[MR. FISHER J.]21LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Mr22NPMr .23SENT. Chief24NPChief Justice25NPJustice ,26,, and27CCand may28MDmay it29PPit please30VVplease the31DTthe Court32NPCourt :33:: The34DTthe IOIA35NPIOIA gives36VVZgive international37JJinternational organizations38NNSorganization "39''" the40DTthe same41JJsame immunity42NNimmunity from43INfrom suit44NNsuit as45RBas is46VBZbe enjoyed47VVNenjoy by48INby foreign49JJforeign governments50NNSgovernment .51SENT. "52``" The53DTthe plain54JJplain text55NNtext of56INof this57DTthis provision58NNprovision ,59,, coupled60VVNcouple with61INwith the62DTthe structure63NNstructure of64INof the65DTthe IOIA66NPIOIA and67CCand the68DTthe drafting69VVGdraft history70NNhistory ,71,, make72VVmake clear73JJclear that74IN/thatthat the75DTthe same76JJsame immunity77NNimmunity provision78NNprovision gives79VVZgive international80JJinternational organizations81NNSorganization the82DTthe same83JJsame immunity84NNimmunity that85IN/thatthat foreign86JJforeign governments87NNSgovernment are88VBPbe entitled89VVNentitle to90TOto today91NNtoday under92INunder the93DTthe Foreign94NPForeign Sovereign95NPSovereign Immunity96NNimmunity Act97NPAct .98SENT. Starting99VVGstart with100INwith the101DTthe text102NNtext ,103,, my104PP$my opponents105NNSopponent do106VVPdo not107RBnot dispute108VVdispute that109IN/thatthat ,110,, as111INas a112DTa general113JJgeneral rule114NNrule ,115,, when116WRBwhen a117DTa statutory118JJstatutory provision119NNprovision refers120VVZrefer to121TOto another122DTanother body123NNbody of124INof law125NNlaw ,126,, especially127RBespecially ,128,, as129INas here130RBhere ,131,, in132INin the133DTthe present134JJpresent tense135NNtense ,136,, that137DTthat body138NNbody of139INof law140NNlaw is141VBZbe incorporated142VVNincorporate as143RBas of144INof the145DTthe moment146NNmoment of147INof suit148NNsuit in149INin any150DTany given151VVNgive case152NNcase .153SENT. And154CCand ,155,, indeed156RBindeed ,157,, they158PPthey ...159:... [JUSTICE BREYER]160LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] So161INso the162DTthe ...163:... [MR. FISHER J.]164LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Do165VVPdo n't166RBn't dispute167VVdispute ...168:... [JUSTICE BREYER]169LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...170:... the171DTthe hornbooks172NNShornbook that173IN/thatthat I174PPI looked175VVDlook up176RPup ,177,, I178PPI mean179VVPmean ,180,, going181VVGgo back182RBback forever183RBforever ,184,, do185VVPdo n't186RBn't say187VVsay quite188RBquite that189RBthat .190SENT. They191PPthey say192VVPsay that193WDTthat 's194VBZbe true195JJtrue as196RBas long197RBlong as198INas the199DTthe changes200NNSchange are201VBPbe consistent202JJconsistent with203INwith the204DTthe purpose205NNpurpose of206INof the207DTthe adopting208VVGadopt statute209NNstatute .210SENT. And211CCand ,212,, indeed213RBindeed ,214,, the215DTthe Indian216JJIndian case217NNcase ,218,, you219PPyou know220VVPknow ,221,, the222DTthe word223NNword was224VBDbe "225``" now226RBnow ,227,, "228''" was229VBDbe it230PPit now231RBnow 1934232CD@card@ or233CCor now234RBnow later235RBRlater ?236SENT? In237INin the238DTthe case239NNcase we240PPwe wrote241VVDwrite last242JJlast term243NNterm that244IN/thatthat Justice245NPJustice Gorsuch246NPGorsuch wrote247VVDwrite ,248,, the249DTthe word250NNword was251VBDbe "252``" monetary253JJmonetary relief254NNrelief .255SENT. "256''" Does257VVZdo that258DTthat mean259NNmean as260INas of261INof the262DTthe past263NNpast ,264,, or265CCor does266VVZdo it267PPit mean268VVmean what269WPwhat we270PPwe call271VVPcall money272NNmoney relief273NNrelief now274RBnow ?275SENT? I276PPI mean277VVPmean ,278,, there279EXthere are280VBPbe many281JJmany cases282NNScase like283INlike that284DTthat .285SENT. And286CCand here287RBhere the288DTthe word289NNword is290VBZbe "291``" is292VBZbe .293SENT. "294''" Does295VVZdo the296DTthe word297NNword "298``" is299VBZbe "300``" refer301VVrefer to302TOto the303DTthe past304JJpast ,305,, "306''" is307VBZbe "308``" at309INat the310DTthe moment311NNmoment of312INof passage313NNpassage ,314,, or315CCor later316RBRlater ?317SENT? The318DTthe two319CDtwo arguments320NNSargument that321IN/thatthat I322PPI 'd323MDwould like324VVlike you325PPyou to326TOto address327VVaddress that328WDTthat are329VBPbe opposite330JJopposite you331PPyou are332VBPbe ,333,, one334CDone ,335,, states336NNSstate do337VVPdo many338JJmany things339NNSthing ,340,, nations341NNSnation ,342,, many343JJmany ,344,, many345JJmany things346NNSthing ,347,, and348CCand so349RBso ,350,, if351INif we352PPwe take353VVPtake immunity354NNimmunity from355INfrom them356PPthem for357INfor commercial358JJcommercial things359NNSthing ,360,, we361PPwe leave362VVPleave lots363NNSlot of364INof immunity365NNimmunity with366INwith them367PPthem for368INfor those369DTthose other370JJother things371NNSthing .372SENT. But373CCbut international374JJinternational organizations375NNSorganization ,376,, some377DTsome of378INof them379PPthem ,380,, do381VVdo only382RBonly one383CDone thing384NNthing :385:: lend386VVlend money387NNmoney or388CCor the389DTthe equivalent390NNequivalent .391SENT. And392CCand if393INif we394PPwe take395VVPtake immunity396NNimmunity from397INfrom them398PPthem ,399,, that400WDTthat 's401VBZbe the402DTthe end403NNend of404INof the405DTthe immunity406NNimmunity or407CCor close408NNclose .409SENT. That410DTthat 's411VBZbe one412CDone argument413NNargument .414SENT. The415DTthe second416NNsecond is417VBZbe this418DTthis :419:: If420INif we421PPwe decide422VVPdecide against423INagainst you424PPyou ,425,, and426CCand we427PPwe 've428VHPhave made429VVNmake a430DTa mistake431NNmistake ,432,, or433CCor along434RBalong comes435VVZcome a436DTa case437NNcase where438WRBwhere they439PPthey really440RBreally should441MDshould have442VHhave immunity443NNimmunity ,444,, the445DTthe President446NPPresident and447CCand the448DTthe State449NPState Department450NPDepartment can451MDcan give452VVgive it453PPit to454TOto them455PPthem .456SENT. If457INif we458PPwe decide459VVPdecide with460INwith you461PPyou ,462,, well463RBwell ,464,, if465INif along466RBalong comes467VVZcome a468DTa case469NNcase where470WRBwhere they471PPthey should472MDshould enjoy473VVenjoy the474DTthe immunity475NNimmunity ,476,, no477UHno ,478,, nobody479NNnobody can480MDcan do481VVdo anything482NNanything .483SENT. Did484VVDdo I485PPI say486VVPsay that487IN/thatthat correctly488RBcorrectly ?489SENT? Have490VHPhave you491PPyou got492VVDget the493DTthe argument494NNargument ...495:... [MR. FISHER J.]496LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Okay497NPOkay .498SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]499LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...500:... I501PPI might502MDmight have503VHhave said504VVNsay it505PPit backwards506JJbackwards .507SENT. [MR. FISHER J.]508LOC[MR. FISHER J.] No509UHNo ,510,, no511UHno ,512,, no513UHno .514SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]515LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Did516VVDdo I517PPI say518VVPsay it519PPit right520RBright ?521SENT? [MR. FISHER J.]522LOC[MR. FISHER J.] So523INso I524PPI think525VVPthink you526PPyou gave527VVDgive me528PPme two529CDtwo things530NNSthing and531CCand then532RBthen one533CDone before534INbefore it535PPit ,536,, which537WDTwhich was538VBDbe the539DTthe statutory540JJstatutory text541NNtext .542SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]543LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yes544NPYes .545SENT. That546DTthat 's547VBZbe right548JJright .549SENT. [MR. FISHER J.]550LOC[MR. FISHER J.] So551RBso let552VVDlet me553PPme start554VVPstart with555INwith the556DTthe statutory557JJstatutory text558NNtext ,559,, Justice560NPJustice Breyer561NPBreyer .562SENT. And563CCand the564DTthe word565NNword "566``" is567VBZbe "568``" in569INin this570DTthis Court571NPCourt 's572POS's jurisprudence573NNjurisprudence always574RBalways ,575,, always576RBalways means577VVZmean at578INat the579DTthe time580NNtime of581INof suit582NNsuit ,583,, not584RBnot at585INat the586DTthe time587NNtime the588DTthe statute589NNstatute was590VBDbe passed591VVNpass .592SENT. And593CCand we594PPwe 've595VHPhave cited596VVNcite reams597NNSream of598INof cases599NNScase to600TOto that601DTthat effect602NNeffect .603SENT. My604PP$my opponents605NNSopponent cite606VVPcite only607RBonly one608CDone case609NNcase on610INon the611DTthe other612JJother side613NNside ,614,, that615WDTthat 's616VBZbe an617DTan Armed618NPArmed Career619NPCareer Criminal620NPCriminal Act621NPAct case622NNcase .623SENT. Even624RBeven there625EXthere ,626,, "627``" is628VBZbe "629``" did630VVDdo n't631RBn't mean632VVmean at633INat the634DTthe time635NNtime of636INof suit637NNsuit ;638:; it639PPit meant640VVDmean at641INat the642DTthe time643NNtime of644INof the645DTthe prior646JJprior conviction647NNconviction .648SENT. So649RBso "650``" is651VBZbe "652``" is653VBZbe on654INon our655PP$our side656NNside of657INof this658DTthis case659NNcase .660SENT. But661CCbut ,662,, in663INin Carcieri664NPCarcieri ,665,, which666WDTwhich is667VBZbe the668DTthe "669``" now670RBnow "671''" case672NNcase ,673,, the674DTthe Indian675JJIndian case676NNcase ,677,, the678DTthe Court679NPCourt went680VVDgo out681RPout of682INof its683PP$its way684NNway in685INin that686DTthat opinion687NNopinion to688TOto say689VVsay the690DTthe insertion691NNinsertion of692INof the693DTthe word694NNword "695``" now696RBnow "697``" takes698VVZtake us699PPus out700RPout of701INof the702DTthe ordinary703JJordinary situation704NNsituation ,705,, which706WDTwhich is707VBZbe when708WRBwhen the709DTthe referenced710VVNreference law711NNlaw applies712VVZapply at713INat the714DTthe time715NNtime of716INof suit717NNsuit .718SENT. And719CCand so720RBso you721PPyou can722MDcan look723VVlook at724INat the725DTthe Sutherland726NPSutherland treatise727NNtreatise ,728,, which729WDTwhich dates730VVZdate back731RBback to732TOto 1904733CD@card@ ,734,, on735INon this736DTthis principle737NNprinciple .738SENT. And739CCand look740VVlook at741INat its742PP$its ...743:... in744INin ...745:... in746INin your747PP$your own748JJown case749NNcase ,750,, Justice751NPJustice Breyer752NPBreyer ,753,, I754PPI think755VVPthink if756INif I757PPI was758VBDbe going759VVGgo to760TOto give761VVgive you762PPyou one763CDone case764NNcase ,765,, it766PPit would767MDwould be768VBbe the769DTthe Steamboat770NNsteamboat versus771INversus Chase772NPChase case773NNcase we774PPwe cite775VVPcite in776INin our777PP$our reply778NNreply brief779NNbrief .780SENT. That781DTthat 's782VBZbe interpreting783VVGinterpret the784DTthe Judiciary785NPJudiciary Act786NPAct ,787,, which788WDTwhich goes789VVZgo all790PDTall the791DTthe way792NNway back793RBback to794TOto the795DTthe founding796NNfounding ,797,, of798INof course799NNcourse ,800,, and801CCand says802VVZsay where803WRBwhere the804DTthe common805JJcommon law806NNlaw is807VBZbe competent808JJcompetent to809TOto give810VVgive a811DTa remedy812NNremedy ,813,, such814JJsuch and815CCand such816JJsuch a817DTa remedy818NNremedy is819VBZbe permissible820JJpermissible .821SENT. And822CCand in823INin Steamboat824NNsteamboat ,825,, the826DTthe Court827NPCourt rejected828VVDreject the829DTthe exact830JJexact argument831NNargument the832DTthe other833JJother side834NNside makes835VVZmake here836RBhere ,837,, which838WDTwhich is839VBZbe ,840,, first841JJfirst of842INof all843DTall ,844,, that845IN/thatthat the846DTthe law847NNlaw had848VHDhave to849TOto be850VBbe incorporated851VVNincorporate at852INat the853DTthe time854NNtime of855INof suit856NNsuit and857CCand ,858,, second859JJsecond of860INof all861DTall ,862,, that863IN/thatthat there864EXthere was865VBDbe something866NNsomething different867JJdifferent about868INabout the869DTthe common870JJcommon law871NNlaw as872RBas to873TOto a874DTa statute875NNstatute at876INat the877DTthe time878NNtime of879INof the880DTthe enactment881NNenactment .882SENT. So883RBso all884RBall of885INof the886DTthe textual887JJtextual stuff888NNstuff is889VBZbe in890INin our891PP$our favor892NNfavor .893SENT. Now894RBnow you895PPyou 've896VHPhave also897RBalso asked898VVDask me899PPme two900CDtwo other901JJother questions902NNSquestion and903CCand let904VVlet me905PPme address906VVaddress them907PPthem .908SENT. So909RBso starting910VVGstart with911INwith the912DTthe commercial913JJcommercial activity914NNactivity exception915NNexception as916RBas applied917VVDapply to918TOto a919DTa group920NNgroup like921INlike the922DTthe IFC923NPIFC ,924,, when925WRBwhen you926PPyou answer927VVPanswer ...928:... when929WRBwhen you930PPyou think931VVPthink of932INof that933DTthat question934NNquestion ,935,, it936PPit 's937VBZbe a938DTa question939NNquestion of940INof how941WRBhow close942JJclose you943PPyou ...944:... you945PPyou put946VVDput the947DTthe lens948NNlens into949INinto what950WPwhat 's951VBZbe going952VVGgo on953INon here954RBhere .955SENT. So956RBso if957INif you958PPyou just959RBjust take960VVPtake a961DTa foreign962JJforeign state963NNstate as964INas the965DTthe ...966:... as967INas the968DTthe comparator969NNcomparator here970RBhere ,971,, a972DTa foreign973JJforeign state974NNstate itself975PPitself does976VVZdo all977DTall kinds978NNSkind of979INof things980NNSthing .981SENT. Like982INlike you983PPyou said984VVDsay ,985,, Justice986NPJustice Breyer987NPBreyer ,988,, they989PPthey are990VBPbe not991RBnot commercial992JJcommercial activity993NNactivity .994SENT. But995CCbut a996DTa foreign997JJforeign state998NNstate might999MDmight have1000VHhave a1001DTa bank1002NNbank ,1003,, for1004INfor example1005NNexample ,1006,, that1007WDTthat does1008VVZdo almost1009RBalmost all1010DTall commercial1011JJcommercial activity1012NNactivity .1013SENT. And1014CCand so1015RBso the1016DTthe same1017JJsame thing1018NNthing is1019VBZbe true1020JJtrue with1021INwith international1022JJinternational organizations1023NNSorganization ,1024,, and1025CCand let1026VVlet me1027PPme answer1028VVanswer that1029IN/thatthat in1030INin a1031DTa few1032JJfew different1033JJdifferent steps1034NNSstep .1035SENT. So1036RBso ,1037,, first1038JJfirst of1039INof all1040DTall ,1041,, look1042VVlook at1043INat the1044DTthe sweep1045NNsweep of1046INof international1047JJinternational organizations1048NNSorganization .1049SENT. Many1050JJmany do1051VVPdo things1052NNSthing like1053INlike regulation1054NNregulation ,1055,, for1056INfor example1057NNexample ,1058,, managing1059VVGmanage fisheries1060NNSfishery .1061SENT. They1062PPthey do1063VVPdo things1064NNSthing like1065INlike dispute1066NNdispute resolution1067NNresolution ,1068,, law1069NNlaw enforcement1070NNenforcement ,1071,, Interpol1072NPInterpol .1073SENT. They1074PPthey do1075VVPdo scientific1076JJscientific research1077NNresearch and1078CCand agricultural1079JJagricultural research1080NNresearch .1081SENT. All1082DTall of1083INof those1084DTthose things1085NNSthing are1086VBPbe non-commercial1087JJnon-commercial activities1088NNSactivity on1089INon the1090DTthe other1091JJother side1092NNside .1093SENT. Then1094RBthen you1095PPyou have1096VHPhave the1097DTthe category1098NNcategory ,1099,, the1100DTthe special1101JJspecial category1102NNcategory ,1103,, of1104INof lending1105NNlending banks1106NNSbank ,1107,, but1108CCbut even1109RBeven within1110INwithin lending1111NNlending banks1112NNSbank ,1113,, not1114RBnot all1115PDTall the1116DTthe things1117NNSthing that1118IN/thatthat lending1119NNlending banks1120NNSbank do1121VVPdo are1122VBPbe commercial1123JJcommercial activity1124NNactivity .1125SENT. The1126DTthe IFC1127NPIFC itself1128PPitself on1129INon its1130PP$its website1131NNwebsite talks1132NNStalk about1133RBabout how1134WRBhow it1135PPit gives1136VVZgive advice1137NNadvice to1138TOto foreign1139JJforeign governments1140NNSgovernment about1141INabout legislation1142NNlegislation that1143WDTthat ought1144MDought to1145TOto be1146VBbe passed1147VVNpass regulating1148VVGregulate financial1149JJfinancial transactions1150NNStransaction with1151INwith the1152DTthe private1153JJprivate sector1154NNsector .1155SENT. That1156DTthat is1157VBZbe not1158RBnot probably1159RBprobably commercial1160JJcommercial activity1161NNactivity .1162SENT. And1163CCand then1164RBthen ,1165,, even1166RBeven within1167INwithin lending1168NNlending activities1169NNSactivity ,1170,, Justice1171NPJustice Breyer1172NPBreyer ,1173,, just1174RBjust take1175VVtake the1176DTthe World1177NPWorld Bank1178NPBank ,1179,, it1180PPit has1181VHZhave five1182CDfive separate1183JJseparate institutions1184NNSinstitution .1185SENT. Now1186RBnow the1187DTthe IFC1188NPIFC is1189VBZbe on1190INon one1191CDone side1192NNside .1193SENT. What1194WPWhat the1195DTthe IFC1196NPIFC does1197VVZdo is1198VBZbe ...1199:... is1200VBZbe loan1201NNloan money1202NNmoney at1203INat market1204NNmarket rates1205NNSrate for1206INfor profit1207NNprofit for1208INfor private1209JJprivate sector1210NNsector projects1211NNSproject .1212SENT. There1213EXthere are1214VBPbe other1215JJother components1216NNScomponent of1217INof the1218DTthe World1219NPWorld Bank1220NPBank and1221CCand there1222EXthere are1223VBPbe other1224JJother lending1225NNlending institutions1226NNSinstitution that1227WDTthat are1228VBPbe international1229JJinternational organizations1230NNSorganization that1231WDTthat give1232VVPgive grants1233NNSgrant for1234INfor public1235JJpublic works1236NNSwork programs1237NNSprogram or1238CCor that1239WDTthat do1240VVPdo the1241DTthe kind1242NNkind of1243INof spending1244VVGspend that1245IN/thatthat governments1246NNSgovernment do1247VVPdo .1248SENT. And1249CCand the1250DTthe government1251NNgovernment 's1252VBZbe argued1253VVNargue in1254INin past1255JJpast cases1256NNScase ,1257,, and1258CCand we1259PPwe think1260VVPthink they1261PPthey 're1262VBPbe probably1263RBprobably right1264RBright ,1265,, that1266IN/thatthat that1267DTthat is1268VBZbe not1269RBnot commercial1270JJcommercial activity1271NNactivity either1272RBeither .1273SENT. So1274RBso ,1275,, when1276WRBwhen the1277DTthe other1278JJother side1279NNside says1280VVZsay ,1281,, well1282RBwell ,1283,, everything1284NNeverything is1285VBZbe commercial1286JJcommercial activity1287NNactivity ,1288,, it1289PPit 's1290VBZbe no1291RBno different1292JJdifferent than1293INthan the1294DTthe foreign1295JJforeign state1296NNstate coming1297VVGcome to1298TOto this1299DTthis and1300CCand saying1301VVGsay ,1302,, well1303RBwell ,1304,, if1305INif the1306DTthe Bank1307NPBank of1308INof Switzerland1309NPSwitzerland does1310VVZdo commercial1311JJcommercial activity1312NNactivity ,1313,, then1314RBthen we're1315NNwe're ...1316:... we1317PPwe 're1318VBPbe stuck1319VVNstick .1320SENT. Well1321UHWell ,1322,, no1323UHno ,1324,, no1325UHno ,1326,, no1327UHno ,1328,, it1329PPit 's1330VBZbe just1331RBjust how1332WRBhow closely1333RBclosely you1334PPyou look1335VVPlook at1336INat the1337DTthe problem1338NNproblem .1339SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]1340LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] What1341WPWhat about1342RBabout ...1343:... the1344DTthe third1345JJthird was1346VBDbe if1347INif we1348PPwe ...1349:... if1350INif we1351PPwe decide1352VVPdecide with1353INwith you1354PPyou ...1355:... if1356INif we1357PPwe decide1358VVPdecide against1359INagainst you1360PPyou ,1361,, see1362VVsee ,1363,, that1364WDTthat would1365MDwould mean1366VVmean there1367EXthere is1368VBZbe sovereign1369JJsovereign immunity1370NNimmunity .1371SENT. But1372CCbut there1373EXthere should1374MDshould n't1375RBn't be1376VBbe in1377INin a1378DTa particular1379JJparticular case1380NNcase ,1381,, the1382DTthe State1383NPState Department1384NPDepartment can1385MDcan waive1386VVwaive it1387PPit and1388CCand they1389PPthey have1390VHPhave to1391TOto be1392VBbe ...1393:... response1394NNresponse .1395SENT. But1396CCbut if1397INif we1398PPwe decide1399VVPdecide for1400INfor you1401PPyou ,1402,, and1403CCand then1404RBthen there1405EXthere 's1406VBZbe a1407DTa case1408NNcase where1409WRBwhere there1410EXthere really1411RBreally should1412MDshould n't1413RBn't be1414VBbe sovereign1415JJsovereign immunity1416NNimmunity or1417CCor ,1418,, rather1419RBrather ...1420:... rather1421RBrather ,1422,, there1423EXthere really1424RBreally should1425MDshould be1426VBbe ,1427,, I1428PPI guess1429VVPguess ...1430:... see1431VVsee ,1432,, that1433WDTthat 's1434VBZbe what1435WPwhat I1436PPI 'm1437VBPbe getting1438VVGget mixed1439VVNmix up1440RPup .1441SENT. You1442PPyou see1443VVPsee ,1444,, if1445INif we1446PPwe decide1447VVPdecide against1448INagainst you1449PPyou and1450CCand they1451PPthey really1452RBreally should1453MDshould have1454VHhave sovereign1455JJsovereign immunity1456NNimmunity in1457INin this1458DTthis case1459NNcase ,1460,, nobody1461NNnobody can1462MDcan do1463VVdo anything1464NNanything .1465SENT. So1466RBso ,1467,, knowing1468VVGknow nothing1469NNnothing about1470INabout the1471DTthe future1472NNfuture ,1473,, it1474PPit seems1475VVZseem a1476DTa little1477RBlittle safer1478JJRsafe ,1479,, the1480DTthe first1481JJfirst ,1482,, than1483INthan the1484DTthe second1485NNsecond .1486SENT. [MR. FISHER J.]1487LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Well1488UHwell ,1489,, I1490PPI 'm1491VBPbe going1492VVGgo to1493TOto turn1494VVturn back1495RBback in1496INin a1497DTa moment1498NNmoment to1499TOto the1500DTthe law1501NNlaw and1502CCand why1503WRBwhy that1504DTthat just1505RBjust can1506MDcan 't1507RB't fit1508NNfit within1509INwithin the1510DTthe law1511NNlaw ,1512,, but1513CCbut as1514RBas to1515TOto just1516RBjust the1517DTthe policy1518NNpolicy question1519VVPquestion you1520PPyou 're1521VBPbe asking1522VVGask me1523PPme ...1524:... [JUSTICE BREYER]1525LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] If1526INif you1527PPyou look1528VVPlook ...1529:... [MR. FISHER J.]1530LOC[MR. FISHER J.] ...1531:... even1532RBeven there1533RBthere ...1534:... [JUSTICE BREYER]1535LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] ...1536:... at1537INat the1538DTthe reason1539NNreason I1540PPI ask1541VVPask policy1542NNpolicy questions1543NNSquestion is1544VBZbe because1545INbecause the1546DTthe hornbook1547NNhornbook said1548VVDsay ,1549,, yes1550UHyes ,1551,, apply1552VVapply it1553PPit as1554INas of1555INof now1556RBnow as1557RBas long1558JJlong as1559INas it1560PPit 's1561VBZbe consistent1562JJconsistent with1563INwith the1564DTthe purpose1565NNpurpose of1566INof the1567DTthe statute1568NNstatute .1569SENT. And1570CCand the1571DTthe purpose1572NNpurpose of1573INof the1574DTthe statute1575NNstatute ,1576,, going1577VVGgo back1578RBback to1579TOto and1580CCand the1581DTthe U1582NPU .1583SENT. N1584NPN .1585SENT. and1586CCand everything1587NNeverything ,1588,, was1589VBDbe to1590TOto get1591VVget these1592DTthese organizations1593NNSorganization to1594TOto locate1595VVlocate here1596RBhere .1597SENT. So1598RBso it1599PPit 's1600VBZbe not1601RBnot just1602RBjust policy1603NNpolicy for1604INfor policy1605NNpolicy .1606SENT. It1607PPit 's1608VBZbe policy1609NNpolicy for1610INfor purpose1611NNpurpose .1612SENT. And1613CCand purpose1614NNpurpose is1615VBZbe tied1616VVNtie into1617INinto how1618WRBhow you1619PPyou interpret1620VVPinterpret the1621DTthe language1622NNlanguage .1623SENT. [MR. FISHER J.]1624LOC[MR. FISHER J.] So1625RBso let1626VVDlet me1627PPme give1628VVPgive you1629PPyou the1630DTthe practical1631JJpractical answer1632NNanswer and1633CCand then1634RBthen the1635DTthe purpose1636NNpurpose answer1637NNanswer .1638SENT. On1639INon the1640DTthe practical1641JJpractical answer1642NNanswer ,1643,, organizations1644NNSorganization ,1645,, especially1646RBespecially if1647INif they1648PPthey want1649VVPwant a1650DTa headquarter1651JJheadquarter here1652RBhere or1653CCor are1654VBPbe headquartered1655VVNheadquarter here1656RBhere ,1657,, are1658VBPbe fully1659RBfully able1660JJable to1661TOto ...1662:... to1663TOto lobby1664VVlobby Congress1665NPCongress or1666CCor the1667DTthe executive1668JJexecutive branch1669NNbranch for1670INfor special1671JJspecial immunity1672NNimmunity .1673SENT. And1674CCand there1675EXthere are1676VBPbe many1677JJmany examples1678NNSexample across1679INacross international1680JJinternational organizations1681NNSorganization .1682SENT. Take1683VVtake the1684DTthe Organization1685NPOrganization of1686INof American1687NPAmerican States1688NPSStates ,1689,, OAS1690NPOAS .1691SENT. And1692CCand the1693DTthe Solicitor1694NPSolicitor General1695NPGeneral discusses1696VVZdiscuss this1697DTthis in1698RPin ...1699:... the1700DTthe organization1701NNorganization in1702INin its1703PP$its brief1704NNbrief .1705SENT. In1706INin 19941707CD@card@ ,1708,, it1709PPit negotiated1710VVDnegotiate a1711DTa special1712JJspecial immunity1713NNimmunity provision1714NNprovision for1715INfor itself1716PPitself to1717TOto get1718VVget more1719JJRmore than1720INthan the1721DTthe ordinary1722JJordinary restrictive1723JJrestrictive form1724NNform of1725INof immunity1726NNimmunity that1727WDTthat was1728VBDbe available1729JJavailable under1730INunder the1731DTthe IOIA1732NPIOIA .1733SENT. So1734RBso there1735EXthere are1736VBPbe ...1737:... there1738EXthere are1739VBPbe pathways1740NNSpathway available1741JJavailable ,1742,, and1743CCand they1744PPthey have1745VHPhave been1746VBNbe used1747VVNuse even1748RBeven more1749RBRmore so1750RBso .1751SENT. Remember1752VVremember ,1753,, the1754DTthe United1755NPUnited States1756NPSStates ,1757,, as1758INas you1759PPyou say1760VVPsay ,1761,, has1762VHZhave a1763DTa ...1764:... has1765VHZhave a1766DTa sometimes1767RBsometimes principal1768JJprincipal interest1769NNinterest in1770INin these1771DTthese organizations1772NNSorganization .1773SENT. So1774RBso it1775PPit is1776VBZbe quite1777RBquite responsive1778JJresponsive to1779TOto them1780PPthem when1781WRBwhen they1782PPthey come1783VVPcome and1784CCand say1785VVPsay :1786:: We1787PPwe need1788VVPneed more1789JJRmore than1790INthan the1791DTthe IOIA1792NPIOIA gives1793VVZgive us1794PPus .1795SENT. But1796CCbut ,1797,, Justice1798NPJustice Breyer1799NPBreyer ,1800,, let1801VVDlet me1802PPme turn1803VVPturn back1804RBback to1805TOto the1806DTthe ...1807:... the1808DTthe original1809JJoriginal purpose1810NNpurpose ,1811,, which1812WDTwhich was1813VBDbe the1814DTthe legislative1815JJlegislative history1816NNhistory is1817VBZbe quite1818RBquite clear1819JJclear on1820INon what1821WPwhat the1822DTthe purpose1823NNpurpose was1824VBDbe .1825SENT. As1826INas you1827PPyou say1828VVPsay ,1829,, this1830DTthis was1831VBDbe partly1832RBpartly to1833TOto create1834VVcreate a1835DTa form1836NNform of1837INof immunity1838NNimmunity to1839TOto give1840VVgive some1841DTsome comfort1842NNcomfort to1843TOto these1844DTthese organizations1845NNSorganization .1846SENT. But1847CCbut the1848DTthe question1849NNquestion is1850VBZbe ,1851,, what1852WPwhat form1853VVPform of1854INof immunity1855NNimmunity did1856VVDdo they1857PPthey ask1858VVask for1859INfor and1860CCand what1861WPwhat did1862VVDdo they1863PPthey get1864VVPget ?1865SENT? What1866WPWhat they1867PPthey did1868VVDdo is1869VBZbe they1870PPthey came1871VVDcome to1872TOto Congress1873NPCongress and1874CCand said1875VVDsay treat1876VVtreat us1877PPus like1878INlike foreign1879JJforeign governments1880NNSgovernment .1881SENT. Give1882VVgive us1883PPus immunity1884NNimmunity ,1885,, as1886INas Congress1887NPCongress put1888VVDput it1889PPit in1890INin the1891DTthe Senate1892NPSenate report1893NNreport ,1894,, of1895INof a1896DTa governmental1897JJgovernmental nature1898NNnature .1899SENT. And1900CCand so1901INso what1902WPwhat did1903VVDdo Congress1904NPCongress do1905VVPdo ?1906SENT? It1907PPit gave1908VVDgive them1909PPthem exactly1910RBexactly what1911WPwhat they1912PPthey asked1913VVDask for1914INfor .1915SENT. It1916PPit said1917VVDsay we1918PPwe 're1919VBPbe going1920VVGgo to1921TOto treat1922VVtreat you1923PPyou as1924INas a1925DTa default1926NNdefault measure1927NNmeasure like1928INlike a1929DTa foreign1930JJforeign government1931NNgovernment .1932SENT. And1933CCand ,1934,, remember1935VVPremember ,1936,, the1937DTthe words1938NNSword of1939INof the1940DTthe statute1941NNstatute are1942VBPbe "1943``" same1944JJsame immunity1945NNimmunity .1946SENT. "1947''" "1948``" Same1949JJsame immunity1950NNimmunity "1951''" as1952INas is1953VBZbe enjoyed1954VVNenjoy by1955INby federal1956JJfederal governments1957NNSgovernment .1958SENT. So1959RBso we1960PPwe 're1961VBPbe going1962VVGgo to1963TOto give1964VVgive you1965PPyou the1966DTthe same1967JJsame immunity1968NNimmunity ,1969,, subject1970JJsubject to1971TOto the1972DTthe President1973NPPresident 's1974POS's ability1975NNability to1976TOto in1977INin just1978RBjust ...1979:... adjust1980VVadjust it1981PPit and1982CCand subject1983JJsubject to1984TOto your1985PP$your own1986JJown ability1987NNability in1988INin your1989PP$your own1990JJown treaty1991NNtreaty to1992TOto negotiate1993VVnegotiate for1994INfor more1995JJRmore ,1996,, and1997CCand subject1998JJsubject ,1999,, thirdly2000RBthirdly ,2001,, to2002TOto Congress2003NPCongress 's2004POS's ability2005NNability to2006TOto give2007VVgive you2008PPyou some2009DTsome immunity2010NNimmunity that2011IN/thatthat you2012PPyou do2013VVPdo n't2014RBn't have2015VHhave even2016RBeven by2017INby way2018NNway of2019INof your2020PP$your own2021JJown treaty2022NNtreaty .2023SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2024LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Can2025MDcan we2026PPwe go2027VVgo to2028TOto that2029DTthat issue2030NNissue raised2031VVNraise in2032INin part2033NNpart ?2034SENT? The2035DTthe special2036JJspecial immunity2037NNimmunity ,2038,, I2039PPI know2040VVPknow ,2041,, was2042VBDbe even2043RBeven negotiated2044VVNnegotiate by2045INby the2046DTthe U2047NPU .2048SENT. N2049NNN .2050SENT. ,2051,, I2052PPI think2053VVPthink ,2054,, in2055INin the2056DTthe 1990s2057NNS1990s ,2058,, and2059CCand OAS2060NPOAS and2061CCand others2062NNSother ,2063,, but2064CCbut assume2065VVPassume that2066IN/thatthat we2067PPwe 're2068VBPbe in2069INin your2070PP$your regiment2071NNregiment ,2072,, and2073CCand Justice2074NPJustice Breyer2075NPBreyer made2076VVDmake the2077DTthe assumption2078NNassumption that2079IN/thatthat if2080INif a2081DTa lawsuit2082NNlawsuit came2083VVDcome to2084TOto us2085PPus now2086RBnow under2087INunder your2088PP$your theory2089NNtheory ,2090,, and2091CCand it2092PPit was2093VBDbe limited2094VVNlimit immunity2095NNimmunity ,2096,, that2097IN/thatthat the2098DTthe President2099NPPresident or2100CCor Congress2101NPCongress could2102MDcould give2103VVgive immunity2104NNimmunity to2105TOto the2106DTthe other2107JJother side2108NNside .2109SENT. I2110PPI do2111VVPdo n't2112RBn't think2113VVthink so2114RBso .2115SENT. [JUSTICE BREYER]2116LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] No2117NPNo ,2118,, it2119PPit 's2120VBZbe the2121DTthe opposite2122NNopposite .2123SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2124LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] The2125DTthe opposite2126NNopposite .2127SENT. The2128DTthe President2129NPPresident can2130MDcan 't2131RB't decrease2132VVdecrease it2133PPit ,2134,, correct2135VVcorrect ?2136SENT? [JUSTICE BREYER]2137LOC[JUSTICE BREYER] Yes2138NPYes .2139SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2140LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] So2141INso that2142DTthat problem2143NNproblem still2144RBstill remains2145VVZremain with2146INwith your2147PP$your ...2148:... [MR. FISHER J.]2149LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Well2150UHWell ...2151:... [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2152LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] Yeah2153NPYeah .2154SENT. [MR. FISHER J.]2155LOC[MR. FISHER J.] ...2156:... I2157PPI think2158VVPthink it2159PPit ...2160:... it2161PPit may2162MDmay or2163CCor may2164MDmay not2165RBnot remain2166VVremain ,2167,, Justice2168NPJustice Sotomayor2169NPSotomayor .2170SENT. [JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR]2171LOC[JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR] That2172DTthat 's2173VBZbe my2174PP$my question2175NNquestion .2176SENT. [MR. FISHER J.]2177LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Certainly2178RBcertainly ,2179,, we2180PPwe could2181MDcould ...2182:... we2183PPwe would2184MDwould say2185VVsay we2186PPwe can2187MDcan go2188VVgo forward2189RBforward on2190INon this2191DTthis suit2192NNsuit because2193INbecause ...2194:... because2195INbecause there2196EXthere is2197VBZbe no2198DTno such2199JJsuch law2200NNlaw .2201SENT. If2202INif that2203DTthat law2204NNlaw were2205VBDbe passed2206VVNpass ,2207,, you2208PPyou 'd2209MDwould have2210VHhave two2211CDtwo questions2212NNSquestion .2213SENT. One2214PPone is2215VBZbe ,2216,, did2217VVDdo Congress2218NPCongress make2219VVmake it2220PPit retroactive2221JJretroactive ?2222SENT? And2223CCand you2224PPyou look2225VVPlook to2226TOto Altmann2227NPAltmann to2228TOto ...2229:... to2230TOto think2231VVthink about2232RBabout how2233WRBhow to2234TOto judge2235VVjudge the2236DTthe retroactivity2237NNretroactivity of2238INof immunity2239NNimmunity provisions2240NNSprovision .2241SENT. And2242CCand then2243RBthen ,2244,, if2245INif it2246PPit were2247VBDbe retroactive2248JJretroactive ,2249,, whether2250INwhether that2251WDTthat were2252VBDbe permissible2253JJpermissible .2254SENT. But2255CCbut ,2256,, you2257PPyou know2258VVPknow ,2259,, we2260PPwe 're2261VBPbe a2262DTa long2263JJlong way2264NNway from2265INfrom ...2266:... from2267INfrom that2268DTthat sort2269NNsort of2270INof a2271DTa situation2272NNsituation .2273SENT. I2274PPI think2275VVPthink the2276DTthe important2277JJimportant thing2278NNthing going2279VVGgo forward2280RBforward ...2281:... and2282CCand this2283DTthis is2284VBZbe ,2285,, I2286PPI think2287VVPthink ,2288,, what2289WPwhat the2290DTthe concern2291NNconcern is2292VBZbe on2293INon the2294DTthe other2295JJother side2296NNside ,2297,, is2298VBZbe not2299RBnot so2300RBso much2301JJmuch about2302INabout this2303DTthis case2304NNcase but2305CCbut about2306RBabout incentives2307NNSincentive and2308CCand policies2309NNSpolicy going2310VVGgo forward2311RBforward ...2312:... they2313PPthey have2314VHPhave every2315DTevery opportunity2316NNopportunity to2317TOto negotiate2318VVnegotiate in2319INin one2320CDone form2321NNform or2322CCor another2323DTanother or2324CCor to2325TOto procure2326VVprocure a2327DTa heightened2328JJheightened form2329NNform of2330INof immunity2331NNimmunity .2332SENT. And2333CCand ,2334,, Justice2335NPJustice Sotomayor2336NPSotomayor ,2337,, let2338VVDlet me2339PPme say2340VVPsay one2341CDone more2342JJRmore thing2343NNthing to2344TOto you2345PPyou and2346CCand Justice2347NPJustice Breyer2348NPBreyer about2349RBabout ,2350,, you2351PPyou know2352VVPknow ,2353,, the2354DTthe idea2355NNidea of2356INof the2357DTthe executive2358JJexecutive branch2359NNbranch getting2360VVGget involved2361VVNinvolve .2362SENT. This2363DTthis is2364VBZbe one2365CDone of2366INof the2367DTthe problems2368NNSproblem ,2369,, I2370PPI submit2371VVPsubmit ,2372,, with2373INwith the2374DTthe other2375JJother side2376NNside 's2377POS's argument2378NNargument .2379SENT. Remember2380VVremember ,2381,, part2382NNpart of2383INof the2384DTthe goal2385NNgoal of2386INof the2387DTthe FSIA2388NNFSIA in2389INin the2390DTthe first2391JJfirst section2392NNsection of2393INof the2394DTthe Act2395NPAct in2396INin Section2397NPSection 16022398CD@card@ is2399VBZbe to2400TOto get2401VVget ...2402:... is2403VBZbe to2404TOto get2405VVget the2406DTthe executive2407JJexecutive branch2408NNbranch out2409RPout of2410INof the2411DTthe immunity2412NNimmunity business2413NNbusiness .2414SENT. The2415DTthe ...2416:... the2417DTthe ...2418:... Congress2419NPCongress made2420VVDmake the2421DTthe determination2422NNdetermination that2423IN/thatthat it2424PPit was2425VBDbe a2426DTa bad2427JJbad idea2428NNidea to2429TOto have2430VHhave every2431DTevery case2432NNcase turning2433VVGturn on2434INon individualized2435VVNindividualize suggestions2436NNSsuggestion of2437INof immunity2438NNimmunity and2439CCand executive2440JJexecutive branch2441NNbranch political2442JJpolitical policy2443NNpolicy .2444SENT. And2445CCand so2446RBso the2447DTthe other2448JJother side2449NNside ,2450,, by2451INby importing2452VVGimport the2453DTthe common2454JJcommon law2455NNlaw of2456INof 19452457CD@card@ ,2458,, would2459MDwould reintroduce2460VVreintroduce that2461DTthat problem2462NNproblem into2463INinto international2464JJinternational organization2465NNorganization immunity2466NNimmunity in2467INin a2468DTa way2469NNway that2470IN/thatthat we2471PPwe do2472VVPdo n't2473RBn't think2474VVthink would2475MDwould be2476VBbe very2477RBvery good2478JJgood politically2479RBpolitically or2480CCor very2481RBvery workable2482JJworkable in2483INin the2484DTthe courts2485NNScourt .2486SENT. And2487CCand I2488PPI 'd2489MDwould hasten2490VVhasten to2491TOto add2492VVadd that2493IN/thatthat even2494RBeven under2495INunder the2496DTthe rule2497NNrule of2498INof 19452499CD@card@ ,2500,, if2501INif the2502DTthe question2503NNquestion were2504VBDbe what2505WPwhat is2506VBZbe the2507DTthe executive2508JJexecutive branch2509NNbranch think2510VVPthink about2511INabout any2512DTany given2513VVNgive lawsuit2514NNlawsuit or2515CCor any2516DTany given2517VVNgive immunity2518NNimmunity for2519INfor any2520DTany given2521VVNgive type2522NNtype of2523INof suit2524NNsuit ,2525,, that2526WDTthat would2527MDwould just2528RBjust lead2529VVlead you2530PPyou right2531RBright back2532RBback to2533TOto the2534DTthe FSIA2535NNFSIA ,2536,, and2537CCand it2538PPit would2539MDwould lead2540VVlead you2541PPyou back2542RBback to2543TOto the2544DTthe same2545JJsame conclusion2546NNconclusion that2547IN/thatthat we2548PPwe submit2549VVPsubmit to2550TOto you2551PPyou here2552RBhere .2553SENT. So2554INso either2555DTeither pathway2556NNpathway ,2557,, whether2558INwhether ,2559,, Justice2560NPJustice Breyer2561NPBreyer ,2562,, you2563PPyou start2564VVPstart with2565INwith the2566DTthe way2567NNway you2568PPyou 've2569VHPhave always2570RBalways looked2571VVNlook at2572INat cases2573NNScase ,2574,, with2575INwith the2576DTthe word2577NNword "2578``" is2579VBZbe "2580``" and2581CCand the2582DTthe word2583NNword "2584``" same2585JJsame "2586''" and2587CCand the2588DTthe reference2589NNreference canon2590NNcanon that2591IN/thatthat I2592PPI 've2593VHPhave described2594VVNdescribe and2595CCand say2596VVPsay all2597DTall of2598INof those2599DTthose things2600NNSthing lead2601VVPlead you2602PPyou to2603TOto a2604DTa time2605NNtime of2606INof suit2607NNsuit rule2608NNrule ,2609,, or2610CCor if2611INif you2612PPyou start2613VVPstart with2614INwith the2615DTthe law2616NNlaw of2617INof 19452618CD@card@ and2619CCand say2620VVsay ,2621,, what2622WPwhat was2623VBDbe the2624DTthe law2625NNlaw in2626INin 222627CD@card@ 19452628CD@card@ ?2629SENT? Well2630UHwell ,2631,, Hoffman2632NPHoffman and2633CCand ...2634:... in2635INin Ex2636JJex Parte2637NNparte Peru2638NNPeru were2639VBDbe clear2640JJclear that2641IN/thatthat the2642DTthe law2643NNlaw of2644INof 19452645CD@card@ was2646VBDbe the2647DTthe executive2648JJexecutive branch2649NNbranch decides2650VVZdecide ,2651,, and2652CCand it2653PPit 's2654VBZbe not2655RBnot for2656INfor the2657DTthe Court2658NPCourt ...2659:... this2660DTthis is2661VBZbe ...2662:... I2663PPI 'm2664VBPbe going2665VVGgo to2666TOto give2667VVgive you2668PPyou the2669DTthe Court2670NPCourt 's2671POS's own2672JJown language2673NNlanguage ...2674:... it2675PPit 's2676VBZbe not2677RBnot for2678INfor the2679DTthe Court2680NPCourt to2681TOto give2682VVgive immunity2683NNimmunity where2684WRBwhere the2685DTthe executive2686JJexecutive branch2687NNbranch has2688VHZhave not2689RBnot seen2690VVNsee fit2691NNfit to2692TOto give2693VVgive it2694PPit .2695SENT. And2696CCand if2697INif that2698WDTthat were2699VBDbe the2700DTthe test2701NNtest ,2702,, you2703PPyou 'd2704MDwould come2705VVcome right2706RBright back2707RBback to2708TOto where2709WRBwhere you2710PPyou ...2711:... where2712WRBwhere I2713PPI started2714VVDstart here2715RBhere ,2716,, which2717WDTwhich is2718VBZbe that2719IN/thatthat the2720DTthe FSIA2721NNFSIA would2722MDwould control2723VVcontrol or2724CCor ,2725,, at2726INat the2727DTthe bare2728JJbare minimum2729NNminimum ,2730,, the2731DTthe executive2732JJexecutive branch2733NNbranch position2734NNposition in2735INin this2736DTthis lawsuit2737NNlawsuit on2738INon the2739DTthe type2740NNtype of2741INof immunity2742NNimmunity that2743WDTthat ought2744MDought to2745TOto apply2746VVapply in2747INin this2748DTthis situation2749NNsituation would2750MDwould control2751VVcontrol .2752SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2753LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] Mr2754NPMr .2755SENT. Fisher2756NPFisher ...2757:... [MR. FISHER J.]2758LOC[MR. FISHER J.] So2759RBso ...2760:... [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2761LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...2762:... if2763INif I2764PPI can2765MDcan pick2766VVpick up2767RPup on2768INon Justice2769NPJustice Breyer2770NPBreyer 's2771POS's question2772NNquestion .2773SENT. The2774DTthe reference2775NNreference canon2776NNcanon ,2777,, I2778PPI take2779VVPtake all2780RBall ...2781:... all2782DTall of2783INof your2784PP$your points2785NNSpoint ,2786,, but2787CCbut sometimes2788RBsometimes ,2789,, let2790VVlet 's2791VBZbe say2792VVsay we2793PPwe have2794VHPhave a2795DTa statute2796NNstatute that2797WDTthat ...2798:... that2799WDTthat refers2800VVZrefer to2801TOto another2802DTanother statute2803NNstatute .2804SENT. Usually2805RBusually ,2806,, we2807PPwe would2808MDwould look2809VVlook at2810INat the2811DTthe second2812JJsecond statute2813NNstatute that2814WDTthat 's2815VBZbe being2816VBGbe incorporated2817VVNincorporate as2818RBas of2819INof the2820DTthe time2821NNtime of2822INof ...2823:... of2824INof ...2825:... of2826INof the2827DTthe adoption2828NNadoption of2829INof ...2830:... of2831INof the2832DTthe first2833JJfirst statute2834NNstatute .2835SENT. Right2836RBright ?2837SENT? So2838RBso if2839INif ...2840:... if2841INif ...2842:... if2843INif this2844DTthis statute2845NNstatute were2846VBDbe to2847TOto say2848VVsay go2849VVgo look2850NNlook at2851INat Section2852NPSection 52853CD5 ...2854:... [MR. FISHER J.]2855LOC[MR. FISHER J.] Right2856RBright .2857SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2858LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] ...2859:... we2860PPwe would2861MDwould n't2862RBn't look2863VVlook at2864INat it2865PPit the2866DTthe way2867NNway it2868PPit 's2869VHZhave been2870VBNbe subsequently2871RBsubsequently amended2872VVNamend .2873SENT. We2874PPwe 'd2875MDwould look2876VVlook at2877INat it2878PPit as2879INas it2880PPit was2881VBDbe originally2882RBoriginally enacted2883VVNenact in2884INin 32885CD3 19452886CD@card@ .2887SENT. Why2888WRBwhy is2889VBZbe n't2890RBn't that2891DTthat ...2892:... that2893IN/thatthat idea2894NNidea pertinent2895JJpertinent here2896RBhere ,2897,, you2898PPyou know2899VVPknow ,2900,, when2901WRBwhen we2902PPwe refer2903VVPrefer to2904TOto a2905DTa specific2906JJspecific law2907NNlaw ,2908,, we2909PPwe do2910VVPdo n't2911RBn't take2912VVtake it2913PPit to2914TOto evolve2915VVevolve over2916INover time2917NNtime ?2918SENT? [MR. FISHER J.]2919LOC[MR. FISHER J.] So2920RBso for2921INfor two2922CDtwo reasons2923NNSreason ,2924,, Justice2925NPJustice Gorsuch2926NPGorsuch ,2927,, and2928CCand one2929CDone of2930INof them2931PPthem ,2932,, you2933PPyou 'll2934MDwill forgive2935VVforgive me2936PPme ,2937,, is2938VBZbe going2939VVGgo to2940TOto be2941VBbe something2942NNsomething you2943PPyou said2944VVDsay in2945INin the2946DTthe Alan2947NPAlan Contoe2948NPContoe opinion2949NNopinion .2950SENT. [JUSTICE GORSUCH]2951LOC[JUSTICE GORSUCH] I2952PPI was2953VBDbe afraid2954JJafraid of2955INof that2956DTthat .2957SENT. [2958SYM[ LAUGHTER2959NNlaughter ]2960SYM] [MR. FISHER J.]2961LOC[MR. FISHER J.] But2962CCbut for2963INfor two2964CDtwo reasons2965NNSreason .2966SENT. One2967PPone is2968VBZbe Congress2969NPCongress has2970VHZhave a2971DTa choice2972NNchoice to2973TOto make2974VVmake when2975WRBwhen it2976PPit writes2977VVZwrite legislation2978NNlegislation .2979SENT. It2980PPit can2981MDcan lock2982VVlock in2983INin a2984DTa given2985VVNgive rule2986NNrule by2987INby setting2988VVGset a2989DTa specific2990JJspecific statutory2991JJstatutory provision2992NNprovision and2993CCand says2994VVZsay that2995DTthat 's2996VBZbe the2997DTthe rule2998NNrule we2999PPwe want3000VVPwant ,3001,, just3002RBjust like3003INlike if3004INif Congress3005NPCongress uses3006VVZuse a3007DTa particular3008JJparticular word3009NNword ,3010,, the3011DTthe time3012NNtime of3013INof the3014DTthe enactment3015NNenactment ,3016,, the3017DTthe meaning3018NNmeaning of3019INof that3020DTthat word3021NNword at3022INat the3023DTthe time3024NNtime of3025INof enactment3026NNenactment would3027MDwould be3028VBbe what3029WPwhat Congress3030NPCongress ...3031:... we3032PPwe 'd3033MDwould assume3034VVassume Congress3035NPCongress wanted3036VVDwant .3037SENT. Or3038CCor Congress3039NPCongress can3040MDcan do3041VVdo something3042NNsomething different3043JJdifferent ,3044,, which3045WDTwhich is3046VBZbe to3047TOto say3048VVsay ,3049,, look3050VVlook ,3051,, we3052PPwe 're3053VBPbe not3054RBnot sure3055RBsure exactly3056RBexactly the3057DTthe metes3058NNSmete and3059CCand bounds3060NNSbound of3061INof the3062DTthe ...3063:... of3064INof the3065DTthe law3066NNlaw .3067SENT. We3068PPwe 're3069VBPbe just3070RBjust going3071VVGgo to3072TOto tie3073VVtie it3074PPit to3075TOto this3076DTthis other3077JJother area3078NNarea of3079INof law3080NNlaw as3081INas a3082DTa general3083JJgeneral matter3084NNmatter .3085SENT. And3086CCand that3087DTthat 's3088VBZbe what3089WPwhat Congress3090NPCongress did3091VVDdo here3092RBhere .3093SENT. It3094PPit did3095VVDdo the3096DTthe latter3097NNlatter .3098SENT. So3099RBso it3100PPit took3101VVDtake an3102DTan area3103NNarea of3104INof law3105NNlaw as3106INas a3107DTa point3108NNpoint of3109INof reference3110NNreference and3111CCand said3112VVDsay :3113:: Just3114RBjust use3115VVPuse that3116IN/thatthat as3117INas the3118DTthe default3119NNdefault rule3120NNrule and3121CCand then3122RBthen adjust3123VVadjust as3124RBas necessary3125JJnecessary .3126SENT. And3127CCand those3128DTthose are3129VBPbe just3130RBjust two3131CDtwo different3132JJdifferent pathways3133NNSpathway Congress3134NPCongress can3135MDcan go3136VVgo down3137RPdown .3138SENT. And3139CCand they3140PPthey date3141VVPdate ,3142,, as3143INas I3144PPI said3145VVDsay ,3146,, all3147RBall the3148DTthe way3149NNway back3150RBback to3151TOto the3152DTthe First3153NPFirst Judiciary3154NPJudiciary Act3155NPAct there3156RBthere ,3157,, in3158INin the3159DTthe Sutherland3160NPSutherland treatise3161NNtreatise ,3162,, all3163PDTall the3164DTthe way3165NNway back3166RBback to3167TOto 19043168CD@card@ ,3169,, and3170CCand so3171RBso there3172EXthere 's3173VBZbe just3174RBjust two3175CDtwo different3176JJdifferent pathways3177NNSpathway Congress3178NPCongress can3179MDcan go3180VVgo down3181RPdown .3182SENT. And3183CCand it3184PPit makes3185VVZmake perfect3186JJperfect sense3187NNsense ,3188,, I3189PPI think3190VVPthink ,3191,, in3192INin a3193DTa situation3194NNsituation like3195INlike this3196DTthis ,3197,, especially3198RBespecially where3199WRBwhere you3200PPyou have3201VHPhave a3202DTa common3203JJcommon law3204NNlaw doctrine3205NNdoctrine being3206VBGbe referenced3207VVNreference ,3208,, at3209INat least3210JJSleast a3211DTa common3212JJcommon law3213NNlaw at3214INat the3215DTthe time3216NNtime ,3217,, and3218CCand one3219CDone that3220WDTthat was3221VBDbe ,3222,, in3223RBin ...3224:... indeed3225RBindeed ,3226,, not3227RBnot just3228RBjust any3229DTany old3230JJold common3231JJcommon law3232NNlaw doctrine3233NNdoctrine but3234CCbut one3235CDone that3236WDTthat was3237VBDbe in3238INin a3239DTa great3240JJgreat deal3241NNdeal of3242INof flux3243NNflux at3244INat the3245DTthe time3246NNtime .3247SENT. So3248RBso it3249PPit made3250VVDmake every3251DTevery reason3252NNreason ...3253:... it3254PPit made3255VVDmake every3256DTevery good3257JJgood reason3258NNreason for3259INfor Congress3260NPCongress to3261TOto have3262VHhave a3263DTa general3264JJgeneral reference3265NNreference ,3266,, not3267RBnot a3268DTa specific3269JJspecific one3270CDone .3271SENT. And3272CCand then3273RBthen the3274DTthe second3275JJsecond reason3276NNreason ,3277,, Justice3278NPJustice Gorsuch3279NPGorsuch ,3280,, is3281VBZbe the3282DTthe one3283CDone you3284PPyou mentioned3285VVDmention sitting3286VVGsit on3287INon the3288DTthe Tenth3289JJtenth Circuit3290NNcircuit ,3291,, which3292WDTwhich is3293VBZbe that3294IN/thatthat ,3295,, as3296INas time3297NNtime goes3298VVZgo by3299INby ,3300,, it3301PPit becomes3302VVZbecome all3303PDTall the3304DTthe more3305RBRmore stilted3306JJstilted or3307CCor antiquated3308JJantiquated or3309CCor even3310RBeven foolish3311JJfoolish sometimes3312RBsometimes to3313TOto try3314VVtry to3315TOto answer3316VVanswer questions3317NNSquestion in3318INin the3319DTthe modern3320JJmodern day3321NNday according3322VVGaccord to3323TOto what3324WPwhat some3325DTsome bygone3326JJbygone era3327NNera doctrine3328NNdoctrine would3329MDwould have3330VHhave required3331VVNrequire ,3332,, and3333CCand especially3334RBespecially a3335DTa bygone3336JJbygone era3337NNera doctrine3338NNdoctrine like3339INlike this3340DTthis .3341SENT. If3342INif I3343PPI understand3344VVPunderstand the3345DTthe other3346JJother side3347NNside 's3348POS's position3349NNposition correctly3350RBcorrectly ,3351,, basically3352RBbasically ,3353,, the3354DTthe question3355NNquestion they3356PPthey 're3357VBPbe having3358VHGhave ...3359:... they3360PPthey would3361MDwould want3362VVwant every3363DTevery federal3364JJfederal court3365NNcourt to3366TOto ask3367VVask in3368INin these3369DTthese cases3370NNScase is3371VBZbe ,3372,, what3373WPwhat would3374MDwould the3375DTthe Truman3376NPTruman Administration3377NPAdministration 's3378POS's State3379NPState Department3380NPDepartment have3381VHPhave wanted3382VVNwant to3383TOto do3384VVdo in3385INin this3386DTthis case3387NNcase ?3388SENT? And3389CCand when3390WRBwhen you3391PPyou have3392VHPhave things3393NNSthing like3394INlike this3395DTthis ,3396,, which3397WDTwhich did3398VVDdo n't3399RBn't even3400RBeven ...3401:... an3402DTan organization3403NNorganization that3404WDTthat did3405VVDdo n't3406RBn't even3407RBeven exist3408VVexist at3409INat the3410DTthe time3411NNtime ,3412,, sometimes3413RBsometimes doing3414VVGdo activities3415NNSactivity that3416WDTthat were3417VBDbe n't3418RBn't even3419RBeven contemplated3420VVNcontemplate at3421INat the3422DTthe time3423NNtime ,3424,, things3425NNSthing like3426INlike sovereign3427JJsovereign wealth3428NNwealth funds3429NNSfund ,3430,, which3431WDTwhich foreign3432JJforeign sovereigns3433NNSsovereign now3434RBnow engage3435VVPengage in3436INin ,3437,, for3438INfor example3439NNexample ,3440,, who3441WPwho knows3442VVZknow what3443WPwhat the3444DTthe State3445NPState Department3446NPDepartment would3447MDwould have3448VHhave thought3449VVNthink then3450RBthen .3451SENT. I3452PPI think3453VVPthink there3454EXthere 's3455VBZbe every3456DTevery reason3457NNreason then3458RBthen to3459TOto fall3460VVfall back3461RBback on3462INon the3463DTthe reference3464NNreference canon3465NNcanon .3466SENT. And3467CCand if3468INif I3469PPI can3470MDcan say3471VVsay one3472CDone more3473JJRmore thing3474NNthing before3475INbefore reserving3476VVGreserve my3477PP$my time3478NNtime ,3479,, if3480INif you3481PPyou have3482VHPhave any3483DTany doubt3484NNdoubt about3485RBabout just3486RBjust the3487DTthe plain3488JJplain text3489NNtext argument3490NNargument I3491PPI ...3492:... I3493PPI 've3494VHPhave given3495VVNgive you3496PPyou ,3497,, I3498PPI would3499MDwould urge3500VVurge you3501PPyou to3502TOto compare3503VVcompare the3504DTthe text3505NNtext in3506INin Section3507NPSection 288a3508NP288a to3509TOto the3510DTthe text3511NNtext ...3512:... Section3513NNsection 288d3514NNS288d ,3515,, which3516WDTwhich has3517VHZhave the3518DTthe exact3519JJexact dichotomy3520NNdichotomy that3521WDTthat ...3522:... that3523IN/thatthat I3524PPI 've3525VHPhave been3526VBNbe discussing3527VVGdiscuss today3528NNtoday .3529SENT. One3530CDOne subsection3531NNsubsection ,3532,, subsection3533NNsubsection (3534(( a3535DTa )3536)) ,3537,, says3538VVZsay that3539IN/thatthat the3540DTthe same3541JJsame immunity3542NNimmunity rules3543NNSrule apply3544VVPapply ,3545,, and3546CCand subsection3547NNsubsection (3548(( b3549LSb )3550)) says3551VVZsay that3552IN/thatthat foreign3553JJforeign officials3554NNSofficial ...3555:... I3556PPI 'm3557VBPbe sorry3558JJsorry ,3559,, international3560JJinternational organization3561NNorganization officials3562NNSofficial are3563VBPbe entitled3564VVNentitle to3565TOto absolute3566JJabsolute immunity3567NNimmunity .3568SENT. So3569RBso this3570DTthis is3571VBZbe yet3572RByet another3573DTanother reason3574NNreason why3575WRBwhy if3576INif the3577DTthe other3578JJother side3579NNside were3580VBDbe correct3581JJcorrect and3582CCand if3583INif Congress3584NPCongress had3585VHDhave wanted3586VVNwant to3587TOto lay3588VVlay down3589RPdown the3590DTthe rule3591NNrule they3592PPthey did3593VVDdo ,3594,, why3595WRBwhy would3596MDwould they3597PPthey not3598RBnot have3599VHPhave just3600RBjust used3601VVNuse the3602DTthe absolute3603JJabsolute immunity3604NNimmunity language3605NNlanguage in3606INin subsection3607NNsubsection (3608(( b3609LSb )3610)) of3611INof subsection3612NNsubsection (3613(( d3614LSd )3615)) and3616CCand that3617IN/thatthat ,3618,, indeed3619RBindeed ,3620,, was3621VBDbe the3622DTthe original3623JJoriginal draft3624NNdraft of3625INof this3626DTthis act3627NNact that3628WDTthat was3629VBDbe discarded3630VVNdiscard .3631SENT. So3632RBso I3633PPI could3634MDcould go3635VVgo on3636INon ,3637,, but3638CCbut I3639PPI 'd3640MDwould rather3641RBrather save3642VVsave the3643DTthe rest3644NNrest of3645INof my3646PP$my time3647NNtime for3648INfor rebuttal3649NNrebuttal .3650SENT. [CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS]3651LOC[CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS] Thank3652VVthank you3653PPyou ,3654,, counsel3655NNcounsel .3656SENT. Mr3657NPMr .3658SENT. Ellis3659NPEllis .3660SENT.