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A year later I asked my mother if I could have them, because I'd like to keep them all the years of my life... | en-193001.png | |
She had thrown them away. | en-193002.png | |
(Laughter) That's my mother. (Laughter) | en-193003.png | |
The best way I can sum it up in more recent times is β this is also more recent times β a number of years ago, when they started the Hall of Fame to which you referred. | en-193004.png | |
It was a Sunday morning, when I got a call from the fellow who ran the TV Academy of Arts & Sciences. | en-193005.png | |
He was calling me to tell me they had met all day yesterday and he was confidentially telling me they were going to start a hall of fame and these were the inductees. | en-193006.png | |
I started to say " Richard Nixon, " because Richard Nixon β EH: I don't think he was on their list. | en-193007.png | |
NL: William Paley, who started CBS, David Sarnoff, who started NBC, Edward R. Murrow, the greatest of the foreign correspondents, Paddy Chayefsky β I think the best writer that ever came out of television β Milton Berle, Lucille Ball and me. | en-193008.png | |
EH: Not bad. | en-193009.png | |
NL: I call my mother immediately in Hartford, Connecticut. | en-193010.png | |
" Mom, this is what's happened, they're starting a hall of fame. " I tell her the list of names and me, and she says, "Listen, if that's what they want to do, who am I to say?" | en-193011.png | |
(Laughter) (Applause) That's my Ma. | en-193012.png | |
I think it earns that kind of a laugh because everybody has a piece of that mother. | en-193013.png | |
(Laughter) EH: And the sitcom Jewish mother is born, right there. | en-193014.png | |
So your father also played a large role in your life, mostly by his absence. | en-193015.png | |
NL: Yeah. | en-193016.png | |
EH: Tell us what happened when you were nine years old. | en-193017.png | |
And he went. | en-193018.png | |
It turns out he was picking up some fake bonds, which he was flying across the country to sell. | en-193019.png | |
But the fact that he was going to Oklahoma in a plane, and he was going to bring me back a 10-gallon hat, just like Ken Maynard, my favorite cowboy wore. | en-193020.png | |
You know, this was a few years after Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic. | en-193021.png | |
I mean, it was exotic that my father was going there. | en-193022.png | |
But when he came back, they arrested him as he got off the plane. | en-193023.png | |
That night newspapers were all over the house, my father was with his hat in front of his face, manacled to a detective. | en-193024.png | |
And my mother was selling the furniture, because we were leaving β she didn't want to stay in that state of shame, in Chelsea, Massachusetts. | en-193025.png | |
And selling the furniture β the house was loaded with people. | en-193026.png | |
And in the middle of all of that, some strange horse's ass put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Well, you're the man of the house now." | en-193027.png | |
I'm crying, and this asshole says, " You're the man of the house now. " And I think that was the moment I began to understand the foolishness of the human condition. | en-193028.png | |
So... | en-193029.png | |
it took a lot of years to look back at it and feel it was a benefit. | en-193030.png | |
But β EH: It's interesting you call it a benefit. | en-193031.png | |
NL: Benefit in that it gave me that springboard. | en-193032.png | |
I mean that I could think how foolish it was to say to this crying nine-year-old boy, "You're the man of the house now." | en-193033.png | |
And then I was crying, and then he said, "And men of the house don't cry." | en-193034.png | |
And I... | en-193035.png | |
(Laughter) So... | en-193036.png | |
I look back, and I think that's when I learned the foolishness of the human condition, and it's been that gift that I've used. | en-193037.png | |
EH: So you have a father who's absent, you have a mother for whom apparently nothing is good enough. | en-193038.png | |
Do you think that starting out as a kid who maybe never felt heard started you down a journey that ended with you being an adult with a weekly audience of 120 million people? | en-193039.png | |
NL: I love the way you put that question, because I guess I've spent my life wanting β if anything, wanting to be heard. | en-193040.png | |
I think β It's a simple answer, yes, that was what sparked β well, there were other things, too. | en-193041.png | |
When my father was away, I was fooling with a crystal radio set that we had made together, and I caught a signal that turned out to be Father Coughlin. | en-193042.png | |
(Laughter) Yeah, somebody laughed. (Laughter) | en-193043.png | |
But not funny, this was a horse's β another horse's ass β who was very vocal about hating the New Deal and Roosevelt and Jews. | en-193044.png | |
The first time I ran into an understanding that there were people in this world that hated me because I was born to Jewish parents. | en-193045.png | |
And that had an enormous effect on my life. | en-193046.png | |
EH: So you had a childhood with little in the way of strong male role models, except for your grandfather. | en-193047.png | |
Tell us about him. | en-193048.png | |
NL: Oh, my grandfather. | en-193049.png | |
Well here's the way I always talked about that grandfather. | en-193050.png | |
There were parades, lots of parades when I was a kid. | en-193051.png | |
There were parades on Veteran's Day β there wasn't a President's Day. | en-193052.png | |
There was Abraham Lincoln's birthday, George Washington's birthday and Flag Day... | en-193053.png | |
And lots of little parades. | en-193054.png | |
My grandfather used to take me and we'd stand on the street corner, he'd hold my hand, and I'd look up and I'd see a tear running down his eye. | en-193055.png | |
And he meant a great deal to me. | en-193056.png | |
And he used to write presidents of the United States. | en-193057.png | |
Every letter started, "My dearest, darling Mr. President," and he'd tell him something wonderful about what he did. | en-193058.png | |
But I have shown them myself, going way back to Phil Donahue and others before him, literally dozens of interviews in which I told that story. | en-193059.png | |
This will be the second time I have said the whole story was a lie. | en-193060.png | |
The truth was my grandfather took me to parades, we had lots of those. | en-193061.png | |
The truth is a tear came down his eye. | en-193062.png | |
The truth is he would write an occasional letter, and I did pick up those little envelopes. | en-193063.png | |
But " My dearest darling Mr. President, " all the rest of it, is a story I borrowed from a good friend whose grandfather was that grandfather who wrote those letters. | en-193064.png | |
And, I mean, I stole Arthur Marshall's grandfather and made him my own. | en-193065.png | |
Always. | en-193066.png | |
When I started to write my memoir β "Even this β" How about that? | en-193067.png | |
"Even This I Get to Experience." | en-193068.png | |
When I started to write the memoir and I started to think about it, and then I β I β I did a reasonable amount of crying, and I realized how much I needed the father. | en-193069.png | |
So much so that I appropriated Arthur Marshall's grandfather. | en-193070.png | |
So much so, the word " father " β I have six kids by the way. | en-193071.png | |
My favorite role in life. | en-193072.png | |
It and husband to my wife Lyn. | en-193073.png | |
But I stole the man's identity because I needed the father. | en-193074.png | |
Now I've gone through a whole lot of shit and come out on the other side, and I forgive my father β the best thing I β the worst thing I β The word I'd like to use about him and think about him is β he was a rascal. | en-193075.png | |
The fact that he lied and stole and cheated and went to prison... | en-193076.png | |
I submerge that in the word " rascal. " EH: Well there's a saying that amateurs borrow and professionals steal. | en-193077.png | |
NL: I'm a pro. | en-193078.png | |
EH: You're a pro. | en-193079.png | |
(Laughter) And that quote is widely attributed to John Lennon, but it turns out he stole it from T.S. Eliot. | en-193080.png | |
So you're in good company. | en-193081.png | |
(Laughter) EH: I want to talk about your work. | en-193082.png | |
But have there ever been any stories about the impact of your work that surprised you? | en-193083.png | |
NL: Oh, god β surprised me and delighted me from head to toe. | en-193084.png | |
There was " An Evening with Norman Lear " within the last year that a group of hip-hop impresarios, performers and the Academy put together. | en-193085.png | |
The subtext of " An Evening with... " was: What do a 92-year-old Jew β then 92 β and the world of hip-hop have in common? | en-193086.png | |
Russell Simmons was among seven on the stage. | en-193087.png | |
And when he talked about the shows, he wasn't talking about the Hollywood, George Jefferson in " The Jeffersons, " or the show that was a number five show. | en-193088.png | |
He was talking about a simple thing that made a big β EH: Impact on him? | en-193089.png | |
NL: An impact on him β I was hesitating over the word, " change. " It's hard for me to imagine, you know, changing somebody's life, but that's the way he put it. | en-193090.png | |
He saw George Jefferson write a check on " The Jeffersons, " and he never knew that a black man could write a check. | en-193091.png | |
And he says it just impacted his life so β it changed his life. | en-193092.png | |
It could have been the dresser of the set who put the checkbook on the thing, and George had nothing to do while he was speaking, so he wrote it, I don't know. | en-193093.png | |
But β EH: So in addition to the long list I shared in the beginning, I should have also mentioned that you invented hip-hop. | en-193094.png | |
(Laughter) NL: Well... | en-193095.png | |
EH: I want to talk about β NL: Well, then do it. | en-193096.png | |
(Laughter) EH: You've lead a life of accomplishment, but you've also built a life of meaning. | en-193097.png | |
And all of us strive to do both of those things β not all of us manage to. | en-193098.png | |
But even those of us who do manage to accomplish both of those, very rarely do we figure out how to do them together. | en-193099.png | |
You managed to push culture forward through your art while also achieving world-beating commercial success. | en-193100.png |
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