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2008-11-11 00:00:00
2025-06-23 00:00:00
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Okay, I don't think I need to tell why I'm asking this. While Python supports functional programming to a reasonable extent, there's a widespread stubborn hatred of functional programming and anything related to it in the Python community (probably starting with the BDFL), and any proposals for extending Python into something more useful for functional programming (without taking out any of the other ways to use Python, of course, that's the good thing about multi-paradigm languages) is received with ruthless hostility and perceived as an attack against Python. The Python community is generally a good one (especially compared to others), yet this generalized hatred for functional programming and anything related to it seriously turns me off. While Python is currently my overall favourite programming language (considering the quality of the standard and non-standard libraries, support, and features), I'm currently considering putting my effort and time investments somewhere less hostile to functional programming. Hostility to functional programming is a form of hostility to abstraction, theoretical correctness and cleanliness. I hope I'm wrong, but this seems like pulling the PHP way. Consistently meeting proposals such as tail call elimination with nothing short of "that's liek difficult to understand d00d ha ha no freaking way" doesn't say much about the health of this community; in fact it looks like something straight out of the average PHP documentation comment.
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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>that's the good thing about multi-paradigm languages I don't think the BDFL is interested in creating a multi-paradigm language. He's much more interested in a 'one obvious consistent Pythonic way of doing everything' language, and that one way historically hasn't been functional.
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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Well I am not really part of the Python community, but I am a redditter and this gives me a bit of exposure I suppose. From my point of view the biggest issue is the way Function Programming zealots approach the table. There is a pre-existing assumption that everything functional is good and everything imperative is bad. Obviously this is absurd, yet in so many functional-programming articles that flow through reddit there seems to be a subconscious bias toward this line of thinking. Viewing it from a pragmatic point of view functional programming hasn't really delivered for me. Recently there was a mario-brothers clone written in Haskell (I think) that was hailed as a major achievement. I don't want to be negative towards the authors of that, but it really doesn't seem like a fantastic achievement. In reality it seems to reveal how ill suited purely functional programming is for real world projects. Of course to swing the other direction and disregard everything functional as academic bluster which is not useful at all in the 'real world' is equally absurd. The fact is that there are a huge amount of things I have taken from functional programming. I program in C++ primarily, although I experiment around with D and it's functional features are the most appealing reason for me to do so.
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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Besides lack of support for tail calls, which is the only example you give, what makes you think that python doesn't support functional programming? What proposals do you refer to that have been shot down? My POV: Python spports FP just fine as long as it doesn't conflict with python itself. Remember that Python has: * list comprehensions * generators * coroutines * filter map and reduce built-in * real first-class functions with closures (albeit those can be a bit quirky) All of those things point to no fundamental language bias against FP.
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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"Hostility to functional programming is a form of hostility to abstraction, theoretical correctness and cleanliness" I don't think the community or the BDFL are hostile to these things, more generally conservate and hostile to certain coding styles. The Python way is to prefer easy digestability over things like proper lambdas, and reduce. Lambda is crippled to stop people writing ugly code. Reading the occasional blog post with ugly Ruby code makes it easier to understand why this choice was made. I would personally prefer more support for functional programming, but I sort of understand the logic of not accepting functional features without carefully judging the trade-offs with the 'pythonic' way.
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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Well, mostly there seems to be resistance to turning Python into Scheme, because, well, if you like Scheme it's already there for you to use (I'd make a joke here about how a future revision of Scheme should turn non-tail-recursive functions into a compiler error, but I'm afraid somebody would actually think that's a good idea). Oh, and for the record: I'm against tail elimination in Python simply because it seems inevitably to lead to people writing obfuscated, hard-to-read code simply for the sake of having a tail-recursive function, and Python is, well, not about that: it's about clear, readable code. But as others have pointed out, one of the biggest problems, to me as a Python programmer, is the zeal with which FP folks approach this; it's not a case of "we want the ability to do more FP stuff in Python", it's "FP should be the one and only way in which programmers are allowed to write code". You yourself are leaning that way with your straw-man "hostility to abstraction" swipe (hint: OOP is also abstraction. It's _different_ abstraction than FP, but it's abstraction nonetheless). Meanwhile I'm quite happy to take advantage of closures, comprehensions, coroutines, function composition and all the other things Python lets me do, without thinking that has to be the _only_ way I think about or write code. So maybe the problem is in yourself and not in Python :)
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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Have you checked out F#, or should I call it OCaml.NET? It does both OO, imperative, and functional. I like the multi-paradigm languages, although they are harder to learn as there is more than one way to do anything.
r/python
comment
r/Python
2008-11-11
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[deleted]
r/linux
comment
r/linux
2009-03-07
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Generalizing is not helpful no matter what 'side' you think you are on.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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People who know they're right to the exclusion of all else are the ones who are jerks, whether religious or anti-religious.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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To be fair, you're asking a very vague and difficult question. First, we have to clearly define "God", and the properties such an entity must possess in order to be called "God". It's a dreadfully fuzzy term. Next, I would need to think long and hard about how an entity with such properties would manifest itself in the world as I can comprehend it. For instance, if something claims to be omnipotent, how could one distinguish this from a being that is simply very powerful? Such a situation may arise if we were to wonder whether some sort of alien intelligence would constitute "God". Finally, there is always the matter of human reliability. If I start believing in God, it could simply be because I've had a stroke or a bad trip due to food poisoning. I'd want the belief to hold up over time, and verify there isn't anything physically wrong with me. If we're talking the Christian God, I'd imagine the best evidence would be seeing some ticked off angels after I die. Of course, at this point I'd have to begin to question what "seeing" and "I" would mean in this context... If you want, I'd be happy to discuss the matter with you both rationally and politely.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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To be fair, all people are jerks... but that's almost excessively cynical.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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If you don't want snappy answers, don't ask stupid questions.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Christians are jerks, atheists are jerks, people are jerks, etc. This is a lame argument. If you want to criticize atheists, put some thought into. For example, my main beef with atheists is that **they aren't logical.** They claim to value reason and science above all else, but make every moral decision based on their emotions. Then when you call them out on it, they claim to be utilitarians, even though you can document how that isn't the case. Furthermore, atheists accuse religious folk of being irrational, yet have no problem with people who stop believing in God because something bad happened to them.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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How nice or not you are bears no relation to how right you are. And honestly are atheists jerks? I mean a complete imposition of atheism aims on others would mean a secular government and public sphere with private worship untouched, contrast that to religions which want to regulate people's rights to marry or what they eat, what they wear or even speaks against condoms in areas with AIDs epidemics. So really who's the jerk?
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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I would disagree in totality. For one, emotions exist even though God does not, thus it is impractical to expect an atheist to act as if we didn't have any. We still get happy, sad, and fall in love, and sometimes those emotions are irrational. Who cares, we are still people, right? As long as we are aware of the irrationality of it all, we can act accordingly. Belief in God, though, requires rational justification of an irrational belief. Thats where things get fucked up. I can have an irrational emotion and get over it, believers can have an irrational belief and try to tell everyone how rational it is to believe in things you have never seen evidence to exist. Also, I have a problem with people who become atheist because of something bad happened to them. They are hating God, not coming to the realization that God doesn't exist. Two totally different mindsets.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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I'm not sure the question was ever whether or not anyone was a jerk. No one is going to win an argument saying, "You're wrong because you're a jerk." That said, we've got to consider the fact that you asked a question so broad as to feel almost inane. You did that on reddit, which often rewards snarky comments. Then, you took those snarky comments and responded to them with a sweeping generalization that was both close-minded and dismissive. Just what exactly are you trying to get at?
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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We may be jerks, but at least we're not deluded fascist jerks.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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> Also, I have a problem with people who become atheist because of something bad happened to them. They are hating God, not coming to the realization that God doesn't exist. Two totally different mindsets. You seem to be almost on the same page as me, you just need to take it a step further. So, we all agree that emotions don't tell you anything about truth (you can't emotion your way to f=ma). So, you can't realize God doesn't exist from some emotional impact. Similarly, emotions and feeling can't give you moral truth either. To most of the world, morality is neither a subset of desire or emotion, but is an absolute truth that defines which certain actions should or should not be followed. A person can not discover these by "following their heart."
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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> public sphere with private worship untouched Strictly speaking, atheism by itself does not demand this. One could imagine atheists forming an anti-theocracy, where (say) anything relating to God was outlawed. This idea of separation of church and state (at least in the US context) was developed, not by atheists but deists/freethinkers and Christians alike.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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This post makes it appear that Christians are calling atheists closed-minded and dismissive, while pbrocoum is an atheist himself. This is entirely disingenuous.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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"One could imagine atheists forming an anti-theocracy, where (say) anything relating to God was outlawed." Not really, no mainstream atheist speaker (even those people love to call 'fundamentalist') is saying anything like that, most of us are fairly live and let live IF the religious keep their religious ideas out of health, education and social issues. I think you'd be surprised how many of your founding fathers were atheists. Anyway it's all very well for Christians to help found that separation but they're not doing a very good job of maintaining it.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Morality is not an objective truth discovered apart from emotion. Neither is it a subjective thing originating solely from one's personal feelings. It's somewhere in between.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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The majority of religious people in the world, and even a large number of agnostics and atheists, would completely disagree with you.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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With people like Christopher Hitchens writing books with titles like "religion poisons everything," it doesn't seem such a stretch. Regardless of the ebb and flow of popular rhetoric, atheism has nothing in its core of belief that compels its adherents to advocate the freedom of religion. Christianity has done some really fucked up things, but at least these can be evaluated in a comparative context. E.g., would Jesus really have been that big a fan of the Crusades? The same cannot be said for atheism -- since it's amoral, anything goes (as long as you're doing it without God).
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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I agree completely, rensyphon.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Morality should be a logically derived set of guidelines made by society as a whole.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Morals are human. Religion just attempts to control them as they attempt to control social conventions like marriage. I find it risible that people try to claim morality stems from religion when religious morals are looking more and more creaky and in some cases plain evil.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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The question "What Would It Take to Convince You God Exists?" is certainly not stupid, especially since it has been asked in "atheism", so it is not a mere proselytization move.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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That might be so. The question asked, however, was not stupid.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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It is a ridiculous question. The answer (*evidence*) is so simple, that for some-one to actually type out the question without figuring out the answer in the few seconds it takes to do so demonstrates a serious lack of intelligence.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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You are touting the extreme on the religious end and only the super moderate on the atheist end.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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No I'm not. In American public life religion is heavily involved in a number of issues and I don't think I'd call that extremism, religious extremism is groups like the Taliban. Yet you have the Mormons preventing gay marriage, the religious right opposing stem cell research and creationists trying to impose religious teachings in science classes. Who are these extremist atheists and what are their extreme positions? I've never heard a public speaking atheist say no one should be allowed private religion. Link me up.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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I've seen atheists here in America advocating rounding up and killing theists. If you really want to use extremes that may be a good one to start with. This occurred with the Russian Revolution, the Chinese Revolution, The Khmer Rouge, North Korea and many more. You can say most atheists aren't like that and I could easily counter that most theists aren't like the loaded examples you gave.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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And those who are tolerant and respectful are great people whether religious or anti-religious. It's a pity the atheism subreddit is full of bigoted, hateful self righteous pricks.. It's probably just mob mentality working on them.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Actually, it is.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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One might even say it's jerky.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqRER2MkVyakJWYnJtdFkzS3QyWUFhTEF4OTIzNXJRMHFtNVpDTWItSUlxTUNER0V4bzEybGVORVhCaHEycTVDTjJyYTEtaldKeDFtc085WGd6NW9OYVE9PQ==
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The question, > What Would It Take to Convince You God Exists? Number 1 answer, > evidence Your conclusion, > Atheists are jerks, too -- When asked a serious question, they responded with the same close-minded, dismissive arrogance that they always complain about believers having. Asking for evidence before blindly believing something that has no physical proof is considered close-minded, dismissive, and arrogant. Really?
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqd0pIUDFvSUkzelRwOTZuTDlYN2NvbFl2WkJPWE9NWDYzbFFFWVRxZTlxUUJvZ3ZsMjAtWlYyNjdBenBPQnpXU0JKYW1hV19YTjZPOG85VVhXQy1weVE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczci10NGc1TzdiWjh4bzZrQVZKbU9mcGZNMTdGNjhiVW5CX01ZeF9Gajc2SF9kcE1sODVKbFFaNG5XWnk1Vk92UU5jeHNCZlRMTGlHRDB0WmpqRUE1NFo2RTFBSTlWQjFvNnQ3dEhBMzV0TjFKUWQ5OGI1UTBHNTJEUTIwVzBxNFpBc3l5SG1Ub01wT05sclVvbnFUV2dlNlhmWHhkaVBnTEhRbnV2TXRBU1ViVWdXTDg0MmZNSlpWMW9jZHI2ZTM1YUFKSGtUcnpJc0R6b2VzaGF2WkgtZz09
You do not understand Atheism. Atheism is amoral the same way it is asexual. It is not a code to live by, it is just a lack of belief in god, your god his god, any god. People who do not have a reason to believe in god get their morals from other places, not from some book of outdated fables. You can try and apply logic "You do not believe in my god therefore..." to a person, but unless the end of that sentence is "so you don't believe in my god." you are making unfounded assumptions.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Sorry, but I have never heard an Atheist say this. Post a link to a you tube video or a credible blog and we can talk. Also be aware that if you do you invite a reply of videos and quotes of theists saying far worse.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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I am sorry but the only moral absolute truth I can think of is do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Anything else is a flexible refinement on this and largely depends on your society or subset of society. If you want individual examples of changes in moral codes as old as the bible or as recent as the 70s I'm sure we can whip up some examples.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqUDlTcXVOS1lLZEhXcGhMQU55WXBicUo4VThJTGx6UDdFcE9PUTlidlZuUTRNUmRLWjRpZTc3U3hha0Q3bXptTFJCVWNVX0J2VlZkS005TzY0akZ0U3c9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczNEVVVGduYllGUHZHakZGYUJzdEZuNmp5R0FiWjE4c1RoeFBDaTVid2lNY0JUQmlLVk1DM3lGSmtHblk5aE5wamIyRy1yWWtBdkdRemdYbmMybmZLMlp6X3JfZDNINV91NFJDSWVSUTZ0OHJpcmhjLTEzUHllU2xNbkVRU1RGWXJCX09LUzRMaU5mVFU5dWM5WXdmcnhGMHlWTVk2ekpCZTZBVGNMNHZnWFB4VnVkbC1fbXYyOVZpMXFxd0Y0SzVHdG5uaE1jekJiVGxOMjJibHhqcHl2QT09
I know a lot of people don't really understand what it means to be open minded, so here is a video teaching you exactly what you need to know. http://sciencewhynot.blogspot.com/2009/04/true-open-mindedness.html
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Huh? We respond with LOGIC and PROOF. How is citing replicatable, documented examples being close minded???
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczeVZBcHg3aVFhN2dqLXBPUmYyQlhBcjBWYXNXYl8ta1B1VlY3VmRpdURLTTh1MnBlamFOQXRPcXgxUWVSaEFrU01LbTllcDRkX0R2MzdERkNMalU1cllFUHkxU0hMekw2bXZ3OWFUeThSaVNZS3psSlF6dFE0amdzR29GZTNlOVBMUmVzZThSeVBtWTVsYkplSWZsam9EYXRVTG1zdEZBNGo4eDNjX1UzTVJZcHdiS0s0S3NZSXkxNHdPZHJWLVFOYl9XZzZQQUg1OHFiNUxYbzJlQmc4Zz09
And how much political traction do these theoretical atheists have, especially in America and other Western countries? I can find plenty of influential Christians trying to use the government to push their religion on people. I don't see any influential atheists advocating that we use government to prevent people from believing. Trying to claim that the two groups are just as bad is simply dishonest.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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> It is not a code to live by However, ixid is claiming it prescribes government ideals. Either atheism prescribes a way to live -- or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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What's the question? pbrocoum has made no comments here explaining the details of his post. I've seen the opposite problem here, Atheists too eager to answer any question. Atheists have different values than Christians. Christians are against zeal, hate, and disrespect. These seem like good values, but the end result, evidently, is that Christians have so little zeal, hate, and disrespect, and so much apathy, love, and respect that they hurt people individually and as a whole. Atheists are free to adjust their values to circumstances of fact, while Christians are welded to a permanent, unchanging worldview based on their interpretation of stories foreign to modern life.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Even better, the Platinum Rule: "Treat others the way they want to be treated". Too bad Jesus never thought of that one.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczQ0w4OFREaEEtRVlxakVtNnpxeHYtQ3ZnQzlxQ0Nab1dJWjFVMm82ZE1mWDU0TU1QbE1mVUpuYlR3UXZyM2wxejB6SG9WN0trTlBlR3R6OERaSERjSnFCdjRPU04tRWJOV0JpclFBZmxZUmpxTFFyX0lYeW5KOGNzSEttbktaTWlRTkFfd2tVYzBUTENBTEYwaUlhX0Mwb1dTbkpScm1zT1ZNdy1wRzFVUEQtbHQ3N0VyOHNXdnZtbGFvaXZmVnZoMUxqMDdhVXRfRElFdGgxMTBQaDVKZz09
Great video, it should be mandatory in school.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqYjNKWGR5VVYxSlAzZkR6SlhyVWJrNENfTHNSclI3aTFxYzZRTTE5RlpsVFE5MHFSeWdDdmpBWnVnVHdhWktxLURCZE96SGxXWGdDenR2V0F5ajRfcWc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczZmxPVk1yZHlrbzE3S05aWlpvbEVkSU8yZkItZWpzSUphYll5QkVNUmpzaE5SenpxZGpLX1RyRmtDZWF0TlVocmhUSzJZMUJrZm4xMmt3cVFoREpLMWlFLUxnMkNwZFUyX01sOTdDdHJlTmlIZlJzRE4wcG1uYnFNZ2tjeHVxVFp3aGMtR2xDeEthQm5QcTRUSHoyTGpjYVM4a3pLaWFHUkZJRVNMU3BYVl9SZzRuZTJhOE95WTR6U21McjM3cUJ0VzYwc1gxU3FWTkRuWVJvQ0FnVU9FZz09
Thank you.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqNUdpdGJXTWxMZUtnVGVYLW9RbHNMSHFuM0E0Q3ZUMWFWTzhSUVdOTFNRUnhVeFo4TW5vcGxsRUVENlV5VG0wdy1xdTBJVzdjTFRvbzhZNnZISG5DNlE9PQ==
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Yeah, I don't really understand where the conclusion "atheists are jerks to" came from. There were some kind of jerkish answers on the page, I guess, so some atheists are jerks, or atheists can be jerks sometimes ... But I think we all knew that.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqY09DeUlZVkJLRnRVVlBRVVhTQ1A3b1V3dEhVVEtpdTRjZDd0a0ZsVThHNFQ0R3VUZzljWnJoUERCb3ZrZ0FoX1UzbGxMVkVKSkFrdHNSLUl1aDZiN0E9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczeGJKNVNMdTc3emJNSWdzS1JEQnVoVTM3MTk4NkREakstVDZYTmRhRXFNZmpzXy1GdDdfWEl4SFBzNHRSeGJnamxPMWVUb0ZtSjg0YUI5TG1hZ2JfQlFsMFBnMHZSRzloT2dFQWktbGhKZFdGY3c1dUlaT2hjQk1DZFVEN3I3Xy1aODY3UjJNUC0yNFJCeS1NVmxiNk44Vl90YUdsRUFtX095RkE1c2tLWEkzSFM0amR4OF9kXzYxcXN5bnh0VE5fb1VYcjFpeklaRDE1eFhaeWQybjRJdz09
>One could imagine
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqck9zby1HXzk0ajM5MFNTWXRqVS1UaHF0SVhobVczTE5IRGV2VmM4bXZwM0dWR1gwM1hyVmpGa2tNdDVERXlhWjVjLUNtNi04Zl9WRWFtQ1NuOVNfWUE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczM0NzLWYwTU5XX2F2TEQwZVFMdFkteEE0Q29CSnNuNDFjX2p6UVNLcVNLbVNSVkRCU0pCb0poRVV6SFB2cW1VTUtKdEdsSWd4c1N5M3lGVGJpYU9RbWxxdWRoMlcwWTJnd1ZlVjE2WmNLeWNZVnRvSW0yeEV4bF9vdk1PLXpiOXdZREVydnRvVndNeldOc1g2Zy0yU0pZWDFycUJMUVpTUlBGTDJvU3A3SmJIcDEtSHZZX3ZmT3ZYTzBGc2FBS0gwZ3dQOTlyT1E2MzY2Z3FLUFZXNDYxQT09
Okay, this is the part where you guys discuss why you think it is or isn't.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqaXRQbVlkZUpESERZM202c1BKRGJIamtDM3BFb1RmX2xKR3RueHozcmVZR2JNY2w4bXhVN1ZzdFN4dmdHX3FsTDFvQXlDd2YzeTRfZXdHU0t4b1VyZWc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczSG5NOHZsMkp5U043NUtrM0NybUpMM2ozd0RuLXRNclJ3Y0pBM3RaOExhUjk2UFM3RkFST2FJV1hDSDMtdVI2Z0xuZElrem5XdERfbFdwOW5hbU1UWl9aVUt0NHZnNTJLbkdWR0YtbHRweU1UakhzMmxFSVNPZUt4Q2pEdFNaWVNBeE9vcXpENUtyWGwzNXVIUnpKM1RQWTZIR1pCb3MyTkpGQm5qUWU4UlMwOHloV0VVVE5UWFBQY0xtOG1oNE9vU250d0t3bTViZTFiTURFVEtOMTJCZz09
The problem is that both sides pick out the most ignorant and hateful members that hold the contrary viewpoint, and parade them as examples of what the views of the other side produces. This goes for politics too. In short, there's a much larger group of thoughtful people on each side than either seems willing to admit. It's the thoughtful and moderate (in demeanor, not necessarily in viewpoint) that advance debate, not the bozos.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqU3pYTWJ3UDJGaFlpLVhYSlZyMFpBTXNuRldxLU04a2puMEpNRFFLa3VpNG9DN3VkQzRqVktNZkhDdm9VemtrSlVwYnFqdTkxY3Nod2Y2Nlo4ZUpzcGc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczbXRPNi1JclV2UXNkWHRVWmJ2MkFiZjBpWmtOSFR0MGFmb1BnSkZjVVdiako0SXdZVFhGaGRHNHlkOWRGTER1amd4dnVheW54ZnRjbFUtR0pQQUctbWdqQmV0Y0IxNkVMS2ZQeFJMaGtXTzNFNnFVRjdZeWZNYVJ0U3RGckdHUHMxZWpUMmNid0Y2UTltc1RtbmhUcm1sQVNpMjYxUkJvSXU3SmpJRG9hbkJJSFdhR0JVR0VmaVczdTVxN3VndjRibkxSV0FsRlZpbHNGM0JhQjAwdl9wQT09
"I've seen atheists here in America advocating rounding up and killing theists." LOL BS. Your examples are so far off the gaga end of the scale and aren't a part of the mainstream discourse. My examples of the religious are from the mainstream discourse.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqQ2xfNEdpWGRfOEhEb3RoZDJkRjZ5akc2UXY2dEs2UDBWbGoyOHBVNGR5b3JMTHJoZ3R2QWNJOXhLQVVVLWhiblhkSHhfbUVkWmJ1dkZ1QlM3QjFkT0E9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczMkFubmNlc0U1OHp3cDFBUDV4ZmxmOE9GT01qcTNMa0xnaERyUlFtUkliYndpTDlHcmR0M196bENKOWQ5RFZLRkpZTkt3alVrWk9fLVhBajFDSlNjSjhvT21sQzY0ODhHWndRSzhlVnBVRVY5bVkxNm1aNkNDTUZrUjZGSXlqbkhqb2dibnJFUTM0Zm5LSkd6dDRGUmJNZU9oLUNsNDBSV3ZfYm9IVHV1eFJJU2RxcUEybVNUVDE3SG5RSU9VMnE2UWhCeWlCTEpkdW1xUTU3aVBvaEFTUT09
Many people attempt to be so open minded that things fall out.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqeVh2LUVkOGQwOXBlazduck0tV1k2LU02OXJrbHU2ams4VUxHa2ZLSWRiai1BT1NycmRaN25zSTA4eDVETzdTUldPTmJTSmw5dDZXZkFvR290cV9XUGc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczNWpoRzYtU3BnS3ExUHVZN0FrOVJzUDhMWVJ3VWYzTXlQR2JoSjVxVEt2dnpQUGJEZlo0dklvbk9PVmdPMnRvWGt4aEVOQzRmOVRiNV9RWVR2YUNHa0pVWXZnemJWLV9aRmlRb2xVVFpvRmZkbmlXeUd4QmlTMm5nN20xTk8xelZYSVdzM1pwamNndFdfZExnV0wySThWSjFsMlR4Z3g4SmRvaHhHWlpBLWhVdXZHeWl5X1hHaGtvamVPRjB0RXRHbEpBNzZoZ3pXYmR0MGYyVVdTdlBPUT09
>I've seen atheists here in America advocating rounding up and killing theists. That's a very uncommon stance among atheists. I've heard plenty of Christian evangelicals say this about Moslems though.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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The answer isn't ridiculously simple at all. "Evidence" is a very vague reply, though it is fitting to a very vague question. How about this one: A being levitates down from the sky and proclaims to be God. How would you decide whether it really is God, or just an alien from an advanced civilization trolling the humans?
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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You can't give everyone what they want.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Didnt say anything about giving. Was talking about how you treat people.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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My examples aren't mainstream? The examples I gave are some of the worst crimes ever perpetrated on this planet and the were done in the name of atheism.. You only accept examples that are convenient to you? Fine but that simply makes you a rotten liar who I can never give the benefit of the doubt to again. Certainly a group responsible for killing over 110 million in the 20th century is more mainstream than a group that told some women they can't read. I'm sorry you are so disconnected with the mainstream that you feel obliged to say such things weren't what happened when atheists were in charge. The best you can come up with is Christians wanting a say in what marriage means? I'm not saying theists have their hands clean by any stretch, what I'm saying is that comparatively while we have dirty hands you have dirty arms and torsos.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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And about Atheists as well.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Simple. I can ask the exact same question, replacing the word "God" with any number of never-before-seen entities with the exact same characteristics, and it would be generally regarded as a stupid question by just about everyone. For example: "What would it take to convince you The Invisible Pink Unicorn exists?" "What would it take to convince you Zeus exists?" "What would it take to convince you The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists?" "What would it take to convince you Allah exists?" All stupid questions, regardless of what name you want to give "God".
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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You are too silly to have this argument with. This will probably seem like a victory to you.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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It is more common among atheists than it is among theists comparatively. I've never said it was common or a majority or any of that type of descriptor either.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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So your rebuttal is that if an atheist says such a thing it is OK since a theist has said something similar? That doesn't make it go away or dispel my argument in the slightest.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczVTZsQ29FSWhrNnNqR3pDUDhUaUM3T3c5ZFNkRVI3elhLUlpmWnJzR0hHcXFnNG56cGhnSzJqd21BYkVvV2x1dDcwS2VNSU4td2hUQktEbWpFeWZ4T2lDUUxoMkpUclJTd1M0WFVkdnJTRlpPYTNHQmo0aWlzMnV1aWNVSE1OQWZRLURMVFRWakF6TmVJRHl2Mk1BVE03S1RBMnY4NTNJMURRZ0dYd203WHNjQ0xtN3ZfNExOY2hwWVNCMlh0bER5eV9NRW1WMG9xX3VldGlWRXR5ZmxPdz09
Why, because I expect you to hold yourself to the same level of credibility and accountability that you expect me to hold? Sorry but all things considered atheism has killed more people in the last 2000 years than religion has. Atheism has been a driving force behind or alongside many things that I would hope both of us recognize as deplorable examples of what humans can do to each other. Unlike you I don't pretend that my association is free of it.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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God damn, talk about self centred, Buddha said the same thing before jesus, and half the parents alive in the world before Jesus was around said it to their kids. It is a moral truth that I think every moral person, religious or non religious believes in no matter whether they are emotional. That seems to be a problem. Taking credit for a few good ideas, pretending you have a monopoly on the idea then using it to justify a bunch of crap ideas bigotry and protectionism, welcome to religion. *Not targeted at etherreal specifically, s/he just hit a nerve :) the Platinum rule is good except you don't know how most other people want to be treated, so treating them how you want to be treated is a good place to start until you get to know them well enough to realise the differences.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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I'm sure even you see the flaw in that argument. Just because a majority thinks something is true doesn't make it correct. A majority of people also think the sun revolves around the Earth.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczdWUzb3laNjlQZlJiTnNVY1Y1RDdjaWtiRHg3U0pGOEwxaWIxbk5GaUFkRENrVzBsSS1iZlpvT180UlhhUUYzV3Y2Vk5Sd1N1UGZIbE1Gb085aWFaSjBiRS1lcGw3X05aUTZOVDliejQzZEktY3dYUG40Vkt5QXVSLVIwazRmdk1NVDltQlBwSF9hcUlnUnI2T2dDVVd5VjJKNUdUc1VUQ0tJNy1zSWZZTmtxR2FMWE9WOGhOcTF4Wl9VVWlZbVRCazM3ZDhpcDdPZnctY0pjb3U0elphUT09
No my rebuttal is this kind of violent shit hardly ever gets said but is said by religious people who cannot resort to a logical argument a lot more often (let's fly a plane into a building to prove them wrong mentality, or an SUV into an reproductive rights clinic). But let's take one example ixid mentioned, Gay Marriage, which is essentially the same issue as interracial marriage was in the recent past, not ok in some religion's eyes. (But for a different reason, because a gay Christian used to be less likely to have little Christians). The argument is, have Americans voted on rounding up theists to kill them? Or have they been forced to vote on a ridiculous out of date religious view of marriage that is tantamount to a hate crime? Gay marriage on every moral ground should have been made law as soon as it was thought of, no one should be voting on it, let alone campaigning against it. One of these two things is all pervasive, in the news and in your face, directly affecting peoples lives and breaking their hearts. the other is something dreamed up probably by a religious troll somewhere which 99.9% of people have never heard of or would ever seriously agree with (no matter their view on religion). So once again who are these extreme Atheist's directly affecting your life? none that is right none.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqaEQyRGxRYm8yUWpfZ2FsMzlNbUZvZEpMXzJiZXNkdFctdS0wYy1Qd0lqSlM0dW9ndk4wTmlRZkl6b2Z3alZHN05fMkdOX1dvSWxCM2haRGhwZTcxNWc9PQ==
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You all do realize that "evidence" is not an answer. WHAT evidence?!
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqQk5jNTJqaC1ZY0lDcVdKbjRuSF9tRXpONWFKbVQxZEVBZkxhZjdHN2huMzZMY0t1bHp1ZnpCNHROSE1neW1xeFdPYUNqSHN6elhFa1FUdXJXSUlEeUE9PQ==
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Uh any evidence that isn't anecdotal and can be confirmed? I think it's a valid answer.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
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True, but we're not exactly talking about a concept that can be empirically tested, or even mathematically reasoned. Still, it seems logical that if such a thing as good and evil (morality) really exist, they'd be absolutes based on an universal standard.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqa2NhRF94OU9jdC1GSHZXUXMtUm51NTFWSG4tRkdlYy0tcE1jSk45VHNLLUlTQ2hIUGNnOEVGSHBzZWxmTGVXT3A2LW1ZVVRocG5MSW1PZUdZSFY4S2c9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczVzNOM1ZhY21oMDdBVHNQRjdndGI5NmQ3NFJqOHNKSG1vU1pMM253VnJMREh5cU10TVgtUEpRV21sUmp0TThIdl96bmtKVzIyQ05lVFVocE43bUNpbVc3RHVYV2IzZnlGN0twQTdIS1Nrb3JVZDNEa3VObkhwOTY1YzMwYXN6dTVVanN6X2VGb3JuVEgzZFhfR2NKZmFkZGFmdTAxZG5IbVFyaEVHMHc3TDhYSGY4bUFsbF9ZSWczd0stQ250c0dxYzI3YVRObHRycm9fMEhPS0wyQjFCUT09
So what makes that one "absolute truth"?
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqSzRTZDlUM3dTTGkwNVhkQzM5d1FzQXppQ19QcllDX1oyeUFYS3RCWWJSWHdVUzlrSEhVMU4tQWVRQWl5X0hjRXZHd2hSYzdYUEZsSTZ5VHZTU2JqOGc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWcza3hlUzFZQnhPN0k0b0JoUk1UUHBSdWRYR2p3ZnlPQjlwaS1hLXd2Um8zaFBPd2hvdWt0WHdhUnFWMzktOGlNMDNqRXdsX2JzZ3Qtb2R0RU5UNzN2dXJ2NS1ZM05LZVZSU3IwMmJKMFZlaU9KS0I3RmlNVFROZmhDV0pqcGFKc3pPdmhmX0RKZy05cXc2T2lybmR5V0xCMUhlSnFjemhweTM5QjNRTTdoaGVpY1B6ZHZlWng5cDFxVDd3V0IwVGZzQUtEb2IzWGFMNGhOTUMyLUl6akhVZz09
9-11 pales in comparison to what atheists have done in China or Russia. Hell the holocaust pales in comparison to either of those. You refuse to acknowledge that and you want some angsty 15 year old to be the example of an extremist atheist? That is my point as I originally posted, you cite the super-moderate of the atheists juxtaposed against groups like the Taliban or Al Qaeda? Sorry but if you want to compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges you need to take into consideration people like Pol Pot or Kim Jong Il II who kill and ordered executions simply because someone wasn't an atheist. That is the kind of honest comparison that many atheists by and large seem to be afraid of accepting even though it's the only honest way to discuss a comparison. If you only make an argument that is convenient for you refusing anything that isn't convenient than you're just another liar, another bad example. Another person incapable of having an honest discussion. Even while you are trying to warp an argument, trying to warp what words have been said you expose the fallaciousness of your argument. You expect a minority view to be the dominant view and in fact call it a hate crime. You have to employ special pleading to damn theists for things you clear atheists of doing.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqc1FCenhNMnpBeU5GeGZRYll0V2c3T3NaUVlOam4ydU03NHBZeGVIZXFBTEZQWEFxMEZZUWtfZmtNaFpmV21odHd3V3pIVXBLZy1ES1lmTWhoVG5RUlE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczSDVfOXlLd1FHbEFBRTZsTGlxRDByTGpFWHZQOXp1WkhSZFpvRXNaZFlPRE1EV0lodnlwQ2dlaVF0bGRBdnQweTdncWsxdGlDRlU2b2NQSE1mRE5DY2NxTWtWQ3JrLW00MTg3TGNLN2g1NVQyQWpvUHZWSG5IaG9NZmxpbWJVUFRvaS05clI4U2pQSDFFYXgyOUQzeXRmSG44UGg0QWVlVzJhMlE2TW9CaUY0WFVWTnR1dlVOTERjQURGQjQwRGRJcW0yZmlqY2NKTDRqZ1UzbnJ2dTNuZz09
How about "any". A person saying they hear a voice in their head telling them it's the voice of god and then that voice tells them to write things down in a book, does not automatically make what they write in that book the word of god. It makes the words written in that book, the words written by a person who claims to hear the voice of god telling them what to write. Since there is not a single shred of evidence to prove in any way that the voices those people heard in their head was the voice of god, and it has been over 2,000 years since those words were written, then all logical conclusions lead us to believe that the probability that those individuals actually heard the voice of some one and true super being is next to none. Every single person on the planet believing the Earth is flat, does not make the Earth flat, belief has no relation to fact.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqZGh3RGFQRUxUYk42RExGRUxqVlJwaUlsUHgtemRiWFljLUJQSDd5WkJsSlBNb1NXSTJZSjNCSjBJcjBVc0tsUVNhV0RsQjNRS0dMbEFVS0JkTExLTWc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczRnd1RWxpQVJFcUFLMlBVN3cwa0ZlTUVzWVJwUmdubGdjUmVRUjJ4LVZMa3R4T19DRzhkVjNtcTJxczF4UFI1bERtdmd3NzZBLWhidWhxQV82aVd6aHd2MjNmZXhEUEl2dXBvaUFfMWV6dVRRYVVfR0tkcDNPcWFXSEdEZmlULUxQOFplQXdjWVVSQ2JfUkYtSklCdXJWZkZZcElSVzdLS0hEdW5NekVTRmVzcEpvQlpQWk9iam1zU180bTR2WndSOTBxNkVYUE1DSkF6QjczQ180YzRRQT09
Actually the sun and earth revolve around a common center of mass, which is a short distance from the center of sun. This is what science does to you.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-19
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqb1FfODVtVlM0MlIzQTdkZFh0UmFPaWpKc05Pbi10ZFJoWUtoU1ZEZjUxMTZwWTR0X3JwT1BvVWpKOW8yYm1QVjBGVFc2ODNuMEZBWmRKdjNhSEliZVE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczSHVQVDVIQ1VBZmtFWG1BSUtzZVJaS3B1d3NiYy1yTk5SZlh0SzFNUjBPNkYxZHZUbkQ3Smc5ODFTVVVCaUtnTXF0RXl0YlloUm9ISldUVTl4emZhNFZPQ1FRUlR5alByT0Z5WmxKS2lxTVVzWmtCS3lYVzRwbUl1ajNVSXd5NWpfVGdMWjE2T0tkSFNBempzcVlDLVBpTkFCeXlMeG9VS3pyTnRjMTlWYzZSM3c2eEIzZ1JIZmpOUXlTSWpjd0lubHZuaEp3OG9lRWJyTkZVX25iUzBYQT09
Did you just complain about aggressive groupthink and attempt to stir us into a zealous frenzy by demonizing another group of people at the same time? You've got cajones, pal.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqYlZuSVZVcmRrNDJKeTRXWWhsSW1kZGhPeW9xblEyb3pXZE5JTEU5dnBaUmlaVFNZbmpYOEROZjR2VTFZODlleEJkeVhaX0tldUJnMDE5SEQtVzlBVXc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczanlGVFBhN1FqaUEtal9wU0R0TEtRS0R3TTVGb0o1OUtabGJGWUFyeVNJVnBPWWlKS1M5ZlFGbGM3TjJ1N3pxZHNXMFVHdEpFMGRRSnByc0toYUhQMWotN1U0WF84Wko0NzVWS0l0R2pVVlRHLTBONUJIWmxYd3dvUXprMFVsWjlKU092WnBpeWpYeU5vdXVvX0FiY1J3LTZSYVRjc0VMOElhRmthLVg1TWsxc09pRnJub1BQRjVXYlAtdnVQS0t0MzNlT2pHMm5qWmF2ZUh0MjVndjVTZz09
Test it's powers?
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqLWVTMVFTNXRvZzVtcDdMNDhTQjRpelZsYWIzVXYwZ1AzQlJRUTg1MFpBaHd4VXZ1amlPRXVMLUtvb29Ja2JpVVdnMkFCc0Y4dUtucktYbE1SOUo0OVE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczVzhTcklHQjJwMjVfOE5KbmQ0ZmIwYk5QYi1ua0hkTjlMLU5Ma09Bd2J3UEdXRXFDZXNWaXVNR3Y1YWhDU0c2NWoyWDNGbm1JYXZISkRzbGJXUnd6WEJRMGVwNlp0TVN2akp5eWxwaWdjMEFvMk5mS2g2RE5HRm4xVC1JSUxraFJHZXNUV3NMdmJGR2xSV2FLUHprbVB4RDkxOF8zQ3FzakdlS0VFc3U1UFViZ2xsZU9rdDB3WUhOOTV5c25Vb2lBT0R3YzZfM28yZ29PNGhlUDR2a0dlUT09
How do you go from thinking morality is not a concept that can be empirically tested, or even mathematically reasoned, to logically deducing that morality is an absolute based on an universal standard? That seems contradictory.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqOWIwYjgxX3dXRE9WWDh0VXNkSWNUT3VQNWdnVTY1QkdLTTcwMFVpeFEzRVVMOTIxcFFRZkRZVFpvSTFzWVlHRVNaMFo1c0xDR0RVOXlkUlV0UWR0QUE9PQ==
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I have a feeling this submission was planned and written up before any responses were even made to the other submission. IE, total trollbait.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqNGo2a3hjOXh3TWlFUk5ha0d2Z3pSMGNNVTlLb0N3TmhPT2g0UGdvRGMwR2tMb2NUVk5nQjVQYm5WOURhaU9JTHR6blJHM1dIRTQ4VVlYSXlXN0F2cmc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczeDlZeEMwS0VpTGdrX2lYLWIwYXB3ZUcyQngyaVFuTENhNWxOelhIWVZ1RFBJQjBXQjBSdWFtUkZRdGxod2h6VExSTXpzLTBQci1MNEFmRzd1UVVyUGp6aUNKS3BTQVNZSEt3R0dOaTlMY1lZTk1YMEJabDRaSTNKMkI4aXpoVjl2WnJwVGh0SDNvdlhacEliSEhpUjVVT250T1U2anZ1X3FaVG96M1dXMzBzVFh3cmNlZzZHNEh5MDN4MW1JWERIdEZjNzJvR3RrcF9MMXl6T09ZNXRUdz09
Ask it to heal the sick, feed the hungry, grow limbs of the amputees, bring world peace. If he does that and still isnt God...well, I dont really care at that point, he did more for us than God ever did.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqQ1pCeEVOdTFnMjdzbVA4WkZiVXVrWUxzZV9QN0I5bXhLOHNrVkxIY1dyVzdkVzc3VHVJaDdxOUtyXzNCWl9lUXlGdUVCYXpKX3pKRDFIT2hMNWY4ZFE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczeWNMdDlmdE1FeHcwOC1DZmxWNHVhbXI5OWw3U3JpQzlsdjV0WnB3dnpNZ2hrdlFHYlE2bTJEY2xrNk5UQXQxcEZNRzc5cHF2X0JINHFrN25rQjFSWkI4VXUwVjdEcG9wNkRGVWdhcHVFLWRORkE0YWZzUldTX2tkRzgtMVZwcDFaem9YYlFfSHNRM29VNjE3UXltV1BmMTducEcyd1hzbV8wZzdNT2tHaTMxOHpReVNQNUhIZjEwTlVKTlp3TmR4Mm5HRl9RSWJjODlucTVSVGZoblQwZz09
I am sorry but Kim Jong Il II and Pol Pot act/acted in the name of themselves, not in the name of Atheism, They want/ed to take and maintain power at the expense of all other types of power including but not limited to financial, political, social, inherited, military or religious power. I feel sorry for the people killed because they where religious the same as the people who where killed because their family disagreed with the dictator or had too much wealth. But to pretend the leader was acting this way because he was an Atheist or in the name of Atheism is disingenuous in the extreme.
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqWk1yRHMtcnV2YXd2YkFUSzNETDAyYVpvZ01HcEZZWWs4Mk80MHlRSXRVMFd6dHA2cThvRWtMbS1DQ0wza0xYRTRfWGM0bTZzSjBqVzNsZ0R5V292TUE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczUHFlMHdYUHBLNWh1V3dkM3F2eUlRQnVlOWdWanE2QkNvc2x6NlpUVzU5Ml9nSzJzVkF1dmQ4X3FHZERNUjcwT19uTTc0bnhTUFVjTUZjaG5mMVVCc2Y2VEFCRHdDYkJ0R0dUNzZ0cU9Qazl4V1YwV3NkM1JDYk5tckpKR1I3OTNvVDRmNFVfbVdham05S3Z3SUVGaXE1MTU2VV9IZ3p1VzA4OWlqUktVa1dvWEhjb1oyYl9WS2o4RndTUGl3R2UxdkIxbDg3VXpSajFpdVJFcHl2ZHFjUT09
"One could imagine" anything, so how does that help the discussion?
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqU3ppZF9FcmFBaTg5RzVCLTdNd2ZCMU0tX200bFFPMDhsUlJrYU40NEY4aEliVHhCTkNnaW95YlJ4Q3NuUEttaW5FX09ZeGFMU0ZzZnBrMWVRaWhHV1E9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczemxIS1hUX1JHMW5YRS1FR0d6dTNFNVQxYUg5UkRtM0dVZjJYaUdHYWR4MXR5OHBkcThYU0JQVzBmUXQyMnN2LThIdHNOTFlEVkE2Z3FmaHlTZExUV0FaQmk2NW1wZnRaRFhPdDR0aDhqSjlCWnFnMXpYOTdtSmVTcGhpWThIVHNQWURLUExrTklpOW9CSGk1aU4zQW1kR0pmSkxWZllpTVMzQkxnQm0zMC1CXzF0UGp4U2ZLYlZSbzRRZ3psWDY2b19iM3ZFN2RHSjhtMmxGZGVJZC11dz09
> Either atheism prescribes a way to live -- or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways. It absolutely does not prescribe a way to live, other than a lack of belief in gods. That's by simple definition. ixid was making a claim about the observed behavior of atheists, he wasn't claiming that they are following a prescribed plan.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqRExqbFZiR0FnSkpGcHJ4RkJjY2FsM1Z4TXVjUUJvdHZVRXRNNW1NRzVfNHV5am5WQ2lBSWJsVzNDdW9GUlV2bVJ4QU91Z0Q3ZS1BSVdEakRjQ2xjSmc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczaW5kUjhrdkx3cVdDa2hxcnJLUXRNeHY5dVdDaDlOWG5nVWc3b3A2a1lxZFp0MktLWDQ2UzRsRGpWRm1RNmZUQzlIZHZkZl9jR1BEeFNHWE1ibWlGZ010aUdkZFdGejh6MExPZWhCNkZtY0s3U2p6alFRaEJ1cF9MN0hsWTNGUE5lZjdBYjI0WE1heGZPbWF1ZlcxSjVUMW1leGlUVmVDN0tzVGtRNEdDa0NQVldTLUUzaUhWa2RmWEFoOEtsRW1temt4OEdxSjZBRUVxWDV2QXhZWjRlUT09
> Why, because I expect you to hold yourself to the same level of credibility and accountability that you expect me to hold? You made a claim about atheists in America, which you seem to be trying to support with examples from Russia etc. Your credibility is nonexistent.
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqZEJyekVCNFlBeUY1XzFpZzlZTTFLRFpadkd6U3h4Y1VvdGhDdmxoeFhXYVFESV8yU2IyM2FqRHdVVFdFdnhJd1dqM09LbDBBMUlzM01nNmo4OC1RQnc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczNTNfenpvblhJR3BYTGJlSzBwV1NKZm5XUy0xbGlHX05ORURKOWtPdWVIUEgxU2FFNWcxQlFHMElNTGI1UlJDV0dNQ1RUTFVyYUZNN3hlVFptSEhLcGE1R0hqZGJ5UE5VcTRUd1M3OURjY29LOXlVWUlBdW4xQV9iRDlfX0tqaWJCdlVUakRzUjFWSUhXNVVNZl9ZZlJaVzdrdDFpbWxOM0NfRzJyRks3TzM2cFJrN29PckZTNmFXQ1NMRnF2Mi1VN3k3X0JBMmRzYVlTdTRUOWJvTnVVZz09
Maybe it is not, but it is fairly well accepted idea in every society and culture as a bloody good guideline to live by and has been around since at least before Buddha (He said it as "Consider others as yourself." I believe). It is also a hell of a lot better than some nonsense about working on the Sabbath, not eating shellfish, honouring your parents (no matter how appalling and undeserving they are), not masturbating, not being gay (as if you could help it), not using condoms etc etc.
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqaVhDQ1FoRGd6aUtidy1oRnl1SVNkdy1iektSYUNxQ2lSOTFGRERkT0VOOFZPUERVTWNsWVdjdG53NzI2N1llaGMtOExDSjFZbVA2aDRCV1ZjYjN4Rmc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczRVNZQnp3VDNvZ2Q2RHlSX0wxZDRjVGhRTnE0X0trNDJrWm8tYzJoU0loX1NXbkQwLWRrZVhaTkdzWFFha2xEX0tqU1pMNTNqWFMtcXBaWU5TejUtaWU4cXhVczJzTUpPMW1QMUstd3VWeVUyMnBWbFpDNldZdF9RWTZDSGVIeE5pTXNoMWhkOF8xeXFrSnFHaGt4V0ZNUVV6TjYwZnJDc0ZidElnMzgzYWlEODhtM1VHZmpsQkpKeDVjYnI1RS03d3RUTWEzd2ZNc3NWUWZVZG9BT3NQUT09
And should do it's best to keep out of peoples private lives.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqVnRpWmlDaGp0MXR2bnJRUGM5VmFmUnZRZ0JOU0dzMzhBeXU4cE9hX0p3SmM1bldpa2hmN1IxaHhKNGRVVFQzVHZBbk40ZEJLNkN2djR3VS05SHU1LUE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczdTU3YU1PUW5FSFF1R050S29UWDJiZlRjbTBfb3h1em5KZ2F6N29tZXc0MDJzc21sV0lZZUdqcjdNZ01zejlRR2taXzZnX0tZUjkzYWpiSlFVb2dPX0FoTHF5Mnk5alN5RFdnYV9SaERCbC0wSC02TEhYMktVZ194QUNDY0FOUWRUQjhjeUNaYnphNmVVcTJYTlhaalo4TXJZT3gzcTN1RkFQVi1vWFRVcFZqdVkwb0hQY2ZraWFnTm9ob2I3akpKUzVyY1VVUDVIeE9sWmxkaTNCWEFhUT09
Gold
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqc2RkZ2ZRbnJMRFo5TDhsdWswaFNiWGxPOXEwRGlUVmZzUHllZG5WU0dZOEdMS21pNDI0S2NNQ0tNRkZ1RG9kRmhsY2s3UDJPd0F3NkNkVnVQUkhnZXc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczMG56M1RTaFdpdENqVjRMSHJsczFnNmdFSGpxX2RWZ2hfaFJjY0VKVEhiUmh2c3pkV25MTlNucElhbm9DcS1lWm0xaUJSZjRpYU5OVElZVm9FMThBb0lyWVFpaTJRbU1rUS1GbUxCRWVtYWdva2lhaUZTUkpzWFBLOTZXOHFqM3lTZ3FVZDdVdnBwcFdIZzBZNjcwX1AwbVI2dktnU3ZqYk1XZnd3OFdJUUo2MHRDRjFBYUtnYS1laGRLN2NZNjRjZ2FQT0Yxd0J6UjFBUU9KdVprWTV2UT09
Yet another example of special pleading? If you can say Pol Pot killed people who weren't atheists in the name of communism than any theist can use the same *defense* when you accuse religion or the religious of perpetrating crimes. Especially in the case of Kim Jong Il II and Pol Pot theists are/were specifically targeted and hunted down for not being atheists. For your argument to make sense you have to excuse your side for things you condemn the other for. If you excuse crimes for a reason you have to be able to excuse crimes for the same or similar reasons when discussing another side.
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqZTR1aWd1eENjRUVvLU9wSDdSbmcwMUNTWWdORmlNck84U241ZHJ0SlNhX1BPdDh1RFNLNlFqMkFaOFYwYW82QlJhNmkzay00YUs4LWZhNmlTWnN5M0E9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczTjdibXREaUhxdlNSODR3MTNpZE9mTGpoUEdyV0lQYWZ0N0xUMmhNMFlCbTB6WWM2Umd1b2QwY2stdGZTTlhMSU9hUHp3bHBGSDZWYXl2NmhfUzRMQnhGQnljYUxNUFhhS2JqZnJEV3YwM1V2VXNzRnhQWlhqQ0hNM0xfSkFDMFFJT2ZOTk5INnhNUjVPc2RKLVduOC15MzBKcnRQc0JVSlBHYmZSampjLWh1Qm5PM2VjZy1qTmI3aU9fcjN1V25iWXFsLVB3YkYwblJWU1hRcXpVUFp3UT09
That was part of my post though I didn't interpret it as a part that was challenged by ixid.
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqREtIME1rY20wQkwxWnhUWXVLdkNWS0VBdjNUWmZGTnNYWUtQc3FjZ1JFV3NNRkFueVBKdjBYZjE2a2YyRmJQMlJXNmc0LWppSFFYZnhMcE1uOHpsZlE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczTTdjeXZKMmYycU5xTEpmb3c4YUpEVHJZek1ENkdwWHJqa0FnTm0zbUZIbHdZVGxBWmR2ZHMtTmFCQzVOSms3TTZpN29jUURMMl9iLU51Mnk5MlBYNmktT0FYc3RJVkRmbXFZbzhDTDBaQlNvSFFGOGFGVG9YRmZ2UUdSWkFETG1VaWh2NG9yYVNPSWFsUFlybHphcmRzeHlvWjI0WGd5QWtaTUxncUwyNGFBdmNzdHhpRHc1c3J6ZVlOQkdLcUFhQkR0elNMTVdUYlpVeHBocjlaRzZZdz09
No because the crusades where religous crusades etc. But you fail to see the point, people do not do things in the name of Atheism and cannot use Atheism as an excuse for doing things, atheism is specificaly a lack of motive for doing things. It is a lack of belief a lack of excuse. And Atheism cannot distort someone's thinking to do evil (or anything) any more than not believing in faeries can, unfortunately religion can be twisted and used for evil easily and is used so regularly. Religion provides an excuse to do things. With the right reading you can justify nearly anything. Sure some Atheists are bad, just like some believers but the Atheist's do not kill in the name of Atheism, they have to have another excuse. As for your "your side, my side argument" you also fail to see that Atheism is nothing but a lack of belief, just because you have chosen a side does not mean everyone else is on the "other" side, it is just like football, you have chosen to play on a side, Atheists are just the spectators who have not chosen a side and hopefully never will. Unfortunately some who have chosen a side try to impose their rules/morals on the spectators and this pisses them off, thus some Atheists resent the games you play.
r/christianity
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqeXlJR19TMGY0cUx2dG1tdjhJRDRLbkJTUzFPLWc3UzlnelkwdEJCU28yeGJmNlo5aGlZeDFKcGlTOTA4SjBYY09kcURvS3RDRUdoUzRJeVozZnhKQnc9PQ==
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> It is also a hell of a lot better Better? What the hell does that mean? Sure, those are all a lot lies USEFUL rules, but utility has *nothing* to do with morality.
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r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqV1dtNHBzalo3Sl9MdjY0bXlhZEhZbk1yUXJNUXp4LThwb25EeFhyV3JSQXc1WjZiMUs4WHJBYnI3QWZydGlXZk9DQUIzZElaR2p5aHFTVUtOYkg1emc9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczM0ZJakZ5MjVJdnIzeTdYZEw2N3ZBMFotVnRsVTZfa3UzcUJwbU1KZkNkUHR5cFZ3Z1NNTUJzclFqM2M5dTdUZTVxRWRVMUxfNTg3MHViWDBtQTYzTWVrWGJBSlhBclF6TnpRcHBQOVVPdEpBY2EtWFk2NjJqRVA1QjA4MDNmUHJwMWotOHlZVE5BMVBMVThxU1ZvRjZhbV94MWl0R3ZMaW1kMWtfSWtvM1RCMy1fZG9aQUhkNUd2dHpHZkZiem9GaXZCSGVBazAyanQtcXk0WVlReVZidz09
No, by the same standards you apply to atheism the crusades were about political power or acquisition of territory. To suggest otherwise while you suggest what atheists did in the name of atheism is special pleading. This is where you expose your general ignorance and your welcome attitude to illogical arguments. You excuse and make special cases for your side all the while damning the other while failing to hold the same standards across. You can arbitrarily eschew sides however the moment you chimed in in favor of atheism and took part in an argument you took sides. Your argument is specious and lacking because you are afraid, unable, or perhaps just completely inept as far as these discussions. If Party A has X characteristics and you judge party A by X characteristics in one case but ignore X characteristics to make your argument you are committing a fallacy. I suggest until you wrap your head around what fallacies are you save us both some time and invest some of your time into how to make a good argument. Until such time you will continue to make very lame arguments with gaping holes that only work if you can fnd someone willing to ignore the horrible reasoning you employed to arrive at such an argument.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-20
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You seem to be more interested in talking about talking than talking about religion. I am sorry but the crusades where about who controlled Jerusalem, the holy city of three religions, If you want to absolve religion of the atrocities performed in gods name you are going to have to try a lot harder. Pol Pot never told his troops to "Fight in the name of not believing in a god" he may well have said "Fight in the name of Pol Pot" or "Fight in the name of the state" or "Fight to free yourself from religious oppression" or more likely "Fight or I will have you killed" but it was never in the name of atheism. you are trying to draw equivalence where there is none. Religion is too often used to divide people, to tell yourself you are better than those who are not members, to give you an excuse to feel superior than your neighbour. And therefore a tool to unite people against "others". What other social force could keep two otherwise equal groups that have coexisted for centuries(Sunnis and Shiites for example) at each other's throats for generations? without their religion they would all be so inter-bred they would be one people. Dictators, religious or non religious do it for power, but religion is a great excuse and a great way to sell it to the masses. Atheism is not a reason to do anything. The same way that not believing in Santa is not a reason to do anything. But if Santa worshippers where telling me not to get married, or they didn't have to pay tax on their 'Santa worship bungalows', yes it becomes my problem because Santa worshippers are having a negative effect on society. So the rational course of action is to try to convince them Santa is not real, and try to prevent the damage they are doing to society.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-20
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I'm showing why how you say things and what you said is logically inconsistent with what you say. I have to tolerate atheists prattling on about how they are so logical, you have to tolerate me telling you exactly hwo and why you aren't. Well or you could stop trolling this subreddit. >I am sorry but the crusades where about who controlled Jerusalem Look at what you wrote there as one example. It as about who controlled Jerusalem. It was a territorial conflict yet you blame religion. Mere sentences later yoou excuse Pol Pot who very explicitly ordered theists to be hunted down and imprisoned/killed for being theists. That is just one example of special pleading that you commit. You can make the same family of statements about the crusades or any other conflict that you attribute to religion but you don't, you apply condemnation only where itt is convenient to your argument, not where it is a part of the truth. Sunnis and Shiites are different cultural groups and were different groups before there was Islam. Different cultures have pretty much always found some reason or other to be at each others throats. Atheism is not exempt from that. Atheism is a reason used by many atheists. In the same vein Christianity tells it's followers to not be violent, and so can we just say that no real Christian is vioolent? Certainly not and so to be logically consistent you have to accept atheists will commit violence in the name of atheism or that Christians who commit violence aren't necessarily doing it in the name of their faith. To suggest otherwise is logically inconsistent with itself and specifically reality at large. Nice non sewuitur at the end though.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqeFN2SDdwUjRnakcyS0h1RHpQbEZBbGFDMHdnZjREU3A0VTNVQlJScDhNZnpVblVHS1RDckhVNmNiQUN3WTVZaDQyenlUbWdoN3JmTEFaRnhreGptOXc9PQ==
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I like the way you rationalise it, but I still cannot accept that the lack in a belief in anything is a motivator. Because you don't believe in faeries does it motivate you to do anything? Religious people claim religion as a motivator for lots of things including wars whether the enemy are religious or non religious.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqYjltS3ZWLXFpbjRGcmQ2LTlac1ppUVJxcG1BQXlJTTE4OEpHNDNQdmgzSm1kRmFxSzd0M3l4OWFLRm5iVkJWemI1c1RUR081NElJdGo2U0tZSTFQOVE9PQ==
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Pol Pot targeted religious people and buildings specifically.. Tore down churches,, mosques, wats. forced Muslims to eat pork or die, forced Christians into apostasy or death. If you weren't an atheist you risked death and you were a target for the atheist government. Yes, he targeted people who weren't atheists because they weren't atheists. There was no land grab here but a war on ideology where atheism was in charge and would allow no contenders. Atheism was the motivation for those killings. This is an atheist group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_the_Godless Albania is another example of horrors committed specifically in the name of atheism. The common cause of human atrocities isn't faith or lack thereof. It's humans. Fallible, violent humans.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-20
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqbEJLanRUQU44S0RVbGFaNEFnN2xla0pqOHQ4MWhQVERZSDBhZHIyaVAxdGx3VVpwalFhNk5sNHNkSm5hdnFzQjNPZ182RlkzUFh1a2oyR1lmM3psbUE9PQ==
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Thank you for the explanation, that was a good answer. I agree humans faithless or faithful are capable of atrocities. But Pol Pot's reason was a complete change of society to communism religion was one of the many things that had to go, to claim it was done to promote atheism or was mainly anti religious is not true and it was not his objective. Pol Pot cannot claim a divine right where a religious leader can, and a religious leader uses this to motivate good people to do bad things, why should we promote a dividing idea like religion that can be used (at it's worst) like this?
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-21
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqRENfT0xyTGV5cUZRb3U1WTdlUE1BdlI2eHU2MWZaTmllOEMzSkVPaVV1V2w5ekdlR2JKaUFOTXkxa2VBY2F2UW8tbU5wbHREUmZSTWQyMHR5bXZNVnc9PQ==
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That's the thing though, sure Pol Pot didn't claim his war on religion to be divine but merely because there is no analog to atheism. He actively did promote atheism though by the barrel of a rifle which is my point and what I have maintained. No matter how you view it he was an atheist who targeted theists for not being atheist. Lenin, a Marxist had this to say in his book *Religion* >[Atheism is a natural and inseperable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific socialism.](http://books.google.com/books?id=JoXJ5p8TNe8C&pg=RA1-PA5&dq=V.+I.+Lenin,+Introduction+to+Religion&as_brr=3&ei=dhwfSYiPO4myyQT1l-nVAQ&client=firefox-a) Atheism was state policy and it actively sought to eradicate religion of all kinds in the USSR, it was even worse in Albania. Just as you can blame things on religion, in the same light one can blame atheism. Just as you can excuse atheism one can excuse religion. Why put up with religion? Religious organizations were and in many cases are to this day the backbones of our medical infrastructure, some of the biggest driving forces in ending wars, feeding the homeless. One has to warp Christian teachings to justify war however being charitable and altruistic are very clearly mandated.
r/christianity
comment
r/Christianity
2009-04-21
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWdqTXJ4Q3NRQ2ttS3hEVnRMbVlybGlyVGd0NjZCUVBrTlM2YU9MRHV4UVZqOVdTSEptREtDQzZYLVJJR2xmUVpYUzBoMWdfUnR2cm5kS2M5cEg2WXZjcUE9PQ==
Z0FBQUFBQm9jUWczSjdZSG5qVEhONnFLVmxnOVA4TnlsdmRsd1NBY0xKYTU0TlJoUFZOMEw4Tkw0elNhSFA0MVZUb3FCSjdKUEJXMm1wdzVSMlZsX1pfV0dHOUhSdFoxVjNyYUtqMl9BRy1qUmdOcVQycU1pQ3ZxeFZIVEwwQnY2ZDI5VGFsUHBISnc3aUR3anZyQmVGTU1mZFhqZ0VaTWM3NHpwS2NxbF9xSnVKQUpPSnZncElORHZVVDVYN01HNnB6elpfUXhqOHc3emcta2U5U2dEQlN5Y2JOR3dpVk90QT09
End of preview. Expand in Data Studio

Bittensor Subnet 13 Reddit Dataset

Data-universe: The finest collection of social media data the web has to offer
Data-universe: The finest collection of social media data the web has to offer

Miner Data Compliance Agreement

In uploading this dataset, I am agreeing to the Macrocosmos Miner Data Compliance Policy.

Dataset Summary

This dataset is part of the Bittensor Subnet 13 decentralized network, containing preprocessed Reddit data. The data is continuously updated by network miners, providing a real-time stream of Reddit content for various analytical and machine learning tasks. For more information about the dataset, please visit the official repository.

Supported Tasks

The versatility of this dataset allows researchers and data scientists to explore various aspects of social media dynamics and develop innovative applications. Users are encouraged to leverage this data creatively for their specific research or business needs. For example:

  • Sentiment Analysis
  • Topic Modeling
  • Community Analysis
  • Content Categorization

Languages

Primary language: Datasets are mostly English, but can be multilingual due to decentralized ways of creation.

Dataset Structure

Data Instances

Each instance represents a single Reddit post or comment with the following fields:

Data Fields

  • text (string): The main content of the Reddit post or comment.
  • label (string): Sentiment or topic category of the content.
  • dataType (string): Indicates whether the entry is a post or a comment.
  • communityName (string): The name of the subreddit where the content was posted.
  • datetime (string): The date when the content was posted or commented.
  • username_encoded (string): An encoded version of the username to maintain user privacy.
  • url_encoded (string): An encoded version of any URLs included in the content.

Data Splits

This dataset is continuously updated and does not have fixed splits. Users should create their own splits based on their requirements and the data's timestamp.

Dataset Creation

Source Data

Data is collected from public posts and comments on Reddit, adhering to the platform's terms of service and API usage guidelines.

Personal and Sensitive Information

All usernames and URLs are encoded to protect user privacy. The dataset does not intentionally include personal or sensitive information.

Considerations for Using the Data

Social Impact and Biases

Users should be aware of potential biases inherent in Reddit data, including demographic and content biases. This dataset reflects the content and opinions expressed on Reddit and should not be considered a representative sample of the general population.

Limitations

  • Data quality may vary due to the nature of media sources.
  • The dataset may contain noise, spam, or irrelevant content typical of social media platforms.
  • Temporal biases may exist due to real-time collection methods.
  • The dataset is limited to public subreddits and does not include private or restricted communities.

Additional Information

Licensing Information

The dataset is released under the MIT license. The use of this dataset is also subject to Reddit Terms of Use.

Citation Information

If you use this dataset in your research, please cite it as follows:

@misc{James0962025datauniversereddit_dataset_19,
        title={The Data Universe Datasets: The finest collection of social media data the web has to offer},
        author={James096},
        year={2025},
        url={https://huggingface.co/datasets/James096/reddit_dataset_19},
        }

Contributions

To report issues or contribute to the dataset, please contact the miner or use the Bittensor Subnet 13 governance mechanisms.

Dataset Statistics

[This section is automatically updated]

  • Total Instances: 42618028
  • Date Range: 2008-11-11T00:00:00Z to 2025-07-14T00:00:00Z
  • Last Updated: 2025-07-14T16:39:51Z

Data Distribution

  • Posts: 1.81%
  • Comments: 98.19%

Top 10 Subreddits

For full statistics, please refer to the stats.json file in the repository.

Rank Topic Total Count Percentage
1 r/CFB 258640 0.61%
2 r/facepalm 256651 0.60%
3 r/NoStupidQuestions 253334 0.59%
4 r/AskUK 243310 0.57%
5 r/interestingasfuck 229424 0.54%
6 r/Millennials 217204 0.51%
7 r/PublicFreakout 209675 0.49%
8 r/SipsTea 208524 0.49%
9 r/AskReddit 206724 0.49%
10 r/AITAH 205488 0.48%

Update History

Date New Instances Total Instances
2025-07-11T14:46:27Z 42193539 42193539
2025-07-12T10:37:21Z 1848 42195387
2025-07-13T04:53:52Z 131399 42326786
2025-07-13T22:23:32Z 45018 42371804
2025-07-14T16:39:51Z 246224 42618028
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