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A year later I asked my mother if I could have them, because I'd like to keep them all the years of my life...
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She had thrown them away.
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(Laughter) That's my mother. (Laughter)
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The best way I can sum it up in more recent times is β€” this is also more recent times β€” a number of years ago, when they started the Hall of Fame to which you referred.
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It was a Sunday morning, when I got a call from the fellow who ran the TV Academy of Arts & Sciences.
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He was calling me to tell me they had met all day yesterday and he was confidentially telling me they were going to start a hall of fame and these were the inductees.
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I started to say " Richard Nixon, " because Richard Nixon β€” EH: I don't think he was on their list.
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NL: William Paley, who started CBS, David Sarnoff, who started NBC, Edward R. Murrow, the greatest of the foreign correspondents, Paddy Chayefsky β€” I think the best writer that ever came out of television β€” Milton Berle, Lucille Ball and me.
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EH: Not bad.
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NL: I call my mother immediately in Hartford, Connecticut.
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" Mom, this is what's happened, they're starting a hall of fame. " I tell her the list of names and me, and she says, "Listen, if that's what they want to do, who am I to say?"
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(Laughter) (Applause) That's my Ma.
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I think it earns that kind of a laugh because everybody has a piece of that mother.
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(Laughter) EH: And the sitcom Jewish mother is born, right there.
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So your father also played a large role in your life, mostly by his absence.
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NL: Yeah.
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EH: Tell us what happened when you were nine years old.
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And he went.
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It turns out he was picking up some fake bonds, which he was flying across the country to sell.
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But the fact that he was going to Oklahoma in a plane, and he was going to bring me back a 10-gallon hat, just like Ken Maynard, my favorite cowboy wore.
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You know, this was a few years after Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic.
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I mean, it was exotic that my father was going there.
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But when he came back, they arrested him as he got off the plane.
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That night newspapers were all over the house, my father was with his hat in front of his face, manacled to a detective.
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And my mother was selling the furniture, because we were leaving β€” she didn't want to stay in that state of shame, in Chelsea, Massachusetts.
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And selling the furniture β€” the house was loaded with people.
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And in the middle of all of that, some strange horse's ass put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Well, you're the man of the house now."
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I'm crying, and this asshole says, " You're the man of the house now. " And I think that was the moment I began to understand the foolishness of the human condition.
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So...
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it took a lot of years to look back at it and feel it was a benefit.
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But β€” EH: It's interesting you call it a benefit.
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NL: Benefit in that it gave me that springboard.
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I mean that I could think how foolish it was to say to this crying nine-year-old boy, "You're the man of the house now."
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And then I was crying, and then he said, "And men of the house don't cry."
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And I...
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(Laughter) So...
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I look back, and I think that's when I learned the foolishness of the human condition, and it's been that gift that I've used.
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EH: So you have a father who's absent, you have a mother for whom apparently nothing is good enough.
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Do you think that starting out as a kid who maybe never felt heard started you down a journey that ended with you being an adult with a weekly audience of 120 million people?
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NL: I love the way you put that question, because I guess I've spent my life wanting β€” if anything, wanting to be heard.
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I think β€” It's a simple answer, yes, that was what sparked β€” well, there were other things, too.
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When my father was away, I was fooling with a crystal radio set that we had made together, and I caught a signal that turned out to be Father Coughlin.
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(Laughter) Yeah, somebody laughed. (Laughter)
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But not funny, this was a horse's β€” another horse's ass β€” who was very vocal about hating the New Deal and Roosevelt and Jews.
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The first time I ran into an understanding that there were people in this world that hated me because I was born to Jewish parents.
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And that had an enormous effect on my life.
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EH: So you had a childhood with little in the way of strong male role models, except for your grandfather.
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Tell us about him.
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NL: Oh, my grandfather.
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Well here's the way I always talked about that grandfather.
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There were parades, lots of parades when I was a kid.
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There were parades on Veteran's Day β€” there wasn't a President's Day.
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There was Abraham Lincoln's birthday, George Washington's birthday and Flag Day...
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And lots of little parades.
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My grandfather used to take me and we'd stand on the street corner, he'd hold my hand, and I'd look up and I'd see a tear running down his eye.
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And he meant a great deal to me.
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And he used to write presidents of the United States.
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Every letter started, "My dearest, darling Mr. President," and he'd tell him something wonderful about what he did.
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But I have shown them myself, going way back to Phil Donahue and others before him, literally dozens of interviews in which I told that story.
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This will be the second time I have said the whole story was a lie.
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The truth was my grandfather took me to parades, we had lots of those.
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The truth is a tear came down his eye.
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The truth is he would write an occasional letter, and I did pick up those little envelopes.
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But " My dearest darling Mr. President, " all the rest of it, is a story I borrowed from a good friend whose grandfather was that grandfather who wrote those letters.
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And, I mean, I stole Arthur Marshall's grandfather and made him my own.
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Always.
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When I started to write my memoir β€” "Even this β€”" How about that?
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"Even This I Get to Experience."
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When I started to write the memoir and I started to think about it, and then I β€” I β€” I did a reasonable amount of crying, and I realized how much I needed the father.
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So much so that I appropriated Arthur Marshall's grandfather.
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So much so, the word " father " β€” I have six kids by the way.
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My favorite role in life.
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It and husband to my wife Lyn.
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But I stole the man's identity because I needed the father.
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Now I've gone through a whole lot of shit and come out on the other side, and I forgive my father β€” the best thing I β€” the worst thing I β€” The word I'd like to use about him and think about him is β€” he was a rascal.
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The fact that he lied and stole and cheated and went to prison...
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I submerge that in the word " rascal. " EH: Well there's a saying that amateurs borrow and professionals steal.
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NL: I'm a pro.
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EH: You're a pro.
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(Laughter) And that quote is widely attributed to John Lennon, but it turns out he stole it from T.S. Eliot.
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So you're in good company.
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(Laughter) EH: I want to talk about your work.
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But have there ever been any stories about the impact of your work that surprised you?
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NL: Oh, god β€” surprised me and delighted me from head to toe.
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There was " An Evening with Norman Lear " within the last year that a group of hip-hop impresarios, performers and the Academy put together.
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The subtext of " An Evening with... " was: What do a 92-year-old Jew β€” then 92 β€” and the world of hip-hop have in common?
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Russell Simmons was among seven on the stage.
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And when he talked about the shows, he wasn't talking about the Hollywood, George Jefferson in " The Jeffersons, " or the show that was a number five show.
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He was talking about a simple thing that made a big β€” EH: Impact on him?
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NL: An impact on him β€” I was hesitating over the word, " change. " It's hard for me to imagine, you know, changing somebody's life, but that's the way he put it.
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He saw George Jefferson write a check on " The Jeffersons, " and he never knew that a black man could write a check.
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And he says it just impacted his life so β€” it changed his life.
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It could have been the dresser of the set who put the checkbook on the thing, and George had nothing to do while he was speaking, so he wrote it, I don't know.
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But β€” EH: So in addition to the long list I shared in the beginning, I should have also mentioned that you invented hip-hop.
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(Laughter) NL: Well...
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EH: I want to talk about β€” NL: Well, then do it.
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(Laughter) EH: You've lead a life of accomplishment, but you've also built a life of meaning.
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And all of us strive to do both of those things β€” not all of us manage to.
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But even those of us who do manage to accomplish both of those, very rarely do we figure out how to do them together.
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You managed to push culture forward through your art while also achieving world-beating commercial success.
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