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b: ooh. b: uh-huh. a: and when i look at modern cars and stuff like that, i just say i will never do that with the modern cars. a: it's not worth my time. a: you can't get in there.
a: you can't do anything. b: yeah. a: and it's so complicated too. a: i look at it a: and i say, boy, you know,
a: i, i'd have to almost go take a class or something like that. b: well i've got an eighty-three saab. a: uh-huh. b: and i find that for a normal, you know, everyday things. it's really very easy to work on b: and so, uh, you know, i'm kind of spoiled.
b: i used to have a chevy. a: uh-huh. b: with a three fifty in it. a: yeah. b: and, uh, i really liked working on it. uh, cause it was pretty easy too.
b: it was about a nineteen seventy. b: so i'm kind of, uh, biased in that b: and, you know, i want a car that i can work on because i think it just costs too much even to get the oil changed anymore. a: yeah b: and that's kind of, that's, that's probably one thing i'd look at.
b: i think another thing i'd look at is safety. a: yeah. a: that's one of the things that my wife and i have thought about. a: actually, the car, one of the cars we'd most like to get would be the new ninety-one ford taurus cause they're actually one of the cheaper cars that have dual side air bags. b: huh.
b: that's a real nice car, i think. a: yeah b: i've driven some, uh, tauruses over the last couple of years when i've been on business trips. uh, as rental cars. a: uh-huh b: and i've always been very impressed with the taurus.
b: it's a really nice car. b: i think it's very it's a stylish car both inside and out. b: it's comfortable to drive. b: uh, reasonable performance, b: and this is out in california where, where they don't make a car that's got reasonable performance anymore.
a: yeah. b: uh, i've been real impressed with that. b: and i didn't realize that they were putting dual, uh, air bags in that car now. a: ninety, a: yeah.
a: or, excuse me, the ninety-twos. a: the ninety-twos had dual air bags. b: uh-huh. a: this newest model. a: you could get them with duals
b: i think that's excellent. b: that's excellent because, a: yeah. a: but the thing is that it's twenty thousand dollars. a: actually, my, my wife and i are actually thinking, contemplating buying a new car in the next year and a half or so.
a: so we're actually been looking around and thinking about things. b: oh. a: we'd like to get like a a: oh, i don't know. a: what do you call it?
a: a dealer return type thing on a ninety-two and ninety-three or something like that you know. b: uh-huh. a: year old ninety-two or something like that. b: uh-huh. b: sure.
b: those are a: see if we, b: yeah, b: that, that would be a good deal to go with. a: and the other thing we're looking at is the saturns too.
b: okay. a: because they looked really nice. b: uh-huh. b: what do you, what do you looking for in, in those? b: what, what attracts you to the saturns?
b: or, or, of course, we've already talked, you know, b: the taurus is safe. b: but what kind of things are you looking for? a: well, the saturns you can get air bags in them. a: i don't think you can get dual side air bags.
b: uh-huh. a: but one of the, the two things that i'm really, a: the, the i'd say the most important thing is a car that's not going to fall apart. that doesn't have problems. b: uh-huh. a: you set down.
a: you look at consumer reports. a: we've been pouring over consumer reports a: and you just get so depressed for the u s auto makers when you do that. b: yeah. a: because you see the reliability and the types of problems they have
a: and, and the two cars that apparently are close to that. that actually have high reliability, the taurus is one of the highest u s cars. b: uh-huh. a: and the other one is, are the saturns. b: uh-huh. a: so those two things.
a: and then, you know, we kind of want a four door. b: okay a: okay. a: what is your, uh, community, uh, currently doing with regard to recycling? b: uh, basically, they're just, uh, having various recycling, uh, bins, uh, located for, uh, trash pickup.
a: uh-huh a: well that's more than we have up here in massachusetts. a: some, some local communities are very active in that, uh, in that respect a: and they do have bins set up. a: but i live in a, a metropolitan area
a: and, uh, they're not, uh, too inclined to do something as aggressive as that b: well, here they and, b: uh, live in an apartment complex. a: uh-huh. b: and they only have one set of recycling bins, one or two sets as opposed to a set at each of the dumpsters.
b: so a lot of the people who live up front don't bother to recycle because, you know, it's too far to carry the stuff to the other bins. a: i, i know a lot, i think a lot of, uh, the, the issues with regard to recycling are that, uh, people have to be motivated to do, to do something like that because it does take extra effort. a: whether a: and, and i think that, and i know massachusetts has, a: a bottle bill was passed
a: and we have had a bottle bill for quite a few years now, a: and the majority of the incentive in recycling bottles probably, believe it or not, is just to get the extra nickel at the, uh, the store and not, uh, a: that's the majority of people that i know of anyways. a: where people aren't really, you know, eco conscious. it's just the fact that it's something they have to do. a: and i'm not going to throw a bottle away,
a: it's like throwing a nickel away. a: that type of thing. b: right. b: they, here they're trying to push through a bill a: but, uh, people need to be more conscious of it.
b: and a lot of people are against it. b: and it's going to create a lot more work for the, uh, the stores that sell, you know, sodas and stuff. b: because they want to implement a refund on cans and on plastic bottles and everything. a: yeah a: it didn't, it, it took awhile for that bill to be passed up here as far as recycling bottles and cans.
a: uh, and, and matter of fact, i think it took like three tries for it to go through. a: but, and it's been pretty successful a: and people notice it as far as, uh, highways being, uh, you know, a: people would have a drink of soda, a: instead of throwing out the window, they, they keep the bottle
a: so it's, it's been a ecologically sound policy and, you know, as, as far as recycling your bottles in terms of trash and so forth. a: but more importantly, it's recycling reusable materials back into, uh, manufacturing. a: and that's the big thing, i think, that they try to promote. b: right. b: i think here if they, uh, instead of just, you know, requiring that you put, put out the trash and stuff, if they could get some kind of rebate, those people who do put the stuff out, uh, you know, and separate it, have lower collection fee or something may encourage people to separate.
a: yeah, a: that's a good idea. a: yeah. a: there definitely has to be a motivation factor a: and i know that, at where i work,
a: i work for a defense contractor. a: and there's a big push on for recycling, uh, paper materials, you know, computer output paper and also to decrease the amount of, uh, styrofoam usage because of the, uh, the process involved in styrofoam and, and the whole eco issue and that. a: and, and they're very proactive a: and, uh, matter of fact, they give you discounts if you use, uh, china wear rather than, uh, styrofoam stuff, a: so. so, it's incentives like that that get people people more conscious of it.
a: i think that's, that's what they need to do. be more like that. b: uh, i know, uh, i believe it was last year that they actually collected the old phone books. b: uh, usually have them come from you know, projects to collect old ones. b: usually just get dumped out with the trash. b: and phone books are a large volume of annual trash.
a: yeah. a: they, they just, a: matter of fact, that, that reminded me of an article i saw in the a: the local schools, you could send your phone book to your, uh, to, with your kid to school a: and what they'll do is they'll recycle it.
a: because there was an article or a story done awhile ago that, uh, trash, uh, the telephone books are the type of thing that don't break down over a long period of time. a: a guy went to a a landfill, dug down five feet and, and pulled up a phone book from like nineteen sixty a: because they don't, they don't degrade over such a period of time. b: well, part of the problem with recycling them in the past has been the covers are made with a clay based paper. a: yeah.
b: they contain the glue and stuff b: and they used to have to take out all the, uh, pages and then cut the spine off to be able to recycle them. a: yeah. b: now i think they've come up with some way of, uh, pulling the glue out. a: yeah.
a: okay a: uh, let's see. a: how about, uh, let's see, about ten years ago, a: uh, what do you think was different ten years ago from now? b: well, i would say as, far as social changes go, uh, i think families were more together.
b: they, they did more things together. a: uh-huh b: uh, they ate dinner at the table together. b: uh, the parents usually took out time, uh, you know, more time than they do now to come with the children and just spend the day doing a family activity. a: uh-huh.
b: uh, although i'm not a mother, i, i still think that, uh, a lot has changed since ten years ago. b: uh, what do you think about that? a: we, a: well, uh, actually ten years from today seems rather short. b: yeah.
a: uh, but i do agree that, uh, generally it's, society has sort of, uh, let's see, rushed everything ahead. b: uh-huh. a: and, uh, i don't know, a: it leaves, leaves a lot of time out for family and things like that. a: in other words, they just prioritize their lives differently.
a: but i think that has a lot to do with economic situation. b: yes. b: what about like as far as, uh, social changes in the individual? b: do you think that the individual has as much time as they did, let's say, ten, twenty years ago? a: uh,
a: um. it depends. a: uh, it's hard to say because i think people were busy ten twenty years ago too. b: uh-huh. a: uh, i just b: well, how, how old are you?
a: i'm twenty-eight. b: twenty-eight. b: okay, b: i'm twenty-three. a: yeah.
b: so there's maybe a five year gap between us. a: yeah. b: so, uh. a: i just, i think that things were a bit, were, have been busy all along. a: it's just a matter where priorities are, at placed. and that, uh, usually as far as families are concerned, there used to be just one person working and usually the other parent was home.
b: huh b: yes. b: uh-huh. a: and now, uh, it's pretty much an economic necessity of, for most, in most places for both parents to work. b: do you think it's an economic necessity
b: or do you think that we're, we're, uh, all trying to keep up with a certain standard of living? a: i think that's part of it too. a: but i do think, b: i mean do you think, people really need two cars and a house in the suburbs or, a: no,
a: no. a: i don't. a: no, a: i don't think that. a: but then there are a lot of people that, that don't have that. but, that really do need to work.
b: uh-huh. b: uh-huh. a: i think maybe those people that really do need to work, both parents, just to survive. a: and then there, is, is that other group that is working to maintain a standard of living that, uh, they think is, is surviving which is really more luxuries. b: yeah.
b: uh-huh. b: okay. b: uh-huh. a: uh, but i i tend to think that it's less those people that have the two cars and everything than it is the group that is just trying to survive. b: so you think it's,
b: which group are you saying is the one trying? a: i'm saying that the, uh, the group that is just trying to survive from day to day, where both parents are working is more of the majority than the, than the people that have the higher standard of living. b: uh-huh. a: because if you look at economics across this country and statistics on who has the money and who the decreasing, uh, middle class in this country i think that that's, in my opinion, the case. b: uh-huh.
b: okay. a: so. a: i mean i have met people that, uh, both that, that just want to maintain a, the standard of living and those that, that really need the job. b: okay. b: and then, sometimes i, i often, uh, find that maybe there's so many different things available to us. a microwave, a v c r, a answering machine a, you know, a special, a dishwasher, uh, a refrigerator and some of those items, um, for the, for the, uh,
a: uh-huh. b: well i guess we're sticking more to social changes b: but, uh people want all of that a: uh-huh. b: and not all of those are necessities.
a: right b: so they're trying to, b: it has become a necessity a: okay. b: i say they, uh,
b: probably the best things to do is, is tie them with a rope and throw them in the water b: they they're innocent right. a: i see. a: a a good, a good southern solution. b: yeah.
b: uh, so, uh, how do you, how do you feel? b: that's, of course, being facetious b: but a: uh-huh. a: you'd have to say that.
a: uh, i don't know. a: the, the things they asked to talk about were whether the, uh, whether the judge should be the one that does the, uh, sentencing. b: uh-huh. a: and seems to me that that's, i think that's the way it's done now. a: uh, at least, my understanding of the law which isn't very good.
b: uh-huh. a: uh, it seems to me that the judge does it a: and i, i think that's probably all right in that they, you know, maybe know what the, the norm is for a particular thing. b: uh-huh. b: and, i guess, also what the system will absorb
a: right. b: probably more tuned in to that. b: possibly though on, uh, capital cases like maybe the death penalty a: uh-huh. b: uh, i'm kind of undecided on that whether the judge should have the sole,
b: i mean he could have like a personal prejudice. b: you know, judges are people like everybody else even though they're, they're supposed to be impartial a: that's right. b: but maybe, uh, a: and i think that may, i, that may be an exception as well.
a: because i think that, a: doesn't the jury decide on the death penalty rather than, than the judge? b: i, i think that's, i think that's the way it is. a: yeah. b: uh, whether they, they decide whether or not they, uh, the accused or whatever would get the, uh, get the death penalty.
b: do they have a death penalty in california? a: yes. a: in fact, they're going to execute somebody at the end of this month. b: yeah. b: uh-huh.
a: and, uh, there's a big uproar going on right now. uh b: yeah. a: the, uh, governor, you know, has been trying to decide whether he's going to commute it or not. b: uh-huh. a: you know, it's someone who had, uh, killed two teenage boys here in san diego as a matter of fact.
b: yeah. b: i, b: something like that, i've got no problem with it. uh a: yeah. b: i guess the way i think about it is not, it shouldn't necessarily be thought of as revenge.
b: it's just like if you've got like a dog that's running wild and biting people a: uh-huh. b: put it to sleep, you know. b: just get it out, you know, b: it's not able to fit in, you know
a: something inexpensive. b: yeah. b: yeah, b: exactly b: uh, i guess, kind of the way i think about it also, is they just,
b: if somebody gets the death penalty, they're, they're judged guilty, b: they got the death penalty, b: they should have one year and one appeal. cover all their bases with one appeal b: and if not, you know, don't, don't let them sit up there on death row for, you know, fifteen years. a: yeah.
a: i think this particular case has been like ten or fifteen years. b: uh-huh. b: yeah, b: that, a: but i guess there have been several cases where people have been executed by mistake
a: and you'd hate to be one of those. b: yeah. b: oh, i'm sure b: yeah. a: the other thing they asked about was whether uh, uh, the verdict should be required to be unanimous. which, again, i think is the way it is now. that all the, all verdicts,
b: uh-huh. a: well maybe not. a: i don't know. a: at least in capital cases i'd think they'd have to be unanimous. b: i believe it is in capital.
b: i think in like, uh, lesser cases it's like ten out of twelve or five out of six, whatever how ever many is on, sitting on a jury. a: uh-huh. b: i i believe that's the way it is. b: but i'm pretty sure you're correct on capital cases. uh a: yeah.
a: the paper here tonight had a thing about the noriega trial. and that there's one juror that is, is, uh, different than the other eleven. b: uh-huh. b: yeah. a: and, uh, they've only deliberated four hours or, something a: and they say they're hopelessly deadlocked.
b: oh, no a: the judge told them they weren't hopelessly deadlocked yet b: i'm telling you, go one way or the other. b: that, that's probably an expensive trial. a: yeah.
a: six months so far they said. b: yeah. b: probably. a: so. b: yeah.
b: probably. b: you know, i'm not sure there's a number. b: it's probably like thirty, forty thousand dollars a day you know, worth of all the free for all. a: maybe they could go with a, with a nine hundred number and have people dial in and give their, uh, vote. b: yeah
b: yeah, b: that's, that's been so long i've practically forgot who noriega was, you know. a: right. b: that has been going on b: my, uh, cousin is a f b i agent down in miami.
a: oh really? b: yeah. b: so she follows that stuff pretty closely. b: but, uh, a: that's interesting.
b: yeah, b: she's not involved in that, that case. b: but she does, a: well have you ever served on a jury? b: no
b: i haven't. b: i never have. b: my wife has b: but i, i haven't. a: uh-huh.
a: i got called a: but i, uh, never, uh, got selected for a jury b: uh-huh. a: i sat for ten days in a court room while they went through the selection process, b: uh-huh.
a: and they had some guy that was, uh, defending himself. b: uh-huh. b: bye to someone speaking to b: so we're, uh, our discussion's about, uh, the care of the elderly? a: that's right,
a: that's right. a: you know, what, what, uh, what do you think is important? a: if you were, a: uh, i don't know how, how old you are, a: but if you had, if you had, uh, parents say or, or, or grandparents, whatever it is, uh, who were ready, who, who you thought might benefit from a nursing home, what do you think you would look for?
b: uh, well i, actually my dad's, my dad's almost ninety b: and he lives by himself a: huh. b: and he's in good shape. a: yeah.
b: uh, but, uh, some friends of mine have, uh, gone through this. b: i think i'd look for a home where they got a lot of attention and, uh, where they did some things to try to keep them, um, mentally alive. and where there was, uh, caring and compassionate, where there were caring and compassionate people, uh, operating it. a: yeah. b: do you have any experience with this yourself? a: huh.
a: well my, uh, uh, my wife's grandmother is in a nursing home in, uh, minnesota b: uh-huh. a: and we go there, uh, once a year. a: we see, we tend to see her there cause we're in boston a: so we're pretty far away.
a: when we visit minnesota though we go to see her. b: uh-huh. a: and it seems, uh, a: i mean the, the environment there, i don't know too much about it a: but it, it seems nice enough.
a: uh, it, it's hard, a: at least half of the residents i would say are not, not mentally sound. a: so it's hard to tell how much of that rubs off on those who are struggling to to retain, uh, clarity, say, uh, know b: from the lack of stimulation, you mean. a: yeah.
a: well i, i i don't know. a: we, we also, my wife and i, uh, uh, volunteer to go to a, uh, nursing home that's just a mile from our house. a: we, uh, she goes more often than i. a: we used to go once a month, once every two months to visit some of the patients there. a: and we'd take, we have a two year old son
a: and so we, sometimes we'd take him with us. a: and, uh, there i would say it's the same thing. a: it's, it's a nice, uh, relatively nice environment a: but again, um, it must be depressing for the people who, who are, who are just essentially not able to take care of themselves in their own house but, but, certainly, uh, certainly have are, have retained all of their, uh, mental skills and so on. a: it's, must be depressing to, to walk, walk the halls and see, and see all these other people who really don't know where they are.
b: do you think that in the case of the one that you've actually had some experience with, that the people who operate it seem to have, what you'd perceive of as genuine concern? a: i think, yeah, a: i think they're relatively respectful. yeah and, and concerned that, in as much as they can be. a: i, i think sometimes, you know, i've noticed, uh, people asking for, uh, some of the patients asking for things, uh, just repetitively and, but things that are not reasonable, b: uh-huh.
a: and so at some level the, the, the, uh, b: yeah. a: i'm sure that the, that the, uh, the staff learn what's normal for this person a: and so it looks to me like maybe their not catering to this person's needs is really because this person is just, you know, is just in a state where they don't really need what they think they need, you know. b: yeah.
b: it, it's possible, b: i was thinking also that there'd be, there could be a fair burn out factor um, in just having to respond to people's needs where the needs are sometimes, depending on the person, not going to be what we would perceive of as rational need. a: oh, yeah. a: yeah. a: i'll tell you one thing though that'll, that, that i, i saw that was really nice.
a: we saw a husband and wife, a: we used to see a husband and wife in there, uh, together a: and they were in the same room which not all husband and wives were a: but these two were. b: uh-huh.
a: and when you walked into their room, they had brought all their furniture from their house b: uh-huh. b: so it gives them a sense of identity. a: and so, a: yeah,
a: you walked in there a: and it didn't look like, uh, you know, how, you, you walk into some rooms a: and there's, it's completely generic. a: there's nothing, maybe a picture or two that belongs to that person a: and that's it.
a: but this room, on the other hand, you know, they got rid of all of the sort of standard issue beds and dressers and this and that a: and they had all their stuff from their house a: and it looked like, uh, it must have been, a: it was nicer to walk in there and to talk to them a: and it must also give them a sense of, uh, uh, security and, and, uh, and, and, you know, uh,
b: yeah, b: i, i think part of what you're saying matches what i have read. b: i used to initially think that the only people who went into such residences were people who, uh, were adequately deficient in their abilities, uh physical or mental, that they couldn't take care of themselves. a: yeah. b: but i also know a couple of people whose parents have gone into such things because i think they provide, um, a lot of social activities.
a: huh. a: yeah. b: uh, the, one of my friend's parents who went in because she had largely lost her abilities b: and she was in there for awhile when they were away on vacation. b: uh, and,
a: huh. a: temporary. a: i, a: that, that's, that's new to me. a: i,
b: well i think it, i think it was sort of on the grounds that they were considering whether she would live there b: and i feel like, the whole vocabulary of this is very loaded if you think of words like, like put her in there. a: right, a: right. b: and there, there's so much,
a: okay. a: uh, so your, you, i guess you're probably in the same, uh, same situation uh, we're in. a: we're kind of past having to provide child care. a: our, our kids are grown up. a: we don't have any grandchildren yet.
a: but, uh, uh, they're, b: uh-huh. b: how old are your children? a: uh, one's twenty-six a: and the other is, uh, twenty, twenty-one.
b: uh-huh a: so they're, uh, uh, they're, they're getting there. b: well, they're going to be getting there. a: you know, there's no no, no prospects right away for anything to happen. b: yeah.