1133:... well1134UHwell ,1135,, I1136PPI ...1137:... I1138PPI do1139VVPdo think1140VVthink that1141IN/thatthat this1142DTthis is1143VBZbe important1144JJimportant information1145NNinformation .1146SENT. For1147INfor many1148JJmany people1149NNSpeople ,1150,, this1151DTthis information1152NNinformation ,1153,, how1154WRBhow their1155PP$their retirement1156NNretirement plans1157NNSplan are1158VBPbe going1159VVGgo to1160TOto be1161VBbe ...1162:... how1163WRBhow their1164PP$their retirement1165NNretirement funds1166NNSfund are1167VBPbe going1168VVGgo to1169TOto be1170VBbe invested1171VVNinvest ,1172,, is1173VBZbe very1174RBvery important1175JJimportant .1176SENT. Many1177JJmany people's1178NNSpeople's ...1179:... [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1180LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Well1181UHwell ,1182,, I1183PPI 'm1184VBPbe sure1185JJsure ...1186:... I1187PPI 'm1188VBPbe sure1189JJsure ...1190:... I1191PPI mean1192VVPmean ...1193:... [MR. VERRILLI]1194LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...1195:... economic1196JJeconomic security1197NNsecurity depends1198VVZdepend on1199INon this1200DTthis .1201SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]1202LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] ...1203:... the1204DTthe ...1205:... the1206DTthe fact1207NNfact is1208VBZbe important1209JJimportant ,1210,, but1211CCbut whether1212INwhether people1213NNSpeople think1214VVPthink the1215DTthe information1216NNinformation is1217VBZbe important1218JJimportant ,1219,, I1220PPI think1221VVPthink ...1222:... I1223PPI 'm1224VBPbe just1225RBjust not1226RBnot ...1227:... well1228UHwell ,1229,, I1230PPI 'd1231MDwould be1232VBbe surprised1233VVNsurprise .1234SENT. I1235PPI mean1236VVPmean ,1237,, it1238PPit 's1239VBZbe one1240CDone of1241INof those1242DTthose things1243NNSthing ,1244,, the1245DTthe more1246JJRmore and1247CCand more1248JJRmore disclosures1249NNSdisclosure that1250WDTthat are1251VBPbe required1252VVNrequire ,1253,, the1254DTthe less1255JJRless and1256CCand less1257RBRless likely1258JJlikely it1259PPit is1260VBZbe that1261IN/thatthat people1262NNSpeople are1263VBPbe going1264VVGgo to1265TOto look1266VVlook at1267INat them1268PPthem .1269SENT. And1270CCand ...1271:... and1272CCand it1273PPit seems1274VVZseem to1275TOto me1276PPme that1277IN/thatthat your1278PP$your argument1279NNargument depends1280VVZdepend upon1281INupon the1282DTthe assumption1283NNassumption that1284IN/thatthat these1285DTthese are1286VBPbe actually1287RBactually going1288VVGgo to1289TOto be1290VBbe read1291VVNread so1292RBso that1293IN/thatthat we1294PPwe would1295MDwould dispense1296VVdispense with1297INwith the1298DTthe requirement1299NNrequirement of1300INof showing1301VVGshow that1302IN/thatthat they1303PPthey were1304VBDbe actually1305RBactually read1306VVNread because1307INbecause we1308PPwe assume1309VVPassume that1310IN/thatthat they1311PPthey were1312VBDbe most1313RBSmost often1314RBoften actually1315RBactually read1316VVNread .1317SENT. And1318CCand I1319PPI just1320RBjust do1321VVPdo n't1322RBn't think1323VVthink that1324WDTthat 's1325VBZbe an1326DTan accurate1327JJaccurate assumption1328NNassumption .1329SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]1330LOC[MR. VERRILLI] I1331PPI do1332VVPdo n't1333RBn't think1334VVthink I1335PPI ...1336:... I1337PPI do1338VVPdo n't1339RBn't think1340VVthink our1341PP$our argument1342NNargument does1343VVZdo depend1344VVdepend on1345INon that1346DTthat assumption1347NNassumption .1348SENT. I1349PPI think1350VVPthink that1351IN/thatthat the1352DTthe ...1353:... Congress1354NPCongress set1355VVDset this1356DTthis system1357NNsystem up1358RBup in1359INin 19741360CD@card@ .1361SENT. It1362PPit made1363VVDmake clear1364JJclear that1365IN/thatthat the1366DTthe disclosure1367NNdisclosure regime1368NNregime was1369VBDbe a1370DTa very1371RBvery important1372JJimportant part1373NNpart of1374INof the1375DTthe regulatory1376JJregulatory ...1377:... of1378INof the1379DTthe regulatory1380JJregulatory program1381NNprogram .1382SENT. And1383CCand the1384DTthe point1385NNpoint ,1386,, as1387INas Congress1388NPCongress said1389VVDsay in1390INin 19741391CD@card@ ,1392,, of1393INof these1394DTthese robust1395JJrobust disclosures1396NNSdisclosure was1397VBDbe to1398TOto give1399VVgive plan1400NNplan participants1401NNSparticipant the1402DTthe information1403NNinformation they1404PPthey would1405MDwould need1406VVneed to1407TOto police1408VVpolice their1409PP$their rights1410NNSright .1411SENT. And1412CCand so1413RBso ,1414,, when1415WRBwhen Congress1416NPCongress enacted1417VVNenact ...1418:... that1419WDTthat 's1420VBZbe what1421WPwhat the1422DTthe Senate1423NPSenate report1424NNreport says1425VVZsay in1426INin 19741427CD@card@ repeatedly1428RBrepeatedly .1429SENT. And1430CCand ,1431,, of1432INof course1433NNcourse ,1434,, in1435INin 19741436CD@card@ ,1437,, Congress1438NPCongress also1439RBalso granted1440VVDgrant a1441DTa private1442JJprivate right1443NNright of1444INof action1445NNaction to1446TOto plan1447VVplan participants1448NNSparticipant to1449TOto sue1450VVsue for1451INfor breach1452NNbreach of1453INof fiduciary1454JJfiduciary duty1455NNduty .1456SENT. So1457RBso I1458PPI do1459VVPdo think1460VVthink the1461DTthe system1462NNsystem was1463VBDbe set1464VVNset up1465RPup on1466INon the1467DTthe understanding1468NNunderstanding that1469IN/thatthat this1470DTthis was1471VBDbe important1472JJimportant information1473NNinformation and1474CCand it1475PPit had1476VHDhave to1477TOto be1478VBbe conveyed1479VVNconvey to1480TOto plan1481VVplan participants1482NNSparticipant according1483VVGaccord to1484TOto the1485DTthe statute1486NNstatute and1487CCand its1488PP$its implementing1489VVGimplement regulations1490NNSregulation in1491INin a1492DTa manner1493NNmanner that1494WDTthat was1495VBDbe readily1496RBreadily comprehensible1497JJcomprehensible so1498RBso that1499IN/thatthat the1500DTthe average1501JJaverage plan1502NNplan participant1503NNparticipant could1504MDcould understand1505VVunderstand it1506PPit and1507CCand could1508MDcould take1509VVtake action1510NNaction as1511INas necessary1512JJnecessary to1513TOto police1514VVpolice his1515PP$his or1516CCor her1517PP$her rights1518NNSright .1519SENT. So1520RBso I1521PPI do1522VVPdo think1523VVthink that1524IN/thatthat the1525DTthe ...1526:... that1527IN/thatthat the1528DTthe understanding1529NNunderstanding that1530IN/thatthat Congress1531NPCongress is1532VBZbe operating1533VVGoperate under1534INunder here1535RBhere is1536VBZbe that1537IN/thatthat people1538NNSpeople do1539VVPdo read1540VVread these1541DTthese ...1542:... do1543VVPdo read1544VVread these1545DTthese disclosures1546NNSdisclosure when1547WRBwhen they1548PPthey come1549VVPcome .1550SENT. And1551CCand if1552INif one1553CDone looks1554NNSlook at1555INat the1556DTthe ...1557:... for1558INfor example1559NNexample ,1560,, the1561DTthe email1562NNemail that1563IN/thatthat Mr1564NPMr .1565SENT. Sulyma1566NPSulyma got1567VVDget ,1568,, and1569CCand you1570PPyou can1571MDcan see1572VVsee this1573DTthis at1574INat page1575NNpage ,1576,, I1577PPI think1578VVPthink ,1579,, 1491580CD@card@ of1581INof the1582DTthe Joint1583NPJoint Appendix1584NPAppendix with1585INwith respect1586NNrespect to1587TOto the1588DTthe qualified1589JJqualified default1590NNdefault investment1591NNinvestment alternative1592NNalternative disclosure1593NNdisclosure ,1594,, he1595PPhe gets1596VVZget an1597DTan email1598NNemail that1599WDTthat says1600VVZsay ...1601:... the1602DTthe heading1603VVGhead says1604VVZsay important1605JJimportant information1606NNinformation about1607INabout your1608PP$your retirement1609NNretirement plan1610NNplan .1611SENT. And1612CCand it1613PPit contains1614VVZcontain a1615DTa link1616NNlink .1617SENT. And1618CCand the1619DTthe link1620NNlink says1621VVZsay ...1622:... it1623PPit says1624VVZsay you1625PPyou should1626MDshould read1627VVread the1628DTthe document1629NNdocument in1630INin this1631DTthis link1632NNlink .1633SENT. And1634CCand if1635INif you1636PPyou click1637VVPclick on1638INon the1639DTthe link1640NNlink ,1641,, it1642PPit takes1643VVZtake you1644PPyou not1645RBnot to1646TOto some1647DTsome big1648JJbig giant1649JJgiant document1650NNdocument but1651CCbut to1652TOto an1653DTan eight-1654NNeight- or1655CCor ten-page1656NNten-page document1657NNdocument that1658WDTthat describes1659VVZdescribe the1660DTthe investments1661NNSinvestment in1662INin the1663DTthe various1664JJvarious target1665NNtarget fund1666NNfund plans1667NNSplan .1668SENT. And1669CCand if1670INif one1671CDone looks1672NNSlook at1673INat page1674NNpage 2361675CD@card@ of1676INof the1677DTthe Joint1678NPJoint Appendix1679NPAppendix ,1680,, one1681PPone will1682MDwill see1683VVsee that1684IN/thatthat for1685INfor Mr1686NPMr .1687SENT. Sulyma1688NPSulyma 's1689POS's plan1690NNplan ,1691,, it1692PPit specifically1693RBspecifically says1694VVZsay the1695DTthe target1696NNtarget asset1697NNasset allocation1698NNallocation in1699INin this1700DTthis fund1701NNfund is1702VBZbe percent1703NNpercent bond1704NNbond funds1705NNSfund and1706CCand short-term1707JJshort-term investments1708NNSinvestment ,1709,, 601710CD@card@ percent1711NNpercent equity1712NNequity funds1713NNSfund ,1714,, 251715CD@card@ percent1716NNpercent hedge1717NNhedge funds1718NNSfund ,1719,, and1720CCand 51721CD5 percent1722NNpercent commodities1723NNScommodity .1724SENT. That1725DTthat 's1726VBZbe the1727DTthe precise1728JJprecise thing1729NNthing he1730PPhe says1731VVZsay is1732VBZbe a1733DTa breach1734NNbreach of1735INof fiduciary1736JJfiduciary duty1737NNduty and1738CCand ...1739:... I1740PPI mean1741VVPmean ...1742:... and1743CCand the1744DTthe precise1745JJprecise thing1746NNthing that1747IN/thatthat he1748PPhe says1749VVZsay was1750VBDbe a1751DTa breach1752NNbreach of1753INof fiduciary1754JJfiduciary duty1755NNduty and1756CCand it1757PPit 's1758VBZbe disclosed1759VVNdisclose to1760TOto him1761PPhim right1762RBright there1763RBthere in1764INin this1765DTthis document1766NNdocument .1767SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]1768LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] But1769CCbut ,1770,, Mr1771NPMr .1772SENT. Verrilli1773NPVerrilli ,1774,, what1775WPwhat role1776NNrole does1777VVZdo willful1778JJwillful blindness1779NNblindness play1780NNplay in1781INin your1782PP$your argument1783NNargument ?1784SENT? Are1785VBPbe you1786PPyou claiming1787VVGclaim that1788IN/thatthat anybody1789NNanybody who1790WPwho does1791VVZdo n't1792RBn't read1793VVread these1794DTthese documents1795NNSdocument is1796VBZbe being1797VBGbe willfully1798RBwillfully blind1799JJblind ?1800SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]1801LOC[MR. VERRILLI] No1802NPNo .1803SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]1804LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Or1805CCor is1806VBZbe there1807RBthere a1808DTa different1809JJdifferent argument1810NNargument that1811IN/thatthat you1812PPyou 're1813VBPbe making1814VVGmake ?1815SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]1816LOC[MR. VERRILLI] No1817NPNo .1818SENT. I'm1819NNI'm ...1820:... we1821PPwe 're1822VBPbe making1823VVGmake a1824DTa different1825JJdifferent argument1826NNargument ,1827,, and1828CCand it1829PPit ...1830:... and1831CCand it1832PPit ...1833:... and1834CCand it1835PPit 's1836VBZbe why1837WRBwhy I1838PPI said1839VVDsay ,1840,, Mr1841NPMr .1842SENT. Chief1843NPChief Justice1844NPJustice ,1845,, that1846WDTthat I1847PPI thought1848VVDthink our1849PP$our argument1850NNargument did1851VVDdo n't1852RBn't depend1853VVdepend on1854INon the1855DTthe empirical1856JJempirical assumption1857NNassumption that1858IN/thatthat people1859NNSpeople ...1860:... everyone1861NNeveryone actually1862RBactually reads1863VVZread these1864DTthese ...1865:... these1866DTthese documents1867NNSdocument when1868WRBwhen they1869PPthey get1870VVPget them1871PPthem .1872SENT. Willful1873JJwillful blindness1874NNblindness is1875VBZbe ...1876:... is1877VBZbe not1878RBnot constructive1879JJconstructive knowledge1880NNknowledge .1881SENT. Willful1882JJwillful blindness1883NNblindness is1884VBZbe a1885DTa form1886NNform of1887INof actual1888JJactual knowledge1889NNknowledge .1890SENT. And1891CCand that1892DTthat 's1893VBZbe how1894WRBhow this1895DTthis Court1896NPCourt addressed1897VVDaddress it1898PPit in1899INin Global-Tech1900NPGlobal-Tech .1901SENT. In1902INin Global-Tech1903NPGlobal-Tech ,1904,, of1905INof course1906NNcourse ,1907,, the1908DTthe Court1909NPCourt struggled1910VVDstruggle in1911INin the1912DTthe patent1913NNpatent inducement1914NNinducement context1915NNcontext to1916TOto decide1917VVdecide first1918JJfirst whether1919INwhether the1920DTthe inducement1921NNinducement cause1922NNcause of1923INof action1924NNaction required1925VVNrequire proof1926NNproof of1927INof actual1928JJactual knowledge1929NNknowledge or1930CCor proof1931NNproof of1932INof constructive1933JJconstructive knowledge1934NNknowledge .1935SENT. It1936PPit concluded1937VVDconclude it1938PPit required1939VVDrequire proof1940NNproof of1941INof actual1942JJactual knowledge1943NNknowledge .1944SENT. And1945CCand then1946RBthen the1947DTthe Court1948NPCourt went1949VVDgo on1950RPon to1951TOto say1952VVsay :1953:: But1954CCbut actual1955JJactual knowledge1956NNknowledge can1957MDcan be1958VBbe satisfied1959VVNsatisfy by1960INby proof1961NNproof of1962INof willful1963JJwillful blindness1964NNblindness .1965SENT. And1966CCand what1967WPwhat that1968RBthat demonstrates1969VVZdemonstrate is1970VBZbe that1971IN/thatthat there1972EXthere are1973VBPbe situations1974NNSsituation in1975INin which1976WDTwhich the1977DTthe actual1978JJactual knowledge1979NNknowledge standard1980NNstandard can1981MDcan be1982VBbe satisfied1983VVNsatisfy by1984INby imputing1985VVGimpute knowledge1986NNknowledge ,1987,, even1988RBeven a1989DTa ...1990:... in1991INin a1992DTa situation1993NNsituation where1994WRBwhere it1995PPit can1996MDcan 't1997RB't be1998VBbe proved1999VVNprove .2000SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]2001LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Who2002WPwho would2003MDwould have2004VHhave thought2005VVNthink ...2006:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]2007LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] But2008CCbut you2009PPyou say2010VVPsay this2011DTthis is2012VBZbe not2013RBnot ...2014:... this2015DTthis is2016VBZbe not2017RBnot willful2018JJwillful ,2019,, though2020RBthough ?2021SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]2022LOC[MR. VERRILLI] No2023NPNo ,2024,, we2025PPwe 're2026VBPbe not2027RBnot saying2028VVGsay that2029DTthat .2030SENT. We2031PPwe 're2032VBPbe using2033VVGuse it2034PPit by2035INby analogy2036NNanalogy to2037TOto demonstrate2038VVdemonstrate the2039DTthe point2040NNpoint that2041IN/thatthat the2042DTthe outer2043JJouter bound2044NNbound of2045INof actual2046JJactual knowledge2047NNknowledge is2048VBZbe not2049RBnot subjective2050JJsubjective awareness2051NNawareness ,2052,, which2053WDTwhich is2054VBZbe the2055DTthe standard2056NNstandard that2057IN/thatthat the2058DTthe Ninth2059JJninth Circuit2060NNcircuit adopted2061VVDadopt ;2062:; that2063IN/thatthat there2064EXthere are2065VBPbe circumstances2066NNScircumstance in2067INin which2068WDTwhich the2069DTthe Court2070NPCourt ,2071,, as2072RBas ...2073:... as2074RBas ...2075:... by2076INby operation2077NNoperation of2078INof law2079NNlaw ,2080,, will2081MDwill recognize2082VVrecognize that2083DTthat something2084NNsomething other2085JJother than2086INthan subjective2087JJsubjective awareness2088NNawareness can2089MDcan satisfy2090VVsatisfy an2091DTan actual2092JJactual knowledge2093NNknowledge standard2094NNstandard .2095SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]2096LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] I2097PPI guess2098VVPguess I2099PPI would2100MDwould have2101VHhave thought2102VVNthink about2103INabout it2104PPit a2105DTa little2106JJlittle bit2107NNbit differently2108RBdifferently ,2109,, not2110RBnot that2111IN/thatthat the2112DTthe willful2113JJwillful blindness2114NNblindness is2115VBZbe satisfying2116VVGsatisfy the2117DTthe actual2118JJactual knowledge2119NNknowledge inquiry2120NNinquiry but2121CCbut ,2122,, rather2123RBrather ,2124,, that2125IN/thatthat ,2126,, because2127INbecause you2128PPyou 've2129VHPhave been2130VBNbe willfully2131RBwillfully blind2132JJblind ,2133,, because2134INbecause you2135PPyou 've2136VHPhave deliberately2137RBdeliberately ignored2138VVNignore some2139DTsome piece2140NNpiece of2141INof evidence2142NNevidence ,2143,, we2144PPwe will2145MDwill treat2146VVtreat it2147PPit as2148INas if2149INif you2150PPyou actually2151RBactually knew2152VVDknow .2153SENT. But2154CCbut ...2155:... but2156CCbut ,2157,, still2158RBstill ,2159,, the2160DTthe willful2161JJwillful blindness2162NNblindness is2163VBZbe a2164DTa ...2165:... is2166VBZbe a2167DTa different2168JJdifferent thing2169NNthing .2170SENT. It2171PPit 's2172VBZbe just2173RBjust that2174RBthat given2175VVNgive your2176PP$your intent2177NNintent ,2178,, we2179PPwe 're2180VBPbe going2181VVGgo to2182TOto treat2183VVtreat it2184PPit as2185INas one2186CDone and2187CCand the2188DTthe same2189JJsame .2190SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]2191LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well2192UHWell ,2193,, but2194CCbut I2195PPI think2196VVPthink the2197DTthe ...2198:... the2199DTthe way2200NNway I2201PPI would2202MDwould ...2203:... the2204DTthe way2205NNway I2206PPI would2207MDwould give2208VVgive that2209IN/thatthat a2210DTa little2211JJlittle bit2212NNbit of2213INof a2214DTa different2215JJdifferent nuance2216NNnuance ,2217,, Your2218PP$your Honor2219NPHonor ,2220,, is2221VBZbe that2222IN/thatthat I2223PPI think2224VVPthink with2225INwith respect2226NNrespect to2227TOto willful2228JJwillful blindness2229NNblindness ,2230,, what2231WPwhat you2232PPyou 're2233VBPbe saying2234VVGsay is2235VBZbe ,2236,, even2237RBeven a2238DTa situation2239NNsituation where2240WRBwhere it2241PPit 's2242VBZbe not2243RBnot possible2244JJpossible to2245TOto prove2246VVprove that2247IN/thatthat a2248DTa defendant2249NNdefendant ...2250:... and2251CCand it2252PPit 's2253VBZbe usually2254RBusually a2255DTa criminal2256JJcriminal defendant2257NNdefendant or2258CCor a2259DTa defendant2260NNdefendant in2261INin some2262DTsome kind2263NNkind of2264INof enforcement2265NNenforcement action2266NNaction ...2267:... has2268VHZhave the2269DTthe subjective2270JJsubjective awareness2271NNawareness necessary2272JJnecessary to2273TOto satisfy2274VVsatisfy an2275DTan actual2276JJactual knowledge2277NNknowledge standard2278NNstandard ,2279,, you2280PPyou 're2281VBPbe going2282VVGgo to2283TOto impute2284VVimpute that2285DTthat subjective2286JJsubjective awareness2287NNawareness to2288TOto the2289DTthe defendant2290NNdefendant .2291SENT. It2292PPit 's2293VBZbe an2294DTan imputation2295NNimputation .2296SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]2297LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Correct2298JJcorrect ,2299,, because2300INbecause of2301INof their2302PP$their bad2303JJbad intent2304NNintent ,2305,, shall2306MDshall we2307PPwe say2308VVsay .2309SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]2310LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Right2311RBright .2312SENT. And2313CCand so2314RBso ...2315:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]2316LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] Because2317INbecause of2318INof their2319PP$their saying2320VVGsay I2321PPI 'm2322VBPbe purposefully2323RBpurposefully not2324RBnot going2325VVGgo to2326TOto know2327VVknow this2328DTthis .2329SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]2330LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Right2331NPRight .2332SENT. [JUSTICE KAGAN]2333LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] But2334CCbut ,2335,, here2336RBhere ,2337,, you2338PPyou 're2339VBPbe saying2340VVGsay not2341RBnot everybody2342NNeverybody ...2343:... [MR. VERRILLI]2344LOC[MR. VERRILLI] But2345CCbut ...2346:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]2347LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...2348:... who2349WPwho has2350VHZhave actual2351JJactual knowledge2352NNknowledge ...2353:... [MR. VERRILLI]2354LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...2355:... I2356PPI think2357VVPthink this2358DTthis gets2359VVZget ...2360:... [JUSTICE KAGAN]2361LOC[JUSTICE KAGAN] ...2362:... is2363VBZbe willfully2364RBwillfully blind2365JJblind in2366INin that2367DTthat way2368NNway .2369SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]2370LOC[MR. VERRILLI] That's2371NPThat's ...2372:... that2373WDTthat 's2374VBZbe correct2375JJcorrect ,2376,, but2377CCbut I2378PPI think2379VVPthink that2380DTthat ...2381:... but2382CCbut we2383PPwe 're2384VBPbe not2385RBnot ...2386:... what2387WPwhat we2388PPwe 're2389VBPbe saying2390VVGsay is2391VBZbe that2392IN/thatthat by2393INby analogy2394NNanalogy ,2395,, once2396RBonce you2397PPyou think2398VVPthink here2399RBhere about2400INabout the2401DTthe context2402NNcontext ,2403,, because2404INbecause what2405WPwhat 's2406VBZbe happened2407VVNhappen with2408INwith this2409DTthis actual2410JJactual knowledge2411NNknowledge standard2412NNstandard ,2413,, as2414INas I2415PPI said2416VVDsay ,2417,, this2418DTthis is2419VBZbe the2420DTthe only2421JJonly statute2422NNstatute of2423INof limitations2424NNSlimitation we2425PPwe can2426MDcan find2427VVfind in2428INin which2429WDTwhich it2430PPit exists2431VVZexist .2432SENT. It's2433NNSIt's ...2434:... the2435DTthe overwhelming2436JJoverwhelming number2437NNnumber of2438INof situations2439NNSsituation in2440INin which2441WDTwhich it2442PPit exists2443VVZexist are2444VBPbe the2445DTthe ones2446NNSone that2447IN/thatthat we2448PPwe 've2449VHPhave been2450VBNbe talking2451VVGtalk about2452RBabout here2453RBhere ,2454,, situations2455NNSsituation in2456INin which2457WDTwhich you2458PPyou 're2459VBPbe trying2460VVGtry to2461TOto ascertain2462VVascertain the2463DTthe level2464NNlevel of2465INof culpability2466NNculpability in2467INin a2468DTa criminal2469JJcriminal action2470NNaction or2471CCor an2472DTan enforcement2473NNenforcement action2474NNaction .2475SENT. So2476RBso you2477PPyou 're2478VBPbe transplanting2479VVGtransplant it2480PPit into2481INinto a2482DTa totally2483RBtotally different2484JJdifferent environment2485NNenvironment here2486RBhere .2487SENT. And2488CCand then2489RBthen not2490RBnot only2491RBonly that2492IN/thatthat ,2493,, but2494CCbut normally2495RBnormally ,2496,, in2497INin statutes2498NNSstatute of2499INof limitations2500NNSlimitation ,2501,, when2502WRBwhen ...2503:... when2504WRBwhen there2505EXthere 's2506VBZbe a2507DTa knowledge2508NNknowledge element2509NNelement in2510INin a2511DTa statute2512NNstatute of2513INof limitations2514NNSlimitation ,2515,, it2516PPit 's2517VBZbe something2518NNsomething that2519WDTthat works2520VVZwork to2521TOto the2522DTthe benefit2523NNbenefit of2524INof the2525DTthe plaintiff2526NNplaintiff .2527SENT. In2528INin a2529DTa typical2530JJtypical statute2531NNstatute of2532INof limitations2533NNSlimitation ,2534,, you2535PPyou 'd2536MDwould say2537VVsay the2538DTthe statute2539NNstatute runs2540VVZrun six2541CDsix years2542NNSyear from2543INfrom a2544DTa certain2545JJcertain act2546NNact or2547CCor occurrence2548NNoccurrence ,2549,, but2550CCbut it2551PPit will2552MDwill be2553VBbe either2554RBeither the2555DTthe later2556RBRlater of2557INof that2558DTthat or2559CCor three2560CDthree years2561NNSyear after2562INafter the2563DTthe plaintiff2564NNplaintiff has2565VHZhave or2566CCor should2567MDshould have2568VHhave had2569VHNhave knowledge2570NNknowledge .2571SENT. Here2572RBhere ,2573,, the2574DTthe knowledge2575NNknowledge requirement2576NNrequirement is2577VBZbe ...2578:... is2579VBZbe operating2580VVGoperate for2581INfor a2582DTa totally2583RBtotally different2584JJdifferent reason2585NNreason .2586SENT. It2587PPit 's2588VBZbe in2589INin the2590DTthe statute2591NNstatute to2592TOto protect2593VVprotect the2594DTthe interests2595NNSinterest of2596INof the2597DTthe defendant2598NNdefendant .2599SENT. It2600PPit takes2601VVZtake the2602DTthe six-year2603JJsix-year period2604NNperiod of2605INof repose2606NNrepose and2607CCand cuts2608VVZcut it2609PPit in2610INin half2611NNhalf when2612WRBwhen a2613DTa plaintiff2614NNplaintiff has2615VHZhave actual2616JJactual knowledge2617NNknowledge .2618SENT. And2619CCand I2620PPI submit2621VVPsubmit that2622IN/thatthat ,2623,, therefore2624RBtherefore ,2625,, the2626DTthe right2627JJright way2628NNway to2629TOto think2630VVthink about2631INabout this2632DTthis is2633VBZbe by2634INby thinking2635VVGthink about2636INabout this2637DTthis in2638INin terms2639NNSterm of2640INof the2641DTthe interest2642NNinterest that2643IN/thatthat this2644DTthis provision2645NNprovision is2646VBZbe in2647INin the2648DTthe statute2649NNstatute to2650TOto advance2651VVadvance .2652SENT. And2653CCand the2654DTthe interest2655NNinterest that2656IN/thatthat it2657PPit 's2658VBZbe in2659INin the2660DTthe statute2661NNstatute to2662TOto advance2663VVadvance ,2664,, it2665PPit seems2666VVZseem to2667TOto me2668PPme ,2669,, are2670VBPbe per2671INper ...2672:... synch2673NNsynch up2674RBup perfectly2675RBperfectly with2676INwith the2677DTthe disclosure2678NNdisclosure requirements2679NNSrequirement that2680IN/thatthat the2681DTthe ...2682:... that2683IN/thatthat the2684DTthe statute2685NNstatute imposes2686VVZimpose on2687INon plan2688NNplan fiduciaries2689NNSfiduciary .2690SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]2691LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] If2692INif the2693DTthe statute2694NNstatute had2695VHDhave said2696VVNsay "2697``" should2698MDshould have2699VHhave had2700VHNhave knowledge2701NNknowledge ,2702,, "2703''" you2704PPyou would2705MDwould plainly2706RBplainly prevail2707VVprevail ,2708,, but2709CCbut it2710PPit does2711VVZdo n't2712RBn't say2713VVsay "2714``" should2715MDshould have2716VHhave had2717VHNhave knowledge2718NNknowledge .2719SENT. "2720''" It2721PPit says2722VVZsay "2723``" actual2724JJactual knowledge2725NNknowledge .2726SENT. "2727``" And2728CCand you2729PPyou 're2730VBPbe reading2731VVGread the2732DTthe word2733NNword "2734``" actual2735JJactual "2736''" out2737INout of2738INof the2739DTthe statute2740NNstatute .2741SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]2742LOC[MR. VERRILLI] I2743PPI disagree2744VVPdisagree with2745INwith that2746DTthat characterization2747NNcharacterization .2748SENT. We2749PPwe think2750VVPthink the2751DTthe word2752NNword "2753``" actual2754JJactual "2755''" does2756VVZdo real2757JJreal and2758CCand substantial2759JJsubstantial work2760NNwork in2761INin our2762PP$our reading2763NNreading of2764INof the2765DTthe statute2766NNstatute .2767SENT. We2768PPwe 're2769VBPbe not2770RBnot arguing2771VVGargue that2772IN/thatthat you2773PPyou should2774MDshould read2775VVread this2776DTthis language2777NNlanguage as2778RBas though2779INthough it2780PPit were2781VBDbe a2782DTa broad2783JJbroad constructive2784JJconstructive knowledge2785NNknowledge standard2786NNstandard .2787SENT. A2788DTa broad2789JJbroad constructive2790JJconstructive knowledge2791NNknowledge standard2792NNstandard would2793MDwould be2794VBbe a2795DTa knew2796VVDknow or2797CCor should2798MDshould have2799VHhave known2800VVNknow standard2801JJstandard .2802SENT. And2803CCand if2804INif it2805PPit were2806VBDbe a2807DTa broad2808JJbroad constructive2809JJconstructive knowledge2810NNknowledge standard2811NNstandard ,2812,, then2813RBthen the2814DTthe disclosure2815NNdisclosure of2816INof the2817DTthe information2818NNinformation to2819TOto the2820DTthe plan2821NNplan participant2822NNparticipant ...2823:... even2824RBeven if2825INif the2826DTthe information2827NNinformation disclosed2828VVDdisclose itself2829PPitself would2830MDwould n't2831RBn't establish2832VVestablish the2833DTthe facts2834NNSfact of2835INof a2836DTa ...2837:... of2838INof a2839DTa breach2840NNbreach of2841INof fiduciary2842JJfiduciary duty2843NNduty ,2844,, if2845INif it2846PPit put2847VVDput the2848DTthe plan2849NNplan participant2850NNparticipant on2851INon notice2852NNnotice such2853JJsuch that2854IN/thatthat a2855DTa ...2856:... a2857DTa reasonable2858JJreasonable person2859NNperson would2860MDwould inquire2861VVinquire further2862RBRfurther ,2863,, that2864WDTthat would2865MDwould be2866VBbe a2867DTa constructive2868JJconstructive knowledge2869NNknowledge ,2870,, a2871DTa should2872MDshould have2873VHhave known2874VVNknow standard2875JJstandard .2876SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]2877LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] Does2878VVZdo an2879DTan entity2880NNentity like2881INlike your2882PP$your client2883NNclient have2884VHPhave the2885DTthe ability2886NNability to2887TOto determine2888VVdetermine whether2889INwhether someone2890NNsomeone to2891TOto whom2892WPwhom one2893CDone of2894INof these2895DTthese emails2896NNSemails with2897INwith the2898DTthe link2899NNlink is2900VBZbe sent2901VVNsend has2902VHZhave opened2903VVNopen up2904RPup the2905DTthe link2906NNlink ?2907SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]2908LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So2909INso we2910PPwe ...2911:... with2912INwith respect2913NNrespect to2914TOto this2915DTthis ,2916,, you2917PPyou know2918VVPknow ,2919,, in2920INin this2921DTthis case2922NNcase ,2923,, no2924RBno .2925SENT. Generally2926RBgenerally ,2927,, it2928PPit 's2929VBZbe difficult2930JJdifficult .2931SENT. [JUSTICE ALITO]2932LOC[JUSTICE ALITO] But2933CCbut you2934PPyou could2935MDcould do2936VVdo that2937IN/thatthat ,2938,, certainly2939RBcertainly Intel2940NPIntel would2941MDwould have2942VHhave the2943DTthe ability2944NNability to2945TOto do2946VVdo that2947IN/thatthat ,2948,, would2949MDwould n't2950RBn't it2951PPit ?2952SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]2953LOC[MR. VERRILLI] It2954PPit could2955MDcould ,2956,, I2957PPI think2958VVPthink ,2959,, yes2960UHyes .2961SENT. I2962PPI think2963VVPthink it2964PPit would2965MDwould be2966VBbe very2967RBvery difficult2968JJdifficult and2969CCand time-consuming2970JJtime-consuming .2971SENT. And2972CCand I2973PPI do2974VVPdo n't2975RBn't think2976VVthink it2977PPit would2978MDwould change2979VVchange the2980DTthe issue2981NNissue because2982INbecause I2983PPI think2984VVPthink ,2985,, even2986RBeven if2987INif we2988PPwe could2989MDcould establish2990VVestablish that2991IN/thatthat the2992DTthe ...2993:... that2994IN/thatthat the2995DTthe plan2996NNplan participant2997NNparticipant clicked2998VVDclick on2999INon the3000DTthe link3001NNlink ,3002,, then3003RBthen ...3004:... then3005RBthen the3006DTthe argument3007NNargument is3008VBZbe going3009VVGgo to3010TOto be3011VBbe the3012DTthe same3013JJsame argument3014NNargument .3015SENT. It3016PPit 's3017VBZbe going3018VVGgo to3019TOto be3020VBbe ,3021,, yeah3022RByeah ,3023,, I3024PPI clicked3025VVDclick on3026INon it3027PPit ,3028,, but3029CCbut I3030PPI did3031VVDdo n't3032RBn't read3033VVread it3034PPit ,3035,, or3036CCor I3037PPI read3038VVPread it3039PPit ,3040,, but3041CCbut I3042PPI did3043VVDdo n't3044RBn't remember3045VVremember it3046PPit ,3047,, and3048CCand ,3049,, therefore3050RBtherefore ,3051,, I3052PPI do3053VVPdo n't3054RBn't have3055VHhave the3056DTthe subjective3057JJsubjective awareness3058NNawareness that3059IN/thatthat the3060DTthe Ninth3061JJninth Circuit3062NNcircuit said3063VVDsay is3064VBZbe required3065VVNrequire .3066SENT. And3067CCand so3068INso I3069PPI ...3070:... I3071PPI do3072VVPdo n't3073RBn't think3074VVthink ...3075:... I3076PPI mean3077VVPmean ,3078,, I3079PPI understand3080VVPunderstand why3081WRBwhy you3082PPyou might3083MDmight think3084VVthink that3085IN/thatthat that3086DTthat 's3087VBZbe a3088DTa solution3089NNsolution ,3090,, Your3091PP$your Honor3092NPHonor ,3093,, but3094CCbut I3095PPI ...3096:... but3097CCbut I3098PPI do3099VVPdo n't3100RBn't think3101VVthink it3102PPit is3103VBZbe .3104SENT. I3105PPI think3106VVPthink it3107PPit just3108RBjust shifts3109VVZshift the3110DTthe problem3111NNproblem over3112INover a3113DTa little3114JJlittle bit3115NNbit ,3116,, but3117CCbut it3118PPit 's3119VBZbe the3120DTthe ...3121:... it3122PPit 's3123VBZbe the3124DTthe exact3125JJexact same3126JJsame problem3127NNproblem .3128SENT. And3129CCand I3130PPI think3131VVPthink it3132PPit points3133VVZpoint up3134RPup why3135WRBwhy the3136DTthe right3137JJright way3138NNway to3139TOto read3140VVread this3141DTthis statute3142NNstatute .3143SENT. Now3144RBnow we3145PPwe are3146VBPbe ...3147:... we3148PPwe are3149VBPbe arguing3150VVGargue for3151INfor an3152DTan imputation3153NNimputation of3154INof knowledge3155NNknowledge ,3156,, not3157RBnot an3158DTan empirical3159JJempirical assumption3160NNassumption .3161SENT. We3162PPwe are3163VBPbe doing3164VVGdo that3165RBthat .3166SENT. But3167CCbut we3168PPwe 're3169VBPbe doing3170VVGdo that3171IN/thatthat because3172INbecause we3173PPwe think3174VVPthink that3175DTthat is3176VBZbe the3177DTthe most3178RBSmost sensible3179JJsensible way3180NNway to3181TOto synch3182NNsynch up3183INup what3184WPwhat the3185DTthe statute3186NNstatute has3187VHZhave done3188VVNdo here3189RBhere ,3190,, which3191WDTwhich is3192VBZbe to3193TOto impose3194VVimpose a3195DTa very3196RBvery robust3197JJrobust disclosure3198NNdisclosure ,3199,, set3200VVNset of3201INof disclosure3202NNdisclosure obligations3203NNSobligation ,3204,, for3205INfor the3206DTthe purpose3207NNpurpose of3208INof giving3209VVGgive plan3210NNplan participants3211NNSparticipant the3212DTthe ability3213NNability to3214TOto police3215VVpolice their3216PP$their rights3217NNSright .3218SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3219LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Why3220NPWhy is3221VBZbe n't3222RBn't the3223DTthe ...3224:... [MR. VERRILLI]3225LOC[MR. VERRILLI] And3226CCand ...3227:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3228LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...3229:... way3230NNway ...3231:... sorry3232JJsorry ...3233:... why3234WRBwhy is3235VBZbe n't3236RBn't the3237DTthe way3238NNway to3239TOto think3240VVthink about3241INabout this3242DTthis that3243WDTthat ,3244,, as3245INas you3246PPyou say3247VVPsay ,3248,, this3249DTthis is3250VBZbe an3251DTan unusual3252JJunusual provision3253NNprovision ,3254,, and3255CCand you3256PPyou make3257VVPmake a3258DTa lot3259NNlot of3260INof strong3261JJstrong policy3262NNpolicy arguments3263NNSargument ,3264,, but3265CCbut ,3266,, for3267INfor whatever3268WDTwhatever reason3269NNreason ,3270,, in3271INin the3272DTthe amendment3273NNamendment of3274INof the3275DTthe statute3276NNstatute ,3277,, it3278PPit just3279RBjust came3280VVDcome out3281RPout in3282INin ...3283:... as3284INas actual3285JJactual knowledge3286NNknowledge ,3287,, and3288CCand it3289PPit 's3290VBZbe an3291DTan unusual3292JJunusual statute3293NNstatute ,3294,, but3295CCbut we3296PPwe stick3297VVPstick to3298TOto the3299DTthe words3300NNSword of3301INof the3302DTthe statute3303NNstatute ,3304,, and3305CCand Congress3306NPCongress can3307MDcan ,3308,, of3309INof course3310NNcourse ,3311,, fix3312VVfix it3313PPit to3314TOto bring3315VVbring it3316PPit in3317INin line3318NNline with3319INwith the3320DTthe other3321JJother constructive3322JJconstructive knowledge3323NNknowledge statutes3324NNSstatute if3325INif Congress3326NPCongress so3327RBso chooses3328VVZchoose ,3329,, but3330CCbut we3331PPwe should3332MDshould n't3333RBn't rewrite3334VVrewrite it3335PPit ourselves3336PPourselves .3337SENT. What3338WPWhat ...3339:... what3340WPwhat 's3341VBZbe wrong3342JJwrong with3343INwith thinking3344VVGthink about3345INabout this3346DTthis that3347DTthat way3348NNway ?3349SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]3350LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well3351UHWell ,3352,, Your3353PP$your Honor3354NPHonor ,3355,, in3356RBin ...3357:... in3358INin Yates3359NPYates ,3360,, the3361DTthe Court3362NPCourt concluded3363VVDconclude that3364IN/thatthat Fish3365NPFish was3366VBDbe not3367RBnot a3368DTa tangible3369JJtangible object3370NNobject ,3371,, even3372RBeven though3373RBthough ,3374,, in3375INin ordinary3376JJordinary English3377NNSEnglish ,3378,, it3379PPit 's3380VBZbe obviously3381RBobviously a3382DTa tangible3383JJtangible object3384NNobject .3385SENT. You3386PPyou can3387MDcan hold3388VVhold it3389PPit in3390INin your3391PP$your hand3392NNhand .3393SENT. In3394INin Brown3395NPBrown &3396CC& Williamson3397NPWilliamson ,3398,, the3399DTthe Court3400NPCourt concluded3401VVDconclude that3402IN/thatthat nicotine3403NNnicotine was3404VBDbe not3405RBnot a3406DTa drug3407NNdrug for3408INfor purposes3409NNSpurpose of3410INof the3411DTthe ...3412:... of3413INof the3414DTthe Food3415NPFood ,3416,, Drug3417NPDrug and3418CCand Cosmetic3419JJcosmetic Act3420NNact ,3421,, even3422RBeven though3423RBthough ,3424,, in3425INin common3426JJcommon understanding3427NNunderstanding ,3428,, it3429PPit can3430MDcan ...3431:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3432LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] But3433CCbut if3434INif we3435PPwe start3436VVPstart rewriting3437VVGrewrite ...3438:... [MR. VERRILLI]3439LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...3440:... obviously3441RBobviously be3442VBbe a3443DTa drug3444NNdrug .3445SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3446LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...3447:... if3448INif ...3449:... [MR. VERRILLI]3450LOC[MR. VERRILLI] And3451CCand so3452INso I3453PPI ...3454:... what3455WPwhat I3456PPI guess3457VVPguess I3458PPI would3459MDwould say3460VVsay is3461VBZbe that3462IN/thatthat I3463PPI do3464VVPdo n't3465RBn't think3466VVthink it3467PPit 's3468VBZbe rewriting3469VVGrewrite the3470DTthe statute3471NNstatute at3472INat all3473DTall .3474SENT. It3475PPit 's3476VBZbe taking3477VVGtake a3478DTa ...3479:... what3480WPwhat it3481PPit 's3482VBZbe doing3483VVGdo is3484VBZbe reading3485VVGread those3486DTthose words3487NNSword in3488INin context3489NNcontext in3490INin order3491NNorder to3492TOto make3493VVmake sense3494NNsense of3495INof the3496DTthe statute3497NNstatute as3498INas a3499DTa whole3500NNwhole ,3501,, which3502WDTwhich was3503VBDbe exactly3504RBexactly the3505DTthe analysis3506NNanalysis in3507INin Yates3508NPYates and3509CCand Brown3510NPBrown &3511CC& Williamson3512NPWilliamson and3513CCand last3514JJlast term3515NNterm in3516INin Jackson3517NPJackson with3518INwith respect3519NNrespect to3520TOto what3521WPwhat the3522DTthe word3523NNword "3524``" defendant3525NNdefendant "3526''" means3527NNSmean and3528CCand in3529INin King3530NPKing against3531INagainst Burwell3532NPBurwell .3533SENT. And3534CCand it3535PPit 's3536VBZbe that3537DTthat ...3538:... that3539DTthat ...3540:... all3541RBall we3542PPwe 're3543VBPbe urging3544VVGurge is3545VBZbe the3546DTthe Court3547NPCourt apply3548VVapply that3549DTthat same3550JJsame weight3551NNweight .3552SENT. Do3553VVPdo n't3554RBn't take3555VVtake the3556DTthe words3557NNSword in3558INin isolation3559NNisolation and3560CCand just3561RBjust look3562VVlook them3563PPthem up3564RPup in3565INin the3566DTthe dictionary3567NNdictionary .3568SENT. And3569CCand particularly3570RBparticularly do3571VVPdo n't3572RBn't do3573VVdo it3574PPit here3575RBhere because3576INbecause this3577DTthis ...3578:... this3579DTthis actual3580JJactual knowledge3581NNknowledge standard3582NNstandard that3583IN/thatthat my3584PP$my friends3585NNSfriend on3586INon the3587DTthe other3588JJother side3589NNside are3590VBPbe transplanting3591VVGtransplant here3592RBhere ,3593,, what3594WPwhat they3595PPthey 're3596VBPbe transplanting3597VVGtransplant is3598VBZbe a3599DTa body3600NNbody of3601INof ...3602:... of3603INof law3604NNlaw that3605WDTthat applies3606VVZapply in3607INin a3608DTa totally3609RBtotally different3610JJdifferent context3611NNcontext that3612WDTthat does3613VVZdo n't3614RBn't have3615VHhave anything3616NNanything to3617TOto do3618VVdo with3619INwith a3620DTa regime3621NNregime of3622INof disclosure3623NNdisclosure on3624INon a3625DTa statute3626NNstatute of3627INof limitations3628NNSlimitation .3629SENT. It3630PPit 's3631VBZbe about3632RBabout assessing3633VVGassess personal3634JJpersonal culpability3635NNculpability in3636INin the3637DTthe criminal3638JJcriminal and3639CCand enforcement3640NNenforcement context3641NNcontext .3642SENT. And3643CCand in3644INin this3645DTthis context3646NNcontext ,3647,, I3648PPI think3649VVPthink that3650IN/thatthat you3651PPyou 've3652VHPhave got3653VVNget to3654TOto read3655VVread these3656DTthese words3657NNSword in3658INin conjunction3659NNconjunction with3660INwith ...3661:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3662LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] But3663CCbut ,3664,, if3665INif we3666PPwe ...3667:... if3668INif we3669PPwe were3670VBDbe to3671TOto say3672VVsay what3673WPwhat you3674PPyou want3675VVPwant us3676PPus to3677TOto say3678VVsay here3679RBhere ,3680,, actual3681JJactual knowledge3682NNknowledge is3683VBZbe ,3684,, in3685INin effect3686NNeffect ,3687,, a3688DTa form3689NNform of3690INof constructive3691JJconstructive knowledge3692NNknowledge ,3693,, that3694WDTthat could3695MDcould open3696VVopen up3697RPup all3698DTall sorts3699NNSsort of3700INof problems3701NNSproblem in3702INin other3703JJother statutes3704NNSstatute down3705INdown the3706DTthe road3707NNroad that3708IN/thatthat we3709PPwe can3710MDcan 't3711RB't even3712RBeven foresee3713VVforesee here3714RBhere where3715WRBwhere the3716DTthe argument3717NNargument would3718MDwould be3719VBbe the3720DTthe constructive3721JJconstructive knowledge3722NNknowledge is3723VBZbe enough3724JJenough to3725TOto satisfy3726VVsatisfy a3727DTa knowledge3728NNknowledge requirement3729NNrequirement at3730INat this3731DTthis point3732NNpoint .3733SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]3734LOC[MR. VERRILLI] I3735PPI do3736VVPdo n't3737RBn't ...3738:... I3739PPI do3740VVPdo n't3741RBn't think3742VVthink so3743RBso for3744INfor two3745CDtwo reasons3746NNSreason ,3747,, Your3748PP$your Honor3749NPHonor .3750SENT. First3751RBfirst ,3752,, we3753PPwe 're3754VBPbe not3755RBnot asking3756VVGask you3757PPyou to3758TOto adopt3759VVadopt a3760DTa constructive3761JJconstructive knowledge3762NNknowledge standard3763NNstandard .3764SENT. We3765PPwe 're3766VBPbe asking3767VVGask you3768PPyou to3769TOto interpret3770VVinterpret the3771DTthe words3772NNSword "3773``" actual3774JJactual knowledge3775NNknowledge "3776''" to3777TOto include3778VVinclude the3779DTthe information3780NNinformation ,3781,, the3782DTthe knowledge3783NNknowledge that3784WDTthat is3785VBZbe transmitted3786VVNtransmit to3787TOto ,3788,, the3789DTthe information3790NNinformation that3791WDTthat is3792VBZbe made3793VVNmake known3794VVNknow to3795TOto the3796DTthe plan3797NNplan participants3798NNSparticipant through3799INthrough ...3800:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3801LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] That3802IN/thatthat sounds3803NNSsound like3804VVPlike ...3805:... [MR. VERRILLI]3806LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...3807:... its3808PP$its disclosures3809NNSdisclosure .3810SENT. [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]3811LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] ...3812:... constructive3813JJconstructive knowledge3814NNknowledge to3815TOto me3816PPme .3817SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]3818LOC[MR. VERRILLI] I3819PPI do3820VVPdo n't3821RBn't think3822VVthink so3823RBso ,3824,, Your3825PP$your Honor3826NPHonor ,3827,, in3828INin the3829DTthe same3830JJsame way3831NNway that3832IN/thatthat you3833PPyou ...3834:... you3835PPyou might3836MDmight say3837VVsay the3838DTthe same3839JJsame thing3840NNthing about3841INabout willful3842JJwillful blindness3843NNblindness being3844VBGbe constructive3845JJconstructive knowledge3846NNknowledge .3847SENT. But3848CCbut ...3849:... but3850CCbut I3851PPI think3852VVPthink it3853PPit 's3854VBZbe ...3855:... it3856PPit is3857VBZbe ...3858:... it3859PPit is3860VBZbe an3861DTan imputation3862NNimputation ,3863,, to3864TOto be3865VBbe sure3866JJsure ,3867,, but3868CCbut it3869PPit 's3870VBZbe an3871DTan imputation3872NNimputation with3873INwith ...3874:... that3875WDTthat 's3876VBZbe legitimately3877RBlegitimately within3878INwithin the3879DTthe meaning3880NNmeaning of3881INof the3882DTthe words3883NNSword "3884``" actual3885JJactual knowledge3886NNknowledge .3887SENT. "3888''" And3889CCand the3890DTthe other3891JJother thing3892NNthing I3893PPI would3894MDwould point3895VVpoint out3896RPout ,3897,, Your3898PP$your Honor3899NPHonor ,3900,, is3901VBZbe that3902IN/thatthat ,3903,, you3904PPyou know3905VVPknow ,3906,, until3907INuntil the3908DTthe Ninth3909JJninth Circuit3910NNcircuit ruled3911VVNrule in3912INin this3913DTthis case3914NNcase ,3915,, the3916DTthe rule3917NNrule that3918IN/thatthat everybody3919NNeverybody 's3920VHZhave been3921VBNbe living3922VVGlive under3923INunder ,3924,, ERISA3925NPERISA ,3926,, is3927VBZbe our3928PP$our rule3929NNrule .3930SENT. This3931DTthis is3932VBZbe the3933DTthe way3934NNway the3935DTthe courts3936NNScourt had3937VHDhave uniformly3938RBuniformly interpreted3939VVNinterpret it3940PPit until3941INuntil the3942DTthe Ninth3943JJninth Circuit3944NNcircuit in3945INin this3946DTthis case3947NNcase and3948CCand everybody3949NNeverybody understood3950VVDunderstand that3951IN/thatthat that3952DTthat 's3953VBZbe the3954DTthe way3955NNway the3956DTthe statute3957NNstatute operated3958VVDoperate .3959SENT. And3960CCand ...3961:... and3962CCand so3963RBso the3964DTthe ...3965:... in3966INin the3967DTthe ...3968:... so3969RBso ,3970,, in3971INin that3972DTthat sense3973NNsense ,3974,, I3975PPI do3976VVPdo n't3977RBn't think3978VVthink that3979IN/thatthat the3980DTthe problem3981NNproblem that3982IN/thatthat Your3983PP$your Honor3984NPHonor ...3985:... if3986INif the3987DTthe problem3988NNproblem that3989IN/thatthat Your3990PP$your Honor3991NPHonor has3992VHZhave identified3993VVNidentify is3994VBZbe a3995DTa problem3996NNproblem ,3997,, you3998PPyou would3999MDwould have4000VHhave seen4001VVNsee it4002PPit already4003RBalready .4004SENT. [JUSTICE GINSBURG]4005LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] Are4006VBPbe you4007PPyou ...4008:... are4009VBPbe you4010PPyou relying4011VVGrely on4012INon court4013NNcourt ...4014:... other4015JJother court4016NNcourt of4017INof appeals4018NNSappeal decisions4019NNSdecision that4020WDTthat says4021VVZsay "4022``" actual4023JJactual knowledge4024NNknowledge "4025``" means4026VVZmean you4027PPyou had4028VHDhave access4029NNaccess to4030TOto the4031DTthe information4032NNinformation ,4033,, the4034DTthe information4035NNinformation was4036VBDbe available4037JJavailable to4038TOto you4039PPyou ?4040SENT? Have4041VHPhave ...4042:... what4043WPwhat courts4044NNScourt have4045VHPhave held4046VVNhold that4047RBthat ?4048SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]4049LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So4050INso the4051DTthe ...4052:... the4053DTthe ...4054:... the4055DTthe ...4056:... the4057DTthe Eighth4058JJeighth Circuit4059NNcircuit decision4060NNdecision that4061WDTthat created4062VVDcreate the4063DTthe conflict4064NNconflict and4065CCand ...4066:... and4067CCand ...4068:... and4069CCand that4070IN/thatthat this4071DTthis case4072NNcase created4073VVDcreate the4074DTthe conflict4075NNconflict with4076INwith ,4077,, held4078VVDhold that4079IN/thatthat when4080WRBwhen you4081PPyou 've4082VHPhave received4083VVNreceive the4084DTthe information4085NNinformation ,4086,, you4087PPyou have4088VHPhave actual4089JJactual ...4090:... you4091PPyou have4092VHPhave it4093PPit .4094SENT. I4095PPI mean4096VVPmean ,4097,, the4098DTthe statute4099NNstatute says4100NNSsay had4101VHDhave actual4102JJactual knowledge4103NNknowledge .4104SENT. So4105RBso ...4106:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]4107LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] But4108CCbut are4109VBPbe there4110RBthere other4111JJother ...4112:... so4113RBso we4114PPwe have4115VHPhave the4116DTthe Eighth4117JJeighth Circuit4118NNcircuit and4119CCand the4120DTthe Ninth4121JJninth Circuit4122NNcircuit .4123SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]4124LOC[MR. VERRILLI] And4125CCand the4126DTthe ...4127:... the4128DTthe Second4129NPSecond Circuit4130NPCircuit interpreted4131VVDinterpret the4132DTthe language4133NNlanguage "4134``" had4135VHDhave actual4136JJactual knowledge4137NNknowledge "4138''" in4139INin a4140DTa different4141JJdifferent context4142NNcontext .4143SENT. We4144PPwe discuss4145VVPdiscuss this4146DTthis in4147INin our4148PP$our brief4149NNbrief .4150SENT. So4151RBso it4152PPit 's4153VBZbe not4154RBnot a4155DTa precise4156JJprecise holding4157NNholding on4158INon this4159DTthis issue4160NNissue .4161SENT. But4162CCbut it4163PPit interpreted4164VVDinterpret it4165PPit in4166INin a4167DTa way4168NNway that4169IN/thatthat we4170PPwe 've4171VHPhave interpreted4172VVNinterpret it4173PPit in4174INin a4175DTa ...4176:... in4177INin a4178DTa related4179JJrelated ERISA4180NPERISA statute4181NNstatute of4182INof limitations4183NNSlimitation context4184NNcontext .4185SENT. And4186CCand then4187RBthen you4188PPyou have4189VHPhave the4190DTthe consensus4191NNconsensus in4192INin the4193DTthe district4194NNdistrict courts4195NNScourt ,4196,, which4197WDTwhich actually4198RBactually have4199VHPhave got4200VVNget to4201TOto grapple4202VVgrapple with4203INwith this4204DTthis issue4205NNissue as4206INas a4207DTa practical4208JJpractical matter4209NNmatter in4210INin case4211NNcase after4212INafter case4213NNcase after4214INafter case4215NNcase .4216SENT. They4217PPthey 've4218VHPhave all4219RBall come4220VVNcome to4221TOto the4222DTthe conclusion4223NNconclusion that4224IN/thatthat you4225PPyou should4226MDshould read4227VVread the4228DTthe actual4229JJactual knowledge4230NNknowledge standard4231JJstandard to4232TOto be4233VBbe satisfied4234VVNsatisfy when4235WRBwhen you4236PPyou can4237MDcan demonstrate4238VVdemonstrate that4239IN/thatthat the4240DTthe ...4241:... that4242IN/thatthat the4243DTthe plan4244NNplan participant4245NNparticipant has4246VHZhave ...4247:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]4248LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] How4249NPHow ...4250:... how4251WRBhow many4252JJmany district4253NNdistrict courts4254NNScourt ?4255SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]4256LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So4257INso I4258PPI think4259VVPthink there4260EXthere are4261VBPbe ...4262:... I4263PPI do4264VVPdo n't4265RBn't know4266VVknow the4267DTthe exact4268JJexact number4269NNnumber off4270INoff the4271DTthe top4272NNtop of4273INof my4274PP$my head4275NNhead ,4276,, but4277CCbut I4278PPI think4279VVPthink it4280PPit 's4281VBZbe at4282INat least4283JJSleast a4284DTa half4285PDThalf a4286DTa dozen4287NNdozen or4288CCor so4289RBso ,4290,, maybe4291RBmaybe more4292JJRmore than4293INthan that4294IN/thatthat ,4295,, that4296WDTthat have4297VHPhave grappled4298VVNgrapple with4299INwith it4300PPit and4301CCand they4302PPthey 've4303VHPhave all4304RBall come4305VVNcome to4306TOto that4307DTthat conclusion4308NNconclusion .4309SENT. And4310CCand so4311RBso ...4312:... and4313CCand I4314PPI think4315VVPthink there4316EXthere 's4317VBZbe a4318DTa reason4319NNreason for4320INfor that4321WDTthat ,4322,, because4323INbecause it4324PPit 's4325VBZbe ...4326:... it4327PPit 's4328VBZbe an4329DTan understanding4330NNunderstanding that4331IN/thatthat the4332DTthe way4333NNway this4334DTthis system4335NNsystem is4336VBZbe supposed4337VVNsuppose to4338TOto work4339VVwork is4340VBZbe that4341IN/thatthat plan4342NNplan par4343NNpar ...4344:... plan4345NNplan participants4346NNSparticipant are4347VBPbe supposed4348VVNsuppose to4349TOto be4350VBbe apprised4351VVNapprise of4352INof the4353DTthe information4354NNinformation they4355PPthey need4356VVPneed to4357TOto ,4358,, in4359INin the4360DTthe words4361NNSword of4362INof the4363DTthe Senate4364NPSenate report4365NNreport of4366INof 19744367CD@card@ ,4368,, police4369VVpolice their4370PP$their rights4371NNSright .4372SENT. And4373CCand the4374DTthe way4375NNway ...4376:... and4377CCand they4378PPthey 're4379VBPbe given4380VVNgive an4381DTan express4382JJexpress private4383JJprivate right4384NNright of4385INof action4386NNaction in4387INin ERISA4388NPERISA to4389TOto police4390VVpolice their4391PP$their rights4392NNSright .4393SENT. And4394CCand so4395RBso ...4396:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4397LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] It4398PPit is4399VBZbe difficult4400JJdifficult to4401TOto imagine4402VVimagine a4403DTa half4404JJhalf dozen4405NNdozen out4406INout of4407INof 984408CD@card@ ,4409,, 994410CD@card@ district4411NNdistrict courts4412NNScourt as4413INas establishing4414VVGestablish a4415DTa firm4416NNfirm pattern4417NNpattern ,4418,, but4419CCbut put4420VVDput that4421IN/thatthat aside4422RBaside .4423SENT. You4424PPyou were4425VBDbe ...4426:... not4427RBnot you4428PPyou ,4429,, but4430CCbut I4431PPI think4432VVPthink whoever4433WPwhoever handled4434VVDhandle this4435DTthis case4436NNcase below4437RBbelow ...4438:... was4439VBDbe asked4440VVNask whether4441INwhether a4442DTa comatose4443JJcomatose person4444NNperson who4445WPwho received4446VVDreceive an4447DTan email4448NNemail with4449INwith this4450DTthis plan4451NNplan disclosure4452NNdisclosure ,4453,, would4454MDwould that4455DTthat person4456NNperson have4457VHPhave actual4458JJactual knowledge4459NNknowledge ?4460SENT? Could4461MDcould you4462PPyou answer4463VVanswer that4464DTthat question4465NNquestion ?4466SENT? And4467CCand let4468VVlet 's4469VBZbe put4470VVput aside4471RPaside the4472DTthe comatose4473JJcomatose person4474NNperson .4475SENT. Is4476VBZbe there4477RBthere an4478DTan obligation4479NNobligation on4480INon plan4481NNplan participants4482NNSparticipant to4483TOto actually4484RBactually open4485VVopen emails4486NNSemails ?4487SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]4488LOC[MR. VERRILLI] There4489EXthere 's4490VBZbe no4491DTno legal4492JJlegal obligation4493NNobligation to4494TOto do4495VVdo that4496DTthat .4497SENT. And4498CCand with4499INwith respect4500NNrespect to4501TOto some4502DTsome ...4503:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4504LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So4505RBso how4506WRBhow ...4507:... I4508PPI know4509VVPknow plenty4510NNplenty of4511INof people4512NNSpeople who4513WPwho never4514RBnever open4515VVPopen emails4516NNSemails or4517CCor only4518JJonly open4519JJopen emails4520NNSemails from4521INfrom certain4522JJcertain individuals4523NNSindividual or4524CCor in4525INin certain4526JJcertain situations4527NNSsituation .4528SENT. So4529RBso ,4530,, under4531INunder your4532PP$your theory4533NNtheory of4534INof the4535DTthe case4536NNcase ,4537,, those4538DTthose people4539NNSpeople ,4540,, the4541DTthe knowledge4542NNknowledge is4543VBZbe imputed4544VVNimpute merely4545RBmerely because4546INbecause they4547PPthey received4548VVDreceive the4549DTthe email4550NNemail ?4551SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]4552LOC[MR. VERRILLI] So4553RBso let4554VVlet me4555PPme take4556VVtake the4557DTthe comatose4558JJcomatose person4559NNperson first4560RBfirst ,4561,, that4562IN/thatthat I4563PPI think4564VVPthink in4565INin extreme4566JJextreme cases4567NNScase like4568VVPlike that4569IN/thatthat ,4570,, the4571DTthe way4572NNway the4573DTthe law4574NNlaw would4575MDwould handle4576VVhandle it4577PPit is4578VBZbe the4579DTthe way4580NNway the4581DTthe law4582NNlaw always4583RBalways handles4584VVZhandle it4585PPit ,4586,, through4587INthrough the4588DTthe doctrine4589NNdoctrine of4590INof equitable4591JJequitable tolling4592VVGtoll .4593SENT. In4594INin a4595DTa situation4596NNsituation like4597INlike that4598DTthat ,4599,, I4600PPI can4601MDcan 't4602RB't imagine4603VVimagine that4604IN/thatthat equitable4605JJequitable tolling4606VVGtoll would4607MDwould n't4608RBn't apply4609VVapply in4610INin that4611DTthat kind4612NNkind of4613INof an4614DTan extreme4615JJextreme case4616NNcase .4617SENT. Now4618RBnow I4619PPI will4620MDwill say4621VVsay ...4622:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4623LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] How4624WRBHow about4625RBabout ...4626:... how4627WRBhow about4628RBabout handling4629VVGhandle it4630PPit through4631INthrough the4632DTthe language4633NNlanguage of4634INof the4635DTthe statute4636NNstatute ,4637,, actual4638JJactual knowledge4639NNknowledge ?4640SENT? That4641DTthat person4642NNperson does4643VVZdo n't4644RBn't have4645VHhave actual4646JJactual knowledge4647NNknowledge .4648SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]4649LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well4650UHwell ,4651,, I4652PPI think4653VVPthink but4654CCbut then4655RBthen the4656DTthe ...4657:... the4658DTthe problem4659NNproblem with4660INwith reading4661VVGread it4662PPit that4663DTthat way4664NNway is4665VBZbe you4666PPyou create4667VVPcreate a4668DTa situation4669NNsituation in4670INin which4671WDTwhich there4672EXthere can4673MDcan never4674RBnever be4675VBbe summary4676JJsummary judgment4677NNjudgment in4678INin one4679CDone of4680INof these4681DTthese cases4682NNScase with4683INwith respect4684NNrespect to4685TOto the4686DTthe three-year4687JJthree-year statute4688NNstatute of4689INof limitations4690NNSlimitation ,4691,, and4692CCand so4693RBso you4694PPyou 're4695VBPbe imposing4696VVGimpose very4697RBvery substantial4698JJsubstantial burdens4699NNSburden on4700INon ...4701:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4702LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] No4703UHNo ,4704,, no4705UHno ,4706,, no4707UHno ...4708:... [MR. VERRILLI]4709LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...4710:... virtually4711RBvirtually everyone4712NNeveryone else4713RBelse .4714SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]4715LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] ...4716:... there4717EXthere 's4718VBZbe ...4719:... there4720EXthere 's4721VBZbe plenty4722NNplenty of4723INof emails4724NNSemails that4725IN/thatthat I4726PPI get4727VVPget that4728RBthat require4729VVrequire me4730PPme to4731TOto say4732VVsay that4733IN/thatthat I4734PPI 've4735VHPhave read4736VVNread the4737DTthe terms4738NNSterm and4739CCand conditions4740NNScondition .4741SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]4742LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Yes4743NPYes ,4744,, Your4745PP$your Honor4746NPHonor ,4747,, but4748CCbut I4749PPI think4750VVPthink that4751IN/thatthat what4752WPwhat the4753DTthe ...4754:... what4755WPwhat the4756DTthe plaintiff4757NNplaintiff ...4758:... Your4759PP$your Honor4760NPHonor would4761MDwould n't4762RBn't do4763VVdo this4764DTthis ,4765,, but4766CCbut what4767WPwhat a4768DTa plaintiff4769NNplaintiff would4770MDwould do4771VVdo in4772INin that4773DTthat situation4774NNsituation ,4775,, I4776PPI think4777VVPthink ,4778,, would4779MDwould say4780VVsay yes4781UHyes ,4782,, I4783PPI clicked4784VVDclick on4785INon the4786DTthe box4787NNbox ,4788,, but4789CCbut I4790PPI did4791VVDdo n't4792RBn't actually4793RBactually read4794VVread them4795PPthem ,4796,, so4797RBso I4798PPI did4799VVDdo n't4800RBn't actually4801RBactually have4802VHhave knowledge4803NNknowledge .4804SENT. And4805CCand I4806PPI do4807VVPdo think4808VVthink that4809IN/thatthat points4810NNSpoint up4811INup something4812NNsomething about4813INabout the4814DTthe argument4815NNargument my4816PP$my friends4817NNSfriend on4818INon the4819DTthe other4820JJother side4821NNside make4822VVmake .4823SENT. They4824PPthey do4825VVPdo say4826VVsay on4827INon page4828NNpage 14829CD1 of4830INof their4831PP$their brief4832NNbrief ,4833,, well4834RBwell ,4835,, if4836INif you4837PPyou read4838VVPread it4839PPit ,4840,, you4841PPyou have4842VHPhave actual4843JJactual knowledge4844NNknowledge .4845SENT. But4846CCbut you4847PPyou do4848VVPdo n't4849RBn't actually4850RBactually have4851VHPhave ...4852:... proof4853NNproof of4854INof you4855PPyou read4856VVPread it4857PPit does4858VVZdo n't4859RBn't establish4860VVestablish subjective4861JJsubjective awareness4862NNawareness .4863SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4864LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Well4865UHwell ,4866,, there4867EXthere 's4868VBZbe always4869RBalways a4870DTa possibility4871NNpossibility that4872IN/thatthat a4873DTa plaintiff4874NNplaintiff under4875INunder oath4876NNoath will4877MDwill tell4878VVtell the4879DTthe truth4880NNtruth .4881SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]4882LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Of4883INof course4884NNcourse .4885SENT. Of4886INof course4887NNcourse ,4888,, that4889WDTthat 's4890VBZbe right4891JJright ,4892,, Your4893PP$your Honor4894NPHonor ,4895,, but4896CCbut ...4897:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4898LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] And4899CCand so4900RBso he4901PPhe 'll4902MDwill say4903VVsay ,4904,, I4905PPI read4906VVPread it4907PPit .4908SENT. And4909CCand his4910PP$his attorney4911NNattorney will4912MDwill say4913VVsay if4914INif you4915PPyou read4916VVPread it4917PPit and4918CCand you4919PPyou say4920VVPsay you4921PPyou did4922VVDdo n't4923RBn't ,4924,, you4925PPyou 're4926VBPbe in4927INin trouble4928NNtrouble .4929SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]4930LOC[MR. VERRILLI] That4931DTthat 's4932VBZbe correct4933JJcorrect ,4934,, Your4935PP$your Honor4936NPHonor .4937SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]4938LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] All4939DTall right4940NNright .4941SENT. So4942RBso what4943WPwhat 's4944VBZbe the4945DTthe problem4946NNproblem ?4947SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]4948LOC[MR. VERRILLI] But4949CCbut even4950RBeven in4951INin the4952DTthe best4953JJSgood of4954INof circumstances4955NNScircumstance ,4956,, the4957DTthe ...4958:... the4959DTthe ...4960:... people4961NNSpeople 's4962POS's ability4963NNability to4964TOto recollect4965VVrecollect whether4966INwhether they4967PPthey read4968VVPread things4969NNSthing four4970CDfour or4971CCor five4972CDfive and4973CCand six4974CDsix years4975NNSyear earlier4976RBRearlier ,4977,, I4978PPI think4979VVPthink ,4980,, is4981VBZbe going4982VVGgo to4983TOto be4984VBbe ,4985,, you4986PPyou know4987VVPknow ,4988,, quite4989RBquite ...4990:... [JUSTICE BREYER]4991LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Well4992UHWell ,4993,, if4994INif they4995PPthey did4996VVDdo n't4997RBn't read4998VVread it4999PPit ...5000:... I5001PPI mean5002VVPmean ,5003,, you5004PPyou 've5005VHPhave been5006VBNbe ...5007:... you5008PPyou 've5009VHPhave heard5010VVNhear the5011DTthe argument5012NNargument .5013SENT. I5014PPI mean5015VVPmean ,5016,, if5017INif they5018PPthey did5019VVDdo n't5020RBn't ...5021:... if5022INif they5023PPthey did5024VVDdo n't5025RBn't read5026VVread it5027PPit ,5028,, I5029PPI mean5030VVPmean ,5031,, why5032WRBwhy ...5033:... why5034RBwhy ...5035:... why5036WRBwhy should5037MDshould they5038PPthey ?5039SENT? I5040PPI mean5041VVPmean ,5042,, these5043DTthese are5044VBPbe ordinary5045JJordinary workers5046NNSworker across5047INacross the5048DTthe country5049NNcountry .5050SENT. They5051PPthey do5052VVPdo n't5053RBn't read5054VVread everything5055NNeverything .5056SENT. And5057CCand if5058INif they5059PPthey did5060VVDdo n't5061RBn't read5062VVread it5063PPit ,5064,, then5065RBthen they5066PPthey did5067VVDdo n't5068RBn't read5069VVread it5070PPit .5071SENT. Then5072RBthen it5073PPit 's5074VBZbe six5075CDsix years5076NNSyear they5077PPthey have5078VHPhave .5079SENT. Why5080WRBwhy ...5081:... why5082WRBwhy is5083VBZbe that5084IN/thatthat a5085DTa problem5086NNproblem ?5087SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]5088LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well5089UHwell ,5090,, I5091PPI think5092VVPthink it5093PPit 's5094VBZbe a5095DTa problem5096NNproblem for5097INfor ...5098:... for5099INfor ...5100:... I5101PPI can5102MDcan think5103VVthink of5104INof at5105INat least5106JJSleast three5107CDthree reasons5108NNSreason why5109WRBwhy it5110PPit 's5111VBZbe a5112DTa problem5113NNproblem .5114SENT. You5115PPyou 're5116VBPbe going5117VVGgo to5118TOto ...5119:... you5120PPyou 're5121VBPbe ...5122:... you5123PPyou 're5124VBPbe taking5125VVGtake the5126DTthe period5127NNperiod in5128INin which5129WDTwhich a5130DTa plan5131NNplan is5132VBZbe subject5133JJsubject to5134TOto hindsight5135NNhindsight bias5136NNbias with5137INwith respect5138NNrespect to5139TOto its5140PP$its investment5141NNinvestment decisions5142NNSdecision and5143CCand doubling5144VVGdouble it5145PPit from5146INfrom three5147CDthree years5148NNSyear to5149TOto six5150CDsix years5151NNSyear ,5152,, which5153WDTwhich means5154VVZmean not5155RBnot only5156RBonly are5157VBPbe the5158DTthe plans5159NNSplan going5160VVGgo to5161TOto be5162VBbe vulnerable5163JJvulnerable to5164TOto litigation5165NNlitigation over5166INover that5167DTthat whole5168JJwhole six-year5169JJsix-year period5170NNperiod ,5171,, but5172CCbut the5173DTthe amount5174NNamount of5175INof damages5176NNSdamage could5177MDcould be5178VBbe considerably5179RBconsiderably higher5180JJRhigh .5181SENT. And5182CCand I5183PPI would5184MDwould think5185VVthink ,5186,, if5187INif anything5188NNanything ,5189,, in5190INin a5191DTa case5192NNcase where5193WRBwhere you5194PPyou 're5195VBPbe talking5196VVGtalk about5197INabout breach5198NNbreach of5199INof fiduciary5200JJfiduciary duty5201NNduty ,5202,, what5203WPwhat you5204PPyou 'd5205MDwould want5206VVwant is5207VBZbe an5208DTan intervention5209NNintervention sooner5210RBRsooner rather5211RBrather than5212INthan later5213RBRlater to5214TOto get5215VVget to5216TOto ...5217:... to5218TOto ...5219:... to5220TOto cure5221VVcure the5222DTthe breach5223NNbreach .5224SENT. So5225RBso that5226DTthat seems5227VVZseem to5228TOto me5229PPme a5230DTa very5231RBvery substantial5232JJsubstantial problem5233NNproblem and5234CCand a5235DTa problem5236NNproblem that5237WDTthat inures5238VVZinure to5239TOto the5240DTthe detriment5241NNdetriment of5242INof plan5243NNplan participants5244NNSparticipant ,5245,, of5246INof course5247NNcourse ,5248,, because5249INbecause those5250DTthose are5251VBPbe costs5252NNScost to5253TOto the5254DTthe plan5255NNplan and5256CCand those5257DTthose ...5258:... and5259CCand that5260DTthat kind5261NNkind of5262INof excessive5263JJexcessive liability5264NNliability can5265MDcan discourage5266VVdiscourage the5267DTthe creations5268NNScreation of5269INof plans5270NNSplan in5271INin the5272DTthe first5273JJfirst place5274NNplace ,5275,, which5276WDTwhich is5277VBZbe why5278WRBwhy this5279DTthis Court5280NPCourt has5281VHZhave always5282RBalways said5283VVDsay you5284PPyou ...5285:... you5286PPyou have5287VHPhave to5288TOto approach5289VVapproach ERISA5290NPERISA in5291INin a5292DTa balanced5293JJbalanced manner5294NNmanner .5295SENT. And5296CCand that5297DTthat kind5298NNkind of5299INof balance5300NNbalance is5301VBZbe what5302WPwhat we5303PPwe 're5304VBPbe advocating5305VVGadvocate for5306INfor here5307RBhere .5308SENT. Second5309RBsecond ,5310,, I5311PPI think5312VVPthink it5313PPit will5314MDwill introduce5315VVintroduce an5316DTan element5317NNelement of5318INof randomness5319NNrandomness and5320CCand inadministrability5321NNinadministrability to5322TOto the5323DTthe statute5324NNstatute because5325INbecause it5326PPit 's5327VBZbe always5328RBalways ...5329:... virtually5330RBvirtually always5331RBalways ...5332:... maybe5333RBmaybe there5334EXthere 's5335VBZbe going5336VVGgo to5337TOto be5338VBbe the5339DTthe rare5340JJrare case5341NNcase that5342IN/thatthat Your5343PP$your Honor5344NPHonor hypothesized5345VVNhypothesize where5346WRBwhere the5347DTthe ...5348:... where5349WRBwhere the5350DTthe ...5351:... the5352DTthe plaintiff5353NNplaintiff testifies5354VVZtestify ,5355,, yes5356UHyes ,5357,, I5358PPI did5359VVDdo read5360VVread it5361PPit ;5362:; yes5363UHyes ,5364,, I5365PPI did5366VVDdo remember5367VVremember it5368PPit .5369SENT. But5370CCbut ,5371,, in5372INin most5373JJSmost cases5374NNScase ,5375,, it5376PPit 's5377VBZbe going5378VVGgo to5379TOto be5380VBbe inferences5381NNSinference from5382INfrom circumstantial5383JJcircumstantial evidence5384NNevidence .5385SENT. And5386CCand I5387PPI think5388VVPthink it5389PPit 's5390VBZbe going5391VVGgo to5392TOto be5393VBbe some5394DTsome courts5395NNScourt going5396VVGgo one5397CDone way5398NNway based5399VVNbase on5400INon inferences5401NNSinference from5402INfrom circumstantial5403JJcircumstantial evidence5404NNevidence ,5405,, other5406JJother courts5407NNScourt going5408VVGgo a5409DTa different5410JJdifferent way5411NNway based5412VVNbase on5413INon inferences5414NNSinference ...5415:... inferences5416NNSinference from5417INfrom the5418DTthe same5419JJsame kind5420NNkind of5421INof ...5422:... [JUSTICE KAVANAUGH]5423LOC[JUSTICE KAVANAUGH] Mr5424NPMr .5425SENT. Verrilli5426NPVerrilli ,5427,, you5428PPyou seem5429VVPseem to5430TOto ...5431:... [JUSTICE GINSBURG]5432LOC[JUSTICE GINSBURG] What5433WPWhat would5434MDwould the5435DTthe circumstantial5436JJcircumstantial evidence5437NNevidence be5438VBbe ?5439SENT? [MR. VERRILLI]5440LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well5441UHWell ,5442,, I5443PPI ...5444:... you5445PPyou know5446VVPknow ,5447,, I5448PPI suppose5449VVPsuppose it5450PPit would5451MDwould be5452VBbe evidence5453NNevidence like5454INlike we5455PPwe had5456VHDhave in5457INin this5458DTthis case5459NNcase ,5460,, that5461WDTthat ...5462:... that5463DTthat ...5464:... that5465IN/thatthat the5466DTthe plaintiff5467NNplaintiff visited5468VVDvisit the5469DTthe website5470NNwebsite 685471CD@card@ times5472NNStime and5473CCand clicked5474VVDclick on5475INon 1,0005476CD@card@ links5477NNSlink and5478CCand ...5479:... and5480CCand clicked5481VVDclick on5482RPon ...5483:... in5484INin particular5485JJparticular on5486INon a5487DTa link5488NNlink that5489WDTthat said5490VVDsay that5491IN/thatthat he5492PPhe was5493VBDbe going5494VVGgo to5495TOto attend5496VVattend a5497DTa seminar5498NNseminar explaining5499VVGexplain the5500DTthe investment5501NNinvestment options5502NNSoption ,5503,, which5504WDTwhich he5505PPhe then5506RBthen said5507VVDsay he5508PPhe did5509VVDdo n't5510RBn't attend5511VVattend .5512SENT. I5513PPI mean5514VVPmean ...5515:... but5516CCbut I5517PPI think5518VVPthink that5519DTthat 's5520VBZbe what5521WPwhat ...5522:... you5523PPyou 're5524VBPbe just5525RBjust going5526VVGgo to5527TOto have5528VHhave random5529JJrandom results5530NNSresult in5531INin district5532NNdistrict court5533NNcourt .5534SENT. And5535CCand I5536PPI think5537VVPthink with5538INwith respect5539NNrespect to5540TOto a5541DTa statute5542NNstatute of5543INof limitations5544NNSlimitation ,5545,, one5546CDone thing5547NNthing that5548IN/thatthat one5549PPone would5550MDwould want5551VVwant is5552VBZbe consistent5553JJconsistent application5554NNapplication so5555INso that5556DTthat ...5557:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5558LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Mr5559NPMr .5560SENT. Verrilli5561NPVerrilli ,5562,, we5563PPwe have5564VHPhave ...5565:... we5566PPwe have5567VHPhave consistent5568JJconsistent application5569NNapplication .5570SENT. We5571PPwe have5572VHPhave a5573DTa backstop5574NNbackstop of5575INof six5576CDsix years5577NNSyear ,5578,, as5579INas Justice5580NPJustice Ginsburg5581NPGinsburg 's5582POS's pointed5583VVDpoint out5584RPout .5585SENT. And5586CCand these5587DTthese are5588VBPbe very5589RBvery good5590JJgood policy5591NNpolicy arguments5592NNSargument for5593INfor maybe5594RBmaybe making5595VVGmake that5596IN/thatthat shorter5597JJRshort ,5598,, but5599CCbut those5600DTthose are5601VBPbe n't5602RBn't our5603PP$our ...5604:... that5605WDTthat 's5606VBZbe not5607RBnot our5608PP$our province5609NNprovince .5610SENT. That5611DTthat belongs5612VVZbelong across5613INacross the5614DTthe street5615NNstreet .5616SENT. So5617RBso I5618PPI guess5619VVPguess I5620PPI 'm5621VBPbe wondering5622VVGwonder ,5623,, what5624WDTwhat ...5625:... what5626WPwhat cut5627VVDcut do5628VVPdo these5629DTthese policy5630NNpolicy arguments5631NNSargument have5632VHPhave ?5633SENT? You5634PPyou 're5635VBPbe not5636RBnot suggesting5637VVGsuggest that5638IN/thatthat an5639DTan irrational5640JJirrational Congress5641NPCongress ...5642:... only5643RBonly an5644DTan irrational5645JJirrational Congress5646NPCongress could5647MDcould ...5648:... could5649MDcould come5650VVcome up5651RPup with5652INwith a5653DTa scheme5654NNscheme in5655INin which5656WDTwhich six5657CDsix years5658NNSyear is5659VBZbe the5660DTthe backstop5661NNbackstop ,5662,, such5663JJsuch that5664IN/thatthat it5665PPit 's5666VBZbe ...5667:... you5668PPyou know5669VVPknow ,5670,, it5671PPit would5672MDwould be5673VBbe beyond5674INbeyond the5675DTthe pale5676NNpale to5677TOto imagine5678VVimagine a5679DTa Congress5680NPCongress ...5681:... [MR. VERRILLI]5682LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well5683UHWell ,5684,, I5685PPI would5686MDwould ...5687:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5688LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...5689:... that5690WDTthat could5691MDcould come5692VVcome up5693RPup with5694INwith a5695DTa scheme5696NNscheme that5697WDTthat would5698MDwould require5699VVrequire ...5700:... [MR. VERRILLI]5701LOC[MR. VERRILLI] May5702MDmay I5703PPI answer5704VVanswer ?5705SENT? [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]5706LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Yes5707NPYes .5708SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]5709LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Thank5710VVthank you5711PPyou .5712SENT. So5713RBso ,5714,, Justice5715NPJustice Gorsuch5716NPGorsuch ,5717,, what5718WDTwhat I5719PPI ...5720:... with5721INwith respect5722NNrespect to5723TOto that5724WDTthat ,5725,, I5726PPI think5727VVPthink that5728IN/thatthat you5729PPyou have5730VHPhave to5731TOto impart5732VVimpart the5733DTthe rationality5734NNrationality to5735TOto Congress5736NPCongress also5737RBalso with5738INwith respect5739NNrespect to5740TOto the5741DTthe three5742CDthree years5743NNSyear ,5744,, that5745WDTthat it5746PPit 's5747VBZbe in5748RBin there5749RBthere for5750INfor a5751DTa reason5752NNreason .5753SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5754LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Uh-huh5755NPUh-huh .5756SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]5757LOC[MR. VERRILLI] The5758DTthe reason5759NNreason is5760VBZbe to5761TOto protect5762VVprotect plans5763NNSplan when5764WRBwhen they5765PPthey have5766VHPhave ...5767:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5768LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Well5769UHWell ,5770,, both5771DTboth sides5772NNSside agree5773VVPagree that5774IN/thatthat there5775EXthere 's5776VBZbe a5777DTa reason5778NNreason for5779INfor it5780PPit .5781SENT. They5782PPthey just5783RBjust disagree5784VVPdisagree what5785WPwhat that5786DTthat reason5787NNreason is5788VBZbe .5789SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]5790LOC[MR. VERRILLI] Well5791UHWell ,5792,, I5793PPI ...5794:... but5795CCbut I5796PPI think5797VVPthink ...5798:... respectfully5799RBrespectfully ,5800,, what5801WPwhat I5802PPI would5803MDwould suggest5804VVsuggest is5805VBZbe ...5806:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]5807LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] All5808DTall right5809NNright .5810SENT. [MR. VERRILLI]5811LOC[MR. VERRILLI] ...5812:... we're5813NNwe're ...5814:... we5815PPwe 're5816VBPbe suggesting5817VVGsuggest a5818DTa real5819JJreal reason5820NNreason that5821WDTthat makes5822VVZmake sense5823NNsense in5824INin light5825NNlight of5826INof the5827DTthe disclosure5828NNdisclosure obligations5829NNSobligation .5830SENT. They5831PPthey 're5832VBPbe coming5833VVGcome a5834DTa hair5835NNhair 's5836POS's breadth5837NNbreadth within5838INwithin reading5839VVGread it5840PPit out5841RPout of5842INof the5843DTthe statute5844NNstatute .5845SENT. Thank5846VVthank you5847PPyou .5848SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]5849LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank5850VVthank you5851PPyou ,5852,, counsel5853NNcounsel .5854SENT. Mr5855NPMr .5856SENT. Wessler5857NPWessler .5858SENT.